Well, I guess I will be considered offensive. I am very proud of the confederate ancestors I have done some research on.
It Is Ok To Offend A Large Part Of The Southern White Population But Curse You If you Offend Blacks
- Thread starter Jep
- Start date
Not really ... Most of us have to much work to do already. This sort of thing endures we have enough to do for years to come
WTF are you talking about? If this is some kinda secret code....we' ain't gettin it
Thanks Rolo! I found my self rereading that about 5 times to see if I was missing something. We are talking about small block Fords and he is talking about eco friendly pet resorts. I really try to see things from their point of view, but I just have to many logical thoughts in my head to see their way.
also, notice how the tone has moved from offending to Treasonous.!
I don't know who writes the script for the cats, but I ain't biting...
And leaving slaves behind to the Confederate army.....so much for the freeing the slaves BS argument.
Apparently you are unaware that the Thirteenth Amendment to the US Constitution abolished slavery in the United States. So much for your uninformed "BS argument". The Thirteenth Amendment would not have been possible without the United States Army, Navy, and Marine Corps to force the confederates to submit meekly.
It was about economics, they wanted the south back in the Union, if it were about Slavery they could have liberated the slaves, and occupied the South....but what did Honest Abe do....he saluted the South with the Marine band playing Dixie....Oh, why did they wait until the end of the war? oh and meekly? Despite being outnumbered about 4-1 they killed more Union soldiers almost 2-1. And while mostly on the attack the first three years....also, every able bodied man in the South fought....the north....About 40% sat it out....chicken shits I suppose
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WRONG ONCE AGAIN. It was about slavery. The United States government did liberate the slaves and occupied the south with the US Army for more than ten years. Not every able bodied man in the south fought...see the attached link for the actual confederate exemption law of 1862 which exempted most professionals and large slaveowners---making it a "rich man's fight and a poor man's war".http://docsouth.unc.edu/true/csa1863/csa1863.html
Yep. I love teeing off on this Rolo character. He has the perfect combination of ignorance and arrogance.
Funny how few people can't comprehend that the US was created by colonials tired of an oppressive governments laws that did not have their best interest at heart when they seceded from the UK. The civil war could have been avoided but the Union was too hard ball on issues that were necessary for the south to compete with the north. Neither side cared about human rights.
LOL - the United States government was too "hard ball" on what issue in particular that was necessary for the south to compete with the north? Could that "issue" possibly be slavery? Why not just come out and say it?
You are very wrong when you say that neither side cared about human rights. You can read many primary source accounts of northern men and women who wrote about their moral disgust when they witnessed slave catchers enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 in northern cities.
If neither side cared about human rights, how do you account for the enormous popularity of Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin? It was the best-selling novel of the 19th century, and, after the Bible, the second-best selling book of the 1800s. The theme of the book was the evil and immorality of slavery.
Yankees have always liked keep their racism hush-hush. You're delusional if you actually believe northerners gave a rip about non-whites. The fact is that the rise and fall of slavery - without government intervention - directly correlates to the timeline of the industrial revolution. That's why slavery more or less died out in Europe before it would have (on its own accord) in the U.S.
WRONG AGAIN. I know northerners gave a rip about non-whites, and unlike you, I can prove my assertions. From the Acts of the State of Ohio, 1857: An Act To Prevent Kidnapping. https://books.google.com/books?id=S...e&q=An Act to prevent Kidnapping 1857&f=false
From the state of Connecticut: An Act For the Defense of Liberty in this State, 1854: https://books.google.com/books?id=b... the Defense of Liberty in this State&f=false
From Public Laws of the State of Maine: An Act Further To Protect Personal Liberty, 1855: https://books.google.com/books?id=b...QHz-8i0DQ&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
From Laws of the State of New Hampshire: An Act to secure freedom and the rights of citizenship to persons in this State, 1857: https://books.google.com/books?id=l...citizenship to persons in this State.&f=false
From Acts of the State of Ohio, 1857: An Act to Prevent Slaveholding and Kidnapping in Ohio: https://books.google.com/books?id=S...QHU7YDVDQ&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
From the Revised Statutes of the State of Wisconsin: Of The Writ of Habeus Corpus Relative To Fugitive Slaves: https://books.google.com/books?id=M...QGv0onlDQ&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
Some delusion, huh? If white northerners would go to the trouble of passing laws expressly to protect the life and liberty of African-Americans, they apparently did give a rip about them.
You really shouldn't try a professional historian when you don't know what you are talking about. What you don't know about history could just about fill the Grand Canyon.
Interesting...we pass plenty of laws now as a means of political posturing with zero interest in actually following through with the publicized intent. Besides, when was the last time a piece of legislation was passed that actually represented the beliefs of the majority? I guess your examples above represent why blacks had it so good and easy in the north...
Whitepug,
If you truly are a historian then you know you are altering facts.
Remember the Irish Riots? Remember Union soldiers rioting when
it was suggested they were fighting to free Africans? Please tell
me you remember that the TRULY despicable person in Uncle Toms Cabin was a Northerner, and remember De Tocqueville's observation that "race prejudice seems stronger in those states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists, and nowhere is it more intolerant than in those states where slavery was never known."
Don't disregard history (as a self-described historian) in an attempt to re-write it
to win a simple argument about this. Both sides used African slaves as a pawn in a vicious power struggle and the truth was there was a lot of red paint here.
Plenty to go around.
You're no historian if you only regard the facts you agree with.
If you truly are a historian then you know you are altering facts.
Remember the Irish Riots? Remember Union soldiers rioting when
it was suggested they were fighting to free Africans? Please tell
me you remember that the TRULY despicable person in Uncle Toms Cabin was a Northerner, and remember De Tocqueville's observation that "race prejudice seems stronger in those states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists, and nowhere is it more intolerant than in those states where slavery was never known."
Don't disregard history (as a self-described historian) in an attempt to re-write it
to win a simple argument about this. Both sides used African slaves as a pawn in a vicious power struggle and the truth was there was a lot of red paint here.
Plenty to go around.
You're no historian if you only regard the facts you agree with.
LOL u think you're teeing off on me? That's priceless ya goofy dipshit. You know what they say, those who can do....those who can't teach. God help us
You moron. LOL what does any of that have to do with the war. Damn bro you're just dumb. Those STATES had the RIGHT to CHOOSE.
It doesn't take a historian or political science major to know that our biggest problem is the "team sports politics" being played by our citizens. I've been spending the last hour reading the threads from yesterday and today.
My take away is that there are some pretty smart and hard working people on this forum with differing opinions. Unfortunately, just like with most political discussion in this country, the heels get dug in so firmly that it's always "my side is right, your side is wrong about EVERYTHING".
The Civil War was fought over states rights and economics. Unfortunately, the people who keep posting that here, on the Internet in general, and in any discussion going on around the country, don't want to acknowledge that slavery was the largest specific issue involving both states rights and economics. We can throw out revisionist history all day long but until someone can produce an authentic original copy of the Constitution of the Confederate States that does not mention slavery once and slaves nine times, I think it's going to be hard to suggest that the CSA was trying to get rid of slavery and that it wasn't a central reason for secession.
Then there are the several secession declarations from Confederate states that also mention slavery way more than the Confederate Constitution itself. Georgia's secession mentions "slave" 35 times! Georgia's secession even clearly outlines that Lincoln's Republican party was considered anti-slavery and that the central conflict dating back to the independence of Texas from Mexico and the results of the Mexican-American war presenting all of this new western territory to bring into the fold, was the debate over the expansion of slavery.
It seems to me that neither the USA or the CSA was against slavery for moral reasons. So the conservative posters are right that the Union didn't give a squat about non-whites. The only issue here was that the Union recognized that to properly industrialize and grow the economy that slavery had to be phased out for strictly economic purposes especially with any new territory. Obviously the CSA wanted to spread slavery into these new territories as mentioned in the Confederate Constitution's clause covering potential new territories.
So yes, the Civil War was fought over states rights and economics but the primary driver of those themes was slavery.
What any of this has to do with southern pride, I have no idea. I know plenty of people, myself included, who are proud of being Southern without feeling like a Confederate flag needs to be flying all over the South to legitimize that sentiment. I mean in every war, all parties involved are fighting for something so what makes the Confederacy so special? Honoring your bloodline is one thing but I'm pretty much taken aback by people feeling that the Confederacy itself is where their history begins. It's almost insulting those ancestors who fought in the Civil War who were simply Americans before they were Confederates.
All of that said, I firmly believe in Stone Mountain Park staying as-is. I believe in Confederate cemeteries, parks, and landmarks remaining the historical markers that they are, flags and all. I don't believe a Confederate flag belongs in any prominent location within or around a government building like a courthouse or capital building. This is the United States of America. There is only 1 national flag and then there is the state flag of the state in question. That's it. We don't need our government buildings looking like the UN or a stock car with branding all over the place. Heck, the only exception I'd make is that any official flag from a state's history should be flown in a designated area of the state capital building like a museum display including any flag with Confederate symbols or influence. History should never be hidden or forgotten but that doesn't mean we have to be stuck in it. What we do today has nothing to do with the CSA.
I saw several of my friends on social media posting pics of the USA and Confederate flags yesterday then praising America. All I could do is SMH as these same people have been marginalizing the American flag by pointing out that hate groups have flown it too. I think this is an example of the childish sentiment that whitepug6 mentioned earlier. The Confederacy is dead, the USA is alive. Every citizen in this country is an American, no one is a Confederate. Everyone can raise the American flag and everyone can do their part in shaping America's future. No Confederate flag is equal to the USA flag.
Usually when you celebrate a birthday, you don't just celebrate the day of birth, you also celebrate the life of the individual or entity. With that in mind, the Confederacy is a huge chapter in the life of the USA. It is just as significant as the British mention. While declaring independence gave birth to this country, what emerged from the sibling rivalry is what hardened this country and put it in position to become an eventual super power. We have many highs and lows in our nation's history. It's not all rosy and we're not always going to be portrayed as heroes. We can't ask to drop all of the hyphens and special interest while asking for everyone to just be recognized as Americans then turn around and ask for special treatment by having the Confederacy recognized in an official capacity in Southern governments or telling people to "get over it". The previously mentioned Confederate historical markers, parks, and naming are more than enough recognition. We didn't go changing all of the British influenced names after 1776, so we shouldn't change any Confederate naming. That said, we also don't need to go forward promoting the Confederacy.
The whole "attack" on the Confederate flag by US corporations is a knee jerk reaction to South Carolina insisting on a Confederate battle flag flying at the state house. When South Carolina removed the flag from atop the state house in 2000, they shouldn't have relocated it to the Confederate Monument. That flag should have been put away and replaced with another Confederate flag at the monument.
The problem isn't recognizing the Confederacy from a historical perspective. The problem is that the battle flag in particular is by definition a threat to the USA and has been flown in rebellion to many progressive issues including anything to do with promoting civil rights in this country. It's very nature is antagonistic and an insult to the United States. It's like leaving your wife for a temporary fling with another woman then returning and professing your love for your wife while still talking about the other woman with much affection for the rest of your life each time you and your wife have a disagreement.
This is the United States of America. Love it or leave it.
My take away is that there are some pretty smart and hard working people on this forum with differing opinions. Unfortunately, just like with most political discussion in this country, the heels get dug in so firmly that it's always "my side is right, your side is wrong about EVERYTHING".
The Civil War was fought over states rights and economics. Unfortunately, the people who keep posting that here, on the Internet in general, and in any discussion going on around the country, don't want to acknowledge that slavery was the largest specific issue involving both states rights and economics. We can throw out revisionist history all day long but until someone can produce an authentic original copy of the Constitution of the Confederate States that does not mention slavery once and slaves nine times, I think it's going to be hard to suggest that the CSA was trying to get rid of slavery and that it wasn't a central reason for secession.
Then there are the several secession declarations from Confederate states that also mention slavery way more than the Confederate Constitution itself. Georgia's secession mentions "slave" 35 times! Georgia's secession even clearly outlines that Lincoln's Republican party was considered anti-slavery and that the central conflict dating back to the independence of Texas from Mexico and the results of the Mexican-American war presenting all of this new western territory to bring into the fold, was the debate over the expansion of slavery.
It seems to me that neither the USA or the CSA was against slavery for moral reasons. So the conservative posters are right that the Union didn't give a squat about non-whites. The only issue here was that the Union recognized that to properly industrialize and grow the economy that slavery had to be phased out for strictly economic purposes especially with any new territory. Obviously the CSA wanted to spread slavery into these new territories as mentioned in the Confederate Constitution's clause covering potential new territories.
So yes, the Civil War was fought over states rights and economics but the primary driver of those themes was slavery.
What any of this has to do with southern pride, I have no idea. I know plenty of people, myself included, who are proud of being Southern without feeling like a Confederate flag needs to be flying all over the South to legitimize that sentiment. I mean in every war, all parties involved are fighting for something so what makes the Confederacy so special? Honoring your bloodline is one thing but I'm pretty much taken aback by people feeling that the Confederacy itself is where their history begins. It's almost insulting those ancestors who fought in the Civil War who were simply Americans before they were Confederates.
All of that said, I firmly believe in Stone Mountain Park staying as-is. I believe in Confederate cemeteries, parks, and landmarks remaining the historical markers that they are, flags and all. I don't believe a Confederate flag belongs in any prominent location within or around a government building like a courthouse or capital building. This is the United States of America. There is only 1 national flag and then there is the state flag of the state in question. That's it. We don't need our government buildings looking like the UN or a stock car with branding all over the place. Heck, the only exception I'd make is that any official flag from a state's history should be flown in a designated area of the state capital building like a museum display including any flag with Confederate symbols or influence. History should never be hidden or forgotten but that doesn't mean we have to be stuck in it. What we do today has nothing to do with the CSA.
I saw several of my friends on social media posting pics of the USA and Confederate flags yesterday then praising America. All I could do is SMH as these same people have been marginalizing the American flag by pointing out that hate groups have flown it too. I think this is an example of the childish sentiment that whitepug6 mentioned earlier. The Confederacy is dead, the USA is alive. Every citizen in this country is an American, no one is a Confederate. Everyone can raise the American flag and everyone can do their part in shaping America's future. No Confederate flag is equal to the USA flag.
Usually when you celebrate a birthday, you don't just celebrate the day of birth, you also celebrate the life of the individual or entity. With that in mind, the Confederacy is a huge chapter in the life of the USA. It is just as significant as the British mention. While declaring independence gave birth to this country, what emerged from the sibling rivalry is what hardened this country and put it in position to become an eventual super power. We have many highs and lows in our nation's history. It's not all rosy and we're not always going to be portrayed as heroes. We can't ask to drop all of the hyphens and special interest while asking for everyone to just be recognized as Americans then turn around and ask for special treatment by having the Confederacy recognized in an official capacity in Southern governments or telling people to "get over it". The previously mentioned Confederate historical markers, parks, and naming are more than enough recognition. We didn't go changing all of the British influenced names after 1776, so we shouldn't change any Confederate naming. That said, we also don't need to go forward promoting the Confederacy.
The whole "attack" on the Confederate flag by US corporations is a knee jerk reaction to South Carolina insisting on a Confederate battle flag flying at the state house. When South Carolina removed the flag from atop the state house in 2000, they shouldn't have relocated it to the Confederate Monument. That flag should have been put away and replaced with another Confederate flag at the monument.
The problem isn't recognizing the Confederacy from a historical perspective. The problem is that the battle flag in particular is by definition a threat to the USA and has been flown in rebellion to many progressive issues including anything to do with promoting civil rights in this country. It's very nature is antagonistic and an insult to the United States. It's like leaving your wife for a temporary fling with another woman then returning and professing your love for your wife while still talking about the other woman with much affection for the rest of your life each time you and your wife have a disagreement.
This is the United States of America. Love it or leave it.
You need to grab two things. A History book and a dictionary. Damn you snot nose kids are in for a log tough life.....Its no wonder you love big government, you depend on it for a living (read fellow citizens)
Typical cheap shot from a non-professional. I'd like to see you get up in front of a class and deliver an impromptu 90-minute lecture on the Jacksonian Era. The difference between a professional like myself and you is that I can do that. You couldn't---not even in the fantasy world you live in.
Well hell from what i can tell from your postings its just a matter of making the shit up. Probably much easier when your BSing a bunch of snot nose no nothings.....But here you have some educated worldly ADULTS,,,you can't BS your way though here dipshit.
And pal, you wouldn't make it a half day in my shoes. LOL it would be fun to watch though
I don't know about that. I haven't worked a menial job since I was a teenager, but I'm sure I could do menial labor for a full day.
And here it is, gents, the elitist hypocrite shows his/her true colors
How am I elitist? I never said I wouldn't do menial labor. I just said that I hadn't done menial labor since I was a kid.
Oh nice, you may think you're above others, but honestly, you're truly at the bottom of the rung.....life looks very different outside the teachers lounge. dipshit
The war on "white" Americans is real. The struggle is real. Sad to see my family, and especially my sons, treated like "2nd class citizens". All I'm asking for...all I've ever asked for...is equality.
''racist'' this board knows a thing or a thousand about racism.
White people have been held down far too long in this racist country.
I have a dream that one day we'll get one of our own elected POTUS.
I know it's a long shot, but a Man needs hope.
