Can we talk about healthcare?

[donalsonville_dawg]

So, what would you guys fix about Obamacare? It seems to me there's several things that a lot of conservatives agree on:

1. Get rid of the individual/employer mandates.

2. Get rid of the regs requiring coverage for various things (like maternity care - make it optional). This will create lower cost, "catastrophic" type policies.

3. Roll back Medicaid expansion to create more customers for private insurance while providing tax credits for lower income, working Americans (more demand = lower costs).

What say you guys? How would you fix Obamacare?

 

[mitchelldawg]

Think you nailed it......

 

[mikul1]

It is not a right like freedom of speech? Explain why I should pay for your insurance? Simple question. And if I should pay what else for you should I pay for? Food clothing ,housing?

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

It is not a right like freedom of speech? Explain why I should pay for your insurance? Simple question. And if I should pay what else for you should I pay for? Food clothing ,housing?

You pay for other people's schools...police...fire...roads, etc. And, honestly, any time you buy insurance you don't use, you're paying for other people's health care. You're also paying for other people's retirement (social security) and their health care (Medicare/Medicaid) already.

But, honestly, that's not the point of my question. My question is how do you think Obamacare should be changed/how would you make it better?

 

[mikul1]

You pay for other people's schools...police...fire...roads, etc. And, honestly, any time you buy insurance you don't use, you're paying for other people's health care. You're also paying for other people's retirement (social security) and their health care (Medicare/Medicaid) already.

But, honestly, that's not the point of my question. My question is how do you think Obamacare should be changed/how would you make it better?

Schools ,police ,fire are payments that help me. Paying someone's insurance is not the same. Our insurance was changed for goverment control. I worked in hospitals for 45 years never had a poor person turned away when medical care wa needed. And if your plan ( berrycare ) is so good explain why the first thing your goverment officials did was exempt them self from any medical plan they passed.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Schools ,police ,fire are payments that help me. Paying someone's insurance is not the same. Our insurance was changed for goverment control. I worked in hospitals for 45 years never had a poor person turned away when medical care wa needed. And if your plan ( berrycare ) is so good explain why the first thing your goverment officials did was exempt them self from any medical plan they passed.

I didn't say it was my plan. It's not. I didn't vote for Obama. Not a fan.

But, to your point, you're actually wrong. Paying for someone else's insurance is why you don't have to pay a la carte for all your medical bills. I think you misunderstand how insurance works if you don't already think you're paying for someone else's insurance. You are. You also benefit from a healthy population (just as you benefit from police and fire and roads), so, again, you're incorrect there as well.

My question is literally what it is: what would you do to change the system? That's it. Do you have any thoughts on that exact topic or do you just want to make assumptions about people?

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

The point here is to have a constructive discussion on the issue. I would assume, @mikul1, that if you worked in the medical industry for as long as you did you would have some ideas on how to fix the system. So, what are your thoughts? That's the purpose of my question.

 

[mikul1]

The point here is to have a constructive discussion on the issue. I would assume, @mikul1, that if you worked in the medical industry for as long as you did you would have some ideas on how to fix the system. So, what are your thoughts? That's the purpose of my question.

Keep goverment out of it , that is simple. Making me have GYN coverage. That is your goverment in charge. Oberrycare was written by insurance companies and lobbyist. Explain why you want your goverment telling you what you have to buy? Before I have to fix it explain why I need it.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Keep goverment out of it , that is simple. Making me have GYN coverage. That is your goverment in charge. Oberrycare was written by insurance companies and lobbyist. Explain why you want your goverment telling you what you have to buy? Before I have to fix it explain why I need it.

So you would basically roll back the regulations that require all the various coverages, etc., such as maternity. Anything else?

 

[AgEngDawg]

So, what would you guys fix about Obamacare? It seems to me there's several things that a lot of conservatives agree on:

1. Get rid of the individual/employer mandates.

2. Get rid of the regs requiring coverage for various things (like maternity care - make it optional). This will create lower cost, "catastrophic" type policies.

3. Roll back Medicaid expansion to create more customers for private insurance while providing tax credits for lower income, working Americans (more demand = lower costs).

What say you guys? How would you fix Obamacare?

Throw the system away. The only way to fix this is for government to be the only entity providing healthcare. Provide free government run healthcare to everyone.

Take it out of the private sector and costs will plummett.

Set it up like the postal system.

There should by a post office style clinic in every community. Everywhere you have a post office, have a clinic.

That is the simplest and most direct solution.

 

[mikul1]

So you would basically roll back the regulations that require all the various coverages, etc., such as maternity. Anything else?

I havebeen in many cardiac bypass cases where the patient had no home or mailing address.. Treatment of care never varied. Our ER cost went through the roof afterOberrycare. What was the real intentions behind Oberrycare, it was not health care.

 

[Rolodawg2011]

So, what would you guys fix about Obamacare? It seems to me there's several things that a lot of conservatives agree on:

1. Get rid of the individual/employer mandates.

2. Get rid of the regs requiring coverage for various things (like maternity care - make it optional). This will create lower cost, "catastrophic" type policies.

3. Roll back Medicaid expansion to create more customers for private insurance while providing tax credits for lower income, working Americans (more demand = lower costs).

What say you guys? How would you fix Obamacare?

Completely scrap it. Let the market work, its efficient

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

I havebeen in many cardiac bypass cases where the patient had no home or mailing address.. Treatment of care never varied. Our ER cost went through the roof afterOberrycare. What was the real intentions behind Oberrycare, it was not health care.

Well I agree that Obamacare was flawed. But I think we did need to/do need to find a workable way to cover pre existing conditions.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Completely scrap it. Let the market work, its efficient

No, wrong way, completely scrap it and let government work.

 

[Rolodawg2011]

Throw the system away. The only way to fix this is for government to be the only entity providing healthcare. Provide free government run healthcare to everyone.

Take it out of the private sector and costs will plummett.

Set it up like the postal system.

There should by a post office style clinic in every community. Everywhere you have a post office, have a clinic.

That is the simplest and most direct solution.

Name me one program the gov runs better than the private sector? With all the waste and fraud in Gov, you really want morons like Nancy Pelosi providing your health coverage? You want them deciding what and how much coverage you can get?
Yea, the postal system. Do you even know anything about the Postal system? Do you know gov run HC is broke, and in the case of the VA people are actually dying.

One would have to be a weapons grade moron to want gov run HC

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Completely scrap it. Let the market work, its efficient

I generally default to that. The only considerations for this are that insurance costs for women and seniors will go up dramatically.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Name me one program the gov runs better than the private sector? With all the waste and fraud in Gov, you really want morons like Nancy Pelosi providing your health coverage? You want them deciding what and how much coverage you can get?
Yea, the postal system. Do you even know anything about the Postal system? Do you know gov run HC is broke, and in the case of the VA people are actually dying.

One would have to be a weapons grade moron to want gov run HC

Why do you bring up coverage? Insurance would be a thing of the past. People do not need health insurance, they need healthcare.

The government would not provide insurance, the government would provide healthcare. It would probably be only provider. We are sick of the uber rich getting more money out of the healthcare system.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Why do you bring up coverage? Insurance would be a thing of the past. People do not need health insurance, they need healthcare.

The government would not provide insurance, the government would provide healthcare. It would probably be only provider. We are sick of the uber rich getting more money out of the healthcare system.

No return comment??? I think everyone knows that the only solution is government provided healthcare.

 

[Rolodawg2011]

I generally default to that. The only considerations for this are that insurance costs for women and seniors will go up dramatically.

Not really, but it should right? more usage. It will drive down cost across the board. More and more young people would buy it if it were cheaper, and never use it.

I always start with are we free? If we are free, we have no demand on other peoples labor or coin. HC is not a right. Capitalism works.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Not really, but it should right? more usage. It will drive down cost across the board. More and more young people would buy it if it were cheaper, and never use it.

I always start with are we free? If we are free, we have no demand on other peoples labor or coin. HC is not a right. Capitalism works.

WRONG!!!!

Healthcare is not a privilege.

Healthcare is a basic, human right.

We have a moral obligation to assure that all people who need healthcare receive it.

 

[atlanta cock#]

WRONG!!!!

Healthcare is not a privilege.

Healthcare is a basic, human right.

We have a moral obligation to assure that all people who need healthcare receive it.

Well, we don't give out free water and food or clothing and shelter to everyone. Does that mean you give priority to healthcare over those things?

 

[AgEngDawg]

Well, we don't give out free water and food or clothing and shelter to everyone. Does that mean you give priority to healthcare over those things?

We give out welfare and food stamps so we take care of that.

However, those programs are inadequate. We should be doing more.

That crook Bill Clinton tried to gut those programs.

 

[ARealMunson]

Well, we don't give out free water and food or clothing and shelter to everyone. Does that mean you give priority to healthcare over those things?

Government provides significant housing and food assistance. Are you serious?

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

I'll say this about @AgEngDawg's idea - there's no reason people in the richest country in the world should go bankrupt because they happen to get cancer. We need a better plan one way or the other.

 

[AgEngDawg]

I'll say this about @AgEngDawg's idea - there's no reason people in the richest country in the world should go bankrupt because they happen to get cancer. We need a better plan one way or the other.

Thanks.

 

[Chopdawg]

I'm actually OK with some of the provisions of the skinny repeal. Don't require employers of 50 or more to provide insurance; with full employment, employers are going to have to offer benefits like insurance to attract good people. Also, do away with the tax penalty for no individual coverage, don't know if that was being enforced anyway.

But...aren't we going to have to regulate the insurance industry and pharmaceutical industry more than we do now? I think insurance and drugs cost way more than they should. Prices, especially for drugs, are insane. And check your hospital bill, next time you have any sort of procedure done. Makes me wonder where all that money goes.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

I'm actually OK with some of the provisions of the skinny repeal. Don't require employers of 50 or more to provide insurance; with full employment, employers are going to have to offer benefits like insurance to attract good people. Also, do away with the tax penalty for no individual coverage, don't know if that was being enforced anyway.

But...aren't we going to have to regulate the insurance industry and pharmaceutical industry more than we do now? I think insurance and drugs cost way more than they should. Prices, especially for drugs, are insane. And check your hospital bill, next time you have any sort of procedure done. Makes me wonder where all that money goes.

I think this is one issue people miss: we aren't going to be able to lower insurance costs until we lower the cost of treatment. The money hospitals pay for "administration" is often obscene.

 

[PotimusWillie]

It is not a right like freedom of speech? Explain why I should pay for your insurance? Simple question. And if I should pay what else for you should I pay for? Food clothing ,housing?

Insurance was created in a free market society. You have to understand the basic principles of insurance.
Insurance is the transfer of risk. The insurance company is willing to take the risk of loss from us for a payment or in insurance terms, a premium.

Now, here comes the hard part. If we were left to pay for our own medical costs, we could go bankrupt, or in the case of auto insurance, be totally socially irresponsible when we injure others if we don't have the wherewithal to pay for damages or injury to others.

So to take on the risk, the insurance formula is to take a small amount from many, the theory of large numbers. This way, the insurance company can keep thousands of dollars in the bank for you for just a small premium. The theory of large numbers anticipates loss and no loss. This is the actuarial part of insurance.

So you have to share in the cost of insurance as part of the large number, or it would not be affordable. Actually, you would just self insure and be totally irresponsible to others.

In the case of medical insurance, it cannot be all things to all people because it is financially impossible, unless you want to shut down the economic system totally. The burden of paying the bills becomes the responsibility of a few, which is the exact opposite of how insurance works. If you don't have large numbers and large diversity of risk, it collapses.

Just a thought. Insurance isn't criminal. Forcing people into a program that forces others to pay for it is.

IMHO>

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Insurance was created in a free market society. You have to understand the basic principles of insurance.
Insurance is the transfer of risk. The insurance company is willing to take the risk of loss from us for a payment or in insurance terms, a premium.

Now, here comes the hard part. If we were left to pay for our own medical costs, we could go bankrupt, or in the case of auto insurance, be totally socially irresponsible when we injure others if we don't have the wherewithal to pay for damages or injury to others.

So to take on the risk, the insurance formula is to take a small amount from many, the theory of large numbers. This way, the insurance company can keep thousands of dollars in the bank for you for just a small premium. The theory of large numbers anticipates loss and no loss. This is the actuarial part of insurance.

So you have to share in the cost of insurance as part of the large number, or it would not be affordable. Actually, you would just self insure and be totally irresponsible to others.

In the case of medical insurance, it cannot be all things to all people because it is financially impossible, unless you want to shut down the economic system totally. The burden of paying the bills becomes the responsibility of a few, which is the exact opposite of how insurance works. If you don't have large numbers and large diversity of risk, it collapses.

Just a thought. Insurance isn't criminal. Forcing people into a program that forces others to pay for it is.

IMHO>

Good post PW

 

[CJPurgerson]

Throw the system away. The only way to fix this is for government to be the only entity providing healthcare. Provide free government run healthcare to everyone.

Take it out of the private sector and costs will plummett.

Set it up like the postal system.

There should by a post office style clinic in every community. Everywhere you have a post office, have a clinic.

That is the simplest and most direct solution.

You obviously don't know anyone using VA insurance or heard of the Charlie Gard situation. Perfect examples for why you don't want the government controlling your insurance. Costs don't go down. Who stops the fraud in these situations? That's the single biggest problem with Medicare right now is Medicare fraud.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

You obviously don't know anyone using VA insurance or heard of the Charlie Gard situation. Perfect examples for why you don't want the government controlling your insurance. Costs don't go down. Who stops the fraud in these situations? That's the single biggest problem with Medicare right now is Medicare fraud.

You wouldn't have Medicare fraud if you had single payer (not advocating single payer, just saying that's a non issue under a system like that). Under single payer there's no 3rd party insurer; thus no one to defraud.

The Charlie Gard situation does blow my mind. It's amazing that they need a court order to pay for treatment with their own money. That's insane

 

[CJPurgerson]

You wouldn't have Medicare fraud if you had single payer (not advocating single payer, just saying that's a non issue under a system like that). Under single payer there's no 3rd party insurer; thus no one to defraud.

The Charlie Gard situation does blow my mind. It's amazing that they need a court order to pay for treatment with their own money. That's insane

Medicare is essentially a single-payer system.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Medicare is essentially a single-payer system.

So this is a little wonky but not really. Medicare is more a government insurance option than single payer. In single payer, there's no third party payer like Medicare or Medicaid. There are subtle differences here but the end result is that the type of fraud that occurs with Medicare/Medicaid is eliminated in a single payer system because the provider isn't paid by the test or service and there's no incentive to feign poverty to qualify for the insurance on the part of the insured.

Again, not an endorsement, just making sure the facts are out there

 

[phoenixdawg]

Why do you bring up coverage? Insurance would be a thing of the past. People do not need health insurance, they need healthcare.

The government would not provide insurance, the government would provide healthcare. It would probably be only provider. We are sick of the uber rich getting more money out of the healthcare system.

How do you pay for it, what do you consider Uber rich. Uber rich is already paying for the majority of healthcare in this country, what changes except government inefficiency. Have you ever worked for a government entity.

 

[AgEngDawg]

How do you pay for it, what do you consider Uber rich. Uber rich is already paying for the majority of healthcare in this country, what changes except government inefficiency. Have you ever worked for a government entity.

I would say increase the taxes on those households making more than $200K. Also eliminate a lot of deductions on those households making more than $200K. Example eliminate the mortgage deduction for those.

 

[MRDAWG]

Keep goverment out of it , that is simple. Making me have GYN coverage. That is your goverment in charge. Oberrycare was written by insurance companies and lobbyist. Explain why you want your goverment telling you what you have to buy? Before I have to fix it explain why I need it.

Pulling out GYN, maternity, birth control is the same as calling your insurance saying remove my falling trees coverage. I don't have any trees.
Everybody has to be covered for all the perils on the policy. I took insurance 101.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Pulling out GYN, maternity, birth control is the same as calling your insurance saying remove my falling trees coverage. I don't have any trees.
Everybody has to be covered for all the perils on the policy. I took insurance 101.

Exactly we do not need insurance, we need healthcare. Do away with insurance and let the US government provide without insurance.

 

[Boost Assendahm]

Before we the people craft a national healthcare (NOT insurance) program, we need to discuss the funding every step of the way. And, you nailed it, we are going to have to develop a plan that works at the community and state levels before DC will do anything much less commit to anything that doesn't involve voting preference surveys 24-7. Neither party has ever been as functional as needs be due to the everlasting reelection ball and chain.

Health "Insurance" should be supplemental, complementary, NOT the primary support/source for healthcare. Expand Medicare and Medicaid (not their staffing to further burden government staffing payrolls), but make them more efficient, more citizen friendly, while making the approval process more of a need based solution for the poor, homeless, aged, helpless (not clueless) and destitute (not college kids, not illegal immigrants and not for the wealthy, who still need to be legally defined with any consistency). Let's start the negotiations at all citizens with a personal income of 1 mill after taxes annually to start negotiations to see how it all affects the funding, then go from there.

Pre-existing conditions should not be covered by "insurance" (wreck your car or burn your house, then try to get insurance on either, simply insane). Government or National Healthcare, yes, but only if all your other forms of support are tapped out. And only if you've had insurance or national coverage before with the same or associated condition. There should also be a requirement for diet and exercise as part of the on going approval process. Again, not to add extra staffing, but to require of the individual citizen a minimum accountability for "doing the right thing" toward improving/maintaining his/her own health.

To avoid writing 2300 more pages, we should take a look at Canada's and maybe a couple of the more efficient and effective European programs, then do our best to mesh the best of what we already have with Medicare, Medicaid with the most effective and most efficient parts of their programs. Obviously tax increases across the board or siphoning funds from other "overweight" entitlement programs will be needed. Hard decisions are not always popular with all of us or with our comedians, so we have to be mindful of that.....or do we really?

I'm confident that a non-partisan, non-political, randomly selected committee of citizens (at least one no more than 3 from each State) with no nervous tics over reelection could cobble together a basic, functional plan in less than 3 months. Then let the budget and taxation geeks (no politicians or staff) take a look at it, and assign an operation budget along with primary sources defined for funding.

It's really not that hard or complex. Only the politics are complex.

 

[phoenixdawg]

I would say increase the taxes on those households making more than $200K. Also eliminate a lot of deductions on those households making more than $200K. Example eliminate the mortgage deduction for those.

Are you kidding me 200k is nothing when you tax it at 40%, net is 120,000. With house prices up, car payments that average 500 a month, insurance for all the above you run out of cash quick. I would be all for eliminating mortgage deduction if I could put more than 25k a year in 401k. What world do you live in where 200k is rich. 2 tenured school teachers make. 200k inTexas.

 

[AgEngDawg]

Are you kidding me 200k is nothing when you tax it at 40%, net is 120,000. With house prices up, car payments that average 500 a month, insurance for all the above you run out of cash quick. I would be all for eliminating mortgage deduction if I could put more than 25k a year in 401k. What world do you live in where 200k is rich. 2 tenured school teachers make. 200k inTexas.

Do they really need that new car? Also, do they really need that four bedroom house? Have to make sacrifices for the greater good.