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Congrats to The Men's Basketball Team for a big win over Tech

HeulenHund2

Letterman and National Champion
Apr 30, 2015
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It was the JJ and Maten show in the convincing win over The Bugs.
This team still has quite a bit of upside to grow into IMO.
I think We'll make The NCAA Tourney, barring too many injuries of course.
 
It was the JJ and Maten show in the convincing win over The Bugs.
This team still has quite a bit of upside to grow into IMO.
I think We'll make The NCAA Tourney, barring too many injuries of course.
Hope so or a anthor Mark will be out of a job
 
Hope so or a anthor Mark will be out of a job

The great progress Maten has made year over year makes Me very hopeful Fox has adapted his style to better reach young players. The young forward is better in every facet of his game.
Ogbeide and Edwards should add a lot to the team as their seasons progress, which stands to make the team better on both ends of the court.
 
The great progress Maten has made year over year makes Me very hopeful Fox has adapted his style to better reach young players. The young forward is better in every facet of his game.
Ogbeide and Edwards should add a lot to the team as their seasons progress, which stands to make the team better on both ends of the court.
I think he has to we do need to pull some of these top instate targets.
 
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I think he has to we do need to pull some of these top instate targets.

Absolutely agree. Maybe We're actually on a trajectory that will convince a few of the top level instate blue chip guys to hitch their stars to Our program. Fox is not a dynamic recruiter, that is plain to see. The program itself might become the best recruiter with some consistent success.
One thing Fox is doing is building an athletic team with more upside. All of his resent signings are long, can run and have good frames.
 
Absolutely agree. Maybe We're actually on a trajectory that will convince a few of the top level instate blue chip guys to hitch their stars to Our program. Fox is not a dynamic recruiter, that is plain to see. The program itself might become the best recruiter with some consistent success.
One thing Fox is doing is building an athletic team with more upside. All of his resent signings are long, can run and have good frames.
Well I'm glad to hear that I hope fox is making head ways. Just have to give him time. I love this olgedio kid.
 
Well I'm glad to hear that I hope fox is making head ways. Just have to give him time. I love this olgedio kid.

Ogbeide will be a defensive help right away. I actually think Mike Edwards has the better all around long term upside though. It's clear both can help improve the team on both ends of the floor. Both have the length, running ability and frame to work with.
 
Ogbeide will be a defensive help right away. I actually think Mike Edwards has the better all around long term upside though. It's clear both can help improve the team on both ends of the floor. Both have the length, running ability and frame to work with.
sounds like it I hear this kid is good
 
I think he has to we do need to pull some of these top instate targets.

He had his work cut out for him when he came. Too many disasters before him to fix. Not to mention, we're known in the state as the "football" school. We are. And to a basketball player, it means something. But hopefully he's had enough time to make some inroads in the high schools and cleaned up some of the mess.

Also, Joni's got the Lady Dawgs rolling! They really seem to be excited playing for her and it shows. They have a game the 23rd at 1pm for those that might can make it. I think it's buy 1/get one. It's only 5 bucks anyway.
 
He had his work cut out for him when he came. Too many disasters before him to fix. Not to mention, we're known in the state as the "football" school. We are. And to a basketball player, it means something. But hopefully he's had enough time to make some inroads in the high schools and cleaned up some of the mess.

Also, Joni's got the Lady Dawgs rolling! They really seem to be excited playing for her and it shows. They have a game the 23rd at 1pm for those that might can make it. I think it's buy 1/get one. It's only 5 bucks anyway.
Wish I could in Colorado
 
He had his work cut out for him when he came. Too many disasters before him to fix. Not to mention, we're known in the state as the "football" school. We are. And to a basketball player, it means something. But hopefully he's had enough time to make some inroads in the high schools and cleaned up some of the mess.

Also, Joni's got the Lady Dawgs rolling! They really seem to be excited playing for her and it shows. They have a game the 23rd at 1pm for those that might can make it. I think it's buy 1/get one. It's only 5 bucks anyway.

Fox made His job harder by trying to run the triangle far after it was clearly not working. He was taking forever to train players to his offense, even then it was plodding.
He's finally made concessions though. Maten has made great strides, as have other young players.
 
Fox made His job harder by trying to run the triangle far after it was clearly not working. He was taking forever to train players to his offense, even then it was plodding.
He's finally made concessions though. Maten has made great strides, as have other young players.

Not at all, and it worked last year and is working this year. Really, all he has been missing was a big man with very good upside. Don't get me wrong, Thorton played well last year or so and I was happy to see it as he had been hurt for so much of his college career. Maten fits well, JJ plays very well, both improving daily...no one ever doubted, at least those who knew, that Fox can X and O...recruiting will always be an issue. This team, wish we had another year of it honestly, but with those 2...Gaines who can get hot and fill the role of the 3 point shooter, but can also drive, defend, and rebound because of his size...and then you have Mann. People say his season is down, but this is a kid who has had a different role with UGA each year. Reports say his attitude is great and he is more than willing to do whatever it takes. This year it meant taking a back seat, last year it was being a more focal point of the offense. Kid, like Gaines, is extremely strong for his position so he can hit the boards and defend pretty physically. With the new rules and trying to increase points, i was worried about he and Gaines a bit on the defensive side. If we can get some health and the "5" we should be a pretty good team going forward. Kessler had, probably, his best game since he signed. Now, that isn't saying a whole lot compared to scorers and such, but he competed for rebounds and wasn't a TO liability today.
 
Not at all, and it worked last year and is working this year. Really, all he has been missing was a big man with very good upside. Don't get me wrong, Thorton played well last year or so and I was happy to see it as he had been hurt for so much of his college career. Maten fits well, JJ plays very well, both improving daily...no one ever doubted, at least those who knew, that Fox can X and O...recruiting will always be an issue. This team, wish we had another year of it honestly, but with those 2...Gaines who can get hot and fill the role of the 3 point shooter, but can also drive, defend, and rebound because of his size...and then you have Mann. People say his season is down, but this is a kid who has had a different role with UGA each year. Reports say his attitude is great and he is more than willing to do whatever it takes. This year it meant taking a back seat, last year it was being a more focal point of the offense. Kid, like Gaines, is extremely strong for his position so he can hit the boards and defend pretty physically. With the new rules and trying to increase points, i was worried about he and Gaines a bit on the defensive side. If we can get some health and the "5" we should be a pretty good team going forward. Kessler had, probably, his best game since he signed. Now, that isn't saying a whole lot compared to scorers and such, but he competed for rebounds and wasn't a TO liability today.

The offense is working now because Fox relented and isn't trying to teach quantum equation offense. The triangle as he attempted it till last season works if you've got veterans with Kobe and MJ ability. What I see now is a far more standard offense, something 20 year old kids with decent ability can run.
No doubt overall quality depth is a big factor as well, it always matters.
 
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Not at all, and it worked last year and is working this year. Really, all he has been missing was a big man with very good upside. Don't get me wrong, Thorton played well last year or so and I was happy to see it as he had been hurt for so much of his college career. Maten fits well, JJ plays very well, both improving daily...no one ever doubted, at least those who knew, that Fox can X and O...recruiting will always be an issue. This team, wish we had another year of it honestly, but with those 2...Gaines who can get hot and fill the role of the 3 point shooter, but can also drive, defend, and rebound because of his size...and then you have Mann. People say his season is down, but this is a kid who has had a different role with UGA each year. Reports say his attitude is great and he is more than willing to do whatever it takes. This year it meant taking a back seat, last year it was being a more focal point of the offense. Kid, like Gaines, is extremely strong for his position so he can hit the boards and defend pretty physically. With the new rules and trying to increase points, i was worried about he and Gaines a bit on the defensive side. If we can get some health and the "5" we should be a pretty good team going forward. Kessler had, probably, his best game since he signed. Now, that isn't saying a whole lot compared to scorers and such, but he competed for rebounds and wasn't a TO liability today.

Nice post from someone who's been in the "arena". : ) I still think, when it comes to recruits, it begins with their HS coaches. UGA through the years in men's bb (and Donnan years in football) shot themselves in the foot that took years to overcome after Harrick (good coach.......but), Felton (zero personality for GA native HS players or coaches, I mean those you recruit, not just fans) I think Fox has made inroads in cleaning some of that up. Any coach who would paint himself red/black and join the guys on the front row spelling out Georgia at a football game, knowing everyone in the world was going to see it, is ok in my book. Sense of humor, can relate to the kids, etc. I realize there's more to it like philosophy in the game itself, but like I said, you got to get the HS coaches and kids to like you before you can sell them anything.
 
The offense is working now because Fox relented and isn't trying to teach quantum equation offense. The triangle as he attempted it till last season works if you've got veterans with Kobe and MJ ability. What I see now is a far more standard offense, something 20 year old kids with decent ability can run.
No doubt overall quality depth is a big factor as well, it always matters.

We are running the triangle. You may know more about politics, more about football coaching than kirby, etc...but I know UGA basketball. This team isn't much better than last years, it has more upside because of the post. No hoops coach in the land questions Fox's X and O's. Calipari, Donovan, etc...have always said his teams were some of, if not the, best coached teams in the SEC. His problem has been talent (his fault as well.) I think he partially realized that he won't get the elite in GA...maybe ever, but at least not until we get some consistent NCAA success. Find guys that fit roles. The only coach we ever had that really did that kind of recruiting well was Harrick. Granted, he inherited Ezra and Jarvis (along with Jonas) fell into his lap, but its not as if he got the elite of the GA HS basketball world. He recruited to roles and it worked out well, especially in the post.
 
Nice post from someone who's been in the "arena". : ) I still think, when it comes to recruits, it begins with their HS coaches. UGA through the years in men's bb (and Donnan years in football) shot themselves in the foot that took years to overcome after Harrick (good coach.......but), Felton (zero personality for GA native HS players or coaches, I mean those you recruit, not just fans) I think Fox has made inroads in cleaning some of that up. Any coach who would paint himself red/black and join the guys on the front row spelling out Georgia at a football game, knowing everyone in the world was going to see it, is ok in my book. Sense of humor, can relate to the kids, etc. I realize there's more to it like philosophy in the game itself, but like I said, you got to get the HS coaches and kids to like you before you can sell them anything.


I don't think that anyone full comprehends how badly Felton pissed off some AAU coaches. Now, my opinions and many others of AAU aside (it's crooked as hell,) they are very important. Quite honestly, it being UGA hoops is the only reason Felton lasted as long..aka no history of consistent winning, etc...He pissed off some big money donor, he pissed of some regular fans, and he pissed of the HS and AAU coaches (not all, but enough.) Now, its just my thought, but I have always felt that UGA needed to string together 3-4 NCAA tourney seasons (and all can't be one and done) in order to start being able to sell kids on playing at home instead of leaving for more elite programs.
 
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We are running the triangle. You may know more about politics, more about football coaching than kirby, etc...but I know UGA basketball. This team isn't much better than last years, it has more upside because of the post. No hoops coach in the land questions Fox's X and O's. Calipari, Donovan, etc...have always said his teams were some of, if not the, best coached teams in the SEC. His problem has been talent (his fault as well.) I think he partially realized that he won't get the elite in GA...maybe ever, but at least not until we get some consistent NCAA success. Find guys that fit roles. The only coach we ever had that really did that kind of recruiting well was Harrick. Granted, he inherited Ezra and Jarvis (along with Jonas) fell into his lap, but its not as if he got the elite of the GA HS basketball world. He recruited to roles and it worked out well, especially in the post.

Call it what You will. We're ''running'' more, I see far less half court 2 man isolation and more 3 or 4 man perimeter movement with the more traditional 1 or 2 players in the low post to free throw line areas.
This offense looks little like the addled attempts at isolating a player while 3 or 4 guys stood around with thumbs up their butts that was prevalent in the past.
Personally I'd like to see more of a true motion offense, We certainly have the athletes to run more.
 
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Call it what You will. We're ''running'' more, I see far less half court 2 man isolation and more 3 or 4 man perimeter movement with the more traditional 1 or 2 players in the low post to free throw line areas.
This offense looks little like the addled attempts at isolating a player while 3 or 4 guys stood around with thumbs up their butts that was prevalent in the past.
Personally I'd like to see more of a true motion offense, We certainly have the athletes to run more.

The triangle keys on 3 players doing majority of scoring, and that's what we see now. Gaines, JJ, and Maten. Mann has been asked to fill a different role and may be the most important player in that he's been willing to change himself from a primary scorer, to more of a distributor and defensive guy along with boards. We benefit from Gaines and Mann both being pretty well built and strong for their positions and both are sound defensively. We run a bit more, because when healthy, this team has some depth that it really hasn't had since Harrick. I worked in the motion offense, as it was Tubby's thing, but it also has some weaknesses. If you want to run true motion, you better have 2 post players who can score. We haven't had that since Tubby really. Daniels and Thomas could score, but not in a big way. T Bell and Los could do it, Baker and Hall under Smith (96-97) to a lesser extent. Motion also require the most thinking of any offense as the plays aren't set, really at all, in the half court. It is all based on where you are, where your fellow players are, where the ball is and where it goes next...that all dictates where you should go screen.
 
Our depth, as improved as it is, isn't set up for motion anyway. Guys like Kessler and the younger guys....no. Kessler especially. All you want out of Kessler is good defensive effort, boards (led team yesterday) and don't turn the ball over.
 
The triangle keys on 3 players doing majority of scoring, and that's what we see now. Gaines, JJ, and Maten. Mann has been asked to fill a different role and may be the most important player in that he's been willing to change himself from a primary scorer, to more of a distributor and defensive guy along with boards. We benefit from Gaines and Mann both being pretty well built and strong for their positions and both are sound defensively. We run a bit more, because when healthy, this team has some depth that it really hasn't had since Harrick. I worked in the motion offense, as it was Tubby's thing, but it also has some weaknesses. If you want to run true motion, you better have 2 post players who can score. We haven't had that since Tubby really. Daniels and Thomas could score, but not in a big way. T Bell and Los could do it, Baker and Hall under Smith (96-97) to a lesser extent. Motion also require the most thinking of any offense as the plays aren't set, really at all, in the half court. It is all based on where you are, where your fellow players are, where the ball is and where it goes next...that all dictates where you should go screen.

It may be A triangle, but it's far from the plodding isolations Fox favored earlier. It is about as much like Fox's earlier offenses as Bobo's later schemes were like Richt's beginning in 2002 ( after scraping the FSU hurry up). Frankly We ran some of the ugliest, least effective set plays I've ever seen in Fox's first 4 or 5 seasons.
I see far more motion and not nearly as much statically looking to get the ball to a designated player in a set position as in past years.
That said, I'd still like to see a bit more movement, that would play to a strength.
I don't know of a great coach who doesn't mix and match these days. It's hard to take advantage of what is being given if too much is predetermined.

Even Phil Jackson has diversified The Knicks' offense this year. He found out those endless isolations aren't as effective without Kobe and Shaq or MJ and Pippen.
 
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I don't think that anyone full comprehends how badly Felton pissed off some AAU coaches. Now, my opinions and many others of AAU aside (it's crooked as hell,) they are very important. Quite honestly, it being UGA hoops is the only reason Felton lasted as long..aka no history of consistent winning, etc...He pissed off some big money donor, he pissed of some regular fans, and he pissed of the HS and AAU coaches (not all, but enough.) Now, its just my thought, but I have always felt that UGA needed to string together 3-4 NCAA tourney seasons (and all can't be one and done) in order to start being able to sell kids on playing at home instead of leaving for more elite programs.

Oh I agree we need to win and it would help to bring them here. Just making observation of "talk" from some who should know, just how badly things were with HS coaches, etc. after some of the coaches since Tubby. Felton was a real piece of work. And it starts with a personality to at LEAST get you in their door.
 
Did you not r
It may be A triangle, but it's far from the plodding isolations Fox favored earlier. It is about as much like Fox's earlier offenses as Bobo's later schemes were like Richt's beginning in 2002 ( after scraping the FSU hurry up). Frankly We ran some of the ugliest, least effective set plays I've ever seen in Fox's first 4 or 5 seasons.
I see far more motion and not nearly as much statically looking to get the ball to a designated player in a set position as in past years.
That said, I'd still like to see a bit more movement, that would play to a strength.
I don't know of a great coach who doesn't mix and match these days. It's hard to take advantage of what is being given if too much is predetermined.

Even Phil Jackson has diversified The Knicks' offense this year. He found out those endless isolations aren't as effective without Kobe and Shaq or MJ and Pippen.

Dude, really...read...as I stated, the reason for lack of movement had to deal with depth and the lack of a post player that could run it. During Shaq and Kobe, the triangle was very fluid, only after Shaq left did you see the more isolation type offense, as really the Lakers were attempting to win with 2 main scoring threats and one who could really play the low block in a dominate fashion. The knicks...well, the knicks are a disaster with one truly great all around player (not Carmelo.) As for more movement, that would NOT play to a strength of this team until it is fully healthy and some of those coming into health now have rust knocked off. I still worry for this team should foul trouble affect Mann, Gaines, JJ or Maten. Especially the latter as their isn't a good replacement for Maten... At least Mann, JJ, and Gaines can somewhat make up for each other if 1 goes down to fouls.
 
Oh I agree we need to win and it would help to bring them here. Just making observation of "talk" from some who should know, just how badly things were with HS coaches, etc. after some of the coaches since Tubby. Felton was a real piece of work. And it starts with a personality to at LEAST get you in their door.

I was agreeing with you. That all said, if we want the elite level Georgia HS players...then we have to put together wins consistently for several years. I understand the Duke, UK, UCLA, UNC, etc...kids may not come to UGA...ever, but there is no reason for a kid like Brogden (who went to GAC, my alma mater) to end up at UVA. Now, maybe, but when he signed with UVA, its not like they had been great for the past 10 years. Winning cures a lot of recruiting problems. Case in point, Rupp has always been big, but it was a POS that was big for many years (that has changed.) Cameron Indoor is a major POS, always has been, always will be.
 
Did you not r


Dude, really...read...as I stated, the reason for lack of movement had to deal with depth and the lack of a post player that could run it. During Shaq and Kobe, the triangle was very fluid, only after Shaq left did you see the more isolation type offense, as really the Lakers were attempting to win with 2 main scoring threats and one who could really play the low block in a dominate fashion. The knicks...well, the knicks are a disaster with one truly great all around player (not Carmelo.) As for more movement, that would NOT play to a strength of this team until it is fully healthy and some of those coming into health now have rust knocked off. I still worry for this team should foul trouble affect Mann, Gaines, JJ or Maten. Especially the latter as their isn't a good replacement for Maten... At least Mann, JJ, and Gaines can somewhat make up for each other if 1 goes down to fouls.

Well, We disagree on some of Your points, what's new ?
We didn't have remotely the personnel needed to run isolations like Fox kept doing in those early years. It was a complete train wreck most games. We would have been far better off running a simple AAU offense.
I don't see the changes as much talent driven as Fox waking up to what seemed obvious to most casual fans.
As far as movement, I watch San Antonio use guard centric movement, then bring in an extra big and go with more outside/in, inside/out, but still with continuous movement, same with The Hawks.
Clearly the team will have more options when Ogbeide and Edwards gain some experience, maybe even a few iso plays to Edwards.
 
Well, We disagree on some of Your points, what's new ?
We didn't have remotely the personnel needed to run isolations like Fox kept doing in those early years. It was a complete train wreck most games. We would have been far better off running a simple AAU offense.
I don't see the changes as much talent driven as Fox waking up to what seemed obvious to most casual fans.
As far as movement, I watch San Antonio use guard centric movement, then bring in an extra big and go with more outside/in, inside/out, but still with continuous movement, same with The Hawks.
Clearly the team will have more options when Ogbeide and Edwards gain some experience, maybe even a few iso plays to Edwards.

We didn't move nor run an "AAU offense" which is laughable since AAU concentrates a ton on iso plays as it is the most self centered level of hoops for players because of lack of personnel. Yet coaches left and right said X and O fox was great, someone who spent some years in the college hoops world say it...but of course, again, you know better....shocking. Fox's biggest problem here, unlike his time at Nevada, was recruiting, still is to some extent. As far as movement with San Antonio...they are the best put together team in the NBA in some years....Atlanta is trying to duplicate that because of their ties to the spurs. Ogbeide and Edwards don't have to be an option or ran for ISO. That would be asking a lot of them. If they can simply fill the roles of rebounding and such, this team could be pretty darn good.
 
We didn't move nor run an "AAU offense" which is laughable since AAU concentrates a ton on iso plays as it is the most self centered level of hoops for players because of lack of personnel. Yet coaches left and right said X and O fox was great, someone who spent some years in the college hoops world say it...but of course, again, you know better....shocking. Fox's biggest problem here, unlike his time at Nevada, was recruiting, still is to some extent. As far as movement with San Antonio...they are the best put together team in the NBA in some years....Atlanta is trying to duplicate that because of their ties to the spurs. Ogbeide and Edwards don't have to be an option or ran for ISO. That would be asking a lot of them. If they can simply fill the roles of rebounding and such, this team could be pretty darn good.

Wrong again. AAU ball is all about running. Nobody plants themselves anywhere for over a split second.
 
Wrong again. AAU ball is all about running. Nobody plants themselves anywhere for over a split second.

Run or not, it is individually focused in all of their plays...Good Lord....AAU is judged by how many players they put in big time colleges...the team game is secondary. Granted, the big ones win as the talent is overwhelming. Do you even know what ISO is? It has nothing to do with just standing and making a play, it is the focus to isolate a matchup, whether running or not. When you have no depth, as UGA didn't for many years, it turns into a half court ISO set...if you have some depth and don't have to worry as much about stamina, that can be done on secondary breaks. It has absolutely nothing to do with pace of game. Nice try though...Then again, you know more than Coach Smart, other college football experts, etc...so why you wouldn't delusion yourself into thinking you know more about hoops than I isn't a far stretch.
 
Run or not, it is individually focused in all of their plays...Good Lord....AAU is judged by how many players they put in big time colleges...the team game is secondary. Granted, the big ones win as the talent is overwhelming. Do you even know what ISO is? It has nothing to do with just standing and making a play, it is the focus to isolate a matchup, whether running or not. When you have no depth, as UGA didn't for many years, it turns into a half court ISO set...if you have some depth and don't have to worry as much about stamina, that can be done on secondary breaks. It has absolutely nothing to do with pace of game. Nice try though...Then again, you know more than Coach Smart, other college football experts, etc...so why you wouldn't delusion yourself into thinking you know more about hoops than I isn't a far stretch.

I completely agree many AAU plays end up with one player going to the basket against one defender, but that isn't really by design like The Triangle set iso plays.
I took a quick look at which plays are most efficient in The NBA.
Synergy came up with these stats.
Points per play..
Off the ball cuts ..1.18
Transition .. 1.12
Putbacks .. 1.04
Pick and Roll .. 0.97
Isolation .. 0.78

The Triangle in general, and isolation in particular is not good for running any of the 4 most efficient plays in basketball.
Only if You have a superior one on one player is it effective, give it to Lebron in Iso with the game on the line. Even with a great one on one talent though, it's not the best offense to use throughout a game.

Isolation isn't conducive to
 
I completely agree many AAU plays end up with one player going to the basket against one defender, but that isn't really by design like The Triangle set iso plays.
I took a quick look at which plays are most efficient in The NBA.
Synergy came up with these stats.
Points per play..
Off the ball cuts ..1.18
Transition .. 1.12
Putbacks .. 1.04
Pick and Roll .. 0.97
Isolation .. 0.78

The Triangle in general, and isolation in particular is not good for running any of the 4 most efficient plays in basketball.
Only if You have a superior one on one player is it effective, give it to Lebron in Iso with the game on the line. Even with a great one on one talent though, it's not the best offense to use throughout a game.

Isolation isn't conducive to

FYI, what you described...in terms of one on one, many times, especially on secondary break or off the half court set, is indeed very much about the matchup. Matchups are everything in basketball, if i can come off a traditional break, run my secondary cut and get Gaines guarded by a big or Maten by a small...that is by design.
 
FYI, what you described...in terms of one on one, many times, especially on secondary break or off the half court set, is indeed very much about the matchup. Matchups are everything in basketball, if i can come off a traditional break, run my secondary cut and get Gaines guarded by a big or Maten by a small...that is by design.

I get that the fundamental advantage of a fast break is getting to the opponent's basket before their interior defenders can get in position, so the design is built in to a great extent. A motion offense gives You many more advantages, but the principle is the same. The Hawks for about 35 games last year damn near perfected the motion offense, it was beautiful to watch.
 
I get that the fundamental advantage of a fast break is getting to the opponent's basket before their interior defenders can get in position, so the design is built in to a great extent. A motion offense gives You many more advantages, but the principle is the same. The Hawks for about 35 games last year damn near perfected the motion offense, it was beautiful to watch.

You keep wanting to change things..no, the MATCHUP on the break, leading into the secondary break, is very much by design. The secondary break may or may not occur before going into half court set based on who is defending who...aka ISO. Is it what most think of, no, because ISO is a term they are used to seeing in the pros where it generally means that 1 guy is all by himself against a defender, with everyone else clearing out. The pros is an individual dominated league, with players more important than team, thus ISO has become a bad word in the team game because of how the NBA runs it.
 
You keep wanting to change things..no, the MATCHUP on the break, leading into the secondary break, is very much by design. The secondary break may or may not occur before going into half court set based on who is defending who...aka ISO. Is it what most think of, no, because ISO is a term they are used to seeing in the pros where it generally means that 1 guy is all by himself against a defender, with everyone else clearing out. The pros is an individual dominated league, with players more important than team, thus ISO has become a bad word in the team game because of how the NBA runs it.

The iso you keep mentioning is something that almost never happened in Fox's early years. It was so bad announcers often had no idea what we were trying to do. The thing that developed enough to actually tell what the plan was, a guard simply threw the ball to a player in a set position to the side of the foul line. The trouble is We didn't have players capable of making that one on one work with any regularity. As My NBA stats pointed out, almost no NBA team can make it work often enough to be statistically sound.
The whole concept of a fast break combined with a half court set frankly seems at odds and defeating of the purpose. The matchups on full court fast breaks, which to me are the only real fast breaks, can't be pre-designed, they are the bi-product of rebounding and defense.

Also as far as I can find the only teams to win a title running a triangle are college women and NBA teams who had either Jordan or Kobe Bryant, maybe the 2 best in history at one on one matchup play. If a Men's college team has ever won a title with it, I have yet to find it mentioned.
 
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The iso you keep mentioning is something that almost never happened in Fox's early years. It was so bad announcers often had no idea what we were trying to do. The thing that developed enough to actually tell what the plan was, a guard simply threw the ball to a player in a set position to the side of the foul line. The trouble is We didn't have players capable of making that one on one work with any regularity. As My NBA stats pointed out, almost no NBA team can make it work often enough to be statistically sound.
The whole concept of a fast break combined with a half court set frankly seems at odds and defeating of the purpose. The matchups on full court fast breaks, which to me are the only real fast breaks, can't be pre-designed, they are the bi-product of rebounding and defense.
Has any team ever won an NCAA Tourney running a triangle offense ?

See, this is the difference between someone who has been there and a fan. The true fast break is ran with actually play sets out of the defense. This is practiced based on opponent. Then you enter the secondary break, generally anywhere from 3-5 set plays that attempt to get what a fan would classify as a fast break basket that is, in fact, a set play. Most of the time this is based on the defense that has been set on the play that lead to fast break. Then you enter into your half court if neither the original push, nor the secondary pushed worked out. It is all planned in college, I would assume, much like most pro sports, it gets even more choreographed at the pros. The fact that you think it is counterproductive is because you haven't seen all designed out. Ex. Out of 55 (man D) we would transition into the break. 2 and 3 go wide, 4 comes down right side of bucket, 5 comes down middle; from there, if an easy layup/dunk doesn't present and depending on matchup defensively (aka who picked up ball and basket) 2 and 3 would come under the basket crossing, 2 would flair straight out baseline to 3 point area and 3 would hit a 45 degree angle between baseline and free throw line. Now, if our video sessions panned it out,or if we saw it in game, that they were switching on screens....if 2 was on 2 and 3 on 3 (basically if who we thought would guard specific players held true on that break) 2 or 3 would set a screen for the other to try and get the switch and create the mismatch. From there, a lot of things could happen, but almost exclusively based on film study for defenders tendencies. If you can't transition from your fast break to your secondary to your half court set, you will not win many games...unless you are attempting the entire Loyola Maramount things under Hank and Bo where you don't care about D nor plays, just scoring 140 and hoping you don't give up 150.

As for title teams, not many run it, Izzo runs a variation depending on the year and Syracuse ran it when they had powerful bigs, not so much when the were wing and guard oriented. Wisconsin has ran it at times when they went away from just playing big, but their version is heavy post oriented. It requires a smart team, very smart, which honestly is probably why you don't see many men's teams run it but you see 3 of the best programs in women's history do or did during their heydays...Stanford, Uconn (still runs it), and Tennessee under Pat Summit. Now that men's rules more closely mirror the pros (in terms of protecting the offense to drive scores up) that just occurred this year, you may see more running it. Teams like UK will never run any of it, its not a learn in one year offense, at least not to the level of winning titles and UK is a one and done type program for the most part. Teams like UW, Duke (who has it as part of the offense but has lacked the bigs for quite a while compared to what they used to have,) MSU run it or run sets out of it because they get enough upperclassmen.
 
See, this is the difference between someone who has been there and a fan. The true fast break is ran with actually play sets out of the defense. This is practiced based on opponent. Then you enter the secondary break, generally anywhere from 3-5 set plays that attempt to get what a fan would classify as a fast break basket that is, in fact, a set play. Most of the time this is based on the defense that has been set on the play that lead to fast break. Then you enter into your half court if neither the original push, nor the secondary pushed worked out. It is all planned in college, I would assume, much like most pro sports, it gets even more choreographed at the pros. The fact that you think it is counterproductive is because you haven't seen all designed out. Ex. Out of 55 (man D) we would transition into the break. 2 and 3 go wide, 4 comes down right side of bucket, 5 comes down middle; from there, if an easy layup/dunk doesn't present and depending on matchup defensively (aka who picked up ball and basket) 2 and 3 would come under the basket crossing, 2 would flair straight out baseline to 3 point area and 3 would hit a 45 degree angle between baseline and free throw line. Now, if our video sessions panned it out,or if we saw it in game, that they were switching on screens....if 2 was on 2 and 3 on 3 (basically if who we thought would guard specific players held true on that break) 2 or 3 would set a screen for the other to try and get the switch and create the mismatch. From there, a lot of things could happen, but almost exclusively based on film study for defenders tendencies. If you can't transition from your fast break to your secondary to your half court set, you will not win many games...unless you are attempting the entire Loyola Maramount things under Hank and Bo where you don't care about D nor plays, just scoring 140 and hoping you don't give up 150.

As for title teams, not many run it, Izzo runs a variation depending on the year and Syracuse ran it when they had powerful bigs, not so much when the were wing and guard oriented. Wisconsin has ran it at times when they went away from just playing big, but their version is heavy post oriented. It requires a smart team, very smart, which honestly is probably why you don't see many men's teams run it but you see 3 of the best programs in women's history do or did during their heydays...Stanford, Uconn (still runs it), and Tennessee under Pat Summit. Now that men's rules more closely mirror the pros (in terms of protecting the offense to drive scores up) that just occurred this year, you may see more running it. Teams like UK will never run any of it, its not a learn in one year offense, at least not to the level of winning titles and UK is a one and done type program for the most part. Teams like UW, Duke (who has it as part of the offense but has lacked the bigs for quite a while compared to what they used to have,) MSU run it or run sets out of it because they get enough upperclassmen.

See, that is a lot of words to be plain wrong in the end.
Basketball ain't rocket science. Fast breaks are the bi-product of defense and rebounds. Of course teams practice ball movement and passes on breaks though, that isn't even toy rocket science.

I pointed out women, MJ and Kobe have won titles with the triangle. Women because they're built for half court ball, MJ and kobe because they are the best at one on one driving to the basket in history.
No men's college team has won a title running the triangle offense, not Duke, not anybody.
 
See, that is a lot of words to be plain wrong in the end.
Basketball ain't rocket science. Fast breaks are the bi-product of defense and rebounds. Of course teams practice ball movement and passes on breaks though, that isn't even toy rocket science.

I pointed out women, MJ and Kobe have won titles with the triangle. Women because they're built for half court ball, MJ and kobe because they are the best at one on one driving to the basket in history.
No men's college team has won a title running the triangle offense, not Duke, not anybody.

Holy crap, i worked for one of the few teams that had success at UGA, spent 50 hours plus per week even as a student...yet you know better, Wow, you're a douche.
 
Hell, i even laid out how we practiced it....and yet you know better. We spent hours working on that stuff, day after day...yet i'm wrong. Seriously man, you're a complete fool. You always know better than anyone, no matter their background, no matter if they've done it and you haven't. Doesn't matter if they are an expert, doesn't matter if they have been lauded for it, doesn't matter if they made something their life mission, doesn't matter to you, you know better. You don't phrase it as an opinion, you don't phrase it as anything less than the gospel fact. I worked alongside people who forgot more basketball than you will ever know. I know more about basketball than you do, especially the college game, how plays are designed, etc..doesn't matter, you know more than Tubby Smith, Jim Harrick, etc...combined. Just like you know more than Kirby Smart, Nick Saban, etc..combined.
 
Holy crap, i worked for one of the few teams that had success at UGA, spent 50 hours plus per week even as a student...yet you know better, Wow, you're a douche.

So with all this knowledge You think Coach K has run a triangle ?
What started his feud with Phil Jackson is a reporter asked him ''why he NEVER tried the triangle offense'' he laughed and said the triangle never won a championship, MJ and Kobe won them. Maybe you just forgot that Duke has never run the triangle..or maybe..
So, care to clear that one up, maybe a douche would help.
 
Hell, i even laid out how we practiced it....and yet you know better. We spent hours working on that stuff, day after day...yet i'm wrong. Seriously man, you're a complete fool. You always know better than anyone, no matter their background, no matter if they've done it and you haven't. Doesn't matter if they are an expert, doesn't matter if they have been lauded for it, doesn't matter if they made something their life mission, doesn't matter to you, you know better. You don't phrase it as an opinion, you don't phrase it as anything less than the gospel fact. I worked alongside people who forgot more basketball than you will ever know. I know more about basketball than you do, especially the college game, how plays are designed, etc..doesn't matter, you know more than Tubby Smith, Jim Harrick, etc...combined. Just like you know more than Kirby Smart, Nick Saban, etc..combined.

Testy little liar aren't you.
 
Yes, Coach K has ran a triangle, not solely, as i said, he has used it, he has used motion, he has used a perimeter heavy, he has used post. Coach K may be the best coach at adapting his style to his talent and meshing multiple systems. Its probably why he is so good at college, but also coaching pros in the Olympics. You also cherry pick quote. Coach K didn't say he hadn't ran the triangle, although one could say he's never been an offensive stalwart one way or the other, not on D either like Boehiem. He said he had no problem with the triangle, then went on to say NO OFFENSE EVER WON ANYTHING, that you in because you have championship level talent. He went on that the triangle is a solid offense, though its even better if you have a Jordan or Kobe who love it. He has won multiple titles with multiple sets and even different overall philosophies throughout the years. He adapts, its what he does. For years he focused on 3 and 4's, then when he beat butler, it was predominately a 3 point shooting guard team...he is the best at it, just like Izzo is the best at coaching up in the college ranks.
 
Testy little liar aren't you.

Ok, whatever you say, after all, you're the king of liars aren't you? You know better than Kirby, Fox, McGarity, hell...know better than God probably as well. You're worthless filth, full of yourself and full of your lies.
 
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