COVID in Texas - an ER executive’s perspective

[CoastalVADawg]

Some interesting points:
**Many of the people being tested would not have even met the criteria for testing back in March and April
**Most cases are mild (allergy or cold-like) and resolve in 2-3 days
**Most hospitalized cases never go to the ICU. ICU is being filled by people with other serious conditions that delayed going to hospital because of fear.
**Discharge planners are being pressured to list COVID as primary diagnosis (every person admitted to hospital, no matter the reason, is being tested)

 

[anon_rk74cn2rd0qzw]

Political bs. Time to open up and lets roll with some ball.

 

[WRobinsDawg]

Some interesting points:
**Many of the people being tested would not have even met the criteria for testing back in March and April
**Most cases are mild (allergy or cold-like) and resolve in 2-3 days
**Most hospitalized cases never go to the ICU. ICU is being filled by people with other serious conditions that delayed going to hospital because of fear.
**Discharge planners are being pressured to list COVID as primary diagnosis (every person admitted to hospital, no matter the reason, is being tested)

View embedded media

 

[LowerEastSideDawg]

Yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. Nothing to see here. And kudos to those with the courage to let us know that the virus that has killed 125,000+ Americans in four months is really no big deal.

 

[Nooga Dawg]

Yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. Nothing to see here. And kudos to those with the courage to let us know that the virus that has killed 125,000+ Americans in four months is really no big deal.

What if the REAL total is less than half that?
I say that because I am friends with two ER doctors - one in Atlanta (Vandy med school grad) and one in Dallas (Emory med school grad).
They don't know each other to my knowledge so I highly doubt their response is anything but their own.
Both say the same thing - the death count is VASTLY overstated due to a long list of reasons.
But they will tell you that it is at least half what the number being thrown around really is.
It's hard for me to hear that from two intelligent, measured, and both extremely honest people and not believe there is something to it.

Oh and both say social distancing is not the answer - herd immunity is........
(edit) they do say those at risk (elderly and existing conditions) should social distance.

 

[Boom MFer Dawg]

Some interesting points:
**Many of the people being tested would not have even met the criteria for testing back in March and April
**Most cases are mild (allergy or cold-like) and resolve in 2-3 days
**Most hospitalized cases never go to the ICU. ICU is being filled by people with other serious conditions that delayed going to hospital because of fear.
**Discharge planners are being pressured to list COVID as primary diagnosis (every person admitted to hospital, no matter the reason, is being tested)

View embedded media

So tired of the Covid is terrible/ not bad and mask / no mask arguments

 

[orangeisgay]

What if the REAL total is less than half that?
I say that because I am friends with two ER doctors - one in Atlanta (Vandy med school grad) and one in Dallas (Emory med school grad).
They don't know each other to my knowledge so I highly doubt their response is anything but their own.
Both say the same thing - the death count is VASTLY overstated due to a long list of reasons.
But they will tell you that it is at least half what the number being thrown around really is.
It's hard for me to hear that from two intelligent, measured, and both extremely honest people and not believe there is something to it.

Oh and both say social distancing is not the answer - herd immunity is........

My wife and I have talked to many people in the medical field that say the same thing, many people know the truth about this entire thing, but the fear mongering has gotten out of hand.

 

[TheRedRain]

Yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. Nothing to see here. And kudos to those with the courage to let us know that the virus that has killed 125,000+ Americans in four months is really no big deal.

That’s a nice straw man.

Nobody is saying that “everything is fine”... it may be the case that the situation in Texas isn’t as bad as it’s being portrayed. Does a Texas hospital executive not have the credibility to reach this conclusion?

 

[Nooga Dawg]

My wife and I have talked to many people in the medical field that say the same thing, many people know the truth about this entire thing, but the fear mongering has gotten out of hand.

Election year....... oh and if the covid thing winds down the next great plaque si already starting in China (swine flu)
So get ready for this to go on until at least after the election.....

 

[Nooga Dawg]

Yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. Nothing to see here. And kudos to those with the courage to let us know that the virus that has killed 125,000+ Americans in four months is really no big deal.

So are you saying that we should believe everything the media shoves down our throat without questioning their conclusions, much less their motives?

 

[Boom MFer Dawg]

Some interesting points:
**Many of the people being tested would not have even met the criteria for testing back in March and April
**Most cases are mild (allergy or cold-like) and resolve in 2-3 days
**Most hospitalized cases never go to the ICU. ICU is being filled by people with other serious conditions that delayed going to hospital because of fear.
**Discharge planners are being pressured to list COVID as primary diagnosis (every person admitted to hospital, no matter the reason, is being tested)

View embedded media

The major uptick nationally is 20-30 year olds, statistically, they will be less effected than older Americans

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

So are you saying that we should believe everything the media shoves down our throat without questioning their conclusions, much less their motives?

Of course not. We should reject what the consensus of experts say and listen to one dude who runs an ER in Texas, particularly if it conforms to our preconceived notions

 

[WRobinsDawg]

Welcome to Pandemic in America, the show where everything's made up and the deaths don't matter.

 

[IIIput]

At this point, I’m going to go ahead and assume everyone’s personal ideology greatly affects their views on this virus (at least when talking about US citizens).

Oh and the EU has banned travel into its countries by Americans, so that’s how our allies are viewing us right now.

 

[TheRedRain]

Of course not. We should reject what the consensus of experts say and listen to one dude who runs an ER in Texas, particularly if it conforms to our preconceived notions

Here’s the problem with that. The rejection of “one dude who runs an ER” (and the characterization of him in that manner) is equally driven by preconceived notions.

I would put more stock into his account of what is happening in Texas hospitals than the supposed “consensus of experts” (who don’t quite seem to have arrived at a “consensus” and who are probably not as familiar with what’s happening in Texas).

 

[lbfrost]

Of course not. We should reject what the consensus of experts say and listen to one dude who runs an ER in Texas, particularly if it conforms to our preconceived notions

If you look at the data this really isn’t all that surprising. Cases and infections have been exploding for the last three weeks, meanwhile, there is no uptick in deaths, hospitalization length is decreasing, and discharge % is increasing

 

[Rick Dawg 11]

Here’s the problem with that. The rejection of “one dude who runs an ER” (and the characterization of him in that manner) is equally driven by preconceived notions.

I would put more stock into his account of what is happening in Texas hospitals than the supposed “consensus of experts” (who don’t quite seem to have arrived at a “consensus” and who are probably not as familiar with what’s happening in Texas).

Spot on.

 

[Rick Dawg 11]

At this point, I’m going to go ahead and assume everyone’s personal ideology greatly affects their views on this virus (at least when talking about US citizens).

Oh and the EU has banned travel into its countries by Americans, so that’s how our allies are viewing us right now.

Including the “experts.”

 

[Rick Dawg 11]

Yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. Nothing to see here. And kudos to those with the courage to let us know that the virus that has killed 125,000+ Americans in four months is really no big deal.

 

[doofusdawg]

Of course not. We should reject what the consensus of experts say and listen to one dude who runs an ER in Texas, particularly if it conforms to our preconceived notions

another scientific consensus and conformity is not the best way for you to win an argument even if it is an attempt at snark. You are way too smart to believe this shit you have been posting lately but we all understand you have to make a living.

 

[rectomo]

What if the REAL total is less than half that?
I say that because I am friends with two ER doctors - one in Atlanta (Vandy med school grad) and one in Dallas (Emory med school grad).
They don't know each other to my knowledge so I highly doubt their response is anything but their own.
Both say the same thing - the death count is VASTLY overstated due to a long list of reasons.
But they will tell you that it is at least half what the number being thrown around really is.
It's hard for me to hear that from two intelligent, measured, and both extremely honest people and not believe there is something to it.

Oh and both say social distancing is not the answer - herd immunity is........

Hmmm. I know several doctors myself. My brother-in-law's best friend is head of spinal surgery at Penn and has introduced me to a few folks over the years. The ones I communicate with include one from Harvard, a couple from Johns Hopkins, and another from Northeastern. They all say that the numbers are undercounted - perhaps by as much as 50% - and that social distancing helps. Not trying to be contrary, but if you are going to mention one perspective it is only fair to report another.

This I know for a fact - the world count may be considerably underreported. Two people I have met died in Mexico (Guadalajara) from Covid-19. The family was told to their face that the government was asking doctors to change the cause of death to "keep panic down". The word is this is common practice in Mexico and Brazil.

 

[IBDawgfan82]

Yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. Nothing to see here. And kudos to those with the courage to let us know that the virus that has killed 125,000+ Americans in four months is really no big deal.

I can’t speak to his other points but I can tell you from ground level evidence in Georgia that coronavirus infections are now less severe and of shorter duration than early on. So I wouldn’t say “no big deal” but it’s certainly less of a big deal than it was say 3 months ago.

 

[TheRedRain]

Hmmm. I know several doctors myself. My brother-in-law's best friend is head of spinal surgery at Penn and has introduced me to a few folks over the years. The ones I communicate with include one from Harvard, a couple from Johns Hopkins, and another from Northeastern. They all say that the numbers are undercounted - perhaps by as much as 50% - and that social distancing helps. Not trying to be contrary, but if you are going to mention one perspective it is only fair to report another.

This I know for a fact - the world count may be considerably underreported. Two people I have met died in Mexico (Guadalajara) from Covid-19. The family was told to their face that the government was asking doctors to change the cause of death to "keep panic down". The word is this is common practice in Mexico and Brazil.

Think about this... for a long time, China claimed their total was in the mid 80,000 range. We’ll probably reach the mid 80k total in a few days here in Georgia, which wasn’t particularly hard hit.

The only thing more worthless than the confirmed case count is trying to compare ours to different countries.

 

[litedawg1968]

At this point, I’m going to go ahead and assume everyone’s personal ideology greatly affects their views on this virus (at least when talking about US citizens).

Oh and the EU has banned travel into its countries by Americans, so that’s how our allies are viewing us right now.

And as soon as those allies need something they will come running to the US for help, so wgas?

 

[TivoliDawg]

Yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. Nothing to see here. And kudos to those with the courage to let us know that the virus that has killed 125,000+ Americans in four months is really no big deal.

To be fair, I think this is a bifurcated disease. If you are under 55 and healthy immune system, there little to worry about.
Compromised immune system or over 65, need to isolate and stay home.
The idea that we shut the economy down so that 25 year old cooks and servers are now unemployed is crazy. Crazy in hindsight, right move at the time.
Let’s re-open - older folks need to isolate. Disease is very deadly for them.

 

[rectomo]

So are you saying that we should believe everything the media shoves down our throat without questioning their conclusions, much less their motives?

I think you need to be very careful with the "media" tag and be certain you are attacking "them" for not being factual rather than publishing something that is contrary to what you believe. Bias is one thing, facts are another. I like to use the example of NPR. They have an impeccable reputation for journalistic accuracy but media observation and analysists consider them center left. Obviously it would be ideal if they had no bias and were completely factual, but in the absence of perfection I will always take factually accuracy over bias, from either side of the political spectrum.

If you want plain, vanilla reporting Reuters does about as good a job as anyone. AP I think is slightly left though most media observers consider them "center". BBC, The Economist, The Wall Street Journal (news reporting) and Foreign Affairs all are factual and about as "center" as you can get. If you are getting your news from MSNBC/Fox or Huffington/Breitbart...well, you deserve what you get.

 

[CalienteDawg]

I hope that all is true but there are a few yellow flags in that email that give me pause.

 

[FishwaterDawg]

I think you need to be very careful with the "media" tag and be certain you are attacking "them" for not being factual rather than publishing something that is contrary to what you believe. Bias is one thing, facts are another. I like to use the example of NPR. They have an impeccable reputation for journalistic accuracy but media observation and analysists consider them center left. Obviously it would be ideal if they had no bias and were completely factual, but in the absence of perfection I will always take factually accuracy over bias, from either side of the political spectrum.

If you want plan, vanilla reporting Reuters does about as good a job as anyone. AP I think is slightly left though most media observers consider them "center". BBC, The Economist, The Wall Street Journal (news reporting) and Foreign Affairs all are factual and about as "center" as you can get. If you are getting your news from MSNBC/Fox or Huffington/Breitbart...well, you deserve what you get.

This is the only statistic you need to know.

 

[lbfrost]

Link on what the data is *actually* telling us and how there’s a major data illiteracy problem that is driving really bad decisions

Link that takes a deeper dive into the data

 

[wstugamd]

What if the REAL total is less than half that?
I say that because I am friends with two ER doctors - one in Atlanta (Vandy med school grad) and one in Dallas (Emory med school grad).
They don't know each other to my knowledge so I highly doubt their response is anything but their own.
Both say the same thing - the death count is VASTLY overstated due to a long list of reasons.
But they will tell you that it is at least half what the number being thrown around really is.
It's hard for me to hear that from two intelligent, measured, and both extremely honest people and not believe there is something to it.

Oh and both say social distancing is not the answer - herd immunity is........

I'm a primary care physician, and this is consistent with what I'm seeing.

The safest protection from radiation is not lead or iodine but distance. Sure if you must be exposed lead is useful, but only distance from radiation is a guarantee. On social distancing the best way to prevent from getting infected is distance. Cut off all contact with the outside. It will work. The at risk population should be doing this (not so extreme they can't get supplies), but the healthy can't live this way and should be getting the virus and building immunity. Herd immunity is the solution, and shut downs only prolong this from happening.

So tired of the Covid is terrible/ not bad and mask / no mask arguments

From my practice many patients have expressed the government has cried wolf too many times.

Of course not. We should reject what the consensus of experts say and listen to one dude who runs an ER in Texas, particularly if it conforms to our preconceived notions

We should listen to anyone with a rational thought. Experts can be wrong. They can be challenged. I'm not saying to dismiss the experts, but their words aren't Gospel truth either. Everyone should investigate and learn for themselves. If we could have honest conversations we may learn something from each other. That is not a shot at you DD. I'm speaking to everyone here and to our nation.

 

[rectomo]

This is the only statistic you need to know.

Excellent reporting done from other countries from people that are neither. Plenty of reporters in the US that are independents.

Just because you are a Republican or a Democrat does not necessitate bias. Sam Donaldson (as an example) was a life long Republican that was hated by Carter supporters and Reagan supporters alike. I also respected him for that.

 

[ugafish]

That’s a nice straw man.

Nobody is saying that “everything is fine”... it may be the case that the situation in Texas isn’t as bad as it’s being portrayed. Does a Texas hospital executive not have the credibility to reach this conclusion?

ER chain sounds like a doc in a box rather than a hospital.

 

[MedicalDawg]

Some interesting points:
**Many of the people being tested would not have even met the criteria for testing back in March and April
**Most cases are mild (allergy or cold-like) and resolve in 2-3 days
**Most hospitalized cases never go to the ICU. ICU is being filled by people with other serious conditions that delayed going to hospital because of fear.
**Discharge planners are being pressured to list COVID as primary diagnosis (every person admitted to hospital, no matter the reason, is being tested)

View embedded media

If you'd like an idea of what COVID in Texas is really like, read this: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/com...ek-as-coronavirus-cases-spike-in-north-texas/
I can personally confirm the accuracy of this story and Dr Leveno has been a leader in Dallas throughout the pandemic.

As always, the devil is in the details:
1. We are (finally!) testing everyone who comes to the hospital. If you come with a broken leg and test positive for COVID, it'll be reported and will be on your discharge paperwork. This is not pressure or a conspiracy. This is completely normal. If you broke your leg and we found incidental kidney disease, it would be listed.
2. The COVID population is younger than the initial one. Some of this is the older patients are (hopefully) protecting themselves. The other part is that we d o not have to ration tests the same way.
3. Hospitalizations are going up, as is positivity rate. These are important metrics.
4. The locality is critically important. Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio are hot-spots. A rural hospital will have a very different prospective.

The goal is to stay open and stay safe. No one knows if the death count will increase as hospitalizations and cases do. Let's hope it won't, but clearly too early to declare victory...

Perhaps, we could go a day without a new COVID conspiracy thread. When will folks go back to being professional offensive coordinators?

 

[Nooga Dawg]

Of course not. We should reject what the consensus of experts say and listen to one dude who runs an ER in Texas, particularly if it conforms to our preconceived notions

I never said we should reject what the experts are saying - sadly very little of the information Americans receive is directly from the mouth of said experts.
Many times the info that we receive has been filtered through whatever lens the particular media outlet uses. I don't call them news outlets any longer because it is rarely news.
Yes there are some outlets that are better than others to be sure.
As for experts - they are human and they make mistakes, and have all through this fiasco.

Like I said in a post a couple of days ago - you and I will simply have to agree to disagree on this issue. You are firmly in the "stay at home until there is a vaccine" crowd, while I am firmly in the "if your not over 70 or preexisting conditions - get to work" crowd. I doubt very seriously that either will convince the other to switch sides.....

 

[TheRedRain]

ER chain sounds like a doc in a box rather than a hospital.

Maybe he is. I tend to think that you and others wouldn’t be minimizing his perspective if you agreed with it, though.

 

[rectomo]

Maybe he is. I tend to think that you and others wouldn’t be minimizing his perspective if you agreed with it, though.

Most have a tendency to do that these days.

 

[Rick Dawg 11]

I think you need to be very careful with the "media" tag and be certain you are attacking "them" for not being factual rather than publishing something that is contrary to what you believe. Bias is one thing, facts are another. I like to use the example of NPR. They have an impeccable reputation for journalistic accuracy but media observation and analysists consider them center left. Obviously it would be ideal if they had no bias and were completely factual, but in the absence of perfection I will always take factually accuracy over bias, from either side of the political spectrum.

If you want plain, vanilla reporting Reuters does about as good a job as anyone. AP I think is slightly left though most media observers consider them "center". BBC, The Economist, The Wall Street Journal (news reporting) and Foreign Affairs all are factual and about as "center" as you can get. If you are getting your news from MSNBC/Fox or Huffington/Breitbart...well, you deserve what you get.

“AP I think is slightly left though most media observers consider them "center.’”

 

[albanyga]

Of course not. We should reject what the consensus of experts say and listen to one dude who runs an ER in Texas, particularly if it conforms to our preconceived notions

Objection your honor, immaterial, irrelevant and the question calls for a conclusion which none are qualified to answer as an expert.

 

[rectomo]

“AP I think is slightly left though most media observers consider them "center.’”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/associated-press/

So here are three sites that measure media bias that place them in the center. I disagree and would list them as center/left. I would be curious to hear your opinion on why you find these evaluations Tyson-funny?

 

[sanforddawg11]

If you'd like an idea of what COVID in Texas is really like, read this: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/com...ek-as-coronavirus-cases-spike-in-north-texas/
I can personally confirm the accuracy of this story and Dr Leveno has been a leader in Dallas throughout the pandemic.

As always, the devil is in the details:
1. We are (finally!) testing everyone who comes to the hospital. If you come with a broken leg and test positive for COVID, it'll be reported and will be on your discharge paperwork. This is not pressure or a conspiracy. This is completely normal. If you broke your leg and we found incidental kidney disease, it would be listed.
2. The COVID population is younger than the initial one. Some of this is the older patients are (hopefully) protecting themselves. The other part is that we d o not have to ration tests the same way.
3. Hospitalizations are going up, as is positivity rate. These are important metrics.
4. The locality is critically important. Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio are hot-spots. A rural hospital will have a very different prospective.

The goal is to stay open and stay safe. No one knows if the death count will increase as hospitalizations and cases do. Let's hope it won't, but clearly too early to declare victory...

Perhaps, we could go a day without a new COVID conspiracy thread. When will folks go back to being professional offensive coordinators?

Sounds something like S Florida