Some naked dude coming in and shooting it up.
Damn cant even have some smoother covered hash at Waffle House w/o....
- Thread starter shonuff253
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Damn shame. Glad somebody stepped up to take the weapon away.
Hey, the weapon has nothing to do with the folks being killed, just ask all the gun nuts on here.
He could have killed more with a pistol. The rifle was easier to wrestle away from him, but you wouldn't know a rifle from a mop.
I'm not a gun nut so I'll bite. Explain your position so that I'm not putting words in your mouth with my response.
I'm a gun nut, so I'll explain: He thinks AR-15s and high capacity mags cause more deaths every time a lunatic liberal on Ritalin goes on a shooting spree; he is correct, they are killing machines. What he and his ideological brother, the child Hogg, are dull-normally naive about is that they think you just demand that your government (mommy) should pass a law, and poof, these awful things will disappear and the killings will stop.
There are too many of them, no law will decrease their availability. We already had such a law for 10 years, did nothing, zero. It would do less than zero this time around because there are so many more of them out there. What it WILL do is divert time, money, and energy from finding solutions to the problem which might actually work. You know, they made Hogg and his comrades start carrying clear back packs, which is a GREAT idea, simple, cheap, effective. Not a total solution by any measure, but helpful. You'd think those stupid little shitasses were being beaten with rubber hoses. At a collective cry-in, they bemoaned the invasion of their privacy. They want fairy dust, a magic solution from their giant tit and blanket in Washington.
If you want to know what they really want, look no further than the doddering fool John Stevens, who last week spilled the liberal beans by advocating repeal of the 2nd, sending the entire communist half of the country apoplectic and handing the NRA confirmation of what they have been arguing for years: The fools want an unarmed populace.
There are too many of them, no law will decrease their availability. We already had such a law for 10 years, did nothing, zero. It would do less than zero this time around because there are so many more of them out there. What it WILL do is divert time, money, and energy from finding solutions to the problem which might actually work. You know, they made Hogg and his comrades start carrying clear back packs, which is a GREAT idea, simple, cheap, effective. Not a total solution by any measure, but helpful. You'd think those stupid little shitasses were being beaten with rubber hoses. At a collective cry-in, they bemoaned the invasion of their privacy. They want fairy dust, a magic solution from their giant tit and blanket in Washington.
If you want to know what they really want, look no further than the doddering fool John Stevens, who last week spilled the liberal beans by advocating repeal of the 2nd, sending the entire communist half of the country apoplectic and handing the NRA confirmation of what they have been arguing for years: The fools want an unarmed populace.
Why doesn’t anyone ask how the guy got his hands on bath salts or whatever the hell he was on? Why is the conversation always so narrow?
The dope he was on is called “liberal.” It has now been revealed he was arrested for trying to jump the White House fence to kill Trump. His guns were seized but subsequently were given back, including the one used in the Waffle House murders. We don’t even enforce existing laws and people are whining for new laws which also won’t work.
If only one of us gun nuts with cc had been there, prolly only 2 deaths, the first shot of his and him. smh at liberal fools that want to make us all unprotected targets.
NY Post has it. Looks like two black men, one black woman, one Hispanic man. You can always count on conservative mainstream media. (just elbowing you). https://nypost.com/2018/04/22/names-of-victims-in-deadly-waffle-house-shooting-released/
I hope this was just a lunatic and not race motivated. The levels of evil, lunacy, and hate are off the charts in this country.
God please rest their souls and comfort the families.
Thanks. Didn't check there. But I hope not either. Last thing we need. Regardless of what side of the fence you're on, this place is getting crazy. Liberal, far right, I'm just sick of this shit. I worry more about my kids. They don't have the same worries I did at their age.
Yeah, and their worries are real, but I think they're magnified by the 24/7 media, which makes its money off hate and sensationalism. I'm sick of it, too. Centrists have been sucked to the two lunatic fringes by the two lunatic fringe media wings.
Dead Duck, you actually said "He is correct" to a portion of my post, I almost fell off my chair.
I recognize that we disagree on what to do about the problems that the AR-15 present to society, but you are the first "gun nut" to acknowledge that the AR-15 is an awful killing machine.
Now, how do we get rid of them, I recognize that we can't just pass a law and they automatically go away, but over time, something has to be done.
I recognize that we disagree on what to do about the problems that the AR-15 present to society, but you are the first "gun nut" to acknowledge that the AR-15 is an awful killing machine.
Now, how do we get rid of them, I recognize that we can't just pass a law and they automatically go away, but over time, something has to be done.
Alright everyone calm down. Let's just wait to get David "Camera" Hogg's opinion on this this before we decide how to think.
If thats what you want to do. But I dont think this has anything to do with a school shooting.
Their worries arent magnified by the media and neither are mine. All you have to do is just look around.... People act different, treat you differently. Its just a personal observation but .....
I really didnt want to get into a left or right deal. Whatever floats your boat though
Well, anybody who owns one or knows anything about them knows they are a killing machine. So is a single shot 12 gauge, but an AR-15 is more effective.
"how do we get rid of them?": You don't, you can't, you never will, you do not have a snowball's chance in Hell. And if the fairy dust magic DID work, you can do just as much damage in most situations with pistols and high caps.
We execute people for murder, and that doesn't slow them down. Have you not noticed how much damage can be done with a rental truck? Wasn't it 86 dead in Paris? Hard to do that with an AR, but the nut in Vegas came close. What if he had showered that crowd with Sarin or Anthrax.
Quit wasting your time worrying about ARs and concentrate on something which might work, and work soon, like protecting the children, whether they like it or not. Lock the damned doors, put police or troops, maybe retired military, at all entrances. Have better plans, quit putting windows in steel doors, put better locking devices on doors inside classrooms.
Even if you turn a school into Fort Knox, and magically make all ARs, AKs, FALs, SKSs, UZIs, etc., etc, etc, vanish, what will you do when a crazy kid waits for the final bell and plows a box van through the kids milling around at the bus stop?
Your answer is always something like "Well, you've got to start somewhere." Well, why not start by not wasting time and effort on a feel-good law that will do nothing to protect the kids?
Final thoughts, at least from me on this subject, I guess I'm not willing to throw in the towel just yet and say there is nothing that can ever be done about these awful weapons. Granted, this may be an extremely naive position to take, but I hope over time someone can figure out a way to get these weapons out of the hands of the general population.
Just my two cents, have a great day everyone.
Just my two cents, have a great day everyone.
22 hours later and I didn't get a direct answer. That says more about the argument than labeling (looking at you @deadduckdawg ).
Liberals are not the reason bad people do bad things, bad people are. It sounds like dad gave the weapons back. Perhaps dad is a gun nut who didn't believe his son should have lost his weapons despite getting in real trouble. Not many liberals who are anti-gun are supplying weapons so I doubt this is exclusively a liberal problem.
That said, I agree with the gist of what deadduckdawg has said about weapons and security in the several posts on this thread.
I asked for @dawgfood0612 to explain his position in a non-confrontational manner such that we can properly dissect it with logic and reason, not labels or political attacks. Since he didn't address my post directly after so much time yet was able to post other thoughts, I can only assume there's not much logic and reason behind the comment I replied.
I'll reply directly to his other comments.
Liberals are not the reason bad people do bad things, bad people are. It sounds like dad gave the weapons back. Perhaps dad is a gun nut who didn't believe his son should have lost his weapons despite getting in real trouble. Not many liberals who are anti-gun are supplying weapons so I doubt this is exclusively a liberal problem.
That said, I agree with the gist of what deadduckdawg has said about weapons and security in the several posts on this thread.
I asked for @dawgfood0612 to explain his position in a non-confrontational manner such that we can properly dissect it with logic and reason, not labels or political attacks. Since he didn't address my post directly after so much time yet was able to post other thoughts, I can only assume there's not much logic and reason behind the comment I replied.
I'll reply directly to his other comments.
What needs to be done about AR15s that's not done to all other legal firearms? Are you a gun bigot?
I mean if someone killed 4 people with a .38 pistol does it make things better than them being killed by an AR15? Help me out here.
The guy who wrestled the rifle away from the nutcase is really something. His comments were really great but I particularly liked his stating he knew the guy was going to kill him, so he decided to make him work for it. Big cojones, saved some lives including his own. I hope something good happens for him.
Sorry for the delay, busy day at work, only had a couple of times to look at the Chat.
If you look at my previous posts on this subject, my entire line of thought has been how to reduce the number of casualties in a mass shooting. Quite frankly, this line of thought does not apply to the Waffle House situation as it was a smaller setting and not as many folks. My basic point has been and remains, in a mass shooting, if there are no AR-15's being used, the body count will be less.
The other point has to do with utility, if we ban everything that causes mass casualties than we won't have any trucks to deliver goods, and no airplanes for transport. Thus, a society needs to look at items and determine if the good they provide outweighs the bad. I know of no positive attributes to an AR-15, just that it is a killing machine (in the words of Deadduck).
As far as pistols and hunting rifles are concerned, I believe they provide some positive aspects to society in terms of protection, sport, etc. so the general population should have a right to possess these items. But an AR-15, you might as well allow someone to own a nuclear bomb, remember bombs don't kill, people do.
Fire away.
If you look at my previous posts on this subject, my entire line of thought has been how to reduce the number of casualties in a mass shooting. Quite frankly, this line of thought does not apply to the Waffle House situation as it was a smaller setting and not as many folks. My basic point has been and remains, in a mass shooting, if there are no AR-15's being used, the body count will be less.
The other point has to do with utility, if we ban everything that causes mass casualties than we won't have any trucks to deliver goods, and no airplanes for transport. Thus, a society needs to look at items and determine if the good they provide outweighs the bad. I know of no positive attributes to an AR-15, just that it is a killing machine (in the words of Deadduck).
As far as pistols and hunting rifles are concerned, I believe they provide some positive aspects to society in terms of protection, sport, etc. so the general population should have a right to possess these items. But an AR-15, you might as well allow someone to own a nuclear bomb, remember bombs don't kill, people do.
Fire away.
https://uga.forums.rivals.com/threa...hash-at-waffle-house-w-o.317285/#post-3227790
"Final thoughts, at least from me on this subject."
Goodgawdamighty, you damned near made it 4 whole hours.
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First you have to determine if that's a valid and obtainable goal, to reduce the number of casualties in a mass shooting. Short of everyone wearing bulletproof armor at all times, there's not a good way to do it. Being that casualty rate from bullet wounds by caliber is not affected by the shooter's intent, I assume you really want to reduce the number of mass shootings.
You focus on AR-15s because they are popular and therefore a tool of choice for many lately. Okay, ban and confiscate them, but then what? You can't stop there as you must get rid of every type of gun capable of carrying out a mass shooting. That includes pistols and hunting rifles.
You can't cherry pick the basis of your claims. Waffle House counts. Just because it was 4 deaths doesn't mean you discard the incident because it's not sensational enough for the narrative. It just proves AR-15s aren't machine guns and whipping one out doesn't equate to a nuclear bomb and instant death for everyone in the blast radius (and well beyond in the case of the bomb).
So you can either define the acceptable amount of deaths per shooting, or acknowledge that the only way to prevent shootings is total confiscation of all firearms.
As for utility, interesting that the number of vehicle ramming attacks has grown so much lately. It seems that people worldwide are moving to ramming as a mass casualty method that is much easier to pull off than a shooting. Far less scrutiny in obtaining a vehicle and no threat of a ban or funny looks for driving around. Looking at Toronto today, 9 deaths and 16 injuries without a gun being fired sounds scary as heck to me. At least a person was able to disarm the WH shooter. Not sure people can do much to stop a vehicle.
This brief exercise has invalidated your position on AR-15s in reducing casualties in mass shootings. I also debunked the notion of even reducing casualties in mass shootings regardless of the weapon used. The problem is much bigger than AR-15s as those are really a minor detail. Of course you are welcome to continue focusing on AR-15s, but once you see that eliminating them would have no impact on mass casualty events, what then?
Well thought out, reasonable. We need to spend our time focusing on solutions. The answer is many-, many-, multi-faceted. There is no single, simple solution. Effectively enforcing our existing gun laws would be a good start. And then there are other gun regulations which might help.
The Toronto thing is scary as heck to me, as well. We have to think outside the box. 12 months of debate and a silly AR ban is not going to fix this. We better start worrying about our homegrown lunatics and the ones we are allowing to pour into our country. The world has gotten very violent. We better consider real solutions to protect the school kids, and not waste time worrying about what they want.
Violent video games and movies are contributing to the problem. So is the deterioration of the family structure and the religious foundation. So is the erosion of unification in the country, diversity forced down our throats. Kids being drugged by their parents and teachers and doctors for squirming. They used to paddle our asses for what they now call ADDHT, or whatever. Paddling worked on me. Got my first drugs from a guy named Denver.
Couple of thoughts, first Cmon Deadduckdawg, Dawg n IT called me out for not responding to his post after I said this would be my last post, so that is why I gave that response.
Next, I went and researched all the shootings in the US since 2010 that had over 10 deaths. Here are the facts:
2012-Aurora Cinema-12 deaths. Shooter had a shotgun, and handgun, and a semi-auto rifle with a 100 magazine capacity. He got off 6 rounds from the shotgun, 5 from the handgun, and 65 from the semi-auto. Guess which one caused the most deaths?
2012-Sandy Hook-27 deaths. Shooter had an AR-15.
2013-Washington Navy Yard-12 deaths. Shooter had a shotgun and a pistol, not a semi-auto rifle.
2014-San Bernadino-14 deaths. Shooter had multiple semi-auto rifles.
2016-Orlando nightclub-49 deaths. Shooter had a Sig Saur semi auto rifle, and a Glock semi-auto pistol.
2017-Vegas-58 deaths. Shooter had 14 AR-15's and 8 AR-10's
2017-Sutherland Baptist Church-26 deaths. Shooter had a Rogar AR-556 semi-auto rifle.
2018-Stoneman Douglas-17 deaths. Shooter had a AR-15.
Guess it's just a coincidence that all of the deadliest mass shootings except one involved AR type semi auto rifles.
One last item, you pointed out that worldwide, van attacks are on the rise. Of course they are, you can't buy anything close to an assault weapon in Canada, France, or the UK
Next, I went and researched all the shootings in the US since 2010 that had over 10 deaths. Here are the facts:
2012-Aurora Cinema-12 deaths. Shooter had a shotgun, and handgun, and a semi-auto rifle with a 100 magazine capacity. He got off 6 rounds from the shotgun, 5 from the handgun, and 65 from the semi-auto. Guess which one caused the most deaths?
2012-Sandy Hook-27 deaths. Shooter had an AR-15.
2013-Washington Navy Yard-12 deaths. Shooter had a shotgun and a pistol, not a semi-auto rifle.
2014-San Bernadino-14 deaths. Shooter had multiple semi-auto rifles.
2016-Orlando nightclub-49 deaths. Shooter had a Sig Saur semi auto rifle, and a Glock semi-auto pistol.
2017-Vegas-58 deaths. Shooter had 14 AR-15's and 8 AR-10's
2017-Sutherland Baptist Church-26 deaths. Shooter had a Rogar AR-556 semi-auto rifle.
2018-Stoneman Douglas-17 deaths. Shooter had a AR-15.
Guess it's just a coincidence that all of the deadliest mass shootings except one involved AR type semi auto rifles.
One last item, you pointed out that worldwide, van attacks are on the rise. Of course they are, you can't buy anything close to an assault weapon in Canada, France, or the UK
120,000 firearms murders during that period and you’re wringing your hands over those pissant numbers?
Coincidence vs correlation vs causation.
I've already suggested that AR-15s are simply popular, therefore they show up in a lot of recent mass shootings. This is a copy cat world so since mass shooters tend to only do it once, they probably latch onto what previous shooters have been glorified to use.
Why start with 2010 listing events and deaths?
#1 and #2 were recent with a large number of people concentrated in a small target area. It's interesting that #3 involved pistols and targets spread out at a major college campus. More deaths than elementary kids in a more confined configuration at Sandy Hook.
As you continue to go down the list, notice that it doesn't seem to matter who the victims are, the location of the crime, or the type of weapons involved. Also, the most efficient killings (high death to injury ratio) seem to be mostly over 20 years ago. Interesting that for the killing machine that the AR-15 is supposed to be, it's recent use has been pretty inefficient.
The list shows that high death and injury counts are as possible with pistols as rifles. It also shows that mass casualty shootings having been happening for a long time.
This does show a significant increase in frequency of large casualty mass shootings. Of the 26 shootings listed, 9 occurred since 2010 and 14 since 2000.
Not really seeing where any of this points to "AR type" weapons as the cause.
As for not being able to buy "assault weapons" in Canada, France, and the UK, would you not expect the same shift to alternative means in the USA with the same bans in place? If not, why?
Canada and France are covered up with full auto rifles. Illegal, of course.Coincidence vs correlation vs causation.
I've already suggested that AR-15s are simply popular, therefore they show up in a lot of recent mass shootings. This is a copy cat world so since mass shooters tend to only do it once, they probably latch onto what previous shooters have been glorified to use.
Why start with 2010 listing events and deaths?
#1 and #2 were recent with a large number of people concentrated in a small target area. It's interesting that #3 involved pistols and targets spread out at a major college campus. More deaths than elementary kids in a more confined configuration at Sandy Hook.
As you continue to go down the list, notice that it doesn't seem to matter who the victims are, the location of the crime, or the type of weapons involved. Also, the most efficient killings (high death to injury ratio) seem to be mostly over 20 years ago. Interesting that for the killing machine that the AR-15 is supposed to be, it's recent use has been pretty inefficient.
The list shows that high death and injury counts are as possible with pistols as rifles. It also shows that mass casualty shootings having been happening for a long time.
This does show a significant increase in frequency of large casualty mass shootings. Of the 26 shootings listed, 9 occurred since 2010 and 14 since 2000.
Not really seeing where any of this points to "AR type" weapons as the cause.
As for not being able to buy "assault weapons" in Canada, France, and the UK, would you not expect the same shift to alternative means in the USA with the same bans in place? If not, why?
And, although I stipulated the AR is a killing machine, it is more accurately a wounding machine. The very small caliber .223/5.56mm was adopted by the US and subsequently NATO because of its wounding, not killing, propensity. If you kill a combatant, he just lies there dead. If you wound one, he lies there screaming and bleeding, demoralizing his buddies, and requiring two additional enemy troops to haul him off. There is also the benefit of a soldier carrying 2 or 3 times as many rounds as the previous 7.62/.308 standard infantry round.
Interesting to note the Soviets made a nearly identical move in their AK platform.
There would likely be more dead in the Waffle House if the guy had any old 9mm pistol and a couple 15 round mags. Might have even surpassed the toll of the truck assault weapon today in Toronto.
Really interesting post. Complex problem, complex solution, particularly if you consider the assault truck portion of the problem.Coincidence vs correlation vs causation.
I've already suggested that AR-15s are simply popular, therefore they show up in a lot of recent mass shootings. This is a copy cat world so since mass shooters tend to only do it once, they probably latch onto what previous shooters have been glorified to use.
Why start with 2010 listing events and deaths?
#1 and #2 were recent with a large number of people concentrated in a small target area. It's interesting that #3 involved pistols and targets spread out at a major college campus. More deaths than elementary kids in a more confined configuration at Sandy Hook.
As you continue to go down the list, notice that it doesn't seem to matter who the victims are, the location of the crime, or the type of weapons involved. Also, the most efficient killings (high death to injury ratio) seem to be mostly over 20 years ago. Interesting that for the killing machine that the AR-15 is supposed to be, it's recent use has been pretty inefficient.
The list shows that high death and injury counts are as possible with pistols as rifles. It also shows that mass casualty shootings having been happening for a long time.
This does show a significant increase in frequency of large casualty mass shootings. Of the 26 shootings listed, 9 occurred since 2010 and 14 since 2000.
Not really seeing where any of this points to "AR type" weapons as the cause.
As for not being able to buy "assault weapons" in Canada, France, and the UK, would you not expect the same shift to alternative means in the USA with the same bans in place? If not, why?
It's noteworthy to me that this government seems immobilized by the problem. Case in point, bump stocks are still being sold 7 months after the Vegas massacre shined the light of day on them. What the hell is our government doing? Even the NRA said ban them.
Such a ban on the production of bump stocks might have limited the number in circulation soon after Vegas. Now, there is no telling how many more have entered circulation in the past 7 months. How could we be any more inept?
The regulations and decisions coming out of BATFE have become incomprehensible. They create loopholes, rather than close them. They should have never OKed bump stocks. Another weird decision to me concerns short barreled rifles, which have always required registration and special permitting. Now, BATFE says a brace, instead of a full butt stock, maintains a pistol's status as a pistol, rather than a SBR. This is fine with me, I love them, think they are great for personal protection at home. But in all honesty, this is a SBR, the brace can be shouldered:
So, anyway, the point is we have a rudderless BATFE and an inept government and a bunch of democrats who want a feel-good-look-what-we-did law and a bunch of others who would like to use the threat to high schoolers to disarm the populace. Meanwhile nothing gets done, the school doors stay propped open.
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