I've always been intrigued in politics, but we've got a lot of older members here who've been around for a while, that could teach me some things.
That being said, who looked good?
That being said, who looked good?
Dawgs, who won the debate?
- Thread starter PaulMaharry
- Start date
My guy Paul will probably never win a debate. I think Trump and Carson will lose ground. Fiorina will make the most ground. And Cruz, Christie and Rubio (second most behind Fiorina) will surge.
I thought Rubio was amazing. Clear and concise with his answers. Paul and Carson didn't have enough emphasis, sounded way too nonchalant. I think that will hurt them.
Well, it's a catch 22 for those guys. Paul gets a little strident when he tries to project strongly. Carson would come across as a fish out of water... as his general appeal is humility and being soft spoken. What he didn't do this time, that served him well last time, was his well timed humor. It brought levity to a far too serious and hostile stage.
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Rubio is clear and concise, but too stiff and formal IMO, it gives him a college debate team vibe.
Fiorina comes across as competent, level headed and not a fos politician.
Full disclosure. Fell asleep during an hour of it, the middle hour. But from what I saw:
Thought Rubio was good, Fiorina was precise, however, I don't agree with a lot of what she says, Christie did good, Jeb........did better than last one, however, he looked scared the whole night. JMO. Was surprised about that. Walker, Huckabee are going NO WHERE, Carson didn't help or hurt his chances........Paul is not a good debater which to be fair, this wasn't a "debate", imo, in the real sense. This more of a "here's your chance on national tv to take shots at the big bully" (Trump) Like Carson, Trump didn't help or hurt his chances either. The people that want Trump don't care how he did. Kasich, when given an opportunity, which wasn't much (for most of them actually) knows foreign affairs and dealing with adversaries. Or seemed to.
I was surprised when Jeb made the remark his brother kept us safe, Trump or somebody didn't remind him, no he didn't........the biggest tragedy of our time, 911, happened under your brother's watch.
I'd guess when polls and pundits come out, Fiorina will get the most accolades. She DID come off as the adult in the room.
Thought Rubio was good, Fiorina was precise, however, I don't agree with a lot of what she says, Christie did good, Jeb........did better than last one, however, he looked scared the whole night. JMO. Was surprised about that. Walker, Huckabee are going NO WHERE, Carson didn't help or hurt his chances........Paul is not a good debater which to be fair, this wasn't a "debate", imo, in the real sense. This more of a "here's your chance on national tv to take shots at the big bully" (Trump) Like Carson, Trump didn't help or hurt his chances either. The people that want Trump don't care how he did. Kasich, when given an opportunity, which wasn't much (for most of them actually) knows foreign affairs and dealing with adversaries. Or seemed to.
I was surprised when Jeb made the remark his brother kept us safe, Trump or somebody didn't remind him, no he didn't........the biggest tragedy of our time, 911, happened under your brother's watch.
I'd guess when polls and pundits come out, Fiorina will get the most accolades. She DID come off as the adult in the room.
Anytime people pig pile on 1 person and that person is still standing at the end of the debate they have my vote. So I would say Trump. Both Drudge and Time have Trump as the 60%+ winner.
I liked most of them but the best points were made by Ted Cruz and Marc Rubio. I also liked Scott Walker.
The thing that is important to me is bringing back good middle class jobs and getting control of immigration. Trump is strong on those points. The reason I like Ted Cruz is he is pro-life and pro traditional marriage and makes strong stands for those.
The bottom line though is that we need someone strong enough to stand up to the Russians and Chinese and the other bad actors. Our Navy is down to 300 ships from 450 when I was in and it is what keeps us and our allies safe. We have Russian troops now in Syria, a bad nuclear deal with Iran who has sworn to blow up Israel and China cyber attacking us while taking all our jobs. So we need someone strong enough to deal with that. Trump is also the only one not bought by the special interests and corporations who make their money in China. So that is an important point.
I liked most of them but the best points were made by Ted Cruz and Marc Rubio. I also liked Scott Walker.
The thing that is important to me is bringing back good middle class jobs and getting control of immigration. Trump is strong on those points. The reason I like Ted Cruz is he is pro-life and pro traditional marriage and makes strong stands for those.
The bottom line though is that we need someone strong enough to stand up to the Russians and Chinese and the other bad actors. Our Navy is down to 300 ships from 450 when I was in and it is what keeps us and our allies safe. We have Russian troops now in Syria, a bad nuclear deal with Iran who has sworn to blow up Israel and China cyber attacking us while taking all our jobs. So we need someone strong enough to deal with that. Trump is also the only one not bought by the special interests and corporations who make their money in China. So that is an important point.
I think Kasich would be a hell of a Vice President. I don't think he has the backing to make a big run in terms of being POTUS.
Walker and Huckabee aren't going to make it, IMO. They didn't have much talk time, especially Huckabee only talking a total of 6 times, just for reference Trump spoke on 40 different occasions.
Paul has some awesome ideas, but the rest of the party doesn't quite agree with him. I could see them trying to push him out soon.
Fiorina made some great points tonight. She's not a politician, so her talk track is based on being closer to the people because of that. To be honest, I felt the furthest disconnect from her. She seems like she's too good for the regular folks of the world.
Walker and Huckabee aren't going to make it, IMO. They didn't have much talk time, especially Huckabee only talking a total of 6 times, just for reference Trump spoke on 40 different occasions.
Paul has some awesome ideas, but the rest of the party doesn't quite agree with him. I could see them trying to push him out soon.
Fiorina made some great points tonight. She's not a politician, so her talk track is based on being closer to the people because of that. To be honest, I felt the furthest disconnect from her. She seems like she's too good for the regular folks of the world.
Paul is so far out of it I'm not sure why he was there. He is a Libertarian to the hilt and though I share some of those ideas it is not practical in today's world for us to become isolationists and let the Russians and Chinese take over the world one hegenomous region at a time. We need to be a stabilizing force because no other western country has the resources to do so. As far as Carly goes she had a good sound bite on how to deter Putin but she is a major job outsourcer and her record at HP shows her to be a heartless killer of American Middle Class jobs. Because I am in this industry I have zero respect for that. So why elect someone with that record. Anyways, just my opinion.
The Donald does well because people LET him do well. It's not because he's making good points.
He constantly lies and brags and people think it's straight talk, people can be real DAs.
Jeb Bush mentioned Trump gave to his Florida campaign to try to influence Bush to allow casino gambling in Florida.
Trump denied it repeatedly last night. In fact The former President of The Florida Senate and Trump's head lobbyist both testified under oath Trump did try to get both The Senate and Gov Bush to allow full casino gambling so he could build a large casino hotel on an Indian reservation in south Florida.
Trump then pulled his usual ego trip line ''I promise you, if I'd wanted it, I would have gotten it''
This one exchange exposes both the liar and the massive ego we'd have in The White House.
I keep thinking people will realize what a jackass he is.
Who won? The American people and the Constitution. Every time it was mentioned that Congress needs to get off of its butt and act to overthrow or forestall these Clinton/Obama socialistic policies.
The last two lines of your post described obama perfectly.
It is already in the white house and it stinks of rotten flesh.
Trump might be just the man for you. He preaches pie in the sky nonsense and claims they're facts.
You can't have a serious discussion with some people.
Care to address my opinion on Trump ?
You seem to have anger issues. I'm guessing your philosophy class was an outright lie to start a thread. Why not just tell the truth. I imagine you like Hillary as she is a habitual liar as well.
You're so transparently FOS, what have I posted that suggest anger ?
I didn't start this thread OR the one on philosophy.
You are a sad and angry person who hates everything that is good and wants to spend her days making others as angry as yourself. You cannot express rational thought but try to act like an expert. You question but have no answers. Pitiful. Go get help.
You're a silly, self important blowhard who thinks he understands things he has little clue about. You're so convinced of yourself it bothers you that others disagree. So you keep hammering at them in a VAIN attempt to make them see as you do.
Carly won and it wasn't even close. Paul, Huckabee, Bush and Trump aren't electable and should just get off the stage. They are just taking up space and time. The fact that Trump and Hillary are the top two candidates says a lot about the electorate.
Actually there is a big difference between noninterventionism and isolationism. And if anyone believes our meddling (including arming any enemy of an enemy) hasn't created enemies that wouldn't otherwise exist, isn't paying attention.
Also, it's a huge misnomer that Libertarians (particularly the Pauls) don't believe in the strongest national defense possible. They do. They just believe a better allocation of our monies ans troops, should actually go to NATIONAL defense, protecting shipping lanes and not nation building.
Virtually everything people think Libertarians and the Pauls believe, is spoonfed by the establishment... because those ideas (particularly regarding our liberty) threaten it, at its foundation.
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CNN won as their obvious purpose was not a debate of the issues. Their intent was to produce entertainment value through choreographing a reality TV style ("Sparring with the Stars" if you like) side show to sell air time, advertising space and not least of all, self promotion. They won, hands down. Until this current gallery of GOP candidates is pared down to 4 or 5, we will not see or hear any substantive debate from any of them on stage together. And frankly, all we will hear from the Democrat side of politics will be cheap shot sniping and Monday morning quarterbacking (same with our "expert" media pundits).
Carly did well. However as I pointed out above she is a middle class job destroyer. So that alone makes her unelectable to me. If I were electing just on business skills she wouldn't be qualified. She has been fired from every position she has and tried to blame one of those firings last night on a Jewish executive. She is not electable as President. She might be a good VP though as the Republicans need a minority on the ticket badly. Trump is more electable than Hillary who should be in jail right now. Hillary clearly has broken the law and Petraeus was convicted on less. Will she squirm out of it with her connections. Probably. Bush - we don't really want to continue the Oligarchy do we. He is part of the establishment and MSNBC, CNN and others are trying hard to get him into front runner status. Paul has less than 1% of the Republican vote right now. My favorites are Trump and Cruz with Carson my pick for VP.
I agree with this. 3 hours was too long but I endured...11 candidates is way too many and that's not counting the undercard which I did watch. Lindsey Graham was golden.
Well...it is unfortunate that Paul is carrying the torch for this right now. The Libertarian Party needs someone with more charisma and unfortunately Paul reminds me of a rat. I know that sounds bad but every time I look at him that's what I see. He needs someone to work on his image. Regardless, I haven't seen a good defense of how Libertarians deal with the Chinas and Russias of the world. The absence of US or some other western leadership is what is causing a lot of our problems in the Middle East and Ukraine not to mention other places. Past failures by our government do not mean giving up. Passive policy is not going to cut it.
Again, the establishment has taken what's a very logical approach to confronting conflicts based on a cost benefit, and sold the idea that it's pacifism.
And sadly, most people judge politicians on other petty factors like voice and appearance (if it's not something manufactured by the establishment). I wonder if anyone would have voted for Romney if he didn't look like the Manchurian Reaganite. It probably would have been a bigger deterring factor than his unimpressive political record and history of serial waffling.
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I agree with your post on Rand Paul's looks. It is the problem Nixon had in losing to Kennedy and Perot in 1992. Some people don't have that look. Unfortunate but that is what our society is.
Why and how we fight wars has always been a cost benefit analysis approach for the elites. I have had to reconcile my discontent for how elites pick candidates to the overall stability of our country relative to modern history. The United States is a relatively stable country that has existed for over 240 years and before that another 100+ as part of the British Empire. So for 340+ years we have had a very good run of it. A revolution of sorts and a civil war were fought but other than that it has been wars against others. I highly recommend A People's History of the United States as one of my all time favorite books. The United States has continued the tradition of The British Empire in most respects. As much as I despise how the elites pick themselves to rule it has worked for the greater good of the United States. So that is what I struggle with. I am a firm believer in this country for all it's wrongs it has been a force for good. I do not dispute the things it has done but when I compare it to other countries it still comes out ahead over the course of the last 240 years. I certainly do not want to live in a China or Russia controlled world.
I think I like Trump because he is not a damn politician.
They are all crooks, get 1 term in and are set for life and do not follow the same laws as us "common folk."
Trump is setting the Washington insiders and the media on their asses and I enjoy seeing them bitch like little girls,
because he will not fall inline. If I had to choose a politician it would be Cruz. hillary and the left are America hating, self righteous
socialist that have brought this nation to it's knees. Look how Russia is slapping ole kerry and obama around. He doesn't play fair does he?
We are weakened and the rest of the world knows they can pull this crap because no one in the current administration will do any thing but complain.
Come on, tell us what you REALLY think.
Trump is endlessly self promoting. If that's not being a politician, I don't know what is. What he lacks is any sense of community and real commitment to that community, which is inherent in the best public servants. He is also a slave to his own ego, more so than any ''politician'' I've ever seen.
Trump is just like Obama. Obama got elected because people were sick of what was going on in Washington. Obama campaigned on change and surprised us all.
I'm afraid the same thing is going to happen with Trump. Another narcissistic egomaniac, that's all we need.
The amazing thing is the Republicans appear to be completely clueless as to why he is liked so much.
I think only a fool would think Trump is a conservative. His behavior tells a different story than his talk.
I'm afraid the same thing is going to happen with Trump. Another narcissistic egomaniac, that's all we need.
The amazing thing is the Republicans appear to be completely clueless as to why he is liked so much.
I think only a fool would think Trump is a conservative. His behavior tells a different story than his talk.
Best public servants -that is an oxymoron. You mean like Ted Kennedy, Barney Franks, hillary, obama, Newt, pelosi ,are those the kind of dear servants we have on our side? Yes obama is really doing great things for Chicago, one of the highest murder rates in the free world, rampant corruption, but that is just what he does best.
I don't hate the people, I hate what they did to their constituents while they were supposed to be serving us. If you notice I threw Newt in there as well. I do not trust either side, just identify more with the principles of conservatives, although I do not see much difference from either side. I am sure there are many examples of Republicans that have screwed their constituents as well.
I'm fairly cynical about the system. So I get the comments above. The only thing we can hang our hat on is that we have a stable country and opportunities that few in other countries have. Far from perfect though...far from perfect. However, we do have some basic rights still left. For how long, not sure? Anyways, love my country but hate the politicians. Not a good decent one in the bunch who is competent and would make a good president. That being said I lean to the outsiders and those who are not part of the establishment or so I think. Given the choice between a competent one I know is bad and a competent one I think might be bad I will choose the latter. That's how I vote. I can't think of one competent good one in either party so I'm going with competent and might be bad which is Trump. I like the fact he is not tied to the special interest money. I also like his bold and unPC talk which has been rammed down our throats for the last 30 years by the PC crowd. I also like the fact that he can stand up to the Russians and the Chinese. I like the fact that he says he will bring back jobs and fix our horrible trade deals. Is any of this true - maybe not but I know with the others they can't do the job. I think Trump can do the job quite well. Not a fan of some of his other policies but whose perfect. For me it is all about the economy.
I agree with your view above. That is why I like Trump as well, He definitely does not ride the fence, he will speak his mind.
We need a tough talking, take action LEADER (we have not had one of those in quite some time.)
The notion Trump can stand up to The Russians and Chinese comes from his boosting, nothing more.
Last night he lied about trying to buy Governor Bush to back full casino gambling in Florida. He then bragged if he'd wanted Casino gambling he would have gotten it. His arrogant boosting only shows his arrogance, he would likely have terrible relations with foreign countries. I would vote for 5 or more of the other debaters from last night before I'd vote for The Donald.
I think the man would be a horrible joke of a POTUS.
