Do we all really need a college degree to justify having any self esteem?

[Boost Assendahm]

What happened to make our teens and 20/30 somethings feel completely defeated and worthless without a college degree? Do we really need to review how the incomes of an electrician or plumber or carpenter or service technician compare to most liberal arts graduates' individual incomes? And we all certainly know that there are several college degrees that are considerably more worthless "on the street" than liberal arts degrees.

Our public educations system needs a complete over haul. Some of us love to point to Europe for the perfect models, but somehow we continue to disconnect from the way academics are managed in many European countries. Horrors! They determine for the student, based on his/her aptitude (more horrors, structured testing) and personal choices, by 7th or 8th grade whether he/she is university material, and that student's courses of study are adjusted accordingly toward vocational training or university training as dictated by the testing.

The costs of going to college are almost comical now. Seems the cost of learning has outpaced increases in medical care and pharmaceuticals lately. Who approved that increase and how? And we are deluged with TV ads and mailers from online colleges and universities no one ever heard of a few years back. Lots of money in schooling it seems as NONE of the online "campus" offerings are inexpensive either.

Anyone have any career advice for my 30 year old nephew still living at home with one course (that he has flunked 3 times) to go to complete his IT degree? Seems his having flunked Python three times has also dropped his GPA below minimum to qualify for graduation. Does it get any better? Please and thanks.....

 

[JungleRecon]

Go join the Guard or Reserves, learn an IT specialty, get a Clearance, write your on paycheck. We hire our guys out of the field, not college. We want guys who have worked in the field, hands on, with the equipment. Our success has been with Military, Tech school(ITT), college, In that order. He can work on that degree after he gets a job and starts making 100K. People just seem to attempt to climb the IT ladder backwards. The successes I have seen follow this route: Do IT work(military or low level job) get foot in door, attain technical proficiency, get degree while working, so that, you can advance into management, if that is what you want to do. We need people who know the systems, not people who know the protocols and theory.

 

[JungleRecon]

Not to mention, they pay you to learn those skills. Sometimes, very well, depending on bonuses attached to your selected job. A six year commitment also, sets you up for VA loans and all that stuff, pretty good benefits imo.

 

[socialcircledawg]

Go join the Guard or Reserves, learn an IT specialty, get a Clearance, write your on paycheck. We hire our guys out of the field, not college. We want guys who have worked in the field, hands on, with the equipment. Our success has been with Military, Tech school(ITT), college, In that order. He can work on that degree after he gets a job and starts making 100K. People just seem to attempt to climb the IT ladder backwards. The successes I have seen follow this route: Do IT work(military or low level job) get foot in door, attain technical proficiency, get degree while working, so that, you can advance into management, if that is what you want to do. We need people who know the systems, not people who know the protocols and theory.

yeah, i actually agree with that. has been my experience as well. i started in IT with 2 degrees, but it didn't mean anything until i knew the technical portion down cold

 

[StoneColdKillerDawg]

Go join the Guard or Reserves, learn an IT specialty, get a Clearance, write your on paycheck. We hire our guys out of the field, not college. We want guys who have worked in the field, hands on, with the equipment. Our success has been with Military, Tech school(ITT), college, In that order. He can work on that degree after he gets a job and starts making 100K. People just seem to attempt to climb the IT ladder backwards. The successes I have seen follow this route: Do IT work(military or low level job) get foot in door, attain technical proficiency, get degree while working, so that, you can advance into management, if that is what you want to do. We need people who know the systems, not people who know the protocols and theory.

Agreed. I'll add on that programming/coding work (i.e. Python, etc) is not the way to go. He'll find himself unemployed 3-5 years after his first job because they'll offshore it or bring in another recent grad instead of paying his promotion. The other half of the equation is understanding the process that the system supports. We can damn near train a monkey to configure. The folks that are successful know both the business and technology side of the equation.

 

[jcddawg]

What happened to make our teens and 20/30 somethings feel completely defeated and worthless without a college degree? Do we really need to review how the incomes of an electrician or plumber or carpenter or service technician compare to most liberal arts graduates' individual incomes? And we all certainly know that there are several college degrees that are considerably more worthless "on the street" than liberal arts degrees.

Our public educations system needs a complete over haul. Some of us love to point to Europe for the perfect models, but somehow we continue to disconnect from the way academics are managed in many European countries. Horrors! They determine for the student, based on his/her aptitude (more horrors, structured testing) and personal choices, by 7th or 8th grade whether he/she is university material, and that student's courses of study are adjusted accordingly toward vocational training or university training as dictated by the testing.

The costs of going to college are almost comical now. Seems the cost of learning has outpaced increases in medical care and pharmaceuticals lately. Who approved that increase and how? And we are deluged with TV ads and mailers from online colleges and universities no one ever heard of a few years back. Lots of money in schooling it seems as NONE of the online "campus" offerings are inexpensive either.

Anyone have any career advice for my 30 year old nephew still living at home with one course (that he has flunked 3 times) to go to complete his IT degree? Seems his having flunked Python three times has also dropped his GPA below minimum to qualify for graduation. Does it get any better? Please and thanks.....

As a 30 year IT guy, he needs to choose another career. He is gonna suck at IT in the real world.

Hard to recommend a career path not ever having met him. But IT Isn't his game based on your comments.

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

As a 30 year IT guy, he needs to choose another career. He is gonna suck at IT in the real world.

Hard to recommend a career path not ever having met him. But IT Isn't his game based on your comments.

Agreed. Flunked Python three times? That's his problem right there.

With all the free tutorials on the Internet there's no reason to fail a programming class if seeking an IT degree.

I disagree with the comment above about programming not being the way to go. Companies offshore anything and everything they can get away with, not just programming jobs. It's a general concern, not a programming specific concern. But that's the least of nephew's concerns right now.

Everyone does IT whether the company is in the IT business or not so different companies place different values on similar jobs. He'll just need to pay attention to the business side of things and read the writing on the wall.

Salary ranges in IT are all over the place. City, company, and industry matters. I know plenty of older programmers making well over 100K without any formal management title. To be honest, most avoid management because they don't need it to make money, bonuses, or get other perks.

I say he should get his foot in the door with anyone who will take him, improve his skills while gaining experience, then move on to a bigger name company with a global presence to gain even more knowledge after reaching his ceiling at the first job. At this point he should be a valuable industry asset and should be able to go after big bucks and stability but it's not going to just fall in his lap. Dude better step up with the work ethic and pass that class.

 

[Boost Assendahm]

Thanks, everybody.