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For Hack and others - Iceland chief epidemiologist just walked away from vaccines stopping spread and...

Said natural immunity while protecting the sensitive with vaccines and other measures is the only way out.

Iceland, as one of the most vaccinated places on the planet, has officially abandoned vaccines as a tool to achieve herd immunity.

It cannot be overstated how significant this is as Iceland wanted to partner with Pfizer in February to find out if 70% vaccination rate would stop transmission and cause herd immunity. They got to 70%... and cases still exploded.

@HacksawDawg - read this please. The truth is right there for us to see if we will shake off the manure that has been piled on us. Vaccines were never tested to stop spread, and they do not.

This also says something about the utter incompetence in ignoring natural immunity. It also may be the first brick falling in the wall the public health establishment has put up to shut out those of us who have said since last March that protecting the vulnerable while trusting natural immunity would be the only sustainable way to handle this.

There is hope in a country making this admission but we got to fight like hell in the meantime to turn this around. The wrong-headed are winning right now IMO and it is going to take organized social action to counter it.

Here is the key quote: "Guðnason said in Sprengisandur in Bylgjan this morning that it is disappointing that herd immunity has not been achieved with vaccination. He says that only one other way is able to achieve herd immunity, to allow the virus to spread throughout the community."

On the first link click top R and choose English translation


So you're quoting a newspaper out of Brazil which has a whacko leader who's been making false Covid claims for over a year? Great sourcing? What total bullshit.

So WTF? The statement in your post DOES NOT ADVOCATE FOR EVERYONE GETTING COVID. It is nothing more than an observation e herd immunity that you have conflated way, way, way, out of context to suit yours, a few other's, agenda. Vaccines work. They WILL prevent a large majority of users from getting Covid. Fact. Even if not 100% effective as a preventative, the vaccines keep you out of the ICU and suffocating all alone on your own mucus and blood, running a fever north of 104*, with a tube jammed down your throat. Not to mention possible long term affects if you survive.

Honestly you've made some pretty foolish and dangerous statements re Covid over the last year. (Whatever happened to that disgraced Stanford doc?) Most if not all have been proven to be totally false. Please stop with the nonsense. Someone on here may actually believe you which could lead to dire consequences for them or someone else.
 
Not sure if I understand your question. Maybe: Why would this virus not confer natural immunity in the infected?
It certainly can confer natural immunity, but immunity is not an all-or-none phenomenon. There is a spectrum. Also the head to head comparison of natural immunity with vaccination has yet to be demonstrated in any study with hard clinical outcomes. The basic science studies are important, but the studies with real clinical information are better. The best publication I found on the effect of natural immunity versus natural immunity plus vaccine is here:

Natural immunity is good, natural plus vaccine is better

What I do not have a good grasp of are the long-term outcomes in 1) Covid-alpha infected versus mRNA vaccinated when exposed to delta 2) Covid-delta infected vs mRNA vaccinated. The problem is that we know exactly who got the vaccine but we do not know everybody who got alpha, delta or both.
I know these studies, but all are even more short-term than any of the natural immunity studies. In the US, very hard to find. I believe that if you've survived covid 1x, get one jab of Moderna or Phizer. But that wears quickly, based on multiple studies from other countries.

One study that has disappeared completely said if you were recovered survivor, 2 jabs was counter productive. Why should any study dissappear, especially when debates should be encouraged? I can't even tell you why that may be important because it came and went so fast. But when the CDC is insisting so hard on any subject right now,, I will believe they have an agenda. I want more data, but they absolutely will not give us more data. Why?
 
So you're quoting a newspaper out of Brazil which has a whacko leader who's been making false Covid claims for over a year? Great sourcing? What total bullshit.
Roy, step the f*** back. You're the one making up bullshit here. I linked a story in English (that happened to be from Brazil - WTF does that have to do with anything) that linked in an Icelandic news agency.

Is this literally all you have got?

As for your allegation I am somehow killing people with my "misinformation", that is so tiresome at this point I just roll my eyes. Y'all got to come up with something new to shut us up at this point.

And I am glad to put "my" record on this issue up against almost anyone else's, especially yours.
 
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Thanks for the response, BDDB.

I haven’t been following your posts. My afternoon unexpectedly freed up and I decided to ask some questions of a vax skeptic (for want of a better term) after seeing a couple of your posts whike lurking

To get down to the key point which you reference in part 2: in your opinion, by getting vaccinated I did not at reduce my chances of contracting covid. I only (at best) reduced the chances of getting seriously sick. Is that what you’re saying?
Yes the data indicates vaccines reduce your chance of serious illness with COVID but do not stop you becoming infected or transmitting.

At first it was absence of evidence to support vaccines stopping spread. Since then it has become evidence of absence.

The last claim even possible is that vaccines make a marginal difference in slowing spread. Again, not seen any data to support that and if anything see just the opposite.
 
I know these studies, but all are even more short-term than any of the natural immunity studies. In the US, very hard to find. I believe that if you've survived covid 1x, get one jab of Moderna or Phizer. But that wears quickly, based on multiple studies from other countries.

One study that has disappeared completely said if you were recovered survivor, 2 jabs was counter productive. Why should any study dissappear, especially when debates should be encouraged? I can't even tell you why that may be important because it came and went so fast. But when the CDC is insisting so hard on any subject right now,, I will believe they have an agenda. I want more data, but they absolutely will not give us more data. Why?
The lack of long-term studies on the vaccine is simply because it has only been available to the mass public (no age restrictions) for 6 months or so.

Can't speak to the missing study. Typically if there is a retraction, the retraction is published in addition to the original. From what I can tell prior covid plus vaccine is the best immunity possible. One shot may do the trick since it's effectively a booster not a primary vaccine for the prior infected.

I presume you know this but the CDC did stop following breakthrough cases (infections in vaccinated) earlier this year. My impression is that they decided to focus on hospitalized patients and deaths. I'm sure there are politics involved but I am not ready to label the CDC as a nefarious organization.

Not sure if this is the data you were looking for but the Kaiser foundation did keep track of breakthrough cases as reported by states for the past few months. Not every state is represented but at least it's something.

Breakthrough cases by state
 
@RoyDawgMercer ITT 🤣🤣🤣


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You seem to suggest that natural immunity is superior to vax immunity? Is that your position? If yes, why would natural immunity be better than vax immunity?
Great questions and a lot has happened since you asked them on August 9th.

Israeli researchers found that people in the country vaccinated with Pfizer’s COVID-19 shot were 13 times more likely to contract the Delta variant of the CCP virus and 27 times more at risk of symptomatic disease, compared to those who had recovered from COVID-19.

Natural Immunity Longer Lasting Than Protection From COVID-19 Vaccines: Dr. Robert Malone
 
BDDB,

Here's where I am coming from. I'm in my 40s and, like most of us, I am a bit overweight. Otherwise, I have no known unusual risk factors. I got both doses as soon as I could and plan to get a booster if it's recommended. Having said that, I don't wear a mask and feel entirely comfortable in public. In my estimation, the risk of me getting seriously sick is small but significant and the risk of my elderly parents/relatives getting sick is small-ish, but too significant for me to risk not getting vaxxed. It further appears to me that the risks of the vaccine itself are infinitesimal.

I have a few genuine (i.e., non-trolling) questions for you (which I do not ask of my non-vaccinated friends/families because things get touchy). I appreciate your input.

1) Are you saying that I am at greater risk by getting the vaccine than I would be without getting the vaccine? If yes, please let me know the basis of that opinion.

2) Are you suggesting that vaccines do not stop the spread AT ALL? Of course, they are not 100% effective in stopping the spread. My question is whether you believe they stop the spread at all.

3) You seem to suggest that natural immunity is superior to vax immunity? Is that your position? If yes, why would natural immunity be better than vax immunity?

Thanks.
I’m pro-vax, but natural immunity is superior. I got the virus last August (2020) along with my daughter. My wife and son didn’t get it at that time. This year, my son came home with COVID the second week of school and gave it to my wife. My daughter and I never got it a second time. We are all fully vaccinated except for my son who is too young.
 
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