How do we balance effective law enforcement with a self serving citizenry?

[Boost Assendahm]

Rule of law and law enforcement are necessary in any form of government with any level of "freedoms." We the people (preferably citizens) should feel safe in our homes as we feel free to do what we want, say what we like and go where and when we please. HOWEVER, those freedoms should not include a right to ignore our rule of law and to disrespect our law enforcement agencies and agents. The U.N. (yes, that one) did an exhaustive study way back in 2011 on the causes of homicide worldwide. The results of that 120 (give or take) pages of charts, graphs, percentages and commentary was that the two leading causes/factors in our on-going fascination with killing each other (aka murder/homicide, not to include war or genocide) are 1. Little to no respect for rule of law and 2. Little to no respect for law enforcement. A very distant third is access to weapons of various types followed by mental instability, religious fervor and a host of other single digit factors that make us feel the need to kill each other. This study included every country (that would provide statistics) on the planet and amazingly enough the factors/causes lined up very consistently across the board from country to country. Actual volume of murders varied generally in line with actual volume of populations.

So..... if we had more respect for rule of law (that we determine as citizens and voters) and more respect for law enforcement (who are also citizens and neighbors with families), we will have eliminated close to 50% of the factors/causes of homicides in this country. Seem like a pretty good start? But, no. We prefer to obsess over the periphery to include the tools of murder and the passion/lust/mental illness of the murderers. We dissect and find joy within our breathless horror (emotional roller coasters, especially someone else's, entertain us). But we do not repair. We do not correct. We build more prisons and hire more attorneys and build facades upon facades of our pretense of rehabilitating the habitual offenders, when we are effectively only reprocessing them over and over and over again. We do NOT have it right. We have become addicted to what our federal government has been feeding us (both parties) for over 60 years. Washington DC does not exist to solve our problems. DC exists only to discuss our problems while fixing theirs and insuring their future (and of course along the way "fixing" things for all of their cronies, political and business). WE the people can fix all of it by demanding real change not just the window dressing and lullabies we've grown addicted to in our lifetimes. Campaign finance reform would be a great start, followed closely by more serious and effective demands that every citizen be more personally accountable for his own actions as well as his inaction. Education should cease to be a political football and become a real factor in our nation's (and community's) growth, safety and prosperity for ALL of us. How hard can that be to understand and to accomplish?

 

[Fivehade]

Rule of law and law enforcement are necessary in any form of government with any level of "freedoms." We the people (preferably citizens) should feel safe in our homes as we feel free to do what we want, say what we like and go where and when we please. HOWEVER, those freedoms should not include a right to ignore our rule of law and to disrespect our law enforcement agencies and agents. The U.N. (yes, that one) did an exhaustive study way back in 2011 on the causes of homicide worldwide. The results of that 120 (give or take) pages of charts, graphs, percentages and commentary was that the two leading causes/factors in our on-going fascination with killing each other (aka murder/homicide, not to include war or genocide) are 1. Little to no respect for rule of law and 2. Little to no respect for law enforcement. A very distant third is access to weapons of various types followed by mental instability, religious fervor and a host of other single digit factors that make us feel the need to kill each other. This study included every country (that would provide statistics) on the planet and amazingly enough the factors/causes lined up very consistently across the board from country to country. Actual volume of murders varied generally in line with actual volume of populations.

So..... if we had more respect for rule of law (that we determine as citizens and voters) and more respect for law enforcement (who are also citizens and neighbors with families), we will have eliminated close to 50% of the factors/causes of homicides in this country. Seem like a pretty good start? But, no. We prefer to obsess over the periphery to include the tools of murder and the passion/lust/mental illness of the murderers. We dissect and find joy within our breathless horror (emotional roller coasters, especially someone else's, entertain us). But we do not repair. We do not correct. We build more prisons and hire more attorneys and build facades upon facades of our pretense of rehabilitating the habitual offenders, when we are effectively only reprocessing them over and over and over again. We do NOT have it right. We have become addicted to what our federal government has been feeding us (both parties) for over 60 years. Washington DC does not exist to solve our problems. DC exists only to discuss our problems while fixing theirs and insuring their future (and of course along the way "fixing" things for all of their cronies, political and business). WE the people can fix all of it by demanding real change not just the window dressing and lullabies we've grown addicted to in our lifetimes. Campaign finance reform would be a great start, followed closely by more serious and effective demands that every citizen be more personally accountable for his own actions as well as his inaction. Education should cease to be a political football and become a real factor in our nation's (and community's) growth, safety and prosperity for ALL of us. How hard can that be to understand and to accomplish?

do you always believe in what the UN says, or just this time?

 

[Rolodawg2011]

Rule of law and law enforcement are necessary in any form of government with any level of "freedoms." We the people (preferably citizens) should feel safe in our homes as we feel free to do what we want, say what we like and go where and when we please. HOWEVER, those freedoms should not include a right to ignore our rule of law and to disrespect our law enforcement agencies and agents. The U.N. (yes, that one) did an exhaustive study way back in 2011 on the causes of homicide worldwide. The results of that 120 (give or take) pages of charts, graphs, percentages and commentary was that the two leading causes/factors in our on-going fascination with killing each other (aka murder/homicide, not to include war or genocide) are 1. Little to no respect for rule of law and 2. Little to no respect for law enforcement. A very distant third is access to weapons of various types followed by mental instability, religious fervor and a host of other single digit factors that make us feel the need to kill each other. This study included every country (that would provide statistics) on the planet and amazingly enough the factors/causes lined up very consistently across the board from country to country. Actual volume of murders varied generally in line with actual volume of populations.

So..... if we had more respect for rule of law (that we determine as citizens and voters) and more respect for law enforcement (who are also citizens and neighbors with families), we will have eliminated close to 50% of the factors/causes of homicides in this country. Seem like a pretty good start? But, no. We prefer to obsess over the periphery to include the tools of murder and the passion/lust/mental illness of the murderers. We dissect and find joy within our breathless horror (emotional roller coasters, especially someone else's, entertain us). But we do not repair. We do not correct. We build more prisons and hire more attorneys and build facades upon facades of our pretense of rehabilitating the habitual offenders, when we are effectively only reprocessing them over and over and over again. We do NOT have it right. We have become addicted to what our federal government has been feeding us (both parties) for over 60 years. Washington DC does not exist to solve our problems. DC exists only to discuss our problems while fixing theirs and insuring their future (and of course along the way "fixing" things for all of their cronies, political and business). WE the people can fix all of it by demanding real change not just the window dressing and lullabies we've grown addicted to in our lifetimes. Campaign finance reform would be a great start, followed closely by more serious and effective demands that every citizen be more personally accountable for his own actions as well as his inaction. Education should cease to be a political football and become a real factor in our nation's (and community's) growth, safety and prosperity for ALL of us. How hard can that be to understand and to accomplish?

Well we don't do that because we have liberals incharge...liberals don't believe in personal responsibility or limited government .

 

[HeulenHund2]

Rule of law and law enforcement are necessary in any form of government with any level of "freedoms." We the people (preferably citizens) should feel safe in our homes as we feel free to do what we want, say what we like and go where and when we please. HOWEVER, those freedoms should not include a right to ignore our rule of law and to disrespect our law enforcement agencies and agents. The U.N. (yes, that one) did an exhaustive study way back in 2011 on the causes of homicide worldwide. The results of that 120 (give or take) pages of charts, graphs, percentages and commentary was that the two leading causes/factors in our on-going fascination with killing each other (aka murder/homicide, not to include war or genocide) are 1. Little to no respect for rule of law and 2. Little to no respect for law enforcement. A very distant third is access to weapons of various types followed by mental instability, religious fervor and a host of other single digit factors that make us feel the need to kill each other. This study included every country (that would provide statistics) on the planet and amazingly enough the factors/causes lined up very consistently across the board from country to country. Actual volume of murders varied generally in line with actual volume of populations.

So..... if we had more respect for rule of law (that we determine as citizens and voters) and more respect for law enforcement (who are also citizens and neighbors with families), we will have eliminated close to 50% of the factors/causes of homicides in this country. Seem like a pretty good start? But, no. We prefer to obsess over the periphery to include the tools of murder and the passion/lust/mental illness of the murderers. We dissect and find joy within our breathless horror (emotional roller coasters, especially someone else's, entertain us). But we do not repair. We do not correct. We build more prisons and hire more attorneys and build facades upon facades of our pretense of rehabilitating the habitual offenders, when we are effectively only reprocessing them over and over and over again. We do NOT have it right. We have become addicted to what our federal government has been feeding us (both parties) for over 60 years. Washington DC does not exist to solve our problems. DC exists only to discuss our problems while fixing theirs and insuring their future (and of course along the way "fixing" things for all of their cronies, political and business). WE the people can fix all of it by demanding real change not just the window dressing and lullabies we've grown addicted to in our lifetimes. Campaign finance reform would be a great start, followed closely by more serious and effective demands that every citizen be more personally accountable for his own actions as well as his inaction. Education should cease to be a political football and become a real factor in our nation's (and community's) growth, safety and prosperity for ALL of us. How hard can that be to understand and to accomplish?

''The actual volume of murders varied generally with the volume of population''. That is nowhere close to true. Murder RATES are what everybody looks at, not a simple count. The rate of murders in The U.S. far exceeds every other developed country. A huge variable is our obsession with guns.

 

[Rolodawg2011]

''The actual volume of murders varied generally with the volume of population''. That is nowhere close to true. Murder RATES are what everybody looks at, not a simple count. The rate of murders in The U.S. far exceeds every other developed country. A huge variable is our obsession with guns.

Take out the murder s in democrat run cities and the USA is at the bottom of the list. Crime is a problem because we have to many democRATS

 

[dawgman25]

Helen not gonna go for that Rolo, but I bet you could find tons of facts to back your statement!!

 

[NavyDawg22]

Boost...to simply try to answer your question about rule of law from a local police standpoint. Here are my thoughts:

- All police should have body and car cameras to keep them honest.
- Only select police should get guns and only if they are in the trunk of their vehicle. A policeman that pulls his weapon out of the trunk of his vehicle had better be facing someone who has a weapon like a gun also.
- Police need to have college degrees and pass anger management training and not have a history of violence themselves.
- Cameras everywhere in the big cities (think London where the police don't have guns but billyclubs)
- Police misconduct should result in jail time if so proven in a court of law. Police should be able to be individually prosecuted in some circumstances. So the law would need to be re-written to be able to do some of this. Police having special immunity under the law has created a lawless police organization in some respects.
- The criminal for profit jail corporations should be outlawed as well as those that build those jails. Need to find another solution.
- Stop putting people into jail for non-violent crimes and feeding this jail corporate system.
- Let citizens arm themselves and protect property ownership self defense laws.
- My last one is probably too hard to change but when you take God out of the schools people have no moral foundation on which to fall back on. Civilization without morals always and eventually will fall into chaos.

 

[Rolodawg2011]

Boost...to simply try to answer your question about rule of law from a local police standpoint. Here are my thoughts:

- All police should have body and car cameras to keep them honest.
- Only select police should get guns and only if they are in the trunk of their vehicle. A policeman that pulls his weapon out of the trunk of his vehicle had better be facing someone who has a weapon like a gun also.
- Police need to have college degrees and pass anger management training and not have a history of violence themselves.
- Cameras everywhere in the big cities (think London where the police don't have guns but billyclubs)
- Police misconduct should result in jail time if so proven in a court of law. Police should be able to be individually prosecuted in some circumstances. So the law would need to be re-written to be able to do some of this. Police having special immunity under the law has created a lawless police organization in some respects.
- The criminal for profit jail corporations should be outlawed as well as those that build those jails. Need to find another solution.
- Stop putting people into jail for non-violent crimes and feeding this jail corporate system.
- Let citizens arm themselves and protect property ownership self defense laws.
- My last one is probably too hard to change but when you take God out of the schools people have no moral foundation on which to fall back on. Civilization without morals always and eventually will fall into chaos.

So good ideas....some freaking loony ideas Unarmed policeman in Paris

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 

[NavyDawg22]

So good ideas....some freaking loony ideas Unarmed policeman in Paris

View embedded media

Police are unarmed in London. Not all police Rolo. You already have SWAT teams in every community to handle the big situations. Police don't need to keep shooting defenseless people who are just mouthing off. That needs to stop. Make the police put the guns in their trunks and set up some standard protocal when they can check them out for specific types of stops.

 

[Rolodawg2011]

Police are unarmed in London. Not all police Rolo. You already have SWAT teams in every community to handle the big situations. Police don't need to keep shooting defenseless people who are just mouthing off. That needs to stop. Make the police put the guns in their trunks and set up some standard protocal when they can check them out for specific types of stops.

C'mon...are you armed? Should we call keep our guns locked up in the basement? No, a cop is putting his life on the line everyday. If they need a gun, that don't have time to ask the crook to wait while they get their weapon from the trunk. That's just nuts.

As the video shows. French police aren't armed either...how'd that work out,,,if only that terrorist would have given the cop a fair shot and let him retrieve a weapon...how unfair

 

[NavyDawg22]

C'mon...are you armed? Should we call keep our guns locked up in the basement? No, a cop is putting his life on the line everyday. If they need a gun, that don't have time to ask the crook to wait while they get their weapon from the trunk. That's just nuts.

As the video shows. French police aren't armed either...how'd that work out,,,if only that terrorist would have given the cop a fair shot and let him retrieve a weapon...how unfair

Give them a taser then. Our police in this country kill way too many innocent people. It's not just black people either. We have a lot of police officers who have no business being police officers. My father in law was a policeman and is a nice man but the things I've heard convince me that one bad apple spoils the whole barrel. Also, way too much police assaulting people because they got their feelings hurt. Police state in this country is out of control.

 

[Boost Assendahm]

Boost...to simply try to answer your question about rule of law from a local police standpoint. Here are my thoughts:

- All police should have body and car cameras to keep them honest.
- Only select police should get guns and only if they are in the trunk of their vehicle. A policeman that pulls his weapon out of the trunk of his vehicle had better be facing someone who has a weapon like a gun also.
- Police need to have college degrees and pass anger management training and not have a history of violence themselves.
- Cameras everywhere in the big cities (think London where the police don't have guns but billyclubs)
- Police misconduct should result in jail time if so proven in a court of law. Police should be able to be individually prosecuted in some circumstances. So the law would need to be re-written to be able to do some of this. Police having special immunity under the law has created a lawless police organization in some respects.
- The criminal for profit jail corporations should be outlawed as well as those that build those jails. Need to find another solution.
- Stop putting people into jail for non-violent crimes and feeding this jail corporate system.
- Let citizens arm themselves and protect property ownership self defense laws.
- My last one is probably too hard to change but when you take God out of the schools people have no moral foundation on which to fall back on. Civilization without morals always and eventually will fall into chaos.

Liked it except for the gun in the trunk. That would be pretty useless in most situations where criminals or domestic violence participants are also armed.

 

[Boost Assendahm]

do you always believe in what the UN says, or just this time?

Their study was not an opinion piece nor was it based on any political bias. It was supposedly an unbiased study, and yes, guns are one of the factors in homicides, but guns (or any other weapons) are NOT the primary causes/factors in homicides. NO respect for rule of law is a heavily weighted number 1 followed closely by NO respect for law enforcement at number 2. You conveniently glossed right over that bit of news. How predictable do you prefer to be?

 

[NavyDawg22]

Liked it except for the gun in the trunk. That would be pretty useless in most situations where criminals or domestic violence participants are also armed.

No one's perfect but I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.

 

[HeulenHund2]

Take out the murder s in democrat run cities and the USA is at the bottom of the list. Crime is a problem because we have to many democRATS

That is ridiculous. Southern whites are far more violent than Northern whites and the south in general is more violent than any other region in the US. Republican controlled states are generally poorer, less educated and more violent.

 

[Rolodawg2011]

That is ridiculous. Southern whites are far more violent than Northern whites and the south in general is more violent than any other region in the US. Republican controlled states are generally poorer, less educated and more violent.

Generally speaking.....you're a moron

 

[Boost Assendahm]

That is ridiculous. Southern whites are far more violent than Northern whites and the south in general is more violent than any other region in the US. Republican controlled states are generally poorer, less educated and more violent.

Better check your facts on big city violence vs. rural violence in our country. Seems more and more, that your real issue is based on an assumption that all folks with Southern accents are dumb, crooked and/or violent. Stereotype much? Did you fear recess that much? You really need to spend a lot more time actually talking with people outside your sphere of comfort, not online, but face to face.

 

[HeulenHund2]

Generally speaking.....you're a moron

You don't care for honesty when it's pointed back at you, so typical.

 

[HeulenHund2]

Better check your facts on big city violence vs. rural violence in our country. Seems more and more, that your real issue is based on an assumption that all folks with Southern accents are dumb, crooked and/or violent. Stereotype much? Did you fear recess that much? You really need to spend a lot more time actually talking with people outside your sphere of comfort, not online, but face to face.

I have checked my facts. My post came from an exhaustive study. I'm not making assumptions, I researched to shoot down racially motivated claims.
You know less than nothing about me. I was born in the small town south and I've made it a point to live outside my comfort zone and learned to be at home in many environments.

 

[Boost Assendahm]

Here's a little taste. Every city mentioned in this report can be found on just about every "usual suspects" list on metro area violent crime.

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci...declining-crime-spike-violence-across-country

I have checked my facts. My post came from an exhaustive study. I'm not making assumptions, I researched to shoot down racially motivated claims.
You know less than nothing about me. I was born in the small town south and I've made it a point to live outside my comfort zone and learned to be at home in many environments.

Calling BS on your "exhaustive study," as you made an unsubstantiated claim (not a study). And all of us are guilty at times of making broad brush statements that we "claim" will resolve our pet offense or "micro-aggression" of the day.

 

[oletex]

Give them a taser then. Our police in this country kill way too many innocent people. It's not just black people either. We have a lot of police officers who have no business being police officers. My father in law was a policeman and is a nice man but the things I've heard convince me that one bad apple spoils the whole barrel. Also, way too much police assaulting people because they got their feelings hurt. Police state in this country is out of control.

You make some good points, some unreasonable. You would raise the cost of maintaining a police force to outrageous levels. Some police do in fact use bad judgement and a very few are part of an us vs them (police vs all non-police) mentality. I've first hand seen it. So that needs to be addressed. And stop the militarization look and feel of police, even a desk clerk will dress like a green beret in some cases. You are not under siege in the central highlands so stop acting like it. You write tickets, not street fight in Iraq so drop the facade and attitude.

Another good starting point would be to quit dividing the country by race as our current WH occupant has done, convincing black people that they are 24/7 victimized by police thereby encouraging them to act out toward law enforcement. A policeman called on and doing his job to protect a homeowner's property and asks the homeowner for ID is not acting "stupidly" so give him your ID. That attitude is spread all across the nation. A child is taught to be arrogant enough to refuse to say "it's a clock" when asked then praised by the president of the USA for acting real "stupidly"......And to tell the truth a disproportionate amount of the violence activity in this nation is perpetrated by black people so the confrontations and police citizen interaction is the highest between those groups leading to ongoing difficulties. Obey the police is a simple solution that needs to be emphasized. Even if they seemingly are over the top verbally. Police need cameras and voice recorders so such over the top behavior gives citizens rights to bring legit charges and maybe recompense. At the same time you, as a citizen, are responsible for obeying the spirit of the law in the streets so do so. Due to the LBJ great leap forward enslaving inner city blacks to a dem party with policies that dissolve black families then black gangs are likely here forever. And so is the attendant fallout and violence between cops and many young black males. Our nation has spent over 22 trillion, yes 22 T trying to correct a gap between the poor and the middle class and we have only managed to permanently make the poor a permanent part of the fabric of our country. They are here to stay as well as the problems.

 

[NavyDawg22]

You make some good points, some unreasonable. You would raise the cost of maintaining a police force to outrageous levels. Some police do in fact use bad judgement and a very few are part of an us vs them (police vs all non-police) mentality. I've first hand seen it. So that needs to be addressed. And stop the militarization look and feel of police, even a desk clerk will dress like a green beret in some cases. You are not under siege in the central highlands so stop acting like it. You write tickets, not street fight in Iraq so drop the facade and attitude.

Another good starting point would be to quit dividing the country by race as our current WH occupant has done, convincing black people that they are 24/7 victimized by police thereby encouraging them to act out toward law enforcement. A policeman called on and doing his job to protect a homeowner's property and asks the homeowner for ID is not acting "stupidly" so give him your ID. That attitude is spread all across the nation. A child is taught to be arrogant enough to refuse to say "it's a clock" when asked then praised by the president of the USA for acting real "stupidly"......And to tell the truth a disproportionate amount of the violence activity in this nation is perpetrated by black people so the confrontations and police citizen interaction is the highest between those groups leading to ongoing difficulties. Obey the police is a simple solution that needs to be emphasized. Even if they seemingly are over the top verbally. Police need cameras and voice recorders so such over the top behavior gives citizens rights to bring legit charges and maybe recompense. At the same time you, as a citizen, are responsible for obeying the spirit of the law in the streets so do so. Due to the LBJ great leap forward enslaving inner city blacks to a dem party with policies that dissolve black families then black gangs are likely here forever. And so is the attendant fallout and violence between cops and many young black males. Our nation has spent over 22 trillion, yes 22 T trying to correct a gap between the poor and the middle class and we have only managed to permanently make the poor a permanent part of the fabric of our country. They are here to stay as well as the problems.

You bring up a lot of issues. The militarization of the police is a systemic issue along with the profiting from building jails and locking people up. I do agree with some of what you say in the second paragraph but that is not really what I was discussing and deflects from what steps police forces can do and state governments can do to stop this. The whole WH thing sounds great but doesn't address anything I was discussing. The whole obeying the police sounds like a standard police retort. Then you go into statistics on black men and young people which sounds like a defense of our awful situation. Lastly, you blame it all on failed social programs. I don't know that my post talked about any of that but just provided some recommendations on how to fix the local police situation and get citizenry trust back from both black and white and every other color. You seem to be saying the larger social issues have failed and so just obey the police otherwise we will arrest you. It is precisely that type of hopeless woe are we attitude that has created a nation with the highest number of 'criminals' in the modern world. Even greater than that police state called Russia. Good company to be in...

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

Rule of law and law enforcement are necessary in any form of government with any level of "freedoms." We the people (preferably citizens) should feel safe in our homes as we feel free to do what we want, say what we like and go where and when we please. HOWEVER, those freedoms should not include a right to ignore our rule of law and to disrespect our law enforcement agencies and agents. The U.N. (yes, that one) did an exhaustive study way back in 2011 on the causes of homicide worldwide. The results of that 120 (give or take) pages of charts, graphs, percentages and commentary was that the two lsummarilses/factors in our on-going fascination with killing each other (aka murder/homicide, not to include war or genocide) are 1. Little to no respect for rule of law and 2. Little to no respect for law enforcement. A very distant third is access to weapons of various types followed by mental instability, religious fervor and a host of other single digit factors that make us feel the need to kill each other. This study included every country (that would provide statistics) on the planet and amazingly enough the factors/causes lined up very consistently across the board from country to country. Actual volume of murders varied generally in line with actual volume of populations.

So..... if we had more respect for rule of law (that we determine as citizens and voters) and more respect for law enforcement (who are also citizens and neighbors with families), we will have eliminated close to 50% of the factors/causes of homicides in this country. Seem like a pretty good start? But, no. We prefer to obsess over the periphery to include the tools of murder and the passion/lust/mental illness of the murderers. We dissect and find joy within our breathless horror (emotional roller coasters, especially someone else's, entertain us). But we do not repair. We do not correct. We build more prisons and hire more attorneys and build facades upon facades of our pretense of rehabilitating the habitual offenders, when we are effectively only reprocessing them over and over and over again. We do NOT have it right. We have become addicted to what our federal government has been feeding us (both parties) for over 60 years. Washington DC does not exist to solve our problems. DC exists only to discuss our problems while fixing theirs and insuring their future (and of course along the way "fixing" things for all of their cronies, political and business). WE the people can fix all of it by demanding real change not just the window dressing and lullabies we've grown addicted to in our lifetimes. Campaign finance reform would be a great start, followed closely by more serious and effective demands that every citizen be more personally accountable for his own actions as well as his inaction. Education should cease to be a political football and become a real factor in our nation's (and community's) growth, safety and prosperity for ALL of us. How hard can that be to understand and to accomplish?

Generally speaking, I think prohibitions are the number 1 cause of murder worldwide, especially in the Western hemisphere regarding the impact the War On Drugs and the black market for illegal guns (I research this stuff a little myself). All prohibition ever does, is reward criminals and the government. The average citizen is the person who suffers every time. Take away the power the criminals and the corrupt, and things will clean right up. The free market will decide it. You'd have cleaner, exponentially safer narcotics. People wouldn't have to go into dangerous situations, or be introduced to a nefarious culture, to have a good time. And all the glory and power would be taken away from the gangsters. Gangsta rap would dissappear overnight, as the material itself wouldn't exist.

 

[HeulenHund2]

No one's perfect but I have spent a lot of time thinking about it.

Here's a little taste. Every city mentioned in this report can be found on just about every "usual suspects" list on metro area violent crime.

http://www.twincities.com/nation/ci...declining-crime-spike-violence-across-country




Calling BS on your "exhaustive study," as you made an unsubstantiated claim (not a study). And all of us are guilty at times of making broad brush statements that we "claim" will resolve our pet offense or "micro-aggression" of the day.

More BS. What I posted is true, I never said cities weren't more violent, I said southerners of similar demographics, whites included, are more violent than northerners. I got just the reactions I expected. insults on top of insults. That's because many are good at pointing out the faults in ''OTHERS'', but turn the light on THEIR culture and they get defensive.
All of the poorest and least educated States are strong Red states. Many of these states take more federal dollars than they pay in.
I'm not posting these truths to put down The South, I'm doing so to make a point about those who bitch the loudest about other groups.

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

More BS. What I posted is true, I never said cities weren't more violent, I said southerners of similar demographics, whites included, are more violent than northerners. I got just the reactions I expected. insults on top of insults. That's because many are good at pointing out the faults in ''OTHERS'', but turn the light on THEIR culture and they get defensive.
All of the poorest and least educated States are strong Red states. Many of these states take more federal dollars than they pay in.
I'm not posting these truths to put down The South, I'm doing so to make a point about those who bitch the loudest about other groups.

Albeit, I think there is a lot that's wrong with redneck culture (let's not mince words), there are also a lot of misnomers surrounding their culture. Yes, they tend to be embarrassing. Yes, they tend to fight a little more than the average person. But by and large, the non trailerpark redneck (particularly a redneck who is a legal gun owner), is among the most law abiding in the country. In fact
legal gun owners are a non factor, statistically. Now when there is an act of illegal violence committed by a legal gun owner, it's highly politicized, but usually only isolated incidents are -- whereas the inner city violence involving illegal guns is barely reported on the news. Frankly because there's not enough airtime to even cover them all. That's a very sad reality. And the truth here is, said violence is so disproportionate, that it makes the Red State violence (not the state itself, but the type of violence you're touting) a virtual non factor in comparison. I appreciate your passion. And I sort of think your opinions are driven by your conscience than most here, but you're just wrong on this one buddy. And trust me, nobody is more embarrassed by chicken fried Walmart Americans more than me.

 

[Boost Assendahm]

Generally speaking, I think prohibitions are the number 1 cause of murder worldwide, especially in the Western hemisphere regarding the impact the War On Drugs and the black market for illegal guns (I research this stuff a little myself). All prohibition ever does, is reward criminals and the government. The average citizen is the person who suffers every time. Take away the power the criminals and the corrupt, and things will clean right up. The free market will decide it. You'd have cleaner, exponentially safer narcotics. People wouldn't have to go into dangerous situations, or be introduced to a nefarious culture, to have a good time. And all the glory and power would be taken away from the gangsters. Gangsta rap would dissappear overnight, as the material itself wouldn't exist.

Could not agree more. Non-violent criminals, though very many of them are serial repeat offenders, typically are not involved in killings, unless they try to short change their supplier or ring leader. Some countries in Europe take drug offenders, particularly drug addicts/users to hospitals not to jail. And they do not pursue people in their own homes for drug usage. The laws are generally enforced along the lines of okay to use or to have. Not okay to sell or to buy. Agree that "The War on Drugs" has been a dismal failure as it has not even made a dent in drug use in this country. Am also a firm believer in rehabilitating our prison system to make them less of a staging area and more of a deterrent with a lot fewer inmates across the board. Punishment for violent crime in general and for crimes against women and children should never ever be softened in any way.

 

[NavyDawg22]

The last 3 presidents admitted to trying dope. Jeb Bush just admitted it this week. Seriously, why is this not legal? Harder drugs should be outlawed but throwing the people in jail if no physical harm has been done or some other crime (leaving children without supervision, etc. and fill in the blank) then why are we doing this? Too much money is why. Take away the profit incentive from building jails and free labor for companies doing business with the states and some of it will dry up immediately. If you pass a law that prohibits municipal and state and other government budgets from using prisoner labor or money gathered from arrests then the pressure will be off for mayors and police chiefs to have quotas. It has been this systemic criminalization of the citizenry that has fueled incarceration in the country. The War on Drugs has exacerbated this but is not the only reason why. Those under poor economic conditions are easy targets for police.

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

The last 3 presidents admitted to trying dope. Jeb Bush just admitted it this week. Seriously, why is this not legal? Harder drugs should be outlawed but throwing the people in jail if no physical harm has been done or some other crime (leaving children without supervision, etc. and fill in the blank) then why are we doing this? Too much money is why. Take away the profit incentive from building jails and free labor for companies doing business with the states and some of it will dry up immediately. If you pass a law that prohibits municipal and state and other government budgets from using prisoner labor or money gathered from arrests then the pressure will be off for mayors and police chiefs to have quotas. It has been this systemic criminalization of the citizenry that has fueled incarceration in the country. The War on Drugs has exacerbated this but is not the only reason why. Those under poor economic conditions are easy targets for police.

The real answer to your question is that the criminalization of drugs subsidizes far too much of the government, for them to give that up. At this point, those monies sustain the livelihood of way too many people in the Criminal Justice
System (from cops, both local and federal, to people in the court system, to the correctional system to the probation system, as well as funding thr mandatory government run treatment facilities). This manufactured justice is the life blood of the industry. A reduction in crime (rather numbers), is bad for business and puts people out of work. The criminal justice system is supported by an industrial complex.