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I guess my problem on the whole here is that society seems hellbent on creating a witch hunting...

BaronVonHeinsteidel

Circle of Honor
Gold Member
Nov 13, 2007
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culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.
Great post
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.

Preach Brother.
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to. Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of it's own, the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasioion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know, that once this culture takes on a life of its own, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.

I would like to add that we have a statute of limitations for felony crimes why should this be any different. In regards to Henry Grady (removal of statue & name change for UGA School of Journalism) the current environment is attempting to retroactively apply today’s social mores to a period 150 years prior.
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.
It appears that one side wants to silent the other. The group think mentality
helps the socialist agenda and discourages individualism which is the left goal. It's plain as plain can be.
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.
GettyImages-514890422.jpg

Easy solution. If you do not drown you are a witch and will be executed. Of course if you drown you are not a witch.

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culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.

was just thinking the same and was about to post something similar in relation to what Jake Fromm said.

He even had a “haha” on the end. It was obvious it was all said in jest.

should he have said it??....probably not.

should have had to apologize??....I am saying no, but it’s probably better that he did.

friends joke and shouldn’t look for a “gotcha moment”. If this is the way it is going to be, there will be nothing accomplished.

extremes on both sides of the fence, it goes both ways. the world has gone off into the deep end...at least some it has.
 
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It appears that one side wants to silent the other. The group think mentality
helps the socialist agenda and discourages individualism which is the left goal. It's plain as plain can be.
Lotta truth in this post.
 
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I think Maria Taylor’s comments on Fromm were pretty spot on. She said she wouldn’t want her personal messages broadcast and she also said that she didn’t think the messages Fromm sent were indicative of the person she came to know.

Assuming what Dabo supposedly did is true (I don’t think another player has confirmed which gives me pause), it was in poor taste but I don’t think he or Fromm deserved to be “cancelled” over either incident. I’m more interested in their actions. I haven’t seen anything troubling out of Fromm and outside of Dabo’s televangelist schtick I would generally say the same for him on this front.

Again, I’m more concerned with people’s actions than the gotcha stuff of trying to find something in poor taste that may have been said in the past.
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.

Terrific post.
 
24 hour news was fine until it became almost completely one-sided towards a certain agenda. News became opinions and propaganda driven

better off before imo. too much time to fill in with crap that is not the news, or political agendas.

limit like before, not much choice other than to talk about what is newsworthy.
 
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While I agree with you, but I know and I think you do to that people act differently behind a screen and keyboard. Things are said, people are insulted here that would or will happen face to face because people seek verbal conflict, but will try to avoid physical conflict.

I am guessing this post has something to do with Jake. Everyone has heard nothing has the fury of a scorned woman. It took her over a year to be offended and racial tension to be at an extreme for her to be offended? IMO, she thought she was going to enjoy the ride of being with a professional athlete in some fashion, but she wasn't included. At that point she become offended and decided to do as much damage as she could to him. Should Jake's image be tarnished? Absolutely, but this young lady was fine with what he said until it become clear she wasn't going to be in the picture. While it was still possible, maybe even likely, she agreed with him for over a year.
 
Totally agree. All these holier-than-thou people that are quick to condemn others for a one time slip of the tongue need to look at themselves first before they speak. As OP referenced I’m pretty sure that all of us have said something in our lives which we wish we could take back.

As in the case of Fromm what he said was pretty insensitive and even if it was said in jest it’s still not a very good look. However if he’s man enough to apologize and take responsibility for his actions then I think he deserves our forgiveness. Now if Fromm has a history of saying things like this then it would be a different story. However should one slip of the tongue totally out weigh all of the good things he has done?

I just hope the people who are condemning Jake as a racist and who refuse to accept his apology never have their personal messages exposed bc I can assure you that we’ve probably all said some things that we would not want made public. However as human being we need to be aware of our past mistakes and grow from them otherwise we are doomed to ignorance.
 
And what about comedians who joke about all things race, sex, sexual preference, age, looks, and religious related? Are they going to be forced to apologize even though many people find that type of comedy humorous?
 
And what about comedians who joke about all things race, sex, sexual preference, age, looks, and religious related? Are they going to be forced to apologize even though many people find that type of comedy humorous?

Comedians are allowed to joke about all things that are white-related, but never about minorities.

As in "how many white guys does it take to screw in a light bulb?"
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.
 
The problem from my perspective is that a majority of it is one viewpoint cancelling another. Sure, from time to time some dipsh!t conservative tries to start a boycott against a liberal person, but it's almost always those with conservative views who are getting cancelled. It makes those of us who would love to have a factual, candid, intelligent conversation, where we could throw out all sorts of things we read and research and hear for discussion, just shut up. What we say could be taken out of context, amplified to the world, and suddenly we are losing business, family, friends over something rediculous. It makes it so that you can't have these types of conversations unless you are in a really tight group of like-thinking friends. And that defeats the purpose ... I'd rather have those conversations with people who aren't like-thinking friends. I don't want an echo chamber, I want a discussion of ideas where what I say can be challenged, and can learn and grow. But, that's gone today.

Think about the Tom Cotton OpEd in the NY Times. Tom Cotton is not everyone's cup of tea, but I also think he had some legitimate things to say in his OpEd. Public polls have shown that a majority of Americans agree with what he wrote. What was the perfect way for all the people whining about the Times running his OpEd to respond? Their own OpEd, pointing out where and why Cotton was wrong, in their opinion. But, no, instead we have a bunch of whiney reporters call for the head of those who chose to publish it. And the editors falling all over themselves to walk back their correct, IMO, decision to publish the editorial. This, at what is supposed to be our paper of record.

At the end of the day, it silences people in public. But not in private. That is why liberals were shocked when Trump won, and many like me were not surprised at all. I had heard from members of the silent majority for a long time that they were voting Trump, just weren't going to tell anyone.

To those who will attempt to paint me as racist, or some crazy conservative - I am more of a libertarian, than conservative. I start at the basic assumption that all politicians of all stripes suck, and are in it for the own gain. I will point out hypocrisy from both sides. I will point out dumbasses on both sides. And as a libertarian, there are issues where I am far to the left of your mainstream liberal.
 
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While I agree with you, but I know and I think you do to that people act differently behind a screen and keyboard. Things are said, people are insulted here that would or will happen face to face because people seek verbal conflict, but will try to avoid physical conflict.

I am guessing this post has something to do with Jake. Everyone has heard nothing has the fury of a scorned woman. It took her over a year to be offended and racial tension to be at an extreme for her to be offended? IMO, she thought she was going to enjoy the ride of being with a professional athlete in some fashion, but she wasn't included. At that point she become offended and decided to do as much damage as she could to him. Should Jake's image be tarnished? Absolutely, but this young lady was fine with what he said until it become clear she wasn't going to be in the picture. While it was still possible, maybe even likely, she agreed with him for over a year.
The reactions to Jake sparked the discussion. But this is about our increasingly predatory nature.
 
Comedians are allowed to joke about all things that are white-related, but never about minorities.

As in "how many white guys does it take to screw in a light bulb?"
I don’t know, how many?
 
We live in society that wants to distill complex problems into labels and Black and White when the reality is gray.

The Left and Right are both guilty of it and honest debate is tossed in the gutter. My sense of everything that has gone on with the BLM movement is that fundamentally the country is sympathetic to the idea of a kinder gentler police force and racism is bad. Kind of like saying I love Mom and Apple Pie.

You’ve got white kids on the street with the black kids. Mayors and police marching with the protestors and a lot of love as long as nobody is lighting fires.

So now the hard part starts. What happens when the inner city gangs start shooting and cops are back in the war zone again? There are more insidious and harder to fix problems beneath the cop issue. The cop issue is more a symptom of those issues than a cause IMO. Black kids on the street kill each other at way higher rates than cops. Fix the problems that drive that issue and the cop issue pretty much resolves itself. There will be fewer cop interactions in the black community because there will be no reason for those interactions to occur. It boils down to risk and benefit of the doubt and trust on both sides.

I’m all for anything that helps lift the black community and stops the Police profiling of black kids. But I’m dubious that this is much more than a symbolic grand gesture until the underlying institutional issues are addressed. Cops kill more white guys than black guys by the numbers but generally the white community doesn’t see their own face on that because unless a white guy provokes an incident with a cop, they typically don’t get hassled. Black folks see a cop and see a bullet headed their way.
 
It appears that one side wants to silent the other. The group think mentality
helps the socialist agenda and discourages individualism which is the left goal. It's plain as plain can be.

Please. There is plenty on the left that scares me and thought policing is one of them, but if you can't see the totalitarian/fascist tendencies on the right too then you might want to read a little more history.

Pick your tyranny, but don't pretend that one side has cornered the market on it.
 
I would like to add that we have a statute of limitations for felony crimes why should this be any different. In regards to Henry Grady (removal of statue & name change for UGA School of Journalism) the current environment is attempting to retroactively apply today’s social mores to a period 150 years prior.

Removing reminders of history “makes it all better“ so we can concentrate only on pleasant political platitudes & fairy tale lullabies.
 
culture with little regard to context, time and place. Where are lines drawn? All of you guys have said something at one point that would get you fired (and you would certainly be unelectable) if you were held to the suffocatingly stringent standards many of you seem to fine holding others to.

Once enough of the world gets too comfortable with mining everyone's transgressions (doesn't matter if they are recalling something they said in the past, even if it's something they regret or if they made a joke once) this gotcha culture will take on a life of its own and the standards will be so suffocating that we lose our humor and nobody will ever be able to make a candid statement again for fear of how it will be interpreted. And nobody will be forgiven, unless maybe they parade themselves on an apology tour and forfeit their dignity.

The bottom line is people are weaponizing grief and acting like cartels. People will start cannibalizing each other like it's nothing, just waiting to pick the bones like vultures. Real life is becoming like the scene from Invasion Of The Body Snatchers where the infected point and make blood curdling noises when they discover someone who isn't infected.

Just know that once this culture hits terminal velocity, everything will be considered offensive by somebody and nobody will be safe from a mob that will that is resistant from checks... because reason will be a thing of the past.

Having a set of standards for transgressors is fine. But there also needs to be a set of standards for those wielding the pitchforks.

Excellent perspective. And whatever happened to balance? Balancing risk with reward? Balancing action with positive, productive result? Balancing heart with head? “Whole truth” and functional balance are both missing from most of our public discourse.
 
Please. There is plenty on the left that scares me and thought policing is one of them, but if you can't see the totalitarian/fascist tendencies on the right too then you might want to read a little more history.

Pick your tyranny, but don't pretend that one side has cornered the market on it.


No side is without fault, but by nature, I have a tendency to defend the unpopular against an angry mob. I did that against the war hawks during the war on terror when they saw 'terrorists' everywhere.

But now, I do find myself defending those who were considered to be the church ladies of the past because the pendulum has swung too far regarding the burden of responsibility in this culture war.

The right was definitely given more latitude for about ten years, just after 9-11. But now people perceived to be right wingers are definitely held to a higher level of scrutiny and have less breathing room to make basic mistakes.

Mainly because there seem to be such loose standards and repercussions for character assassination these days. And it seems certain people have a street pass from being held accountable for the same transgressions.
 
Please. There is plenty on the left that scares me and thought policing is one of them, but if you can't see the totalitarian/fascist tendencies on the right too then you might want to read a little more history.

Pick your tyranny, but don't pretend that one side has cornered the market on it.
Can you give an example of current totalitarian/fascist tendencies by conservatives, or even Trump? Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.
 
Can you give an example of current totalitarian/fascist tendencies by conservatives, or even Trump? Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Trump is a populist who uses ultra-nationalism to incite people and the right wing eats it up. Therein lies the roots of fascism. Not saying Trump is fascist anymore than I think the left wing is totalitarian - they both have those tendencies and are leaning too close to them for my comfort level.

Just as the left want you to conform to a certain way of thinking, so does the right. And the Trump-led right wing will label you an unpatriotic thug as quickly as the left will label you a racist. Remember how Trump and the right reacted to Kaepernick? He still doesn't have a job. This is the right wing version of the cancel culture.

One of the biggest problems, maybe the biggest, in this country is that both sides have their blinders on. The problem is always with the other side. But such is the nature of ideology. Such is the nature of humanity. No one wants to accept blame for their own will to power.

I refuse to be pinned down by either. I'll write-in if I have to, and have before, but I'm not going to be a slave to anyone's ideology.
 
Trump is a populist who uses ultra-nationalism to incite people and the right wing eats it up. Therein lies the roots of fascism. Not saying Trump is fascist anymore than I think the left wing is totalitarian - they both have those tendencies and are leaning too close to them for my comfort level.

Just as the left want you to conform to a certain way of thinking, so does the right. And the Trump-led right wing will label you an unpatriotic thug as quickly as the left will label you a racist. Remember how Trump and the right reacted to Kaepernick? He still doesn't have a job. This is the right wing version of the cancel culture.

One of the biggest problems, maybe the biggest, in this country is that both sides have their blinders on. The problem is always with the other side. But such is the nature of ideology. Such is the nature of humanity. No one wants to accept blame for their own will to power.

I refuse to be pinned down by either. I'll write-in if I have to, and have before, but I'm not going to be a slave to anyone's ideology.
Wow. It seems we have a new definition of "fascism" and "totalitarian".
 
No side is without fault, but by nature, I have a tendency to defend the unpopular against an angry mob. I did that against the war hawks during the war on terror when they saw 'terrorists' everywhere.

But now, I do find myself defending those who were considered to be the church ladies of the past because the pendulum has swung too far regarding the burden of responsibility in this culture war.

The right was definitely given more latitude for about ten years, just after 9-11. But now people perceived to be right wingers are definitely held to a higher level of scrutiny and have less breathing room to make basic mistakes.

Mainly because there seem to be such loose standards and repercussions for character assassination these days. And it seems certain people have a street pass from being held accountable for the same transgressions.

By the way, great OP.
 
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