NonDawg Is Greenville, SC What Athens Should Be?

[LawDawg86]

I live in Cary, NC - we are killing it with our downtown development. There are 5 breweries, just opened a huge park with all sorts of cool amenities. Mixed development with condos, apartments, retail, etc. We are a town of 160K citizens, FWIW.

Haven't been to Athens in a year or so ... did they keep College Ave blocked off for pedestrian use? I know that was a Covid move, but they could do some cool things right there that could be a start. They were working on the sidewalks and some other things when I was there last.

 

[SegaDawg16]

I didn't intend to directly compare the economic potential of Athens and Greenville. Obviously, Greenville is a much larger market than Athens and consequently has more dollars to play with. But as others have said much more eloquently than I can, Athens still has plenty of opportunity to develop into something even greater than it is. It will take decades of good leadership and foresight - I'm not sure Athens has that on the horizon.

 

[accountingdawg2012]

As @Single Barrel Dawg mentioned, we've been opining on this for many years. In the early 2010's the ADDA and city leaders (I believe it was in the early 2010's) took a fact finding mission to Greenville to learn how they turned a downtown area that literally NO ONE wanted to be in during the day or night into one of the south's hottest food and recreation areas. I specifically remember one leader of the effort in Greenville saying the area had become so run down that most folks didn't even realize they had a waterfall in downtown Greenville.

Anyways, they met, listened, and came back to Athens. The consensus from that trip was that there was "no discernible information learned that could help move Athens forward."

Because I don't enjoy the ecosystem of southern South American coastal countries in the current season, I'm going to refrain from saying anything else.

 

[UGAgrad80]

If you’ve ever been to Pearl St in Boulder, CO, I would like to see something similar happen in downtown Athens. A pedestrian mall will great restaurants with outdoor seating, trees and shops (not just bars). Of course, it would have to be a safe environment - not sure that’s going to happen. And yes, I live in Athens, so I know.

 

[hobokengeorgia]

I'm currently in Greenville for a work trip, and it struck me how similar the two downtowns feel...but in my opinion (and I'm sure I'll get destroyed for this), downtown Greenville is what Athens should aspire to be. It's maintained a really unique feel with a lot of outdoor greenspace all while growing into a really diverse dining/shopping district as well. They've somehow avoided feeling like a modern corporate area - it just feels nice in the right ways. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm curious if anyone else on here has had the same (or opposite) thought. Have at it..

Downtown Greenville is great. The city has done it right IMO.

 

[Pugknows]

Athens is a college town that would be Blakely without UGA. Greenville is a legit mid size city with much more going on than just one big employer. It’s not really a fair comparison. Athens is a great town and downtown Athens is exactly what it should be

No. Just no. I live here, and in no way is your last sentence accurate.

 

[shane3fan]

I read this as you saying that Athens could be much nicer if it weren't for all the drunk college kids hanging around. Maybe that was not the intent?

It is more the homeless and nasty feel of most things downtown. Many people don't feel safe downtown and prefer staying away from there at night. Now, 5 points and the area around Creature Comforts is a little better and I'm not slamming Athens in general, it just is not as nice as Greenville currently.

Because Clemson fans are going to have a field day with this thread, I'll be an antagonist.

Greenville's downtown has a charm to it but it's just surface level. There's nothing there with any real tradition or roots to it.

Personally, I'd take Athens the way it is over any section of Greenville. The best bar in that town just closed down a year ago (Barley's). There's no college in that town so that alone keeps it from truly being what Athens is with the young people always keeping things fresh.

If you just want trees in downtown and a nice river walk area and a greenway, just say that about the town. Otherwise no, Athens should never aspire to be what Greenville, SC is.

Clemson fans are lake people for the most part. I see more UGA and SCarolina shirts in Greenville than Clemson.

Did they move Furman to another town?

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

No. Just no. I live here, and in no way is your last sentence accurate.

I don’t live in Athens but I own property there and spend a great deal of time there. I love downtown. Maybe you don’t agree, and that’s fine. It’s a great college city downtown.

 

[jc73dawg]

As does Macon. It’s not bad there and has a lot of room to grow.

Some Macon city officials went to Greenville several years ago to do a study, they have made some big improvements to downtown Macon all for the better. It's a work in progress but it's improving, now if they can do something about all the Black on Black shootings.

 

[Big Dawg 2]

I'm currently in Greenville for a work trip, and it struck me how similar the two downtowns feel...but in my opinion (and I'm sure I'll get destroyed for this), downtown Greenville is what Athens should aspire to be. It's maintained a really unique feel with a lot of outdoor greenspace all while growing into a really diverse dining/shopping district as well. They've somehow avoided feeling like a modern corporate area - it just feels nice in the right ways. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm curious if anyone else on here has had the same (or opposite) thought. Have at it..

It sucks. Athens is Gods Country.

 

[accountingdawg2012]

I don’t live in Athens but I own property there and spend a great deal of time there. I love downtown. Maybe you don’t agree, and that’s fine. It’s a great college city downtown.

Eh man, I agree with 95% of your posts but disagree here. I work in downtown and the homeless issues have gotten to the point where you can’t even walk to lunch without getting hassled. When I was in school here the homeless would ask but not be aggressive - today they’re downright mean and rude if you tell them no. When you don’t feel like even walking 100 yards to lunch through downtown you’ve got an issue, and I'm certainly not alone in this sentiment in my office and building.

 

[ClevelandTnDawg]

I'm currently in Greenville for a work trip, and it struck me how similar the two downtowns feel...but in my opinion (and I'm sure I'll get destroyed for this), downtown Greenville is what Athens should aspire to be. It's maintained a really unique feel with a lot of outdoor greenspace all while growing into a really diverse dining/shopping district as well. They've somehow avoided feeling like a modern corporate area - it just feels nice in the right ways. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm curious if anyone else on here has had the same (or opposite) thought. Have at it..

I agree except the idiots running downtown never were smart enough to incorporate the river into the downtown plans. Utter stupidity.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Eh man, I agree with 95% of your posts but disagree here. I work in downtown and the homeless issues have gotten to the point where you can’t even walk to lunch without getting hassled. When I was in school here the homeless would ask but not be aggressive - today they’re downright mean and rude if you tell them no. When you don’t feel like even walking 100 yards to lunch through downtown you’ve got an issue, and I'm certainly not alone in this sentiment in my office and building.

Okay well the only way to fix that is to either (a) provide them housing or (b) initiate policies that drive the costs of housing significantly lower. It’s not a coincidence that the rise of the football program and Airbnbs has led to an increase in homelessness in Athens.

But for me “seeing homelessness” doesn’t affect my enjoyment of a city. Any city with valuable real estate is going to have that.

 

[accountingdawg2012]

Okay well the only way to fix that is to either (a) provide them housing or (b) initiate policies that drive the costs of housing significantly lower. It’s not a coincidence that the rise of the football program and Airbnbs has led to an increase in homelessness in Athens.

But for me “seeing homelessness” doesn’t affect my enjoyment of a city. Any city with valuable real estate is going to have that.

I don’t disagree. And I don’t mind seeing it. What I mind is getting cussed at and yelled at because I won’t give $20 to someone who’s cracked out and the city just says “WeLl It’S tHeIr RiGhT 🤪” and refuses to do anything to address the issue or the issue of other counties who have literally be caught bussing their homeless into ACC.

 

[rectomo]

I have lived in Greenville twice in my life - dad was an engineer working for JE Sirrine many years ago - and am very pleased with what they did to the downtown area, They deserve to be proud. Greenville's location has always been enviable, very close to the underrated SC mountains.

All that being said, I prefer to keep as far away from Bob Jones as possible.

 

[shane3fan]

I live in Cary, NC - we are killing it with our downtown development. There are 5 breweries, just opened a huge park with all sorts of cool amenities. Mixed development with condos, apartments, retail, etc. We are a town of 160K citizens, FWIW.

Haven't been to Athens in a year or so ... did they keep College Ave blocked off for pedestrian use? I know that was a Covid move, but they could do some cool things right there that could be a start. They were working on the sidewalks and some other things when I was there last.

Yes, that section is still closed off. The tables by The Grill make a wonderful place for the homeless to sleep and hangout.

 

[ARealMunson]

If you’ve ever been to Pearl St in Boulder, CO, I would like to see something similar happen in downtown Athens. A pedestrian mall will great restaurants with outdoor seating, trees and shops (not just bars). Of course, it would have to be a safe environment - not sure that’s going to happen. And yes, I live in Athens, so I know.

Tax base in boulder and Athens might as well be earth and mars.

Been to Greenville. Its clean. It’s lacking in character imo. Especially if Barley’s closed as someone pointed out.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Eh man, I agree with 95% of your posts but disagree here. I work in downtown and the homeless issues have gotten to the point where you can’t even walk to lunch without getting hassled. When I was in school here the homeless would ask but not be aggressive - today they’re downright mean and rude if you tell them no. When you don’t feel like even walking 100 yards to lunch through downtown you’ve got an issue, and I'm certainly not alone in this sentiment in my office and building.

I want to say something:

I laughed at your first sentence because, my man, you don’t have to ever agree with me. We’re all all good on this board. This is family. This board has been here for me during some of the best times in my life and during some really tough days.

I appreciate that you find agreement with me often, but I promise I’m good with the folks on here with whom that isn’t true. This is a great place for me to word vomit sometimes

 

[Arsenal19]

I'm currently in Greenville for a work trip, and it struck me how similar the two downtowns feel...but in my opinion (and I'm sure I'll get destroyed for this), downtown Greenville is what Athens should aspire to be. It's maintained a really unique feel with a lot of outdoor greenspace all while growing into a really diverse dining/shopping district as well. They've somehow avoided feeling like a modern corporate area - it just feels nice in the right ways. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm curious if anyone else on here has had the same (or opposite) thought. Have at it..

Greenville does have a great downtown. I like Athens as well. Downtown Augusta has made a lot of progress, but is 10 years behind Greenville.

 

[ephesiandawg]

I read this as you saying that Athens could be much nicer if it weren't for all the drunk college kids hanging around. Maybe that was not the intent?

It’s not the drunk college kids

 

[GIZMODAWG]

Get the vagrants off the streets in Athens and it becomes 100% better.

 

[Ashedawg]

I'm currently in Greenville for a work trip, and it struck me how similar the two downtowns feel...but in my opinion (and I'm sure I'll get destroyed for this), downtown Greenville is what Athens should aspire to be. It's maintained a really unique feel with a lot of outdoor greenspace all while growing into a really diverse dining/shopping district as well. They've somehow avoided feeling like a modern corporate area - it just feels nice in the right ways. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm curious if anyone else on here has had the same (or opposite) thought. Have at it..

Gville and it’s downtown businesses have multiple BIDs in place and it keeps it clean and attractive

 

[LawDawg86]

I want to say something:

I laughed at your first sentence because, my man, you don’t have to ever agree with me. We’re all all good on this board. This is family. This board has been here for me during some of the best times in my life and during some really tough days.

I appreciate that you find agreement with me often, but I promise I’m good with the folks on here with whom that isn’t true. This is a great place for me to word vomit sometimes

Yeah, well that's just some BS. jk, jk

 

[LawDawg86]

Get the vagrants off the streets in Athens and it becomes 100% better.

It's not hard to to do if you have the political backbone. We have zoning laws that prohibit panhandling and the like. Keeps them away from downtown, the street corners, red lights, etc.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

It's not hard to to do if you have the political backbone. We have zoning laws that prohibit panhandling and the like. Keeps them away from downtown, the street corners, red lights, etc.

But that doesn’t eliminate the problem. What if we actually treated the problem instead of hiding it?

 

[LawDawg86]

But that doesn’t eliminate the problem. What if we actually treated the problem instead of hiding it?

We are talking two different things, IMO. Sure, as a society, we should strive to solve the problem of homelessness. But it's way more than just building more houses. The idea that STRs have caused the homeless problem ignores the reality of what causes homelessness. STRs are a problem in a number of ways: for young people and professionals finding affordable housing, and for affordable housing for the workers, you need to have a vibrant downtown. But neither of those is what the homeless problem is, which is well documented to be more of a mental health and drug problem. So we can agree that we should, as a society, do all we can to solve the mental health, drug, and homeless issues.

Having said that, we can chew gum and walk at the same time. There is nothing wrong with tackling those problems at the same time as you build up a safe and enjoyable downtown area that will drive a tax base that can then be used to solve the first problem. These aren't mutually exclusive goals.

 

[LawDawg86]

Okay well the only way to fix that is to either (a) provide them housing or (b) initiate policies that drive the costs of housing significantly lower. It’s not a coincidence that the rise of the football program and Airbnbs has led to an increase in homelessness in Athens.

But for me “seeing homelessness” doesn’t affect my enjoyment of a city. Any city with valuable real estate is going to have that.

Yeah, I don't see any cause here. This is a prime example of cause v. correlation. As I pointed out in my post above, people aren't homeless because home prices have gone up due to STRs. Mental issues and drugs drive homelessness.

Don't get me wrong, I get that some people are without shelter because they can't afford it. But it's not because downtown condo prices have gone through the roof. There is ample space in Athens for low cost housing if there is the political will to make it happen.

 

[Big-Mocephus]

Athens has a perfectly decent river flowing through town and instead of attractive entertainment district type development along the river we have had stuff like a "greenway" that is essentially a bike path through some thickets and the old O'Malleys on the river converted to Dial America call centers. Local govt all too often wants to make dowtown "accessible' to everyone except people who would come dowtown to shop, work and conduct business. They keep jacking with parking, etc.

It could be so much more.

 

[BaileyDawg79]

All I know is me and @Single Barrel Dawg crushed some cold beers in Greenville in Feb together and it was glorious

 

[Single Barrel Dawg]

That’s your problem

Be well, man. I mean that

 

[ColaDawg21]

I'm currently in Greenville for a work trip, and it struck me how similar the two downtowns feel...but in my opinion (and I'm sure I'll get destroyed for this), downtown Greenville is what Athens should aspire to be. It's maintained a really unique feel with a lot of outdoor greenspace all while growing into a really diverse dining/shopping district as well. They've somehow avoided feeling like a modern corporate area - it just feels nice in the right ways. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm curious if anyone else on here has had the same (or opposite) thought. Have at it..

If you think Greenville is nice, you should come to Gaffney.

 

[HBSDawg]

I read this as you saying that Athens could be much nicer if it weren't for all the drunk college kids hanging around. Maybe that was not the intent?

But there’s truth to it.

 

[Hunkering Dawg]

I didn’t read it that way at all. The problem with Athens is the local government not college students. You’re not going to find that kind of local political environment in Greenville because it’s not a college town. Athens is on its way to becoming San Francisco Jr.

I moved to Greenville from Atlanta 30 years ago. Downtown Greenville is a marvel that city leaders from all over the country come visit to figure out how to bottle and replicate what’s been done here. My simplistic explanation? Take Michelin HQ here, add BMW facility, Fluor HQ, the secret ingredient of almost 50 years of visionary leadership and sprinkle in the happy accident of the emergence of a remarkable foodie culture and, voilà! It’s easy. The leadership piece is the key. We’ve had only 3 different mayors since the 80’s and each one was brilliant in their own way. I love being here.

 

[blake0405]

I spent a week in Athens back in March. Stayed Downtown at the Indigo. I was shocked at how far Downtown has fallen. Homeless / sketchy people everywhere, dirty, soulless development. A seeming complete disregard for historic preservation or complimentary infill development / redevelopment. Amazing it has gotten to this point. On the flip side, Five Points and Normal Time seem to be on the rise, albeit with “elevated” offerings like you basically find anywhere and not the unique places that used to make Athens so awesome.

 

[Boom MFer Dawg]

I'm currently in Greenville for a work trip, and it struck me how similar the two downtowns feel...but in my opinion (and I'm sure I'll get destroyed for this), downtown Greenville is what Athens should aspire to be. It's maintained a really unique feel with a lot of outdoor greenspace all while growing into a really diverse dining/shopping district as well. They've somehow avoided feeling like a modern corporate area - it just feels nice in the right ways. This is obviously just my opinion, but I'm curious if anyone else on here has had the same (or opposite) thought. Have at it..

The politics and vision in Greenville and Athens are polar opposites.

 

[SegaDawg16]

Ifyou think Greenville is nice, you should come to Gaffney.

 

[ColaDawg21]

Home sweet home🤣

 

[rectomo]

Ah...the ass.

 

[911DAWG]

As one who grew up in Athens, we moved to Oconee county because of the actual intimidation on the streets by the left wing elements of Athens. The Mayor and City Council are woke persons who want even more changes. If you are safe in Athens you better have your weapon ready to defend yourself. When democrats get power then abuse the authority and that leaves many who want out. Real estate prices remain high with people from Atlanta moving in every day.. goodby good old days.. 65 Tucked In Oconee

 

[SegaDawg16]

Home sweet home🤣

The first thing I think of any time I hear Gaffney 😂