Is Snowden a Traitor?

[Georgia Knight]

Given that it was a recurring theme of Tulsi's hearings, I'm interested in the DC communities thoughts on the question of whether Snowden is a traitor.

Also trying to measure a generational aspect to the question, so I have Yes/No broken down by whether you are over or under 45 years old. (Tulsi is 43.)

 

[NotSilverBritches]

He’s a criminal. Not a traitor.

 

[Georgia Knight]

He’s a criminal. Not a traitor.

I view this as the correct answer, but this exact answer caused a number of Senators to freak out.

 

[Athens62]

Edward Snowden is a former CIA employee and NSA contractor who, in 2013, leaked classified information revealing extensive global surveillance programs conducted by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) in collaboration with allied governments and major technology companies.

• Born in 1983, Snowden worked in cybersecurity and intelligence.

• He was employed by Dell and later by Booz Allen Hamilton, both contractors for the NSA.

• While working in Hawaii for the NSA, he grew disillusioned with the extent of the government’s surveillance.

The Leak (2013

In May 2013, Snowden fled to Hong Kong with a cache of classified documents. He contacted journalists Glenn Greenwald (The Guardian), Laura Poitras (filmmaker), and Barton Gellman (The Washington Post) to share his findings.

Between June 5 and June 21, 2013, the first NSA leaks were published, revealing:

Key Revelations


1. PRISM Program – The NSA had direct access to user data from major tech companies (Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, etc.) without users’ knowledge.

2. Phone Metadata Collection (Verizon & Beyond) – The NSA was collecting call logs, including time, duration, and numbers involved, of millions of Americans.

3. XKeyscore – A global tool that allowed analysts to search through massive internet data in real-time without prior authorization.

4. MUSCULAR & Tempora – NSA and Britain’s GCHQ intercepted data from fiber-optic cables globally, essentially siphoning data from Google and Yahoo’s internal servers.

5. Spy Operations on Allies – The U.S. was secretly spying on allied nations, including wiretapping German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s phone.

6. Cyberwarfare & Hacking – The U.S. was hacking China and other foreign governments while publicly condemning cyber-attacks.

Snowden’s Escape

• As the leaks became public, the U.S. charged Snowden with Espionage (June 21, 2013).

• He fled Hong Kong to Moscow, intending to seek asylum elsewhere, but the U.S. revoked his passport while he was in transit.

• Snowden was stuck in the Moscow airport for weeks, unable to travel further.


• Russia granted him temporary asylum (1 year) in August 2013.


• He later obtained permanent residency in Russia and was eventually granted Russian citizenship in 2022.





Aftermath


• U.S. Government Reaction – Officials claimed the leaks harmed national security and aided U.S. adversaries.


• Public Debate – Many saw Snowden as a hero, while others labeled him a traitor.


• Policy Changes – The USA Freedom Act (2015) curtailed some bulk data collection but left much of the surveillance apparatus intact.


• Snowden’s Life – He remains in Russia, married Lindsay Mills, and continues to advocate for privacy rights.

Impact on Global Surveillance

Snowden’s revelations exposed the vast scale of government surveillance and sparked a global conversation on privacy. Governments were forced to acknowledge their surveillance activities, and tech companies improved encryption as a response.

While some view him as a whistleblower, others argue he endangered national security. The debate over privacy vs. security remains unresolved.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

It's complicated. Leaking the info that we were screwing with China could and should lead to serious charges. Otoh, exposing unlawful activity by the U.S. federal government is closer to being a heroic whistleblower imo. Of course we all want our fed gov to have the tools to find threats but we also need to protect the civil rights of the average citizens.

 

[TivoliDawg]

Given that it was a recurring theme of Tulsi's hearings, I'm interested in the DC communities thoughts on the question of whether Snowden is a traitor.

Also trying to measure a generational aspect to the question, so I have Yes/No broken down by whether you are over or under 45 years old. (Tulsi is 43.)

He’s a former contractor who stole classified documents and gave them to our adversaries; China and Russia. If that’s not a traitor, then we are using different definitions.

This board is calling everyone and everything “treason!!!” “Traitor!!” These days, so it’s weird if you apply that label to people Donald Trump simply does not like vs. an actual traitor to our country.

 

[TivoliDawg]

It's complicated. Leaking the info that we were screwing with China could and should lead to serious charges. Otoh, exposing unlawful activity by the U.S. federal government is closer to being a heroic whistleblower imo. Of course we all want our fed gov to have the tools to find threats but we also need to protect the civil rights of the average citizens.

This level of nuance will not be tolerated here.

 

[TivoliDawg]

It's complicated. Leaking the info that we were screwing with China could and should lead to serious charges. Otoh, exposing unlawful activity by the U.S. federal government is closer to being a heroic whistleblower imo. Of course we all want our fed gov to have the tools to find threats but we also need to protect the civil rights of the average citizens.

Maybe I am not recalling it, what was unlawful? About 90% of what he described still goes on today. Maybe 99%

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

Maybe I am not recalling it, what was unlawful? About 90% of what he described still goes on today. Maybe 99%

My biggest issue was collecting data on American citizens without probable cause or a warrant. I know it still goes on but if there was some good that came out of Snowden's actions is it alerted the American public that their government was abusing the Patriot Act.

 

[Georgia Knight]

He’s a former contractor who stole classified documents and gave them to our adversaries; China and Russia. If that’s not a traitor, then we are using different definitions.

This board is calling everyone and everything “treason!!!” “Traitor!!” These days, so it’s weird if you apply that label to people Donald Trump simply does not like vs. an actual traitor to our country.

I don't think Snowden actually gave the classified documents to China and Russia. He claims, and I recognize the face value that we can place on that, that he did not bring them to Russia and that he encrypted them in a way that he could not access them in Hong Kong.

Now he did provide them to journalists, and it's quite possible that China and Russia was able to take them from their computers. It's also quite possible that China and Russia had the files before Snowden took them, because of deeper security concerns.

Here is a good analysis of this:

China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them.

www.wired.com

Even the worst case scenario though, that Snowden gave files to journalists who were not equipped to hold them, I think that is categorically different than explicitly offering them to foreign advisories.

I think there is also the point of what Snowden was producing: unconstitutional actions the government was taking on citizens. If one views treason as actions against the people of the United States, the government's actions could themselves be considered treasonous in this example. If treason is defined as actions taken against the government, however, than Snowden certainly fits that bill. That being said, I'm not going to defend every claim of "treason!" and "traitor" suggested by the fine folks of the forum.

 

[Georgia Knight]

Maybe I am not recalling it, what was unlawful? About 90% of what he described still goes on today. Maybe 99%

Federal Courts in 2020 ruled that aspects of what Snowden revealed were illegal.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us-court-mass-surveillance-program-exposed-by-snowden-was-illegal-idUSKBN25T3CJ/

 

[TivoliDawg]

My biggest issue was collecting data on American citizens without probable cause or a warrant. I know it still goes on but if there was some good that came out of Snowden's actions is it alerted the American public that their government was abusing the Patriot Act.

I disagree that it was abused. To the best of my memory, it collected meta data, not data. And anything beyond the metadata needed a warrant.

This is how the FBI and NSA caught the Brooklyn Bridge bomber before he did it.

 

[TivoliDawg]

I don't think Snowden actually gave the classified documents to China and Russia. He claims, and I recognize the face value that we can place on that, that he did not bring them to Russia and that he encrypted them in a way that he could not access them in Hong Kong.

Now he did provide them to journalists, and it's quite possible that China and Russia was able to take them from their computers. It's also quite possible that China and Russia had the files before Snowden took them, because of deeper security concerns.

Here is a good analysis of this:

China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them.

www.wired.com

Even the worst case scenario though, that Snowden gave files to journalists who were not equipped to hold them, I think that is categorically different than explicitly offering them to foreign advisories.

I think there is also the point of what Snowden was producing: unconstitutional actions the government was taking on citizens. If one views treason as actions against the people of the United States, the government's actions could themselves be considered treasonous in this example. If treason is defined as actions taken against the government, however, than Snowden certainly fits that bill. That being said, I'm not going to defend every claim of "treason!" and "traitor" suggested by the fine folks of the forum.

I read that article. Disagree with it. The author stays that it’s basically not Snowden’s fault because it is likely that our intelligence services were already hacked and, therefore, Snowden would have offered them documents they already had.

Interesting theory.

In my opinion, it’s clear this is a sympathetic article for Snowden and it’s completely based on a hypothesis.

 

[TivoliDawg]

Federal Courts in 2020 ruled that aspects of what Snowden revealed were illegal.

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us-court-mass-surveillance-program-exposed-by-snowden-was-illegal-idUSKBN25T3CJ/

I see. I was looking for something more recent but I couldn’t find anything. I guess that means the 9th BBC circuit ruling is final?

I saw several rulings not from the 9th circuit ruling against Snowden.

Most of those programs remain so I’m assuming they’re not unconstitutional.

Phone metadata in particular is super helpful but may be unconstitutional.

 

[MaitlandFloridaDawg]

It's complicated. Leaking the info that we were screwing with China could and should lead to serious charges. Otoh, exposing unlawful activity by the U.S. federal government is closer to being a heroic whistleblower imo. Of course we all want our fed gov to have the tools to find threats but we also need to protect the civil rights of the average citizens.

It’s not complicated. He leaked classified information just because he didn’t agree with it. He’s a traitor.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

Given that it was a recurring theme of Tulsi's hearings, I'm interested in the DC communities thoughts on the question of whether Snowden is a traitor.

Also trying to measure a generational aspect to the question, so I have Yes/No broken down by whether you are over or under 45 years old. (Tulsi is 43.)

What does this have to do with Tulsi? I don’t get the connection.

 

[Athens62]

It's complicated. Leaking the info that we were screwing with China could and should lead to serious charges. Otoh, exposing unlawful activity by the U.S. federal government is closer to being a heroic whistleblower imo. Of course we all want our fed gov to have the tools to find threats but we also need to protect the civil rights of the average citizens.

I think the cat out of the bag - is they were actively spying on Allies & US Citizens. I think it’s expected that we would spy on potential threats! He leaked Deep State is real!!!

 

[Georgia Knight]

What does this have to do with Tulsi? I don’t get the connection.

This topic came up multiple times in her hearing, and her refusal to say "yes" has been pointed to as the largest negative strike against her performance.

 

[Georgia Knight]

It’s not complicated. He leaked classified information just because he didn’t agree with it. He’s a traitor.

It's not that he simply disagreed, it was unconstitutional and FedGov was lying about it.

 

[Zonadog]

This topic came up multiple times in her hearing, and her refusal to say "yes" has been pointed to as the largest negative strike against her performance.

Correct answer for Gabbard was "that is for the courts to decide." It would be outside her scope as Director of National Intelligence to make that determination.

The question itself is an attempt (repeated several times throughout the day) to force her into a no win response of yes or no. If yes, then it is inappropriate for her to have a position on the outcome prior to investigation and I can't vote for your confirmation. If no, she loses support from Senators on both sides of the aisle.

 

[agentorange70]

Edward Snowden findings confirmed that the US intelligence mechanisms meant for surveiling foreign enemies were being used by the USA govt for domestic purposes against it's own people.

If Edward Snowden is a criminal,...than so is Oscar Schindler for telling lies to the German authorities in order to save the lives of his jewish factory workers during WW2.

Some laws are meant to be broken for the right reason

 

[boomer79]

if he had gone to Congress he’d be a whistleblower. He went to the press so he’s a traitor. I’m right on the line exactly 45.

 

[The Original SLC Dawg]

if he had gone to Congress he’d be a whistleblower. He went to the press so he’s a traitor. I’m right on the line exactly 45.

He must have watched “Three Days of the Condor”

 

[pawd]

He must have watched “Three Days of the Condor”

Presently roosting in Russia as a citizen, what the hell is there to debate. Of course he's a traitor. To argue otherwise is laughable.

 

[atlanta cock#]

 

[dawgfood0612]

He gave away secrets just like the Rosenbergs.

Too bad he didn’t get the same punishment.