I've found that attitudes about marijuana are a good litmus test about people and their general...

[Boost Assendahm]

ability to identify with every day people. E.g, I've noticed that people who call marijuana "dope" or worse, "whacky backy", tend to be a little out of touch. This leads me to to the POTUS debate the other night, and the prevailing attitude on stage, specifically regarding "marijuana being a gateway drug". To just categorically say this about a fairly important issue, troubles me. Nobody could accuse the candidates on stage of being stupid, but it does give me pause regarding their analytical skills. Just because there is correlation, doesn't mean there's causation. By the flawed logic on stage, cigarettes and alcohol are also gateway drugs. But nobody is crying about them, not with their lobbies, and they actually kill. And just because people work their way up the ladder with experimentation, doesn't mean that there's anything connecting weed to heroin or meth. With that level of willingness to understand a simpler issue like this, makes me wonder about their ability to process far more complicated issues.

It's also worth noting what effect policing, processing and punishment have on government dollars made available at the national and local level to WAGE the WAR on DRUGS. If some of us would just take the time to sit down and tally the score of how much money (tax money, our money) is spent on that least effective of all wars we've ever known, we would be amazed and probably angered. Add to those billions of dollars how much more tax revenue would be generated by those who "choose" to purchase marijuana. Legalizing (decriminalizing if you please) marijuana does NOTHING positive for Mexico or the Central or South American countries, whose #1 cash crop is/was marijuana. Just talking about marijuana and its derivatives only. No one wants to legalize heroin or meth or cocaine or the most abused of them all, prescription pain medications.

As for those citizens, who tend to be addictive to everything in life that is bad for them, they will find a way to ruin their lives and/or kill themselves with or without drugs, alcohol, cigarettes or guns. They are weak and want to get weaker. Some of us ruin our own lives trying to help steer them toward better choices. After offering friends and family multiple chances to figure things out, there comes a moment of reckoning, when you have to fish or cut bait. Thinning the herd is part of nature's way of allowing the rest of the herd to survive. It's the green thing to do.

 

[dieharddawg62]

It's also worth noting what effect policing, processing and punishment have on government dollars made available at the national and local level to WAGE the WAR on DRUGS. If some of us would just take the time to sit down and tally the score of how much money (tax money, our money) is spent on that least effective of all wars we've ever known, we would be amazed and probably angered. Add to those billions of dollars how much more tax revenue would be generated by those who "choose" to purchase marijuana. Legalizing (decriminalizing if you please) marijuana does NOTHING positive for Mexico or the Central or South American countries, whose #1 cash crop is/was marijuana. Just talking about marijuana and its derivatives only. No one wants to legalize heroin or meth or cocaine or the most abused of them all, prescription pain medications.

As for those citizens, who tend to be addictive to everything in life that is bad for them, they will find a way to ruin their lives and/or kill themselves with or without drugs, alcohol, cigarettes or guns. They are weak and want to get weaker. Some of us ruin our own lives trying to help steer them toward better choices. After offering friends and family multiple chances to figure things out, there comes a moment of reckoning, when you have to fish or cut bait. Thinning the herd is part of nature's way of allowing the rest of the herd to survive. It's the green thing to do.

As smart as you seem to be, you know absolutely nothing about alcoholism or drug addiction. But, that is okay, the only way you could know is to be addicted to something.

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

I'm conflicted on this one. I recognize the hypocrisy regarding alcohol. But, I also recognize that adding yet another drug to the legal side of the balance sheet isn't good for society. Look no further than Moonbeam Brown out in California. Even that nutbag says that California cannot compete with the world if everyone is high.

The other issue is the health costs. Now that the lefties have people like me subsidizing their healthcare, shouldn't we be a little more cognizant of the effect of drugs (and junk food)?

Let me put it this way, even if I weren't a Libertarian with a live/let live philosophy, or even if I believed that the government should have the right to save you from yourself, my knowledge on the subject would still compell me to favor the legalization of marijuana, for no other reason, that it's a healthy alternative to alcohol. The chance of a person getting out and driving high are virtually nil, but even if they do, they certainly won't be hot dogging. 2. You willl never commit an act of violence on pot. You'll never hear about someone smoking pot and hitting their wife, starting a fight or jacking a car. 3. Nobody has ever OD'd on pot. That's a track record that's hard to beat.

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

It's also worth noting what effect policing, processing and punishment have on government dollars made available at the national and local level to WAGE the WAR on DRUGS. If some of us would just take the time to sit down and tally the score of how much money (tax money, our money) is spent on that least effective of all wars we've ever known, we would be amazed and probably angered. Add to those billions of dollars how much more tax revenue would be generated by those who "choose" to purchase marijuana. Legalizing (decriminalizing if you please) marijuana does NOTHING positive for Mexico or the Central or South American countries, whose #1 cash crop is/was marijuana. Just talking about marijuana and its derivatives only. No one wants to legalize heroin or meth or cocaine or the most abused of them all, prescription pain medications.

As for those citizens, who tend to be addictive to everything in life that is bad for them, they will find a way to ruin their lives and/or kill themselves with or without drugs, alcohol, cigarettes or guns. They are weak and want to get weaker. Some of us ruin our own lives trying to help steer them toward better choices. After offering friends and family multiple chances to figure things out, there comes a moment of reckoning, when you have to fish or cut bait. Thinning the herd is part of nature's way of allowing the rest of the herd to survive. It's the green thing to do.

If people realized how many murders internationally were because of our prohibition of marijuana, or if they realized that an industrial complex has heen created on just criminalization peaceful people, they would realize that how wrong we'been. It's simply immoral to prosecute peaceful people who hurt nobody.

 

[oletex]

The US library of medicine says studies are showing that marijuana use has an effect on cognition for 6 weeks on an elevated basis then abstinence reduces that effect. But on the contrary the same or more frequent use tends to elongate the effect. So the prolonged use of marijuana has a prolonged effect and at some point a suspected permanent effect. But hey, that's your business.

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

The US library of medicine says studies are showing that marijuana use has an effect on cognition for 6 weeks on an elevated basis then abstinence reduces that effect. But on the contrary the same or more frequent use tends to elongate the effect. So the prolonged use of marijuana has a prolonged effect and at some point a suspected permanent effect. But hey, that's your business.

Like UGAfish and I have repeatedly told you, go tell that to the high functioning people who smoke/smoked it, including at least eleven US presidents. And you mentioned captains of industry, well, Steve Jobs wasn't the only pot smoker among them. You're just so committed to this cause, that no reason or logic in the world would compell you to think otherwise. I just hope you're not as miserable as you seem. I will say this, people who are so hateful and close minded (as you appear), are a bigger plight on our society than people who smoke pot and aren't so consumed by hate.

 

[Boost Assendahm]

As smart as you seem to be, you know absolutely nothing about alcoholism or drug addiction. But, that is okay, the only way you could know is to be addicted to something.

You're right that I am not an addict, except maybe to french fries. But my grandfather, my father and my youngest brother, all much more talented than the rest of us, all addicts (alcohol, alcohol and prescription pain meds). Two are dead (one suicide), and the other is doing his best to skate into his own grave. Though I've not experienced drug or alcohol addiction in my body, I've been painfully exposed to it on a very close and ugly and personal level. I have learned one absolute about it. Unless someone wants to help themselves, they never ever get better. In fact, they continue to get worse and worse and have no ability to avoid pulling down friends and loved ones with them.

I've bailed out my youngest brother (prescription pain meds) several times. He's lived with us and with his other brother's family off and on for the past 15 years as he "tries" to do right. Both of us have sat with him, counseled him, cried with him, gotten jobs for him (risking our reputation and integrity by recommending him) only to have him steal from those employers and get fired for stealing and/or being high on the job. He's been in 6 different (at our expense) rehabilitation programs. The last straw was after his 6th rehab. He convinced all of us that he was all better and moved in with our Mother supposedly to provide security for her and to find a job while playing piano in the church. Over two years time he stole ALL of our mother's life savings to support his "needs."

So, do you keep trying to teach the great white how to fetch or do you just get the hell out of the water? And who's giving out trophies for risking your health and ruining your business and family relationships foolishly trying to help (and only further enabling) someone who does not want your help, just more of your cash. A drowning man will drown you if you let him. The pain is not all about the addict. The addict's "suffering" is the least of the pain he mindlessly slings around.

None of my addicted, loved ones ever smoked pot or cared to even try it.

As for folks who smoke pot and show little ambition in life. I have to believe, again from personal experience in this life, that there are those of us who are naturally less ambitious or focused or intense than others, and whatever they or their loved ones want to blame that on is up to them and their imaginations. Socio-economic factors, neighborhood, education, family life, sexual preferences/problems, self image, health, ethnicity, or any other potential factor that we can BLAME for our circumstances and our ability to transcend or take advantage of those circumstances will be used at some point by someone to deflect from their personal accountability. This is what they do, primarily because we either allow or encourage them to do it. So, in my personal opinion, we need to STOP enabling our friends and family members' addictions. Just stop it.

 

[Fivehade]

You're right that I am not an addict, except maybe to french fries. But my grandfather, my father and my youngest brother, all much more talented than the rest of us, all addicts (alcohol, alcohol and prescription pain meds). Two are dead (one suicide), and the other is doing his best to skate into his own grave. Though I've not experienced drug or alcohol addiction in my body, I've been painfully exposed to it on a very close and ugly and personal level. I have learned one absolute about it. Unless someone wants to help themselves, they never ever get better. In fact, they continue to get worse and worse and have no ability to avoid pulling down friends and loved ones with them.

I've bailed out my youngest brother (prescription pain meds) several times. He's lived with us and with his other brother's family off and on for the past 15 years as he "tries" to do right. Both of us have sat with him, counseled him, cried with him, gotten jobs for him (risking our reputation and integrity by recommending him) only to have him steal from those employers and get fired for stealing and/or being high on the job. He's been in 6 different (at our expense) rehabilitation programs. The last straw was after his 6th rehab. He convinced all of us that he was all better and moved in with our Mother supposedly to provide security for her and to find a job while playing piano in the church. Over two years time he stole ALL of our mother's life savings to support his "needs."

So, do you keep trying to teach the great white how to fetch or do you just get the hell out of the water? And who's giving out trophies for risking your health and ruining your business and family relationships foolishly trying to help (and only further enabling) someone who does not want your help, just more of your cash. A drowning man will drown you if you let him. The pain is not all about the addict. The addict's "suffering" is the least of the pain he mindlessly slings around.

None of my addicted, loved ones ever smoked pot or cared to even try it.

As for folks who smoke pot and show little ambition in life. I have to believe, again from personal experience in this life, that there are those of us who are naturally less ambitious or focused or intense than others, and whatever they or their loved ones want to blame that on is up to them and their imaginations. Socio-economic factors, neighborhood, education, family life, sexual preferences/problems, self image, health, ethnicity, or any other potential factor that we can BLAME for our circumstances and our ability to transcend or take advantage of those circumstances will be used at some point by someone to deflect from their personal accountability. This is what they do, primarily because we either allow or encourage them to do it. So, in my personal opinion, we need to STOP enabling our friends and family members' addictions. Just stop it.

Yup

 

[oletex]

Like UGAfish and I have repeatedly told you, go tell that to the high functioning people who smoke/smoked it, including at least eleven US presidents. And you mentioned captains of industry, well, Steve Jobs wasn't the only pot smoker among them. You're just so committed to this cause, that no reason or logic in the world would compell you to think otherwise. I just hope you're not as miserable as you seem. I will say this, people who are so hateful and close minded (as you appear), are a bigger plight on our society than people who smoke pot and aren't so consumed by hate.

Obviously I've hurt your sensitive feelings. Just a word though, don't come on a chat board with a weak attempt to be self serving, painting with a broad brush with damn little factual info unless you are open to being brought to terms. Or disagreed with. OTOH, I opened myself up by posting here, knowing some of the stranger than strange elements that also participate. So touche for reaffirming that. Carry on, the world needs about a billion more just like you.

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

Obviously I've hurt your sensitive feelings. Just a word though, don't come on a chat board with a weak attempt to be self serving, painting with a broad brush with damn little factual info unless you are open to being brought to terms. Or disagreed with. OTOH, I opened myself up by posting here, knowing some of the stranger than strange elements that also participate. So touche for reaffirming that. Carry on, the world needs about a billion more just like you.

My feelings toward you are grounded solely in pity. BTW, you have zero ground to accuse anyone of broad stroking (you provided almost no statistical, whereas I did. And your argument almost exclusively annecdotal and emotional). Good luck with this sort of thing in the future.

 

[Fivehade]

My feeling about Marijuana is that most users I've ever known pretty much go though most of life stuck in the mud, like they are just in perpetual slow motion.

Though I know you raised the possibility of high functioning pot smokers with your earlier comments, I think similar can also be said for alcoholics as well....lots of high functioning alkys out there, most of them ruining their health and their families, but doing it legally. I've never understood the potheads saying because alcohol is legal, so should weed be legal....it's bad for you, just like weed, just like heroin, just like cocaine

I've had family members as chronic, chronic users, and friends from HS and college ....pretty much all of them are low energy, lower intelligence people as a result. Seems like it just turns people into dependent leeches off the rest of us imo

I did smoke a little herb last year in Amsterdam ....it was ok. My wife liked it more than me, but she doesn't have to work for a living, I do . That was prolly the first time in 20 years I touched the stuff

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

My feeling about Marijuana is that most users I've ever known pretty much go though most of life stuck in the mud, like they are just in perpetual slow motion.

Though I know you raised the possibility of high functioning pot smokers with your earlier comments, I think similar can also be said for alcoholics as well....lots of high functioning alkys out there, most of them ruining their health and their families, but doing it legally. I've never understood the potheads saying because alcohol is legal, so should weed be legal....it's bad for you, just like weed, just like heroin, just like cocaine

I've had family members as chronic, chronic users, and friends from HS and college ....pretty much all of them are low energy, lower intelligence people as a result. Seems like it just turns people into dependent leeches off the rest of us imo

I did smoke a little herb last year in Amsterdam ....it was ok. My wife liked it more than me, but she doesn't have to work for a living, I do . That was prolly the first time in 20 years I touched the stuff

My feeling about Marijuana is that most users I've ever known pretty much go though most of life stuck in the mud, like they are just in perpetual slow motion.

Though I know you raised the possibility of high functioning pot smokers with your earlier comments, I think similar can also be said for alcoholics as well....lots of high functioning alkys out there, most of them ruining their health and their families, but doing it legally. I've never understood the potheads saying because alcohol is legal, so should weed be legal....it's bad for you, just like weed, just like heroin, just like cocaine

I've had family members as chronic, chronic users, and friends from HS and college ....pretty much all of them are low energy, lower intelligence people as a result. Seems like it just turns people into dependent leeches off the rest of us imo

I did smoke a little herb last year in Amsterdam ....it was ok. My wife liked it more than me, but she doesn't have to work for a living, I do . That was prolly the first time in 20 years I touched the stuff

My thing is this... does it mellow people out? Yes. Do people often smoke too much? Perhaps. But smoking too much pot is like eating too.much cake. A serving alone will never kill you. And on some level , people should have the liberty to make mistakes, especially if the activity isn't hurting anyone. The juxtaposition of pot to alcohol is used because it's a valuable comparison. But what about the idea that having something recreational that won't prompt you to hit your wife or make you go out driving while under the influence. Just because there are people who don't consume in moderation, it doesn't mean it's all about the product. Pot isn't that hard to put away for a while, if need be (unlike every other drug mentioned in this thread). But all of this aside, the bottom line is, prohibition of the stuff is immoral and causes far greater problems. Especially with regards to the dangerous black market and the unnecessary criminal element surrounding drug dealers. People really don't seem to be very aware of the negative unintended consequences of making the culture of consuming marijuana seedy, and empowering bad people.

 

[MinnesotaDawg]

I'm conflicted on this one. I recognize the hypocrisy regarding alcohol. But, I also recognize that adding yet another drug to the legal side of the balance sheet isn't good for society. Look no further than Moonbeam Brown out in California. Even that nutbag says that California cannot compete with the world if everyone is high.

The other issue is the health costs. Now that the lefties have people like me subsidizing their healthcare, shouldn't we be a little more cognizant of the effect of drugs (and junk food)?

Aaahhh....perfect illustration of the freedom destroying effects of socialized activity. Collective subsidy confers collective control, every time.

 

[HeulenHund2]

Drugs are good for one thing. ID'ing & thinning out the losers. But hey it's your thing, do what you wanna do. Just stay the hell away from me with your paranoia (by product). I've seen hundreds if not thousands of lost balls in high weeds who can't find their azz with both hands and can't be trusted.

You can't trust drug users because of the cost and the fact they have to lie and keep secrets or go to jail.
Most of the worst ''crimes of passion'' and deaths of innocent people in accidents come from alcohol consumption.
Imagine if those against weed had the statistics we have on alcohol use to back up their thinking. They'd want to execute dealers, yet they seem ok with the trillions of dollars and 100s of thousands of lives lost from the abuse of alcohol.

 

[dieharddawg62]

You can't trust drug users because of the cost and the fact they have to lie and keep secrets or go to jail.
Most of the worst ''crimes of passion'' and deaths of innocent people in accidents come from alcohol consumption.
Imagine if those against weed had the statistics we have on alcohol use to back up their thinking. They'd want to execute dealers, yet they seem ok with the trillions of dollars and 100s of thousands of lives lost from the abuse of alcohol.

If alcohol was 200 dollars a bottle, you would have alcoholics stealing money to supply their habit.

 

[oletex]

You can't trust drug users because of the cost and the fact they have to lie and keep secrets or go to jail.
Most of the worst ''crimes of passion'' and deaths of innocent people in accidents come from alcohol consumption.
Imagine if those against weed had the statistics we have on alcohol use to back up their thinking. They'd want to execute dealers, yet they seem ok with the trillions of dollars and 100s of thousands of lives lost from the abuse of alcohol.

AWWW, another of the long line of since we have all these others evils ruining lives why not add more misery logic. Pretty obvious many slow witted pot heads here are desperate to legitimize their weaknesses. No problem with me. Long as you keep your distance and stay across the tracks.

 

[oletex]

My feelings toward you are grounded solely in pity. BTW, you have zero ground to accuse anyone of broad stroking (you provided almost no statistical, whereas I did. And your argument almost exclusively annecdotal and emotional). Good luck with this sort of thing in the future.

I'll be watching for your posts in the future to see what other drivel you have "found"....

 

[BaronVonHeinsteidel]

I'll be watching for your posts in the future to see what other drivel you have "found"....

Glad to know I have a fan. Always wanted a stalker.

 

[HeulenHund2]

AWWW, another of the long line of since we have all these others evils ruining lives why not add more misery logic. Pretty obvious many slow witted pot heads here are desperate to legitimize their weaknesses. No problem with me. Long as you keep your distance and stay across the tracks.

Yea, that must be it. I lived in Colorado after it became legal and didn't buy or smoke, I quit the stuff decades ago, save for a social toke here and there.
How ancient do you have to be to think like you ? 80 or older maybe.

 

[HeulenHund2]

If alcohol was 200 dollars a bottle, you would have alcoholics stealing money to supply their habit.

Yep, and not just single malt.

 

[oletex]

Glad to know I have a fan. Always wanted a stalker.

Speaking of stalkers how do you like the smell of my fawts and what did I have for dinner last evening? (Snicker)

 

[oletex]

Yea, that must be it. I lived in Colorado after it became legal and didn't buy or smoke, I quit the stuff decades ago, save for a social toke here and there.
How ancient do you have to be to think like you ? 80 or older maybe.

Long time toker, big time joker. That would explain a lot in your case. As I said, knock yourself out, you deserve it. BTW are you one of those "wilderness types" kind of a unibomber look and life style?