Not often you see the VP be the attack dog with the president sitting right beside you. Could you imagine Kamala trying to do the same with one of her word salads? So thankful that we finally have leadership in the WH.
JD Vance: powerful leadership
- Thread starter BlessedDawg
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Honestly, if there could have been a do-over, thinks they should have had things all hashed out behind closed doors before going live….both sides.
With that said, still thought that Zelenskyy should have never been disrespectful. He and his country are the ones with the bigger need.
“Don’t bite the hand that feeds you”
Hope they get it worked out, don’t give a rat’s azz about Zelenskyy - but I do about others over there.
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Someone stated Z had lunch with the Dems before he met with Trump and his cabinet. If this is true then I can see why he was so upset with Trump. The Dems are going to do everything they can to destroy the deal between them. They are probably filling his head full of lies about Trump and his Cabinet.
Maybe, wouldn’t be surprised.
But from my understanding the mineral rights had already been agreed to (step 2??). The “guaranteed security” hadn’t been.
Point is, all of this should have been agreed to before they broadcasted it to the world.
That why everyone told Z not to address the next steps. But he did. The rest history.
Who knows what lie democrats told him. Jeez, he was probably getting money from USAid, like the rest of them.
He had a meeting with a bi-partisan group of Senators, not just Democrats.
At a minimum, it looks disheveled and chaotic. Not surprised.
Yeah it’s a pretty bad look for both sides. Both leaders have a responsibility to their countries to do much better than that
No doubt and I am sure the Trump haters will continue to use that. But the way I look at it, he is trying to negotiate peace. To me - that is a good thing, kudos to him.
How many have done that?
He will make some mistakes along the way during his tenure, they all have. But my money is on him bettering what was left for him.
He definitely has our best interests FWIS.
Leverage is of no value if you never use it. Ukraine would be a smoldering crater if not for US aid.
We dictate the terms, Z. Yesterday made some folks uncomfortable, but it was a useful moment to put Z in his place.
Strength wins.
We dictate the terms, Z. Yesterday made some folks uncomfortable, but it was a useful moment to put Z in his place.
Strength wins.
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Hoping we stay strong against the invaders as well as the ones being invaded is all. Abandoning Ukraine and letting Russia have whatever it wants would be the opposite of strength in my eyes but I’m sure not everyone feels that way
It's a nice sentiment, but Ukraine's only hope is NATO and Z is desperate to gain access to NATO. That would drag the US into a military conflict with Russia. Yeah, we aren't interested in that (nor is Russia).
Z - you've fought bravely, but it's time to make a deal. Wars are ended through concessions. Z and Ukraine can die in a smoldering crater if they so choose. If they want any form of survival, cut a deal. Those are the terms, and we set the terms.
In this light….i see the logic in allowing the world to see that it just might be Z who is avoiding the peace deal. His intentions may be good (may not be too)….but in any event, the World might have needed a reality check in terms of the chances of Ukraine winning, and realistic terms that would bring Peace. Realistic.
Those of us who do business deals for a living seem to understand this thing better than those who spent a career at the Kennedy School of Government straight into politics or academia.
Some of the most legendary business people in history have employed the use of very public and harsh words as an effective negotiating tactic…..preceding the eventual handshakes and smiles.
Yesterday looked spontaneous, but it was a calculated charade for the public, IMO. Z got neutered. He's already backpedaling publicly. It was very effective for US interests.
And I continue to ask what deal is that? If we’ve weakened ukraine so bad then why would Russia ever agree to stop? I feel like we all just want to ignore the elephant in the room that Russia is the only true winner the way this is headed and pretend it’s a win for us
Unless I’m misinterpreting what you mean by make a deal. Any deal where Russia “agrees” to not invade again but we won’t do anything if they do is a complete waste to me. If this is all a negotiation for extra minerals and we still support them then that’s fine, but that sentiment is starting to shift in a major way
You're sounding a bit like Zelensky. He wants Ukraine's protection guaranteed. The only way to guarantee that is for the US to be willing to respond to Russian aggression militarily. NOT gonna happen, nor should it.
BUT, you can create a really strong deterrent by giving us a mineral mining deal that in part pays us back for the aid we've given Ukraine, but strategically places US civilians and interests in Ukraine such that a stray missile from Russia killing a US citizen might prompt a military response by the US. We KNOW Russia doesn't want that.
Trump and Putin want nothing to do with a a conflict with each other. That's a good thing. To ensure that, they ironically have to align against Zelensky to ensure that.
Could be wrong, but pretty sure all of those European countries (NATO) don’t want to fight their war.
There is a reason they can’t get approved by NATO, Germany & France (I believe) fought it - along with a few other countries thru the years.
Thinks Ukraine has been boxed in, the US is their hope. Zelenskyy didn’t handle any of this well - should have just kept his mouth shut.
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You said something here that’s important. The right thing, the best thing, is often going to be uncomfortable for most people. Everyone wants to feel good and whatever the means to that end is considered “right.” Any means that produce something contrary to the desired end is seen as “evil.” When in reality, the “evil” thing is actually the means that produce a euphoric end and the “right” thing is the means that is contrary to the euphoric end. This is why relativism is extremely flawed. The uncomfortable means, if endured, will eventually produce the best outcome for all people.
I don’t think it was pre-meditated other than likely discussed how they should play it if Z tries to use his camera time to advance his own negotiating points…..I am guessing JD had the green light but only if Z tried to draw first blood.
Fully expect JD to be our POTUS in 4 years! Trumps legacy.
JD was locked and loaded. When was the last time a VP scolded a world leader in the Oval Office in front of the media? He was the appointed trigger man.
This is the deal on the table. And reading tea leaves the only party not on board is Z.
The US invests money, people, and resources in Ukraine to mine rare earth. Providing a deterrent but not putting military presence there.
Any post war security forces are provided by the EU.
Territorial lines freeze as they are now.
Ukraine is not in NATO consideration.
That’s the deal there for all to accept, and it sounds as if only one party won’t accept it. The one whose country is being torn apart yet propped up by the US.
It’s because the Dem’s - Deep state don’t want it. Z is their pawn.Dem’s want Ukraine in NATO - Military Industrial complex. The Dem’s are neither pro-democracy or liberal.
Agreed. Z threw him a 74 mph “what kind of diplomacy?” hanger and he responded with the most effective line of the event:
“I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country,"
And in stark contrast to 3 years of trying to look tough towards Putin and not engaging whatsoever. Again - the difference in deal making and thesis writing in government academia. The minute it was clear this war couldn’t be won by Ukraine is the minute Biden should have brokered a peace deal.
If only Kamala was the negotiator in chief, we would have peace.
So the play is essentially increase economic relations with Ukraine to the point where Putin will no longer mess with them? I suppose it’s possible but as a Ukrainian I wouldn’t believe for a second the US would actually help when Russia backs out on the deal again. You’re right though Ukraine is in a weaker negotiating position so taking advantage of that could be smart. I just don’t like pretending that’s strength
You said it: The conditions Ukraine wants aren’t on the table. And they aren’t in a position to hold out.
Thinks the part where Zelenskyy said every country has their problems, even you (paraphrasing) was what set Trump off.
It all sure looked real to me and not planned. But who knows.
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Right. From the beginning they’ve needed help they are a much smaller country. We are either going to help secure Ukraine’s sovereignty or back out. We should be honest with ourselves about that rather than blaming Z and pretending to be strong to the country that literally has zero cards to play
I still believe this is all a negotiation and it could end really well for all parties outside of Russia. But if the biggest winner out of all this is Russia I do feel like we’ve failed
He actually came to Pennsylvania to campaign for Biden. He has information on the Bidens and used it to get billions. Not so easy now.
Funny thought. Bi-partisan politics is what Doge is uncovering.
And in front of the POTUS. I can’t remember in my lifetime when a VP went on the attack in front of the sitting president. The fact that it was Trump makes it even more interesting and impressive. Most VP’s would shy away from it as to not diminish the perception of the president.
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