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NonDawg Just saw Manning funding HBCUs

MonolithicDawgX

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Why do we still have these? Ok. A) The 'Industry' of "college" demand more and more universities and colleges, but virtually every college has exceeded quotas or demographics trying to reach and create a comfortable environment for AA students.

HOCUS were developed in a time of true deviciveness. But they have been critically underfunded, allowing the most marginal of marginal student (in some other post i will argue less than 40% of any population needs a college degree, but I digress) and these colleges and universities are not paying at a good enough rate to get top quality professors. Maybe a better way to discuss this is that the students in HBCUs are not getting g the same education as many div 1AA schools, and B) way too many colleges giving nothing degrees to people who couldn't graduate from a big state school. I know I'm starting a thread about something very complex, but HBCUs time is over, imo, and I'd rather see state schools denying g foreigners and out of state over typical HBCU students.

Bourbon post, I may never re-read this, but as of now, my straw man is built with pine needles.
 
I may regret this post but I work construction, which lead to knowing tech grads, who were complaining about having to take a calculus class taught by an Indian GA and they couldn't understand a word that he said
 
Why do we still have these? Ok. A) The 'Industry' of "college" demand more and more universities and colleges, but virtually every college has exceeded quotas or demographics trying to reach and create a comfortable environment for AA students.

HOCUS were developed in a time of true deviciveness. But they have been critically underfunded, allowing the most marginal of marginal student (in some other post i will argue less than 40% of any population needs a college degree, but I digress) and these colleges and universities are not paying at a good enough rate to get top quality professors. Maybe a better way to discuss this is that the students in HBCUs are not getting g the same education as many div 1AA schools, and B) way too many colleges giving nothing degrees to people who couldn't graduate from a big state school. I know I'm starting a thread about something very complex, but HBCUs time is over, imo, and I'd rather see state schools denying g foreigners and out of state over typical HBCU students.

Bourbon post, I may never re-read this, but as of now, my straw man is built with pine needles.
Mono, I see your bourbon post, and raise you a multiple beerz post. I don’t know what any of your initials means, so I shall venture some WAGS (wild ass guesses). HBCU is a home bound care unit, but you can’t have a HOCUS without a POCUS. And yes, we can probably all benefit from an AA meeting.
 
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Why do we still have these? Ok. A) The 'Industry' of "college" demand more and more universities and colleges, but virtually every college has exceeded quotas or demographics trying to reach and create a comfortable environment for AA students.

HOCUS were developed in a time of true deviciveness. But they have been critically underfunded, allowing the most marginal of marginal student (in some other post i will argue less than 40% of any population needs a college degree, but I digress) and these colleges and universities are not paying at a good enough rate to get top quality professors. Maybe a better way to discuss this is that the students in HBCUs are not getting g the same education as many div 1AA schools, and B) way too many colleges giving nothing degrees to people who couldn't graduate from a big state school. I know I'm starting a thread about something very complex, but HBCUs time is over, imo, and I'd rather see state schools denying g foreigners and out of state over typical HBCU students.

Bourbon post, I may never re-read this, but as of now, my straw man is built with pine needles.
So on one hand, many fine legacy families complain that their children don't get accepted to flagship schools because said schools pick "undeserving" students for quotas.

On the other hand, you want schools originally opened for the type of student in question due to necessity to suddenly go away? For what reason?

If HBCUs went away, wouldn't that lead to even fewer spots at flagship institutions? Plenty of highly qualified students attend HBCUs including those of races often not thought of as being students at those schools. Some are already state schools too. Or do you believe that those who HBCUs were created to serve are inherently inadequate to be real college material by default?

There are many technical colleges and small traditional colleges with "lesser" students getting education from "lesser" instructors all over the place. Should those institutions be on the chopping block as well? There's also many bright traditional and non-traditional students graduating from these "lesser" institutions of learning and turning into highly productive employees and/or educators.

I've seen enough resumes and employees in my career to know that where someone received their college education isn't the end all for determining who will be a valuable professional.

Aside from perceived and measured qualifications of students and instructors, mismanagement of higher education seems to be a universal problem and separate topic from why HBCUs exist.

So could you restate your problem statement concerning HBCUs so we can adequately address your concern? Perhaps without the liquor?
 
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So on one hand, many fine legacy families complain that their children don't get accepted to flagship schools because said schools pick "undeserving" students for quotas.

On the other hand, you want schools originally opened for the type of student in question due to necessity to suddenly go away? For what reason?

If HBCUs went away, wouldn't that lead to even fewer spots at flagship institutions? Plenty of highly qualified students attend HBCUs including those of races often not thought of as being students at those schools. Some are already state schools too. Or do you believe that those who HBCUs were created to serve are inherently inadequate to be real college material by default?

There are many technical colleges and small traditional colleges with "lesser" students getting education from "lesser" instructors all over the place. Should those institutions be on the chopping block as well? There's also many bright traditional and non-traditional students graduating from these "lesser" institutions of learning and turning into highly productive employees and/or educators.

I've seen enough resumes and employees in my career to know that where someone received their college education isn't the end all for determining who will be a valuable professional.

Aside from perceived and measured qualifications of students and instructors, mismanagement of higher education seems to be a universal problem and separate topic from why HBCUs exist.

So could you restate your problem statement concerning HBCUs so we can adequately address your concern? Perhaps without the liquor?

So I know you weren’t asking me but my reason these need to go away (in name, not necessarily the institution) is because as long as organizations exist that single out one race the divide will never close. HBCU’s, BET, NCAAP, etc all imply there is a difference based on race. Now we can argue if that is the case or not, but the whole premise of things like BLM and social justice is that there shouldn’t be any different treatment based on race. Or any differences period in the eyes on society. It’s been brought up ad nauseam but imagine if there were white or Asian or Hispanic only colleges, television stations and so on.
 
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So I know you weren’t asking me but my reason these need to go away (in name, not necessarily the institution) is because as long as organizations exist that single out one race the divide will never close. HBCU’s, BET, NCAAP, etc all imply there is a difference based on race. Now we can argue if that is the case or not, but the whole premise of things like BLM and social justice is that there shouldn’t be any different treatment based on race. Or any differences period in the eyes on society. It’s been brought up ad nauseam but imagine if there were white or Asian or Hispanic only colleges, television stations and so on.
I'll ask pointed questions so that irrelevant things don't enter the conversation (BET, NAACP, BLM).

Why do HBCUs exist?
What are HBCUs?
Why shouldn't HBCUs continue to operate?
What is the real problem?
 
I'll ask pointed questions so that irrelevant things don't enter the conversation (BET, NAACP, BLM).

Why do HBCUs exist?
What are HBCUs?
Why shouldn't HBCUs continue to operate?
What is the real problem?

I guess I can venture a guess why they were created but as for why they still exist I’m not sure. Especially when institutions nowadays are falling over themselves to take even semi qualified minorities, going so far as to have “quotas” for this very thing.

I never said they shouldn’t continue to operate, rather they should drop the segregation centered name.

The real problem (to me) lies in the fact that we have this so called social justice uprising being crammed down our throats. The problem as I see it is if we truly want equality it has to come from all angles. You cannot continue to operate entities where race is inclusive or exclusive.
OR we operate under the premise that we are different and we are allowed to operate under those conditions. The idea that exclusion can only come from one side will never achieve the stated goal.
 
Why do we still have these? Ok. A) The 'Industry' of "college" demand more and more universities and colleges, but virtually every college has exceeded quotas or demographics trying to reach and create a comfortable environment for AA students.

HOCUS were developed in a time of true deviciveness. But they have been critically underfunded, allowing the most marginal of marginal student (in some other post i will argue less than 40% of any population needs a college degree, but I digress) and these colleges and universities are not paying at a good enough rate to get top quality professors. Maybe a better way to discuss this is that the students in HBCUs are not getting g the same education as many div 1AA schools, and B) way too many colleges giving nothing degrees to people who couldn't graduate from a big state school. I know I'm starting a thread about something very complex, but HBCUs time is over, imo, and I'd rather see state schools denying g foreigners and out of state over typical HBCU students.

Bourbon post, I may never re-read this, but as of now, my straw man is built with pine needles.


I have to chime in on this. You stated that students at HBCUs are not getting the same education as Div 1AA schools. However, that's not true. HBCUs provide the same level of quality education as other institutions. For example, the United Negro College Fund reports that 20% of all African-American college graduates around the country received their degree from a historically black college or university—despite these schools only making up about 3% of the nation’s colleges. In addition, HBCUs produce 25% of all the African-American graduates with science, technology, engineering, and mathematics degrees.

You also asked why HBCUs are still around. One of the reasons that are is because they provide a culture of caring; A culture that prepares students to contribute to their communities, a culture that builds confidence and that gives them the essential skills they need to cultivate a career. That is a culture that is good for everyone and can help bridge the academic achievement gap that exists in America today.

My brother is a prime example of an HBCU student. he has a degree in Computer Science and has a job that pays him six figures. So sir I would recommend that you do some research on how important HBCUs still are.
 
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I guess I can venture a guess why they were created but as for why they still exist I’m not sure. Especially when institutions nowadays are falling over themselves to take even semi qualified minorities, going so far as to have “quotas” for this very thing.

I never said they shouldn’t continue to operate, rather they should drop the segregation centered name.

The real problem (to me) lies in the fact that we have this so called social justice uprising being crammed down our throats. The problem as I see it is if we truly want equality it has to come from all angles. You cannot continue to operate entities where race is inclusive or exclusive.
OR we operate under the premise that we are different and we are allowed to operate under those conditions. The idea that exclusion can only come from one side will never achieve the stated goal.

I've seen you post on many football issues and not stray away from numbers like you're doing now.

Throwing out quotas is a strawman argument. I don't work in an admissions office, but while minority numbers have risen at UGA, those numbers are not driven by blacks as even applications have been trending down over time relative to population.

Bottom line, flagship schools like UGA aren't being flooded by blacks and the overall minority enrollment increases are being largely driven by non-black and non-white families of working professionals who have moved to the state and graduated high achieving children. The number of Asian students has passed blacks and Hispanics are gaining.

So while there is a conversation to be had about racial enrollment, we can see that today's reality is less about blacks than it was in 1970.

So let's refocus on HBCUs. Since you're afraid to say it I will. They were created to address a market need resulting from segregation. HBCUs were an American solution (market based) to a societal problem.

So when segregation was finally outlawed, are you suggesting that these schools who successfully graduated multiple generations of students should have been wiped out?

Also, what is an HBCU? Part of the designation as defined by the federal government is "…any historically black college or university that was established prior to 1964, whose principal mission was, and is, the education of black Americans, and that is accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or association determined by the Secretary [of Education..."

Does that mean schools like UGA and Tech are implicitly HWCUs? Why haven't we done away with them then?

Because the flaw of HWCUs was discriminating by race. That was rightfully removed from the operation. Meanwhile, HBCUs have never systematically discriminated by race. They've always been open to students and employees of all races. Just because most whites don't even apply doesn't mean HBCUs are somehow inherently in the wrong. There's some HBCUs with significant white enrollment. Both Bluefield State and West Virginia State University have become majority white.

Hell, Morehouse was founded by a white Republican man.

HBCUs were a landing spot for Jewish refugees leaving Europe during the Nazi rise.

The idea that HBCUs are "all black" and don't admit whites is a myth.

The funniest article I've read was one covering Morehouse's 1st white valedictorian back in 2008 where they called it an all black school. I thought if they had a white student, how could it be all black?

If you don't like the idea of colleges being majority black then the solution is to perpetuate quotas at HWCUs which you already said you're against (I am too). But what's the problem with majority anything as long as everyone has equal opportunity to qualify without race being a factor?

We're at a point where the market can decide and there are real problems with higher education in general needing to be addressed that have nothing to do with race.
 
I've seen you post on many football issues and not stray away from numbers like you're doing now.

Throwing out quotas is a strawman argument. I don't work in an admissions office, but while minority numbers have risen at UGA, those numbers are not driven by blacks as even applications have been trending down over time relative to population.

Bottom line, flagship schools like UGA aren't being flooded by blacks and the overall minority enrollment increases are being largely driven by non-black and non-white families of working professionals who have moved to the state and graduated high achieving children. The number of Asian students has passed blacks and Hispanics are gaining.

So while there is a conversation to be had about racial enrollment, we can see that today's reality is less about blacks than it was in 1970.

So let's refocus on HBCUs. Since you're afraid to say it I will. They were created to address a market need resulting from segregation. HBCUs were an American solution (market based) to a societal problem.

So when segregation was finally outlawed, are you suggesting that these schools who successfully graduated multiple generations of students should have been wiped out?

Also, what is an HBCU? Part of the designation as defined by the federal government is "…any historically black college or university that was established prior to 1964, whose principal mission was, and is, the education of black Americans, and that is accredited by a nationally recognized accrediting agency or association determined by the Secretary [of Education..."

Does that mean schools like UGA and Tech are implicitly HWCUs? Why haven't we done away with them then?

Because the flaw of HWCUs was discriminating by race. That was rightfully removed from the operation. Meanwhile, HBCUs have never systematically discriminated by race. They've always been open to students and employees of all races. Just because most whites don't even apply doesn't mean HBCUs are somehow inherently in the wrong. There's some HBCUs with significant white enrollment. Both Bluefield State and West Virginia State University have become majority white.

Hell, Morehouse was founded by a white Republican man.

HBCUs were a landing spot for Jewish refugees leaving Europe during the Nazi rise.

The idea that HBCUs are "all black" and don't admit whites is a myth.

The funniest article I've read was one covering Morehouse's 1st white valedictorian back in 2008 where they called it an all black school. I thought if they had a white student, how could it be all black?

If you don't like the idea of colleges being majority black then the solution is to perpetuate quotas at HWCUs which you already said you're against (I am too). But what's the problem with majority anything as long as everyone has equal opportunity to qualify without race being a factor?

We're at a point where the market can decide and there are real problems with higher education in general needing to be addressed that have nothing to do with race.

I’m not well versed on HBCU as you admittedly. I would argue the vast majority of people aren’t as well. With that said, i would assume most have the perception that these schools are “black schools”. So to my very original point, I don’t have any problem with the existence of these institutions. My problem lies in the name and implied/not implied admission requirements. I mean it’s in the name...and i understand there is the word Historical before Black but let’s be honest it’s not the focus of the acronym. Once again, if we are gonna get to a point where race doesn’t have a bearing on society we can’t just cancel “white” things.
 
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