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Looking for proof that God actually exists.

It's always easier to point out someone else's flaws in their argument but a lot harder to prove your own when questioned the same. I'm still waiting on some doctorate in biology to answer my previously posted questions. They can't because no one can. Also, if you think bacon beer is proof of evolution you really don't understand Darwin or his approach. No use explaining at this point please go back to school.
It's not the goal of science to disprove religion despite what others say. But what you're ignoring is that science is peer reviewed, tested exhaustively, so by the time something is called a theory (like gravity) It's fairly concrete. Religion is given to you in a religious text, with the basic understanding that it encompasses the knowledge of its time, with no regard for the fact that discoveries are always made. Religious people by and large dismiss obvious discoveries (albeit some are too hard to ignore) and take it as an assault on their religion, as if it's the goal. All people of science want to do, is figure out how things work instead of suspending rationale thinking, which is what many religious people do when they 'throw it all up to God'. I even think God would be disgusted by that.

And just another example of why people should apply some understanding that their religious books were based on thinking of the time, is that there is the lack of proper prohibition of rape. We know full well that if the Bible were written today, some obvious attention would be given to the subject.

More and more, it just seems to me that religious people would be better served if they just used the stories in religious text as life lessons, instead of insisting that they are completely all encompassing, and that God doesn't want you to learn anything important about life away from those books.
 
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It's not the goal of science to disprove religion despite what others say. But what you're ignoring is that science is peer reviewed, tested exhaustively, so by the time something is called a theory (like gravity) It's fairly concrete. Religion is given to you in a religious text, with the basic understanding that it encompasses the knowledge of its time, with no regard for the fact that discoveries are always made. Religious people by and large dismiss obvious discoveries (that, albeit some are too hard to ignore) and take it as an assault on their religion, as if it's the goal. All people of science want to do, is figuure out how things work instead of suspending rationale thinking, which is what many religious people do when they 'throw it all up to God'. I even think God would be disgusted by that.

And just another example of why people should apply some understanding that their religious books were based on thinking of the time, is that there is the lack of proper prohibition of rape. We know full well that if the Bible were written today, some obvious attention would be given to th as to subject.

More and more, just seems to me that religious people would be better served if they just used the stories in religious text as life lessons, instead of insisting that they are completely all encompassing, and that God doesn't want you to learn anything important about life away from those books.
Lack of context is certainly a problem in many areas not just in reading older texts. I can't disagree with that point at all. Science does a great job at solving the how for many specific things (see Chemistry). It can never really approach the greater meaning of why we should or should not do something. The ethics or morality of choices science makes is the challenge. Just because you can harvest a baby that has been aborted does not mean that you should. Just because I define that as evil does not necessarily make it so for someone else. Science does a very poor job in the ethical realm and by tearing down the foundation of civilizations rooted in some form of theology we are left with IMO an emptiness void of meaning or purpose. The goal of many atheists to replace church with government is IMO failing our country and it's people. But I diverge and that is why when I take your original anecdotal example of rape I know how these anecdotes provide you with the bricks you need to build your already existing confirmation bias. I don't have time to do all of that on a blog nor would I want to.
 
Lack of context is certainly a problem in many areas not just in reading older texts. I can't disagree with that point at all. Science does a great job at solving the how for many specific things (see Chemistry). It can never really approach the greater meaning of why we should or should not do something. The ethics or morality of choices science makes is the challenge. Just because you can harvest a baby that has been aborted does not mean that you should. Just because I define that as evil does not necessarily make it so for someone else. Science does a very poor job in the ethical realm and by tearing down the foundation of civilizations rooted in some form of theology we are left with IMO an emptiness void of meaning or purpose. The goal of many atheists to replace church with government is IMO failing our country and it's people. But I diverge and that is why when I take your original anecdotal example of rape I know how these anecdotes provide you with the bricks you need to build your already existing confirmation bias. I don't have time to do all of that on a blog nor would I want to.
You're hitting on something pretty interesting now. But first, I wouldn't rule out science being able to answer the questions we have about mortality, as it does a pretty good job of explaining certain aspects of why we think a certain way, and our behavior (including altruism, which possibly is related in the shaping of ethics in our minds). But anyway many believe the ultimate sticking point in proving the existence of God, is morality... that we would commence in the raping and killing of everyone, without an arbiter in the afterlife. And to this, I'll quote another atheist, Penn Jillette, "I've raped and murdered everyone I've wanted to... and that number is exactly zero". I think I'm a pretty moral guy. In fact, I pretty much live by the principles Jesus taught, and I don't do it for fear of what may happen to me after I die.
 
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Find evidence of someone, somewhere, sometime, having an amputated limb regenerate itself. People who believe are constantly telling you God heals, he has the power to cure this and that, but for some reason amputated limbs never seem to grow back. Why? Did the amputees not pray hard enough? Were they not worthy? That seems unlikely. I mean surely one amputee down through the ages was Godly enough to have his arm grow back. Or is it that God is incapable? That would destroy the premise of an all-powerful creator. That leaves us with 3 choices. He's either unwilling, unable, or imaginary. Take your pick. I know which one I'm going with.
 
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You're hitting on something pretty interesting now. But first, I wouldn't rule out science being able to answer the questions we have about mortality, as it does a pretty good job of explaining certain aspects of why we think a certain way, and our behavior (including altruism, which possibly is related in the shaping of ethics in our minds). But anyway many believe the ultimate sticking point in proving the existence of God, is morality... that we would commence in the raping and killing of everyone, without an arbiter in the afterlife. And to this, I'll quote another atheist, Penn Jillette, "I've raped and murdered everyone I've wanted to... and that number is exactly zero". I think I'm a pretty moral guy. In fact, I pretty much live by the principles Jesus taught, and I don't do it for fear of what may happen to me after I die.
Well, then you are a better man than me. So is Penn Jillette if what he says is true. Truth being another relative subject right? Anyways, my late grandfather was a Mason and I inherited his quest for enlightenment. I believe in The Story of Jesus. I believe in a higher power - God. Each person has to search themselves if they so desire. All the How questions I think will be revealed and they will make perfect sense once revealed. To discount them IMO is tantamount to locking Marconi up for believing that signals through the air can pass information which we all now know is common place. We are just scratching the surface of a great revolution where science and theology will meet on a common ground as we begin to understand how quantum physics of other dimensions makes the impossible possible.
 
Well, then you are a better man than me. So is Penn Jillette if what he says is true. Truth being another relative subject right? Anyways, my late grandfather was a Mason and I inherited his quest for enlightenment. I believe in The Story of Jesus. I believe in a higher power - God. Each person has to search themselves if they so desire. All the How questions I think will be revealed and they will make perfect sense once revealed. To discount them IMO is tantamount to locking Marconi up for believing that signals through the air can pass information which we all now know is common place. We are just scratching the surface of a great revolution where science and theology will meet on a common ground as we begin to understand how quantum physics of other dimensions makes the impossible possible.
Well, just know that arrogantly discounting stuff, is a two way street. Big difference between having a belief or lack of one, and disqualifying something with arrogance. Which I don't do, and I'm embarrassed when another Atheist does it, the same way a believer should feel when one of the flock does the same thing.
 
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It's always easier to point out someone else's flaws in their argument but a lot harder to prove your own when questioned the same. I'm still waiting on some doctorate in biology to answer my previously posted questions. They can't because no one can. Also, if you think bacon beer is proof of evolution you really don't understand Darwin or his approach. No use explaining at this point please go back to school.

Bacon beer clearly proves evolution, it's heretical to suggest otherwise.
 
Find evidence of someone, somewhere, sometime, having an amputated limb regenerate itself. People who believe are constantly telling you God heals, he has the power to cure this and that, but for some reason amputated limbs never seem to grow back. Why? Did the amputees not pray hard enough? Were they not worthy? That seems unlikely. I mean surely one amputee down through the ages was Godly enough to have his arm grow back. Or is it that God is incapable? That would destroy the premise of an all-powerful creator. That leaves us with 3 choices. He's either unwilling, unable, or imaginary. Take your pick. I know which one I'm going with.
If this is your litmus test then so be it. I don't quite understand the logic as the ultimate question on why you believe something. To me this is just an anecdotal cop out. Just my opinion nothing more. No I am not going to try to convince you of anything so just be whoever you want to be. You have made up your mind and that is yours and yours alone.
 
Well, just know that arrogantly discounting stuff, is a two way street. Big difference between having a belief or lack of one, and disqualifying something with arrogance. Which I don't do, and I'm embarrassed when another Atheist does it, the same way a believer should feel when one of the flock does the same thing.
I don't think you ever can prove anything of true value to someone who already has a narrative built. The rules of the narrative and the life lessons that have come to define it are very important when searching for greater meaning. That's why when I talk to someone who has very strong opinions and anecdotal examples of why they think something then I tread lightly because I know it is fruitless attempt. To just discuss something - fine. To expect one to answer you questions without answering theirs - futile one way conversation. Just my opinion but no one can answer my questions from above (when I say no one I mean literally no one even doctorates). So that was brushed over very elegantly I might add.
 
If someone can describe for me the second before the Big Bang, I'll listen to their argument that God does not exist. Until they ca, there has to have been some supreme force shaping what happened.

Then where did God come from? When was he created and by whom? Can you describe when he was created and the second before?
 
If this is your litmus test then so be it. I don't quite understand the logic as the ultimate question on why you believe something. To me this is just an anecdotal cop out. Just my opinion nothing more. No I am not going to try to convince you of anything so just be whoever you want to be. You have made up your mind and that is yours and yours alone.
Because my litmus test for belief is evidence.
 
really one post since 2001 and you are just now taking a philosophy course....besides this is from the movie Gods not dead...try less harder on your next troll.....

Based on the responses I think I've trolled pretty well. ;)
 
You can't prove the existence of God because it's not provable. Why keep hammering away when you could just leave it at the obvious, it's a FAITH, not a science.
That's your narrative and I'm not going to try to convince you. You can't prove the big bang either so touche.
 
There is a book "The Case For Christ" that began with one mans desire to prove that God did not exist. Half way thru he began to change and by the end we get this book. Read and you will not have something in your hand that proves he exists, but it reinforced my beliefs. I personally cant go through a day and look at creation and think this comes from a Big Bang. I do believe in real evolution and you can go to the Galopagos islands to see a great study on that. But that is after creation. We can make new plants and all kinds of dogs through engineering but that is after creation. I think the true fairytale is all this was created by happenstance and not by a supreme creator. My .02

Where did the Supreme Creator come from? If he is so amazing that he could come up with things so complex as DNA, intelligence, and beauty then certainly the creator of the creator must be really special.

Does your book explain where the creator of the creator came from?
 
I see no evidence for any supreme being merely by glancing around. Perhaps you could tell me what I am supposed to be looking at?

He's the type who would be radical about his beliefs if society allowed for it. His approach to religion can be dangerous.
Religion is A FAITH, not a science. There are all manner of religious text in this world, each just as sure as the other their way is God's path.
 
We will find out one day. Hopefully, we will
It's not the goal of science to disprove religion despite what others say. But what you're ignoring is that science is peer reviewed, tested exhaustively, so by the time something is called a theory (like gravity) It's fairly concrete. Religion is given to you in a religious text, with the basic understanding that it encompasses the knowledge of its time, with no regard for the fact that discoveries are always made. Religious people by and large dismiss obvious discoveries (albeit some are too hard to ignore) and take it as an assault on their religion, as if it's the goal. All people of science want to do, is figuure out how things work instead of suspending rationale thinking, which is what many religious people do when they 'throw it all up to God'. I even think God would be disgusted by that.

And just another example of why people should apply some understanding that their religious books were based on thinking of the time, is that there is the lack of proper prohibition of rape. We know full well that if the Bible were written today, some obvious attention would be given to th as to subject.

More and more, just seems to me that religious people would be better served if they just used the stories in religious text as life lessons, instead of insisting that they are completely all encompassing, and that God doesn't want you to learn anything important about life away from those books.

That will preach brother!
 
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I know where I am going and am comfortable with that. I have hope and belief and that is enough for me.
 
So back to the original statement..
looking for proof that god exists...trying to find a good argument for a philosophy class...
Well... have you found proof and anything to to argue?
 
The only proof I have Is that my life has drastically changed. I abused drugs and alcohol for years and tried with all my will and power to stop for 25 years. I could not. It started at Georgia. I was homeless and unemployable...hopeless. It should have killed me.

I finally prayed to a God that I really didn't believe could help me. I told him that I would go and do whatever he willed if he would help me. He did.

Something happened to me that I can't explain. I've been sober for 5 years. I have a small little business that pays all my bills and I live with a view of the marina on SSI. All my friends know this is a miracle. There is not enough space here to explain all the amazing things that have happened to me by surrendering to the best of my ability everyday.

That's my only proof, but it is something that can be seen.
 
It's not the goal of science to disprove religion despite what others say. But what you're ignoring is that science is peer reviewed, tested exhaustively, so by the time something is called a theory (like gravity) It's fairly concrete. Religion is given to you in a religious text, with the basic understanding that it encompasses the knowledge of its time, with no regard for the fact that discoveries are always made. Religious people by and large dismiss obvious discoveries (albeit some are too hard to ignore) and take it as an assault on their religion, as if it's the goal. All people of science want to do, is figure out how things work instead of suspending rationale thinking, which is what many religious people do when they 'throw it all up to God'. I even think God would be disgusted by that.

And just another example of why people should apply some understanding that their religious books were based on thinking of the time, is that there is the lack of proper prohibition of rape. We know full well that if the Bible were written today, some obvious attention would be given to the subject.

More and more, it just seems to me that religious people would be better served if they just used the stories in religious text as life lessons, instead of insisting that they are completely all encompassing, and that God doesn't want you to learn anything important about life away from those books.


THIS. Best and most well stated summary of beliefs similar to mine I've heard in a while. Bravo.
 
Then provide the proof that matter just "happened" and all of this was created out of nothing.

I will hang up and wait on your answer. Please provide proof or your response will not be validated in this discussion.

There is "proof" that something can come from nothing in Quantum Physics.

Unfortunately, this topic is beyond the ability of humans to comprehend (we ain't that smart yet). I agree with the others that day there is no hard proof of the existence of God but there also is no proof against it either. I believe there is a Creator who could have set up the Big Bang for the same reason I take vitamins, because believing/taking can't hurt but the opposite might.

Just follow the Golden Rule and everything will be alright..
 
I'm trying to find a good argument for a philosophy class that I'm taking.
Nothing exists that doesn't have a beginning. Nothing begins without a cause. The universe exists, therefore it has a beginning, therefore it has a cause. Something outside of time and space had to cause time and space to begin. Sounds like God to me.
 
I'm trying to find a good argument for a philosophy class that I'm taking.
Read the Bible cover to cover and try find the archaeological evidence that conflicts with it. Impossible.

The truth is, i don't think anyone can type an answer that will be acceptable for you. It will take a conversation for me to tell you my story of how I know with every fiber of my being that God in heaven is real and Jesus Christ is who he said he is. Even though I have never physically seen God with my eyes, when I look back on my life, I have experienced God many times, his very Spirit lives within me, and I am living proof that there is a loving God that saves.

God wants a relationship with you. That relationship requires you to acknowledge him as your Lord and Savior based on faith. If there was picture taken or some other "proof" as you call it, that wouldn't happen. I have a relationship with God. Impossible to have a relationship with someone who isn't there or doesn't reciprocate.
 
I am agnostic. I believe in something greater than myself. Call it forces of nature, the depth of space or whatever name you give your god. Man has tried to provide various details to a vast concept that is as deep as space itself.

First, if "god" can be defined as something greater than "man" then the examples of space and forces of nature are greater and therefore would be proof of "god".
 
''For The Bible Tells Me So'' isn't ''proof'', We're still getting back to ''FAITH'', regardless of how it's packaged.

Seriously brother take that leap and see what happens. It can't hurt you and could only change your life for the better.
I hope you really give it some thought. I am not being sarcastic, I really mean what I posted.
Have a great day, and God bless.
 
Psalms 19

''For The Bible Tells Me So'' isn't ''proof'', We're still getting back to ''FAITH'', regardless of how it's packaged.
Seriously brother take that leap and see what happens. It can't hurt you and could only change your life for the better.
I hope you really give it some thought. I am not being sarcastic, I really mean what I posted.
Have a great day, and God bless.

If I ever get 'faith'', it will still be just that. This thread about proof, not faith.
 
''For The Bible Tells Me So'' isn't ''proof'', We're still getting back to ''FAITH'', regardless of how it's packaged.


If I ever get 'faith'', it will still be just that. This thread about proof, not faith.

The only proof I need is in the mirror. Knowing that no other being on this planet is 15+% more intelligent than me. Is that the best custodian of it all infinite time and space can produce? To believe or imagine an all powerful or at least supreme architect of everything we all can see and know around us, and to know how much greater what we don't know is than what we do, makes me choose design. I choose intelligent design, intelligence beyond our imagination over a random explosion of a marble sized piece of clay or the tiniest, most dense rock, whose origin we are incapable of imagining. At some reverse point, in either case, you must have faith.
 
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The only proof I need is in the mirror. Knowing that no other being on this planet is 15+% more intelligent than me. To believe or imagine an all powerful or at least supreme architect of everything we all can see and know around us, and to know how much greater what we don't know is than what we do, makes me choose design. I choose intelligent design over a random explosion of a marble sized piece of clay or the tiniest, most dense rock, whose origin we are incapable of imagining. At some reverse point, in either case, you must have faith.

Your ''faith'' seems strong, I'm happy for You.
I was comforted My Mom had strong faith when She faced the end of this life.
 
Your ''faith'' seems strong, I'm happy for You.
I was comforted My Mom had strong faith when She faced the end of this life.
I know she is praying for you as am I. I am not pretending to be some know it all better than thou guy.
I just care about others and help when I can. Have a good day.
 
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