More on why unvaccinated are not causing case increases with Delta strain (hint - Wyoming matters because they said it did)...

BigDaddyDawgBreath

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For my interlocutors @CalienteDawg and @Boom MFer Dawg, who dismissed what I said because I "picked the smallest state" (Wyoming) which had shown no case increases in spite of having both the highest Delta prevalence and the lowest vaccination rate. You also dismissed me citing no case increases in South Dakota as meaningless because those are rural areas.

It was the public health establishment and media which singled out Wyoming and rural areas, not me. Specifically, it was CNN and Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner (and now on the board of Pfizer, major proponent of vaccinations, and probably a "top 3" talking head on COVID). They called out Wyoming by name.

In addition, Gottlieb went on to predict that the worst problems with Delta strain would be "pockets... with low vaccination rates and low rates of prior infection, Gottlieb said, like in many rural and southern communities." (emphasis added)



Now that cases are up but in Sunbelt areas and not other low-vaccination areas as he predicted, the narrative-sellers want to jump on just the South but ignore the upper Midwest to say "cases are only up because of unvaccinated and the South proves it!"

You also ignored what I have posted for a few weeks, which is that the entire upper and Front Range west was approaching 70% Delta prevalence one month ago. All of CDC Regions 7 and 8, encompassing 10 states (WY, MT, CO, MO, IA, UT, SD, ND, NE, and KS). Here is a shot of the official CDC variant tracker for the week ending 6/19/21. The pie charts for each region show Delta prevalence as the dark orange slice:



So even though it was CNN/Dr. Gottlieb who raised the issue of Wyoming/rural areas with low vaccination rates, feel free to look at Colorado's COVID-19 case data right now. Includes Denver, a major metropolitan area (It shows almost zero increase with a very high Delta prevalence).



Perhaps this is all so cognitively dissonant you cannot help but simply reject what I am saying, but this is data and not opinion. Remember this comes from the same public health establishment that called states "Neanderthals" for dropping masks in the spring (which was a wildly wrong comment). They are regularly detached from the data.

As my last point, I have previously mentioned that the UK had major Delta case spread in spite of having very high vaccination rates. It is not just the UK. Spain also has high vaccination rates but that country too just went through a major spike in cases almost the equal of their winter spike.



At what point do you begin to allow yourself to question the official government messages and think independently? Ultimately I wouldn't care if they would mind their own business but they keep insisting on messing with my life and the the lives of our children with a consistently flawed approach.

NOTE: One thing the data does say is vaccination reduces your chances of hospitalization or death from COVID-19. Obviously that risk is still clustered in elderly and those with multiple conditions. So following the data says "vaccines are not proving to stop transmission but they are working to reduce hospitalizations/deaths". Public health needs to tell this truth instead of bulls----ting us all the time and more people would probably get vaccinated.
 
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Dawg 'n IT

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For my interlocutors @CalienteDawg and @Boom MFer Dawg, who dismissed what I said because I "picked the smallest state" (Wyoming) which had shown no case increases in spite of having both the highest Delta prevalence and the lowest vaccination rate. You also dismissed me citing no case increases in South Dakota as meaningless because those are rural areas.

It was the public health establishment and media which singled out Wyoming and rural areas, not me. Specifically, it was CNN and Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner (and now on the board of Pfizer, major proponent of vaccinations, and probably a "top 3" talking head on COVID). They called out Wyoming by name.

In addition, Gottlieb went on to predict that the worst problems with Delta strain would be "pockets... with low vaccination rates and low rates of prior infection, Gottlieb said, like in many rural and southern communities." (emphasis added)



Now that cases are up but in Sunbelt areas and not other low-vaccination areas as he predicted, the narrative-sellers want to jump on just the South but ignore the upper Midwest to say "cases are only up because of unvaccinated and the South proves it!"

You also ignored what I have posted for a few weeks, which is that the entire upper and Front Range west was approaching 70% Delta prevalence one month ago. All of CDC Regions 7 and 8, encompassing 10 states (WY, MT, CO, MO, IA, UT, SD, ND, NE, and KS). Here is a shot of the official CDC variant tracker for the week ending 6/19/21. The pie charts for each region show Delta prevalence as the dark orange slice:




So even though it was CNN/Dr. Gottlieb who raised the issue of Wyoming/rural areas with low vaccination rates, feel free to look at Colorado's COVID-19 case data right now. Includes Denver, a major metropolitan area (It shows almost zero increase with a very high Delta prevalence).




Perhaps this is all so cognitively dissonant you cannot help but simply reject what I am saying, but this is data and not opinion. Remember this comes from the same public health establishment that called states "Neanderthals" for dropping masks in the spring (which was a wildly wrong comment). They are regularly detached from the data.

As my last point, I have previously mentioned that the UK had major Delta case spread in spite of having very high vaccination rates. It is not just the UK. Spain also has high vaccination rates but that country too just went through a major spike in cases almost the equal of their winter spike.




At what point do you begin to allow yourself to question the official government messages and think independently? Ultimately I wouldn't care if they would mind their own business but they keep insisting on messing with my life and the the lives of our children with a consistently flawed approach.

NOTE: One thing the data does say is vaccination reduces your chances of hospitalization or death from COVID-19. Obviously that risk is still clustered in elderly and those with multiple conditions. So following the data says "vaccines are not proving to stop transmission but they are working to reduce hospitalizations/deaths". Public health needs to tell this truth instead of bulls----ting us all the time and more people would probably get vaccinated.
Sir, I'd like to remind you that we've already been told that data doesn't matter.
 

CalienteDawg

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A couple things…I have absolutely ignored your weeks of previous posts because I rarely get on here and didn’t know they existed. I haven’t seen them and doubt I’ll look for them.

I’m honestly just here because I stumbled upon your very flawed post last week comparing total cases in UK with Wyoming and SD. You know the one you didn’t disclose that one place with 68M was testing 1.5% of their population daily (kinda stupid IMO) and the one with 600k was testing .2% of theirs daily. Then you jumped to total cases in UK from 2020 to 2021 without looking at test rates between those times. It was terrible analysis and I had to jump in from a data standpoint. I personally don’t care about the message either way but I’ll call out people trying to be intellectually dishonest or lazy.

However, now I think I know your pain points are mostly against the media/government officials etc. That I can’t really quantify and I do share your opinion that this topic has been hijacked by people pushing narratives. However you are guilty of it as well and I’m sure I have been as well.

Back on point, I just don’t understand your methodology. You jump in and out of total numbers between populations that don’t relate. You Compared the south to the Midwest when the year over year data is available to make a stronger arguement. Hell, Even our beloved Wyoming has seen a doubling in cases from July 19-25 2020 (in the 40s) to July 19-25 2021 (in the 80s).

Just because the overall numbers are low that doesn’t mean you should completely dismiss the percentage increase. It may indicate the prevalence of the delta strain or it may not but you chose to ignore it because it didn’t match the conclusion you already decided on.

However, when we bounce that same limited (and possibly flawed) criteria off of Georgia, we are still seeing a spike from June to July just like we did in 2020 (which you called out) but with about half the cases as we did last year.

Are we testing fewer?
Is it the vaccine?
Did we kill off the weak?
Or does the Delta strain like us because it’s corporate offices are in Atlanta?

As said in previous posts. I believe with confidence you arrive at a conclusion, you find a lot of supporting data, you ignore any contradicting data and you become even more confident in your conclusion. Your conclusion is possibly right, could be wrong or mostly it’s just inconclusive. That’s all you need to get likes from your choir but it’s not a good methodology.

As much as we should be questioning our media and government, we should question people like you and I.
 

Dirty Hairy Dawg

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If your goal is to save lives and get those with higher chances of catastrophic outcomes to vaccinate you should:

1. Make sure all official information is as accurate as possible.

2. Be transparent. The population at large will forgive authority figures if they are wrong but show their work. They won't be so forgiving if you suddenly state things like the science on masks changed when the efficacy of masks is virtually identical to what the science has always said.

3. Defeat misinformation with facts and data. If someone states the vac is causing more deaths than previously accepted for vaccines or is causing pregnant women to experience miscarriages at a higher than normal rate, either show data that contradicts or admit there are small risks of adverse reactions.

You shouldn't:

Develop a vaccine that helps manage symptoms and then run ads to encourage people to vaccinate claiming it will stop the spread.

Look for mild or asymptomatic cases to create fear to motivate people to vaccinate when it contradicts your stop the spread media campaign when a large number of those cases are vaccinated.

Try to encourage those at low to no risk to vaccinate when their exposure to the virus usually leads to no or minor symptoms.

Censor dissent. If the vaccine is life saving, it should be easy enough to show the public the truth without insulting half the populations intelligence by insisting they aren't smart enough to distinguish fact or fiction. If the facts are demonstrably on your side, defeating a snake oil salesman's pitch should be easy enough.
 

OlecountryDawg

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Here what some don’t get and understand, people are going to do what they going to do . People who have had their vaccine shouldn’t worry . You can only control your self . You can talk to your family BUT at the end of the day they will do what they will do .

I had my vaccine and I am not going to worry about it . If I still get it , and die I will be going to heaven . I will see family in heaven and I hope to see friends .
 

BigDaddyDawgBreath

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Here what some don’t get and understand, people are going to do what they going to do . People who have had their vaccine shouldn’t worry . You can only control your self . You can talk to your family BUT at the end of the day they will do what they will do .

I had my vaccine and I am not going to worry about it . If I still get it , and die I will be going to heaven . I will see family in heaven and I hope to see friends .
Problem brother is that Delta / summer Sunbelt Surge 2 shows the busybodies are waiting to pounce. They will seize on anything about this to overreach and screw with us.

Only way to end it is to so thoroughly discredit the wrong things they are doing that it is never considered again. That's going to be hard with them controlling the government, media and most Big Tech but this is the situation as we find it.
 

I was there dawg

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Ok at this point, anyone who wants to be vaccinated probably has been. Anyone who hasn't should be willing to accept the consequences of their decision. The hospitals are NOT being overrun which was whole announced purpose of lock down to begin with. I personally think you are safer if vaccinated but if not so be it. Just get the dang government out of equation.
 

Eastmandawg

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Here what some don’t get and understand, people are going to do what they going to do . People who have had their vaccine shouldn’t worry . You can only control your self . You can talk to your family BUT at the end of the day they will do what they will do .

I had my vaccine and I am not going to worry about it . If I still get it , and die I will be going to heaven . I will see family in heaven and I hope to see friends .

Kinda like the game of golf, or any sport for that matter. just do your thang and let the chips fall. Can't worry about anything that you have no control over.

At this point, people have made their minds up.....not going to try to convince anyone, nor do I care.

39 days....that is mostly what I GAS about...
 
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HacksawDawg

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Submitted without comment...

Screenshot-20210727-101949.png
 
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WyoDawg307

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Problem brother is that Delta / summer Sunbelt Surge 2 shows the busybodies are waiting to pounce. They will seize on anything about this to overreach and screw with us.

Only way to end it is to so thoroughly discredit the wrong things they are doing that it is never considered again. That's going to be hard with them controlling the government, media and most Big Tech but this is the situation as we find it.
Other way to end it, as you said yesterday, is to stop testing.
But too much money to be made from endless testing so...
 

wwforest

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Other way to end it, as you said yesterday, is to stop testing.
But too much money to be made from endless testing so...
 

WyoDawg307

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Clearly Innova is not properly connected with the guvmint.

I remember back when the CDC developed these last March and their quality controls were so poor that the first few thousand they made were all tainted with the virus. Good times...
 
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BigDaddyDawgBreath

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Other way to end it, as you said yesterday, is to stop testing.
But too much money to be made from endless testing so...
It is time for grown ups to seize the initiative when this surge ends (I think in a month or less) and go on the offensive against all the things that are chaining us to this situation but do nothing to actually save lives.

The solution is right there in front of us but somebody is going to have to make it happen. It will not occur on its own.
 

WBDawg13

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It all really sux and I definitely don’t want COVID again but why is it that we test for this and shut people down when they might have been close to someone with it but we aren’t testing for every other illness out there? People get sick!
 
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BigDaddyDawgBreath

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It all really sux and I definitely don’t want COVID again but why is it that we test for this and shut people down when they might have been close to someone with it but we aren’t testing for every other illness out there? People get sick!
And quarantining people who were only in contact (especially asymptomatic positives) has very little justification in data. Few are studying it but for those who have it is showing very, very few people who were quarantined showing up with a positive test afterwards.

It is maniacal activity built on a false premise, which is that we can make COVID-19 go away if we try hard enough.
 

elderdawg

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And quarantining people who were only in contact (especially asymptomatic positives) has very little justification in data. Few are studying it but for those who have it is showing very, very few people who were quarantined showing up with a positive test afterwards.

It is maniacal activity built on a false premise, which is that we can make COVID-19 go away if we try hard enough.
If this contact quarantining BS starts up in College Football this Fall, I really might become a "domestic terrorist"

Note to NSA, I AM JUST KIDDING!
 
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DustyRings

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A couple things…I have absolutely ignored your weeks of previous posts because I rarely get on here and didn’t know they existed. I haven’t seen them and doubt I’ll look for them.

I’m honestly just here because I stumbled upon your very flawed post last week comparing total cases in UK with Wyoming and SD. You know the one you didn’t disclose that one place with 68M was testing 1.5% of their population daily (kinda stupid IMO) and the one with 600k was testing .2% of theirs daily. Then you jumped to total cases in UK from 2020 to 2021 without looking at test rates between those times. It was terrible analysis and I had to jump in from a data standpoint. I personally don’t care about the message either way but I’ll call out people trying to be intellectually dishonest or lazy.

However, now I think I know your pain points are mostly against the media/government officials etc. That I can’t really quantify and I do share your opinion that this topic has been hijacked by people pushing narratives. However you are guilty of it as well and I’m sure I have been as well.

Back on point, I just don’t understand your methodology. You jump in and out of total numbers between populations that don’t relate. You Compared the south to the Midwest when the year over year data is available to make a stronger arguement. Hell, Even our beloved Wyoming has seen a doubling in cases from July 19-25 2020 (in the 40s) to July 19-25 2021 (in the 80s).

Just because the overall numbers are low that doesn’t mean you should completely dismiss the percentage increase. It may indicate the prevalence of the delta strain or it may not but you chose to ignore it because it didn’t match the conclusion you already decided on.

However, when we bounce that same limited (and possibly flawed) criteria off of Georgia, we are still seeing a spike from June to July just like we did in 2020 (which you called out) but with about half the cases as we did last year.

Are we testing fewer?
Is it the vaccine?
Did we kill off the weak?
Or does the Delta strain like us because it’s corporate offices are in Atlanta?

As said in previous posts. I believe with confidence you arrive at a conclusion, you find a lot of supporting data, you ignore any contradicting data and you become even more confident in your conclusion. Your conclusion is possibly right, could be wrong or mostly it’s just inconclusive. That’s all you need to get likes from your choir but it’s not a good methodology.

As much as we should be questioning our media and government, we should question people like you and I.
Yup.
Confirmation bias is a thing.
 

BigDaddyDawgBreath

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Yup.
Confirmation bias is a thing.
Yall throw that around but do not defend the accusation.

Please show me where I have confirmation bias. From what I see that is exactly what the other side is doing here.

Because I assume you saw where I showed you *they* predicted Wyoming would have a big spike in cases because of Delta and low vaccination percentages but did not.

Has that stopped them claiming cases are going up because of unvaccinated?

How is that confirmation bias in *my* argument?
 

DustyRings

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Yall throw that around but do not defend the accusation.

Please show me where I have confirmation bias. From what I see that is exactly what the other side is doing here.

Because I assume you saw where I showed you *they* predicted Wyoming would have a big spike in cases because of Delta and low vaccination percentages but did not.

Has that stopped them claiming cases are going up because of unvaccinated?

How is that confirmation bias in *my* argument?
Both sides are doing it Big Daddy, the lack of peer reviewed data on C19 issues isn't helping anyone....there is a significant level of mypoia that exists on pretty much everyone's viewpoints on all the issues presently. Thinking the other side has bias is in fact, bias.
 

BigDaddyDawgBreath

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Both sides are doing it Big Daddy, the lack of peer reviewed data on C19 issues isn't helping anyone....there is a significant level of mypoia that exists on pretty much everyone's viewpoints on all the issues presently. Thinking the other side has bias is in fact, bias.
But where did I do it in this thread?

Returning to Wyoming, after the public health establishment said Wyoming would have one of the worst outcomes with Delta because of low vaccination rates, cases there still have barely moved. After Delta has been circulating there at a high prevalence for over a month.

See proof in the link below.

Until we show real intellectual curiosity about what is actually happening we are going to keep lurching from one pile of BS to another.

Mash here. CDC needs to explain this:

 
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