National health care ?

[jenkinscreekdawg]

Check out what is going on in England...their system is broke ! Up to 12 hour waits at emergency rooms , canceled surgeries and long waits to see a doctor . Some of the reasons given, are their liberal immigration policies and folks are living longer . The person interviewed from London said " America if you are considering this type system , if you do it, you can never undo it " .

 

[CleanDawg]

Check out what is going on in England...their system is broke ! Up to 12 hour waits at emergency rooms , canceled surgeries and long waits to see a doctor . Some of the reasons given, are their liberal immigration policies and folks are living longer . The person interviewed from London said " America if you are considering this type system , if you do it you can never undo it " .

And that’s with a population of only about 60mil. Could you imagine the nightmare of a government ran healthcare system for a population of 330+mil?

 

[kckd]

Check out what is going on in England...their system is broke ! Up to 12 hour waits at emergency rooms , canceled surgeries and long waits to see a doctor . Some of the reasons given, are their liberal immigration policies and folks are living longer . The person interviewed from London said " America if you are considering this type system , if you do it, you can never undo it " .

I've been in England and it's not that bad in England. I've lived in S. Korea with govt run healthcare of about 50 million and it's really quite smooth and inexpensive. I had hernia surgery in the States in 1997. It was supposed to be outpatient, but I got nauseated in recovery and the doctor had me stay one night. Bill: 5000 dollars and I had to pay my deductible first then 20% of the rest. Cost me almost 2 grand.

Same surgery in Korea 10 years later. Stayed in the hospital 3 days. Bill: Less than 300 bucks. But hey, whatever floats your boat. If you like the high prices, cool beans.

 

[stray]

Check out what is going on in England...their system is broke ! Up to 12 hour waits at emergency rooms , canceled surgeries and long waits to see a doctor . Some of the reasons given, are their liberal immigration policies and folks are living longer . The person interviewed from London said " America if you are considering this type system , if you do it, you can never undo it " .

I had a chance to talk with a Canadian couple in a local hospital while may father was in ICU. This was just as we were passing Obamacare. He said we were crazy to do it. The only reason his wife survived was they were in America when she got sick. We spent quite a long time talking and he lamented the nightmare that their healthcare system was.
I have another friend who is Canadian and he echoed their feelings. I watched him struggle for almost a year with a torn rotator cuff. He had to wait for his chance to just get an MRI. Something he could get the same day here in America. Of course, then he had to wait again to get surgery done on it.
Products and services will ALWAYS be rationed, it's just a matter of who you believe should do the rationing. Do you want it to be the government or the free market?

 

[kckd]

I had a chance to talk with a Canadian couple in a local hospital while may father was in ICU. This was just as we were passing Obamacare. He said we were crazy to do it. The only reason his wife survived was they were in America when she got sick. We spent quite a long time talking and he lamented the nightmare that their healthcare system was.
I have another friend who is Canadian and he echoed their feelings. I watched him struggle for almost a year with a torn rotator cuff. He had to wait for his chance to just get an MRI. Something he could get the same day here in America. Of course, then he had to wait again to get surgery done on it.
Products and services will ALWAYS be rationed, it's just a matter of who you believe should do the rationing. Do you want it to be the government or the free market?

Again, I can only tell you from my experience. I have met numerous Canadians, worked with many of them as an expat. The ones I know over here think our way is far inferior.

 

[benchwarmerdawg]

Again, I can only tell you from my experience. I have met numerous Canadians, worked with many of them as an expat. The ones I know over here think our way is far inferior.

Well sir take the tax money you save by not having to pay for nationalized health care and put it into a savings account. If you need the surgery you will have money to pay for it. If you don't, you will have money to do something else. Glad you had a good experience but too many examples of terrible care in those places to say your was the norm. I look at a British news paper usually 5 days a week.. You should see the crap they post about their health care. Today, a man died in an ambulance because after waiting 5 hrs he still could not get in to see the Dr. even though it was serious enough to require an ambulance for transport.

 

[stray]

I've been in England and it's not that bad in England. I've lived in S. Korea with govt run healthcare of about 50 million and it's really quite smooth and inexpensive. I had hernia surgery in the States in 1997. It was supposed to be outpatient, but I got nauseated in recovery and the doctor had me stay one night. Bill: 5000 dollars and I had to pay my deductible first then 20% of the rest. Cost me almost 2 grand.

Same surgery in Korea 10 years later. Stayed in the hospital 3 days. Bill: Less than 300 bucks. But hey, whatever floats your boat. If you like the high prices, cool beans.

I know this may surprise you but prices in the US have gone up exponentially due to Obamacare. That 2 grand would now cost you more like $6K because of deductibles skyrocketing. I used to have a 1,000 deductible(which seems to be about what you had) Now, it's $5K. More people have insurance but now very few can afford to use it.
Can't comment on Korean healthcare but there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Much of our expense in healthcare is in legal fees(we need tort reform badly) and govt regulations. Too many expenses for medical companies trying to cover their a$$ and following BS regulations enacted by bureaucrats. So many excessive tests ordered by doctors to cover themselves in case your cough turns out to be liver cancer later. Just watch the commercials for lawyers on TV.

 

[CleanDawg]

Again, I can only tell you from my experience. I have met numerous Canadians, worked with many of them as an expat. The ones I know over here think our way is far inferior.

“Far inferior” system or healthcare?

 

[kckd]

Well sir take the tax money you save by not having to pay for nationalized health care and put it into a savings account. If you need the surgery you will have money to pay for it. If you don't, you will have money to do something else. Glad you had a good experience but too many examples of terrible care in those places to say your was the norm. I look at a British news paper usually 5 days a week.. You should see the crap they post about their health care. Today, a man died in an ambulance because after waiting 5 hrs he still could not get in to see the Dr. even though it was serious enough to require an ambulance for transport.

We spend about the same amount on healthcare in terms of pct of tax revenues as the others. That's what is so baffling.

 

[kckd]

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-spends-public-money-healthcare-sweden-canada/

 

[stray]

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-spends-public-money-healthcare-sweden-canada/

So, spending more tax payer money obviously isn't the solution. As is the same situation in almost all other govt spending. Of course politicians would never admit this because real solutions involve making hard decisions and sacrifice.

 

[jenkinscreekdawg]

I've been in England and it's not that bad in England. I've lived in S. Korea with govt run healthcare of about 50 million and it's really quite smooth and inexpensive. I had hernia surgery in the States in 1997. It was supposed to be outpatient, but I got nauseated in recovery and the doctor had me stay one night. Bill: 5000 dollars and I had to pay my deductible first then 20% of the rest. Cost me almost 2 grand.

Same surgery in Korea 10 years later. Stayed in the hospital 3 days. Bill: Less than 300 bucks. But hey, whatever floats your boat. If you like the high prices, cool beans.

My post is based on what is happening today , they are demonstrating in the streets as we speak ! I lived in Europe years ago , so any comparison based on experiences then, would not apply now .

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

Again, I can only tell you from my experience. I have met numerous Canadians, worked with many of them as an expat. The ones I know over here think our way is far inferior.

Our system was screwed up and the ACA turned it into a complete clusterboink. The bottom line is you can't give away or deeply discount services to one huge group, pass along the cost to another group and expect to offer value to those paying the cost. I'm as free market, libertarian as they come and I see no solution now other than a nationalized system for basic services that is payed for thru some sort of consumption tax to ensure everyone has skin in the game.

I would hope folks like me could pay for a higher level of care, or at least a more efficient model but commingling public/private systems has become wildly abused.

 

[kckd]

Our system was screwed up and the ACA turned it into a complete clusterboink. The bottom line is you can't give away or deeply discount services to one huge group, pass along the cost to another group and expect to offer value to those paying the cost. I'm as free market, libertarian as they come and I see no solution now other than a nationalized system for basic services that is payed for thru some sort of consumption tax to ensure everyone has skin in the game.

I would hope folks like me could pay for a higher level of care, or at least a more efficient model but commingling public/private systems has become wildly abused.

part of the problem is the health care industry itself is full of overpriced BS for everything. ACA tried to give everyone coverage in a very bad system, as you pointed out. Insurance companies number one goal is to make money, not care for people. If their goal was to care for people, pre existing illnesses wouldn't keep you from getting health care. Just as one of the leaders in England of the protests tweeted to Trump, they don't want an end to universal HC. Just want to make it work better. The amount of people in OECD countries that would prefer our health care system to their own is miniscule. But we're Americans. Ours is always the best and they are just foreign idiots you know.

 

[kckd]

So, spending more tax payer money obviously isn't the solution. As is the same situation in almost all other govt spending. Of course politicians would never admit this because real solutions involve making hard decisions and sacrifice.

You need to ask your government why we spend more and get less. That makes no sense. We spend more, get less coverage and live shorter lives.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

part of the problem is the health care industry itself is full of overpriced BS for everything. ACA tried to give everyone coverage in a very bad system, as you pointed out. Insurance companies number one goal is to make money, not care for people. If their goal was to care for people, pre existing illnesses wouldn't keep you from getting health care. Just as one of the leaders in England of the protests tweeted to Trump, they don't want an end to universal HC. Just want to make it work better. The amount of people in OECD countries that would prefer our health care system to their own is miniscule. But we're Americans. Ours is always the best and they are just foreign idiots you know.

The health insurance companies have been allowed to operate much like public utilities and had no incentive to control cost. Due to regulations they have been forced to provide certain levels of coverage and then allowed to recoup cost times x. This model has made it profitable to accept higher cost because X percent of 100 billion is more than X percent of 50 billion.

Before the ACA, I actually had a fairly efficient model. I could buy a really good catastrophic plan with a max 10K per yr out of pocket. Sure, I would pay my family doc a couple of hundred for my annual physical or a sick visit but I was covered for a major illness. Today, I'm forced into a 2K per month premium with 3500.00 deductible. It's not the doctors, hospitals or big pharma that screwed up my policy.

 

[CleanDawg]

The health insurance companies have been allowed to operate much like public utilities and had no incentive to control cost. Due to regulations they have been forced to provide certain levels of coverage and then allowed to recoup cost times x. This model has made it profitable to accept higher cost because X percent of 100 billion is more than X percent of 50 billion.

Before the ACA, I actually had a fairly efficient model. I could buy a really good catastrophic plan with a max 10K per yr out of pocket. Sure, I would pay my family doc a couple of hundred for my annual physical or a sick visit but I was covered for a major illness. Today, I'm forced into a 2K per month premium with 3500.00 deductible. It's not the doctors, hospitals or big pharma that screwed up my policy.

I would hope everyone can agree the ACA was/is a complete failure.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

I don’t know exactly what the answer, but it isn’t Obamacare but it also isn’t the old system which allowed exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

All the Canadians I’ve spoken to like their system, but I have certainly spoken to some that have crossed the border for more elective surgeries. Seems like that system isn’t perfect either.

The problem is that it’s awful hard to get someone to go through the near decade of school and residency to be a doctor while running up $250k in debt unless they’re going to make doctor money. Any “fix” has to include some type of fix on the cost of medical education.

 

[CleanDawg]

I don’t know exactly what the answer, but it isn’t Obamacare but it also isn’t the old system which allowed exclusions for pre-existing conditions.

All the Canadians I’ve spoken to like their system, but I have certainly spoken to some that have crossed the border for more elective surgeries. Seems like that system isn’t perfect either.

The problem is that it’s awful hard to get someone to go through the near decade of school and residency to be a doctor while running up $250k in debt unless they’re going to make doctor money. Any “fix” has to include some type of fix on the cost of medical education.

Not sure about a fix for the cost of a medical education would do much other than opening Pandora’s Box for people to scream to “fix” cost of all higher education.

What about the old system with the ability to sell across state lines? Inject more competition into the private insurance market and costs will decline. Also, what happened to the idea of setting up high risk pools to cover preexsisting conditions? Some combination of these two would be a great starting point.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Not sure about a fix for the cost of a medical education would do much other than opening Pandora’s Box for people to scream to “fix” cost of all higher education.

What about the old system with the ability to sell across state lines? Inject more competition into the private insurance market and costs will decline. Also, what happened to the idea of setting up high risk pools to cover preexsisting conditions? Some combination of these two would be a great starting point.

So as I understand it, some states already have laws that allow you to sell across state lines (Georgia among them). The insurers don’t do it for whatever reason.

I really can’t speak to how well high risk pools would work. I’m not sure I understand the concept, frankly, as to how putting all the sick people under one umbrella would lower their costs. I’d have to look at that more. I would assume they’d have to be heavily subsidized

 

[MRDAWG]

The UK government is greatly under funding healthcare. They can't do it for pennies. If they paid 1/2 of what we pay they would not have these problems.

These problems are coming for Medicare. The tax cut also cut 1 TRILLION from Medicare and another 1 TRILLION from Medicaid. When these plans start to break down the public will demand better. The US government will not be able to afford it.. It will abolish Medicare.

 

[Hoffman_rg]

The UK government is greatly under funding healthcare. They can't do it for I pennies. If they paid 1/2 of what we pay they would not have these problems.

These problems are coming for Medicare. The tax cut also cut 1 TRILLION from Medicare and another 1 TRILLION from Medicaid. When these plans start to break down the public will demand better. The US government will not be able to afford it.. It will abolish Medicare.

I have not seen anything about trillion $ cuts to Medicare. May be possible over a decade but there also needs to be a serious effort to cut fraud and abuse of the system.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

The UK government is greatly under funding healthcare. They can't do it for pennies. If they paid 1/2 of what we pay they would not have these problems.

These problems are coming for Medicare. The tax cut also cut 1 TRILLION from Medicare and another 1 TRILLION from Medicaid. When these plans start to break down the public will demand better. The US government will not be able to afford it.. It will abolish Medicare.

I have not seen anything about trillion $ cuts to Medicare. May be possible over a decade but there also needs to be a serious effort to cut fraud and abuse of the system.

Yeah i need to know more about the alleged $2T cuts you’re talking about here. I don’t think they could sneak that by without the whole country noticing. Source?

 

[benchwarmerdawg]

Tort reform,,,, to many ultra rich lawyers from suing hospitals and Dr's some cap on award amounts, and if the lawsuit is stupid and lawyer looses,,, lawyer and plaintive pay the dr.

 

[Onion Dawg]

Had two surgeries this year, and I have very good insurance. Rotator cuff, a very experienced surgeon told me it was the worst he had ever seen, did the surgery. $ 35,000 to insurance, about 3500 to me.

Double meniscus, not bad, about 10,000, done at the same time.

My wife's cancer drugs are where the real expense comes in. Venclexta, a leukemia drug that we use for her Multiple Myeloma is about $57 a tablet. She takes 240 tablets a month. Figure it out. about $14,000 a month. Again, insurance takes a bath.

Add in doctor's visits to Emory, quarterly blood test, bone hardener (zometa) infusions, and other stuff, and you'll see that any kind of cancer can be terribly expensive.

We were on other drugs, Revlimid and Velcade. They were just as expensive.

I really don't know the answer. A cousin of mine is very wealthy, hedge fund manager. He lives in Tokyo and also has a home in Hong Kong. He uses Japan's National Health Care, and he said it's unbelievable. No wait at all for surgeries, and he's had a couple of fairly major ones.

I know that if I had to pay all of my families medical cost, I'd be on the verge of bankruptcy. It doesn't take much.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Tort reform,,,, to many ultra rich lawyers from suing hospitals and Dr's some cap on award amounts, and if the lawsuit is stupid and lawyer looses,,, lawyer and plaintive pay the dr.

So I used to think tort reform was the answer as well. However, in states that have implemented some sort of caps, the cost of healthcare and malpractice insurance have not gone down (or, if they have, it’s only about 1 or 2%). All tort reform does is make it harder for aggrieved parties to sue.

A lot of people aren’t aware, but we already have loser pays for frivolous law suits. They’re very rare, though. In Georgia, for example, you can’t file a malpractice suit without a doctor signing an affidavit that is filed with your complaint

 

[kckd]

In Korea, if you have the flu, diarrhea, nausea and you go to a doctor's office, they will almost always give you an IV before you leave. If they don't offer, you can ask for one and they will almost always agree to give it. It's a few dollars extra on your bill. When you see the cost in the US, it is sometimes as high as 700 dollars for the cost of the IV bag and the nurse to insert the needle. It's absolutely ridiculous and a complete rip off. You just will not get affordable health care if it is allowed to operate in the same way other businesses make money. The reason being is that the demand for it never goes down. You can't put a price on your life or well being and they know it.

 

[atlanta cock#]

You need to ask your government why we spend more and get less. That makes no sense. We spend more, get less coverage and live shorter lives.

Because they want it all. They want the US healthcare industry to continue to be the leader of the world and yet deliver inexpensive healthcare to everyone in the same efficient manner as they do now. They want the US healthcare industry to continue it’s world leading R&D and at the same time deliver inexpensive prescriptions. It can’t work that way. Innovation requires risk and a lot of money. If they can’t be rewarded, they won’t run the risk. A lot of R&D dollars goes down the drain when a hypothesis fails. If you want the Govt to supplement their risk taking, then you better be prepared for a 70% tax for everybody, not just the super rich.

 

[kckd]

Because they want it all. They want the US healthcare industry to continue to be the leader of the world and yet deliver inexpensive healthcare to everyone in the same efficient manner as they do now. They want the US healthcare industry to continue it’s world leading R&D and at the same time deliver inexpensive prescriptions. It can’t work that way. Innovation requires risk and a lot of money. If they can’t be rewarded, they won’t run the risk. A lot of R&D dollars goes down the drain when a hypothesis fails. If you want the Govt to supplement their risk taking, then you better be prepared for a 70% tax for everybody, not just the super rich.

Of course, we're the best. Just ask us, we'll tell ya so.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

You just will not get affordable health care if it is allowed to operate in the same way other businesses make money.

Agree to a point but part of the problem is the health care industry has been forced to operate with a very screwed up model. For example, my 2K per month ACA plan with a 3500.00 deductible allows my family and I 2 or 3 doctor visits per yr with a copay. However, I have to meet my deductible before it pays a dime for a specialist visit. So, my wife takes my granddaughter to an allergist for testing. If I would have used my ACA plan the test would have cost me $750.00 out of pocket that would have been applied to my deductible. The receptionist was nice enough to tell my wife she didn't see the insurance card and if she would simply pay cash, the cost would be less than $300.00 but they couldn't bill the insurance company less. (I'm sure due to cost shifting)

Imo, the only free market solution is to allow those without preexisting conditions to buy true insurance which could be purchased very reasonably before the ACA even with the cost shifting burden. Deadbeats, those with preexisting conditions and any high volume users would need to be shifted into a socialized system that operates with a heavy influence on clinics for triage and a limited number or hospitals for critical care.

 

[stray]

In Korea, if you have the flu, diarrhea, nausea and you go to a doctor's office, they will almost always give you an IV before you leave. If they don't offer, you can ask for one and they will almost always agree to give it. It's a few dollars extra on your bill. When you see the cost in the US, it is sometimes as high as 700 dollars for the cost of the IV bag and the nurse to insert the needle. It's absolutely ridiculous and a complete rip off. You just will not get affordable health care if it is allowed to operate in the same way other businesses make money. The reason being is that the demand for it never goes down. You can't put a price on your life or well being and they know it.

Demand doesn't have to go down...if supply goes up, which it most certainly will and has for many years. It's not the cost of the bag...it's the cost of the very nice hospitol, it's cost of education, it's legal and insurance costs, it's research and development for the next super drug to cure something, it's clerical costs to handle this mountain of paperwork that is a waste of time and money, it's govt regualtions...and on and on.

 

[Onion Dawg]

France has a pretty good system, but they're having their problems too. An average doctor there makes about 500,000 per.
The French health care system is one of universal health care largely financed by government national health insurance. In its 2000 assessment of world health care systems, the World Health Organization found that France provided the "close to best overall health care" in the world.[1] In 2011, France spent 11.6% of GDP on health care, or US$4,086 per capita,[2] a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe but less than in the US. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government funded agencies.

 

[jenkinscreekdawg]

France has a pretty good system, but they're having their problems too. An average doctor there makes about 500,000 per.
The French health care system is one of universal health care largely financed by government national health insurance. In its 2000 assessment of world health care systems, the World Health Organization found that France provided the "close to best overall health care" in the world.[1] In 2011, France spent 11.6% of GDP on health care, or US$4,086 per capita,[2] a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe but less than in the US. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government funded agencies.

In other words, very High Taxes !

 

[benchwarmerdawg]

France has a pretty good system, but they're having their problems too. An average doctor there makes about 500,000 per.
The French health care system is one of universal health care largely financed by government national health insurance. In its 2000 assessment of world health care systems, the World Health Organization found that France provided the "close to best overall health care" in the world.[1] In 2011, France spent 11.6% of GDP on health care, or US$4,086 per capita,[2] a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe but less than in the US. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government funded agencies.

"largely finance by government" where does the government get there money?

What are the tax rates in France?

If I am healthy and never go to the doc or hospital, why should I pay for people that choose to smoke, take drugs, abuse their bodies, pump babies out like I take poops, etc etc etc. High taxes or odoofus care cause me to pay out the nose for something I rarely use. However, I do have an HSA and put money back if any future need arises.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

"largely finance by government" where does the government get there money?

What are the tax rates in France?

If I am healthy and never go to the doc or hospital, why should I pay for people that choose to smoke, take drugs, abuse their bodies, pump babies out like I take poops, etc etc etc. High taxes or odoofus care cause me to pay out the nose for something I rarely use. However, I do have an HSA and put money back if any future need arises.

You already are but it's hidden in the cost of the insurance you or your employer pay. The argument of whether or not we are going to treat everyone has been decided. We simply aren't going to allow uninsured cancer patients to die a slow, painful death in our streets or refuse to remove a tumor from a small child. Somebody IS going to pay for the care of these folks.

What we need to do now is figure out the most efficient and cost effective way to deliver health care services and to cut the expenses of bringing new drugs to market AND insulate the drug companies from class action suits as long as they act in good faith and get their drugs approved for market.

Emergency rooms should not be primary care providers and we shouldn't be paying for ambulance rides for people with a common cold that aren't participating in paying the bill. Right now we are allowing the most irresponsible users to access unlimited care with no cost to them and requiring those paying outrageous pricing brought on by abuse of the system to jump thru hoops to get their care and then get the insurance portion of the bills paid. If you put a dozen industry experts in a resort, they could draft a fairly efficient program to make things better on all users. If you threw a couple of politicians in the room, you'd end up about where we are today.

 

[benchwarmerdawg]

You already are but it's hidden in the cost of the insurance you or your employer pay. The argument of whether or not we are going to treat everyone has been decided. We simply aren't going to allow uninsured cancer patients to die a slow, painful death in our streets or refuse to remove a tumor from a small child. Somebody IS going to pay for the care of these folks.

What we need to do now is figure out the most efficient and cost effective way to deliver health care services and to cut the expenses of bringing new drugs to market AND insulate the drug companies from class action suits as long as they act in good faith and get their drugs approved for market.

Emergency rooms should not be primary care providers and we shouldn't be paying for ambulance rides for people with a common cold that aren't participating in paying the bill. Right now we are allowing the most irresponsible users to access unlimited care with no cost to them and requiring those paying outrageous pricing brought on by abuse of the system to jump thru hoops to get their care and then get the insurance portion of the bills paid. If you put a dozen industry experts in a resort, they could draft a fairly efficient program to make things better on all users. If you threw a couple of politicians in the room, you'd end up about where we are today.

I agree that you pay for it in insurance cost etc. But in my case I buy a high deductible catastrophic policy and pay a lot less than I would if I had to pay HIGHER taxes than we already do.. I put the savings on the policy into an HSA. Therefore that money remains mine instead of our wasteful gov's.

BTW, I visited France last summer,,, they have a 20% sales tax on top of whatever income tax they pay. I also think they have add on taxes of various types so looking at the rate by itself is not the true picture.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

I agree that you pay for it in insurance cost etc. But in my case I buy a high deductible catastrophic policy and pay a lot less than I would if I had to pay HIGHER taxes than we already do.. I put the savings on the policy into an HSA. Therefore that money remains mine instead of our wasteful gov's.

BTW, I visited France last summer,,, they have a 20% sales tax on top of whatever income tax they pay. I also think they have add on taxes of various types so looking at the rate by itself is not the true picture.

How are you buying a high deductible catastrophic plan. I thought all of those with the exception of temporary policies (which really aren't protection at all since they can be terminated after 6 mths) were outlawed by the ACA.

Before the ACA, that is exactly what I did. I had no problem with a grand a yr to pay for sick visits and a couple of physicals per yr with my less than 300 per month catastrophic premium. Today, I'm sitting here with an almost 2K per month policy with 3500 per person deductible.

 

[benchwarmerdawg]

Through my work. It is 650 per month.

 

[stray]

You already are but it's hidden in the cost of the insurance you or your employer pay. The argument of whether or not we are going to treat everyone has been decided. We simply aren't going to allow uninsured cancer patients to die a slow, painful death in our streets or refuse to remove a tumor from a small child. Somebody IS going to pay for the care of these folks.

What we need to do now is figure out the most efficient and cost effective way to deliver health care services and to cut the expenses of bringing new drugs to market AND insulate the drug companies from class action suits as long as they act in good faith and get their drugs approved for market.

Emergency rooms should not be primary care providers and we shouldn't be paying for ambulance rides for people with a common cold that aren't participating in paying the bill. Right now we are allowing the most irresponsible users to access unlimited care with no cost to them and requiring those paying outrageous pricing brought on by abuse of the system to jump thru hoops to get their care and then get the insurance portion of the bills paid. If you put a dozen industry experts in a resort, they could draft a fairly efficient program to make things better on all users. If you threw a couple of politicians in the room, you'd end up about where we are today.

"most efficient and cost effective way to deliver health care services"...well, that eliminates the government being involved which is fine with me.

"You already are but it's hidden in the cost of the insurance you or your employer pay"...well, I would love to back to that since my premiums were less than half and my deductible was a quarter of what it is now.

This is huge money grab by the federal govt and the insurance companies and people refuse to admit it. Wonder why all the big insurance companies supported it? Hmmm.

This does not in any way provide healthcare to ANYONE. This is merely forcing a substandard insurance product on everyone. Health Insurance is not healthcare. Many doctors won't take it and if they do, your deductible makes it virtually worthless unless you have major medical issues. Even then, a catastrophic healthcare plan with a free market was MUCH less.

 

[gawga_dawg]

It's signing day and UGA just signed a historic class, and you morons are still droning on and on about politics. No wonder this board has become a joke.

Check out what is going on in England...their system is broke ! Up to 12 hour waits at emergency rooms , canceled surgeries and long waits to see a doctor . Some of the reasons given, are their liberal immigration policies and folks are living longer . The person interviewed from London said " America if you are considering this type system , if you do it, you can never undo it " .

That's what happens when you cut funding and are no longer funding it. The ridiculous amount of money we waste in this country on bullshit would fund national healthcare.