NonDawg New video of midair collision at DCA
- Thread starter CoastalVADawg
- Start date
Makes zero sense for the helicopter not to get out of the way.
I assume both the helicopter and the plane were basically in each others blind spots and mistook air traffic warnings to be about something else flying near them? Tragic in any case
What in the world?! How did that happen? How can the helicopter pilot not see the plane?
So weird, but I guess that is why they are getting certified wearing night vision. It really sucks for all the families and what could of been for those involved. Hopefully we can figure out a way to run those type of certifications in a much less busy place, moving forward.
It's been a long time since I've worn Army night vision (17 years) so I am sure they are better now than in the early 2000's, but back then they severely restricted your range of vision and depth perception. That could be a contributing factor here.
I’ve read several commentaries by former Blackhawk pilots familiar with that area, former airline pilots, etc. It seems there was a culmination of factors that led to this tragedy. One former Blackhawk pilot commented that runway 33 is rarely used for landings. Apparently, the CRJ pilots were asked to sidestep their approach from Rwy 01 to Rwy 33, so instead flying along the Potomac River the aircraft had to slide to the right and fly over part of the city and then cross the river. The helicopter pilots were doing an annual night checkride using night vision sights. I wonder if the CRJ lights blended with the city lights making it difficult for the helicopter pilots to see the CRJ. Lastly, the tower at DCA was apparently understaffed. Instead of the 30 controllers, they had only 19 controllers that night. One controller was talking to both aircraft and helicopters when there is usually one controller dedicated to communicating with helicopters only. The airspace around DCA is very busy and ATC staff shortage is, well, a big problem for safety.
But that video looks really close to a T bone collision. I'm certainly no expert but I would guess if they were wearing night vision, the plane simply washed out and they could see what was around them but not directly in front of them.
That’s a discussion for the chat I’m afraid.
It's really not. They've had trouble with staffing for decades. It's an extremely stressful job with horrible hours and an insanely long training program (up to 3 years). A lot of people that get the job end up quitting because it's simply not worth it. It also doesn't help that the FAA only hires controllers maybe once per year due to the length of the hiring process and training program.
Multiple failures but 2 biggest were atc understaffed and dealing with aircraft and heli when protocol is each should have separate controllers.
Helicopter deviated from its designated flight level to the higher level directly into airplanes flight level
Helicopter deviated from its designated flight level to the higher level directly into airplanes flight level
Another issue is you can’t start your training to be a controller if you are over the age of 31 and then there is mandatory retirement at 56. There are retired military controllers that could fill these positions but they are too old. But there are also thousands of qualified applicants that have been turned away and that is a discussion for the chat.
Well of course, then there's this...just demonstrated in October.
theaviationist.com
Lockheed Martin Executive Remotely Controls UH-60 Black Hawk from 300 Miles Away During Demo at AUSA Symposium
The flight simulated ‘contested logistics operations’ where a ground crew hooked up a sling load to the helicopter remotely controlled through the MATRIX
theaviationist.com
Yeah it’s strange as hell because all the video looks like you described. Will be very interesting to see the final report
We don’t have enough nationwide to have our airports properly staffed.
If you want to know why we don’t then that’s a cumbersome and complex answer that has its roots in the golden age of air travel and has persisted for 60+ years. There is no silver bullet nor any single one person or reason.
My nephew is an ATC and I work in aircraft software… I make more money than him but probably shouldn’t. That’s another part of the problem but definitely not the only one.
Thats interesting. If you listen to the recordings, every controller sounded like my 17 yr old and his friends playing XBox.
What ive seen yes the copters have a specific path at 150 to 200 ft alt....they redirected the plane from one run way to another right in the path of the copter....why the copter didnt see it not sure
Think the plane was banking left, turning underside to chopper. So lights weren’t as visible. Apparently Warnings are silenced at low altitude.
You’re not wrong. 40 years of staffing problems. We work combined positions all day everyday. Also equipment that is 30+ years old. “No money” is the response when anything breaks….
I have no knowledge of flying/controlling aircraft but I look at this through the lens of 2 automobiles colliding. The helicopter ran into the plane. If this was a car accident, the helicopter would be at fault. I can only assume the plane was in the helicopter blind spot, but it's hard for me to imagine how the Blackhawk pilots did not see the plane. They acknowledged that they saw a plane when talking with ATC. Guess they were looking at another plane. Tragic event
Have you ever turned 90 degrees at an intersection and seen the second car coming but not the first car right next to you and narrowly missed a collision?
I saw an interview with a pilot who described this crash situation after watching to footage timed with the communications. The heli pilot thought the next plane coming in was the one that needed watching. He did not notice the one close by that was blended in with city lights.
For people who think this was on purpose, I do not understand how they could possibly think that is realistic. Unless terrorists took over the plane, how in the world could you think that?
I saw an interview with a pilot who described this crash situation after watching to footage timed with the communications. The heli pilot thought the next plane coming in was the one that needed watching. He did not notice the one close by that was blended in with city lights.
For people who think this was on purpose, I do not understand how they could possibly think that is realistic. Unless terrorists took over the plane, how in the world could you think that?
There simply is no excuse for there to be a lack of funding to keep the equipment in top condition and pay enough to attract enough capable ATCs to handle the load. The majority of the needed funds could be raised by a moderate user fee per ticket.
Because a lot of people simply refuse to accept that sometimes accidents just happen. They are idiots who always think there has to be some grand conspiracy behind everything.
When all is said and done I believe this will go down as pilot error by the helicopter pilot. Even if understaffed it appears the ATC's did their job. Sad, but accidents happen every day, and I guarantee you there are numerous close calls that we never hear about.
One of the best video analysis I have seen. I don't know jack but this is very good. This was from yesterday. Shows there were probably multiple factors involved (of course). Curious to what our Dawg former pilots/military pilots think:
Potomac Mid Air UPDATE 1/30/25
Very good analysis. Damn......just a tragic, tragic accident. What I think about when things like this happen is what a difference one second makes in fate. If the timing for either the helicopter or plane is different by one second, none of this happens.
