Reviewing, is Alinsky's plan working?

JudgeLarryDawg

Circle of Honor
Oct 7, 2002
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Beware the Useful Idiots
submitted by Garret Geer
Recall that Hillary did her college thesis on his writings and Obama writes about him in his books.

Saul Alinsky died about 43 years ago, but his writings influenced those in political control of our nation today.

Died: June 12, 1972, Carmel-by-the-Sea, CA

Books: Rules for Radicals, Reveille for Radicals

Anyone out there think that this stuff isn't happening today in the U.S.?

All eight rules are currently in play.

How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky:

There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States?

Alinsky merely simplified Vladimir Lenin's original scheme for world conquest by communism, under Russian rule. Stalin described his converts as "Useful Idiots."

The Useful Idiots have destroyed every nation in which they have seized power and control. It is presently happening at an alarming rate in the U.S.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
 

blackpug6

Circle of Honor
Jan 10, 2005
45,829
17,952
177
Beware the Useful Idiots
submitted by Garret Geer
Recall that Hillary did her college thesis on his writings and Obama writes about him in his books.

Saul Alinsky died about 43 years ago, but his writings influenced those in political control of our nation today.

Died: June 12, 1972, Carmel-by-the-Sea, CA

Books: Rules for Radicals, Reveille for Radicals

Anyone out there think that this stuff isn't happening today in the U.S.?

All eight rules are currently in play.

How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky:

There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States?

Alinsky merely simplified Vladimir Lenin's original scheme for world conquest by communism, under Russian rule. Stalin described his converts as "Useful Idiots."

The Useful Idiots have destroyed every nation in which they have seized power and control. It is presently happening at an alarming rate in the U.S.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."

well, Maduro in Venezuela got it Rockin!
 

Tulsa A. Dawg

Letterman and National Champion
Jun 2, 2011
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Bulldawg1971

Diehard supporter
Aug 7, 2001
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Athens, GA
Beware the Useful Idiots
submitted by Garret Geer
Recall that Hillary did her college thesis on his writings and Obama writes about him in his books.

Saul Alinsky died about 43 years ago, but his writings influenced those in political control of our nation today.

Died: June 12, 1972, Carmel-by-the-Sea, CA

Books: Rules for Radicals, Reveille for Radicals

Anyone out there think that this stuff isn't happening today in the U.S.?

All eight rules are currently in play.

How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky:

There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States?

Alinsky merely simplified Vladimir Lenin's original scheme for world conquest by communism, under Russian rule. Stalin described his converts as "Useful Idiots."

The Useful Idiots have destroyed every nation in which they have seized power and control. It is presently happening at an alarming rate in the U.S.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
You are 100% correct. The Democratic Party lives by Alinsky’s teachings.
 

jbpayne32

Letterman and National Champion
Gold Member
Dec 29, 2014
1,050
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Happy to debate all these points 1-by-1:

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.
- Provide healthcare and you protect your people. Medicare is a government program and has 80%+ approval ratings and I GUARANTEE everyone close to age is banking on this in retirement. Good luck finding private insurance at 65+.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
-This is so antitheum to any platform. If anyone wants to increase poverty, it’s Republicans by reducing the safety net for the poor.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
-Trump’s tax cuts have increased debt spending despite the best economy in a decade...kind of backwards

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.
-No one is saying take guns, but let’s keep them out of the hands of the crazy and unstable. How about you wait 2-3 days, so we can check you aren’t one of those?

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).
-Tiny portion of the population and is a revolving door of people who need help. People are rarely on welfare for long, but it is important to keep people from being homeless.

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.
-Government, local or otherwise has controlled school since the founding of this country

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.
-Happy to debate further

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.
-This has occurred since before Christ...nothing new
 

atlanta cock#

Diehard supporter
Jun 1, 1998
6,243
16,016
197
Happy to debate all these points 1-by-1:

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.
- Provide healthcare and you protect your people. Medicare is a government program and has 80%+ approval ratings and I GUARANTEE everyone close to age is banking on this in retirement. Good luck finding private insurance at 65+.
- I don’t want to pay for your healthcare.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
-This is so antitheum to any platform. If anyone wants to increase poverty, it’s Republicans by reducing the safety net for the poor.
- Really? That’s what Unions and shitty education will get you.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
-Trump’s tax cuts have increased debt spending despite the best economy in a decade...kind of backwards
- False. Obama nearly doubled the debt. Trump is taking in record tax income. The problem is spending. Namely, entitlements.

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.
-No one is saying take guns, but let’s keep them out of the hands of the crazy and unstable. How about you wait 2-3 days, so we can check you aren’t one of those?
- Yes, they are. Although this is the one issue you and I would likely be closest. I’m against assault weapons getting into the hands of nuts. The real issue is sweeping the nuts off the street.

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).
-Tiny portion of the population and is a revolving door of people who need help. People are rarely on welfare for long, but it is important to keep people from being homeless.
- It is indisputable that there are generations of families on welfare. And to an extent, states like NY and CA have bloated Govt because they view Govt emolument as a jobs program.

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.
-Government, local or otherwise has controlled school since the founding of this country
- Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t change. We don’t have livery stables anymore either. Why do we need shitty govt education run by the incompetent tracher’s union?

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.
-Happy to debate further
- Have at it. This might be another area where you and I don’t totally disagree but the country was safer and became enormously successful when we honored the 10 Commandments.

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.
-This has occurred since before Christ...nothing new
- I don’t get your argument?? But, Obama mastered it, and the NYT is running with it.
 

Rolodawg2011

Circle of Honor
Oct 30, 2011
41,186
42,605
142
Yep, and it wears the mask of virtue. And people are dumb enough to believe it.

if not for dumb people....there'd be no Democrats. Think about the basics

DemocRATS say they are for helping Poor people and the down trodden. Well if everyone were self sufficient , where would the DemocRAT party be? And these very people believe DemocRATS want to help them, the reality is every single Democrat position is based in keeping these idiots right where they are, they hate for people to be responsible and self supporting.


So how else can anyone explain people that support democRATS.....They're stupid people
 

Rolodawg2011

Circle of Honor
Oct 30, 2011
41,186
42,605
142
Happy to debate all these points 1-by-1:

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.
- Provide healthcare and you protect your people. Medicare is a government program and has 80%+ approval ratings and I GUARANTEE everyone close to age is banking on this in retirement. Good luck finding private insurance at 65+.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
-This is so antitheum to any platform. If anyone wants to increase poverty, it’s Republicans by reducing the safety net for the poor.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
-Trump’s tax cuts have increased debt spending despite the best economy in a decade...kind of backwards

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.
-No one is saying take guns, but let’s keep them out of the hands of the crazy and unstable. How about you wait 2-3 days, so we can check you aren’t one of those?

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).
-Tiny portion of the population and is a revolving door of people who need help. People are rarely on welfare for long, but it is important to keep people from being homeless.

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.
-Government, local or otherwise has controlled school since the founding of this country

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.
-Happy to debate further

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.
-This has occurred since before Christ...nothing new

Pal you are a true leftist,.No offense meant, but you're truly delusional

1.Medicare, look up with it was predicted to cost by now, here's a hint, its a shit ton less than it actually is,

2. Maybe the most delusional of your positions, you think giving people in poverty is the want to keep them from becoming poor??? No, its a way to KEEP THEM POOR AND DEPENDENT, and Every single democRAT policy is designed to to exactly that, without poor and dependent people there is no democRAT party. Its why they fight so hard to shoot down any proposal that would actually help them

3. Tax cuts don't increase debt. You must be a millennial? Tax cuts have proven to raise Gov Revenues, SPENDING what you don't have increases debt

4. How about we don't. What happens if a woman wants a gun because she has a crazy ex boyfriend who has threatened her? And that's not what DemocRATS want, they want to ban guns, period. Everything with them is incremental , look at abortion....what started as "oh only in unwanted children early in the process is now birthing them then killing them

5. Welfare rolls were decreasing under Bush, Obama (aka POSotus) dramatically increase those rolls , DemocRATS want more and more people dependent on them, they need these programs so they can scare people into voting for them by claiming the Republicans are going to toss Grandma off a cliff.

6. Not federal Gov, the education system has been overrun with Liberals, its why young people like you are so ignorant, you actually believe you got an education when in fact all you got was indoctrinated . Most young people are ignorant, look at how many want socialism, they don't even know what it is or its history, but they want it because some idiot like Crazy Bernie or this Moron AOC says its eutopia.......

7. You'd lose

8. You're right, its what charlatans and Socialist do. They can't defend their loony positions so they have to create a villain and tell morons that they're victims and that they will punish those who have made their lives miserable. In short, disgusting , evil people who want to keep people enslaved
 

deadduckdawg

Pillar of the DawgVent
Gold Member
Feb 5, 2003
16,664
50,174
187
N of shithole
I’m a gun owner
Was really just kidding, and I have no problem with waiting periods. Crazy and unstable laws are on the books now, but sometimes are improperly enforced.

Coincidentally, I am meeting a guy in 30 minutes to buy a .357 Magnum with no BOS. I only want the gun as a blank shooter to rattle a barking Beagle's brain. I do not want to hurt the dog, but if he keels over dead from a heart attack, all the better.

I almost got him by pouring a quart of mountain lion urine, which I bought from Amazon, along his fence. He ran in a circle howling for 4 hours. The neighbor thought he was stroking out and took him to his parents' farm. I thought I was rid of him, but he came back after 2 weeks.
 

jbpayne32

Letterman and National Champion
Gold Member
Dec 29, 2014
1,050
1,120
102
Pal you are a true leftist,.No offense meant, but you're truly delusional

1.Medicare, look up with it was predicted to cost by now, here's a hint, its a shit ton less than it actually is
* Yup, and the #1 use of funds on GoFundMe is to pay for Medical bills. That seems messed up! Healthcare is expensive, especially older people's healthcare! The U.S. stands almost entirely alone among developed nations that lack universal health care...times change, we need to find a solution. We spend more money per capita and yet, mortality rates for most leading causes of death are higher in the U.S. than in comparable OECD countries. We spend 42% more per capita than the 2nd highest country and yet, we have worse outcomes. We need a new solution instead of a band-aid.

2. Maybe the most delusional of your positions, you think giving people in poverty is the want to keep them from becoming poor??? No, its a way to KEEP THEM POOR AND DEPENDENT, and Every single democRAT policy is designed to to exactly that, without poor and dependent people there is no democRAT party. Its why they fight so hard to shoot down any proposal that would actually help them
* I have no idea what you're arguing here as this isn't even a coherent sentence

3. Tax cuts don't increase debt. You must be a millennial? Tax cuts have proven to raise Gov Revenues, SPENDING what you don't have increases debt
* Tax cuts lower revenue, Trickle Down Economics has been disproven time and again. In inflation adjusted terms, government revenue fell last year despite the tax cut, despite Steve Mnuchin saying "the tax cuts would pay for themselves through growth". This is not happening as growth did not offset the decline in revenue.

http://www.crfb.org/blogs/no-tax-revenue-has-not-risen-not-really


4. How about we don't. What happens if a woman wants a gun because she has a crazy ex boyfriend who has threatened her? And that's not what DemocRATS want, they want to ban guns, period. Everything with them is incremental , look at abortion....what started as "oh only in unwanted children early in the process is now birthing them then killing them
* My son asked me after the Stoneman Douglas shooting if it was safe to go to school given all the shootings. I think you can wait 2-3 days so he feels safe to go to school.

5. Welfare rolls were decreasing under Bush, Obama (aka POSotus) dramatically increase those rolls , DemocRATS want more and more people dependent on them, they need these programs so they can scare people into voting for them by claiming the Republicans are going to toss Grandma off a cliff.
* We had the largest recession in our lifetimes, so yeah, welfare spending increased in the beginning of Obama's term, but it also dramatically declined as the economy increased. Your Democrat welfare conspiracy theories are a bit off base as Clinton was the one who campaigned on the idea in 1992.

6. Not federal Gov, the education system has been overrun with Liberals, its why young people like you are so ignorant, you actually believe you got an education when in fact all you got was indoctrinated . Most young people are ignorant, look at how many want socialism, they don't even know what it is or its history, but they want it because some idiot like Crazy Bernie or this Moron AOC says its eutopia.......
* The Federal government doesn't control education...that's states and local governments. And I'm far from ignorant...honors graduate from UGA and an MBA from a top 5 global business school. I just happen to not agree with you on many policies, but that doesn't make me ignorant.

7. You'd lose

8. You're right, its what charlatans and Socialist do. They can't defend their loony positions so they have to create a villain and tell morons that they're victims and that they will punish those who have made their lives miserable. In short, disgusting , evil people who want to keep people enslaved
* I just defended my positions without resorting to straw-man arguments, wide-ranging conspiracy theories or ad hominems**, so nice try...

**Ad hominem is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.
No offense, but I'm delusional? C'mon. We can disagree on positions, but if you just dismiss mine, then you aren't really open to a real discussion. I disagree with some of your positions, but I understand why you have them and where they come from as I lived in the South for 30+ years. And I agree with you in many ways. Just everyone on here stop with the name calling and wide ranging plaudits about what you believe all Democrats think, because there are a wide-range of views and no one agrees on everything.
 

blackpug6

Circle of Honor
Jan 10, 2005
45,829
17,952
177
No offense, but I'm delusional? C'mon. We can disagree on positions, but if you just dismiss mine, then you aren't really open to a real discussion. I disagree with some of your positions, but I understand why you have them and where they come from as I lived in the South for 30+ years. And I agree with you in many ways. Just everyone on here stop with the name calling and wide ranging plaudits about what you believe all Democrats think, because there are a wide-range of views and no one agrees on everything.

sorry,
but I tend to go full Dawg when I hear certain things.
if this post does not affect you, please disregard this message.

pug!
 

Rolodawg2011

Circle of Honor
Oct 30, 2011
41,186
42,605
142
No offense, but I'm delusional? C'mon. We can disagree on positions, but if you just dismiss mine, then you aren't really open to a real discussion. I disagree with some of your positions, but I understand why you have them and where they come from as I lived in the South for 30+ years. And I agree with you in many ways. Just everyone on here stop with the name calling and wide ranging plaudits about what you believe all Democrats think, because there are a wide-range of views and no one agrees on everything.

Pal, Like I said, I didn't mean to insult you, but you have no basis in fact to post what you post, none whatsoever. I don't know how else to describe it. I can back up every single thing I posted with facts. You can't.

Example, take number 2. Tell me exactly how Democrats try to alleviate poverty? and Republicans try and keep people in poverty?

We've had 50 years + of the Great Society. Hows it worked out?....Not good unless you're a Democrat, then it worked as planned "we'll have those ni^^ers voting for Democrats for 50 years - LBJ

Democrat policy is pure evil, because it takes away all hope and initiative....it creates generation after generation living in in that poverty you seem to think they're trying to eradicate.

With those facts.....how else would you describe it?
 

benchwarmerdawg

Diehard supporter
Dec 31, 2005
5,260
8,038
167
No offense, but I'm delusional? C'mon. We can disagree on positions, but if you just dismiss mine, then you aren't really open to a real discussion. I disagree with some of your positions, but I understand why you have them and where they come from as I lived in the South for 30+ years. And I agree with you in many ways. Just everyone on here stop with the name calling and wide ranging plaudits about what you believe all Democrats think, because there are a wide-range of views and no one agrees on everything.

Sir, if you are a dimorcrat and vote for dimocrats, you own their policies. You can say you don't believe in it all but when you vote for one, he sure as heck goes all out to destroy America when he/she/it gets to DC. So wake up. If you don't believe in their crap don't vote for their crap. Other wise, take your medicine and quit bitching about being called what you are.
 

Boom MFer Dawg

Kiss the Ring
Gold Member
Feb 4, 2015
25,808
44,930
122
Happy to debate all these points 1-by-1:

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.
- Provide healthcare and you protect your people. Medicare is a government program and has 80%+ approval ratings and I GUARANTEE everyone close to age is banking on this in retirement. Good luck finding private insurance at 65+.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.
-This is so antitheum to any platform. If anyone wants to increase poverty, it’s Republicans by reducing the safety net for the poor.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.
-Trump’s tax cuts have increased debt spending despite the best economy in a decade...kind of backwards

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.
-No one is saying take guns, but let’s keep them out of the hands of the crazy and unstable. How about you wait 2-3 days, so we can check you aren’t one of those?

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).
-Tiny portion of the population and is a revolving door of people who need help. People are rarely on welfare for long, but it is important to keep people from being homeless.

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.
-Government, local or otherwise has controlled school since the founding of this country

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.
-Happy to debate further

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.
-This has occurred since before Christ...nothing new

useful idiot :cool:
 

jbpayne32

Letterman and National Champion
Gold Member
Dec 29, 2014
1,050
1,120
102
Pal, Like I said, I didn't mean to insult you, but you have no basis in fact to post what you post, none whatsoever. I don't know how else to describe it. I can back up every single thing I posted with facts. You can't.

Example, take number 2. Tell me exactly how Democrats try to alleviate poverty? and Republicans try and keep people in poverty?
* Democrats try and alleviate poverty in almost everything they do. Here is a list:

Medicare
Medicaid
SCHIP
Social Security
Food Stamp Act
Earned Income Tax Credit
Low-income heating assistance

Here are the FACTS you want from the below study...

"As a result of LBJ's policies, the fraction of Americans with incomes below the poverty line has dropped from 26 percent in 1967 to 16 percent today." FACTS

"The biggest gains, by far, have come in poverty among the elderly, which fell from 47 percent in 1967 to 15 percent today" - due to Medicare and Social Security...

"Historically, the official poverty rate in the United States had ranged from a high of 22.4 percent when it was first estimated for 1959 to a low of 11.1 percent in 1973. Since its initial rapid decline after 1964 with the launch of major War on Poverty programs, the poverty rate has fluctuated between around 11 and 15 percent."

https://courseworks.columbia.edu/ac...Papers for website/Anchored SPM.December7.pdf

https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-united-states


We've had 50 years + of the Great Society. Hows it worked out?....Not good unless you're a Democrat, then it worked as planned "we'll have those ni^^ers voting for Democrats for 50 years - LBJ

See above, since you want FACTS...

Democrat policy is pure evil (OPINION, NOT FACT), because it takes away all hope and initiative (OPINION, NOT FACT)....it creates generation after generation living in in that poverty you seem to think they're trying to eradicate (WHERE'S THE SUPPORTING EVIDENCE? I SEE NO 'FACTS').

With those facts.....how else would you describe it?

Seriously? You've never cited anything, but just make these broad-based claims and call me a moron. Let's take the above. Just because you say something, doesn't make it a FACT. Give me some research that supports Democrat policies are evil? Show me a study that says said policies take away hope and initiative? How can we have generation after generation living in poverty when it has declined since the 60s? You have no facts to support your OPINIONS...
 

JudgeLarryDawg

Circle of Honor
Oct 7, 2002
32,731
44,584
187
Seriously? You've never cited anything, but just make these broad-based claims and call me a moron. Let's take the above. Just because you say something, doesn't make it a FACT. Give me some research that supports Democrat policies are evil? Show me a study that says said policies take away hope and initiative? How can we have generation after generation living in poverty when it has declined since the 60s? You have no facts to support your OPINIONS...

Wimp Sanderson, the Alabama basketball coach in the 1980's was asked, "Coach, how many of your players graduate?"
Sanderson, quickly answered, "All that want to."

That's pretty much the answer to many of the problems with society today but Dems choose to give to these people so they will be forever dependent on the party.
 

Rolodawg2011

Circle of Honor
Oct 30, 2011
41,186
42,605
142
No offense, but I'm delusional? C'mon. We can disagree on positions, but if you just dismiss mine, then you aren't really open to a real discussion. I disagree with some of your positions, but I understand why you have them and where they come from as I lived in the South for 30+ years. And I agree with you in many ways. Just everyone on here stop with the name calling and wide ranging plaudits about what you believe all Democrats think, because there are a wide-range of views and no one agrees on everything.

Since you don't know who to put your answers in a separate post I'll go one by one

Tax cuts decrease revenue? You say trickle down doesn't work? How do you trickle up? You ever get a job from a poor person.

Kennedy, Reagan, Bush not Trump increased revenues with tax cuts
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/income-tax-revenues-trump-tax-cuts-economic-growth/

http://time.com/4511870/john-f-kennedy-and-ronald-reagan-tax-policy/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/6-lessons-from-jfk-on-tax-policy-2013-11-22

The problem you have is in buying into Keynesian economics. Which thinks there's a limited amount of pie. Not how it works in a supply and demand economy,
 

Rolodawg2011

Circle of Honor
Oct 30, 2011
41,186
42,605
142
Seriously? You've never cited anything, but just make these broad-based claims and call me a moron. Let's take the above. Just because you say something, doesn't make it a FACT. Give me some research that supports Democrat policies are evil? Show me a study that says said policies take away hope and initiative? How can we have generation after generation living in poverty when it has declined since the 60s? You have no facts to support your OPINIONS...

I didn't call you a moron, I said you were delusional. I've posted fact, you OTOH just come back with loony talking points about socialized medicine and bullshit about life expectancy ....You know its made up right? It factors the US's accidents and homicides not just health care. If you get a serious disease you want to be in America. Cancer survival rates are significantly higher here than the rest of the world. Socialized medicine doesn't work.

Well skippy, you've answered your own question. When do you think it started? THE GREAT SOCIETY. I gave you that earlier. How's it worked out? Or are you just going to play ignorant? Take a lot at any socialist run Country, State, City, Town and I'll show you a population without hope or Initiative. How about Detroit? Baltimore , California? Argentina, Cuba.......And please don't try the lame ass Nordic Countries BS because they aren't socialist.....I know being a liberal you wouldn't know that because you've heard they were from Idiots like Crazy Bernie and AOCC , But they aren't. See Kid, your education has failed you.

https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/commentary/assessing-the-great-society

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/author-shelby-steele-on-race-relations-equality-in-america
 

jbpayne32

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Since you don't know who to put your answers in a separate post I'll go one by one

Tax cuts decrease revenue? You say trickle down doesn't work? How do you trickle up? You ever get a job from a poor person.

Kennedy, Reagan, Bush not Trump increased revenues with tax cuts
https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/income-tax-revenues-trump-tax-cuts-economic-growth/

http://time.com/4511870/john-f-kennedy-and-ronald-reagan-tax-policy/

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/6-lessons-from-jfk-on-tax-policy-2013-11-22

The problem you have is in buying into Keynesian economics. Which thinks there's a limited amount of pie. Not how it works in a supply and demand economy,
"If you look only at the nine months after the cuts took effect, you’ll see that revenue is ever so slightly down, year over year: From January through September 2017, revenues were $2.57 trillion. For the same period in 2018, they were $2.56 trillion. Which is to say, they’re down by $10 billion, in a direct comparison after the tax cuts started. Personal tax receipts are up on their own, but corporate tax receipts are down by about a third from a year ago.

That overall drop looks worse when you consider inflation. A dollar today buys about 2 percent less than it did a year ago, according to the inflation index used by the Federal Reserve to set monetary policy." FACTS

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/business/trump-tax-cuts-revenue.html

Trickle down does not work and the International Monetary Fund, agrees...FACTS
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2015/sdn1513.pdf

Also, Keynesian Economics and the fixed-pie fallacy are not related...
 

jbpayne32

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I didn't call you a moron, I said you were delusional. I've posted fact, you OTOH just come back with loony talking points about socialized medicine and bullshit about life expectancy ....You know its made up right? It factors the US's accidents and homicides not just health care. If you get a serious disease you want to be in America. Cancer survival rates are significantly higher here than the rest of the world. Socialized medicine doesn't work.

Well skippy, you've answered your own question. When do you think it started? THE GREAT SOCIETY. I gave you that earlier. How's it worked out? Or are you just going to play ignorant? Take a lot at any socialist run Country, State, City, Town and I'll show you a population without hope or Initiative. How about Detroit? Baltimore , California? Argentina, Cuba.......And please don't try the lame ass Nordic Countries BS because they aren't socialist.....I know being a liberal you wouldn't know that because you've heard they were from Idiots like Crazy Bernie and AOCC , But they aren't. See Kid, your education has failed you.

https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/commentary/assessing-the-great-society

https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/author-shelby-steele-on-race-relations-equality-in-america
I specifically said MORTALITY RATES as I agree that Life Expectancy is too complicated, but here are some more FACTS for you. The US has the highest per capita spend on healthcare, but we in fact are not the lowest for MORTALITY RATES of cancer and other diseases. Switzerland (Govt paid for), Japan (70% govt paid for), Sweden (Govt funded) all lower despite spending much less and having government paid for care.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...ies-u-s-relatively-low-mortality-rate-cancers

Thanks for making my prior point for me with your article. Here's the quote: "Material poverty has declined, to be sure. Census Bureau data show that the average household classified as “poor” not only reports having enough food, but also many amenities, including air-conditioning, cable TV, Internet access and personal computers."

Also, both of those articles are not FACTS, but are opinion pieces. Facts involve data and data shows poverty has declined since the Great Society.

Why do you resort to ad hominem attacks? I never said anything about socialism and you bring it up to distract from the actual debate...typical
 

Rolodawg2011

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I specifically said MORTALITY RATES as I agree that Life Expectancy is too complicated, but here are some more FACTS for you. The US has the highest per capita spend on healthcare, but we in fact are not the lowest for MORTALITY RATES of cancer and other diseases. Switzerland (Govt paid for), Japan (70% govt paid for), Sweden (Govt funded) all lower despite spending much less and having government paid for care.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org...ies-u-s-relatively-low-mortality-rate-cancers

Thanks for making my prior point for me with your article. Here's the quote: "Material poverty has declined, to be sure. Census Bureau data show that the average household classified as “poor” not only reports having enough food, but also many amenities, including air-conditioning, cable TV, Internet access and personal computers."

Also, both of those articles are not FACTS, but are opinion pieces. Facts involve data and data shows poverty has declined since the Great Society.

Why do you resort to ad hominem attacks? I never said anything about socialism and you bring it up to distract from the actual debate...typical

Oh Dear God. You need to get way from these left wing sites. The mortality rates are biased by leaving out things that don't fit the agenda, like infant mortality for example, the overall mortality rate raises when you judge the USA as you do other Countries, they don't count stillbirths , premature births etc, so if they die other countries don't count them the US values life so its likely that those babies survive for a period of time because of efforts to keep them alive.

The reason our HC is so expensive is two fold, Obamacare! and Government. How's medicaid worked out?

No to your comments on our poor...Thank you, I don't ever want to hear about more handouts for the poor, our poor are better off than the rest of the worlds middle class as you pointed out. That does not change the FACT that the Great society has kept generation after generation downtrodden and without initiative . Again, please explain Argentina California, Detroit, Baltimore . Poverty has declined because of CAPITALISM. Without the Great Society we'd be so much better off, I don't know how anyone at this point after 50 years of this Bullshit can argue it worked (as a positive for those it claims to care about) it worked alright, it did exactly as LBJ claimed
 

Rolodawg2011

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"If you look only at the nine months after the cuts took effect, you’ll see that revenue is ever so slightly down, year over year: From January through September 2017, revenues were $2.57 trillion. For the same period in 2018, they were $2.56 trillion. Which is to say, they’re down by $10 billion, in a direct comparison after the tax cuts started. Personal tax receipts are up on their own, but corporate tax receipts are down by about a third from a year ago.

That overall drop looks worse when you consider inflation. A dollar today buys about 2 percent less than it did a year ago, according to the inflation index used by the Federal Reserve to set monetary policy." FACTS

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/business/trump-tax-cuts-revenue.html

Trickle down does not work and the International Monetary Fund, agrees...FACTS
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/sdn/2015/sdn1513.pdf

Also, Keynesian Economics and the fixed-pie fallacy are not related...


Oh my God, pal the economy is growing at 3 - 4 % something that never happened under Obama. Do you think an expanding economy with more jobs and MORE TAXPAYERS reduces payments to your Daddy the Government? First, fck the Government they can do without IMO....But that's not what happens. Economics is my business and the guy writing the NYTs piece is as FOS as it gets

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-tax-cuts-federal-revenues-deficits/

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/income-tax-revenues-trump-tax-cuts-economic-growth/

Spending causes debt, not Taxcuts. Its NOT THE GOVERNMENTS MONEY. It belongs to those that earned it. You nor any other loony leftist have no claim to it. And back to Keynesian. Think about how stupid it is to believe taking the money from one person (taking out of the economy) and giving it to government to put back into the economy. Yeah that's Government efficiency for you .

Simple chart

More Taxpayers = More revenue
Fewer Taxpayers= Less revenue

Tax consumers = Drain on Society
 
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jbpayne32

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Poverty has declined because of CAPITALISM.
Alright, let’s keep this simple. Explain the drop in the below chart beginning in 1964. What happened with Capitalism to cause a sudden drop in the poverty rate?
1536763441612.png
 

washdog

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Beware the Useful Idiots
submitted by Garret Geer
Recall that Hillary did her college thesis on his writings and Obama writes about him in his books.

Saul Alinsky died about 43 years ago, but his writings influenced those in political control of our nation today.

Died: June 12, 1972, Carmel-by-the-Sea, CA

Books: Rules for Radicals, Reveille for Radicals

Anyone out there think that this stuff isn't happening today in the U.S.?

All eight rules are currently in play.

How to create a social state by Saul Alinsky:

There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a social state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare – Control healthcare and you control the people.

2) Poverty – Increase the Poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt – Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.

5) Welfare – Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income).

6) Education – Take control of what people read and listen to – take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion – Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools.

8) Class Warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to take (tax) the wealthy with the support of the poor.

Does any of this sound like what is happening to the United States?

Alinsky merely simplified Vladimir Lenin's original scheme for world conquest by communism, under Russian rule. Stalin described his converts as "Useful Idiots."

The Useful Idiots have destroyed every nation in which they have seized power and control. It is presently happening at an alarming rate in the U.S.

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere."
 

washdog

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There is no doubt that the socialist plan is in place.
Our press and education system has bought in and have no regard for facts or history. I hope people wake up and see what happening . Keep passing the word it's our only hope
 
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washdog

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if not for dumb people....there'd be no Democrats. Think about the basics

DemocRATS say they are for helping Poor people and the down trodden. Well if everyone were self sufficient , where would the DemocRAT party be? And these very people believe DemocRATS want to help them, the reality is every single Democrat position is based in keeping these idiots right where they are, they hate for people to be responsible and self supporting.


So how else can anyone explain people that support democRATS.....They're stupid people
Amen
 

Rolodawg2011

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Alright, let’s keep this simple. Explain the drop in the below chart beginning in 1964. What happened with Capitalism to cause a sudden drop in the poverty rate?
1536763441612.png

Once again you suffer from not having the ability to understand what you're posting. Poverty rates before TGS programs was dropping dramaticly , after they've pretty much leveled off and stayed the same. Trillions in wealth transfer and what do we have?

Again, you just ignore the facts, look at the places where ideas like yours (not original) have been implemented. Every single one is a disaster, and it has ruined lives, wealth and property . OTOH Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any system the world has ever known. That's a FACT

https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/report/the-war-poverty-after-50-years
 

washdog

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Seriously? You've never cited anything, but just make these broad-based claims and call me a moron. Let's take the above. Just because you say something, doesn't make it a FACT. Give me some research that supports Democrat policies are evil? Show me a study that says said policies take away hope and initiative? How can we have generation after generation living in poverty when it has declined since the 60s? You have no facts to support your OPINIONS...
If don't think that the Democrats support and encourage socialist policies
you are not very smart . If you think that open borders and the Paris accord was a good idea for America there is not much hope for you. I will admit the republics in congress or not much better than the democrats and that's why we gone this far left.They hate Trump because he can sell the American dream which Government has been trying diminish for a long time.
They paint Trump as a racist only to try to benefit them selves.Democrats can only stay in power if people want to be dependent on the Government and that is a fact
 

TCOBdawg

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Happy to debate all these points 1-by-1:


4) Gun Control– Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state.
-No one is saying take guns, but let’s keep them out of the hands of the crazy and unstable. How about you wait 2-3 days, so we can check you aren’t one of those?
"Crazy and Unstable" to the Left is if you don't vote their way.