Some interesting data gathered from studies on the over four hundred people arrested for crimes at the Capitol on Jan. 6th.....

[kckd]

Overwhelming majority were white males.


67% were over the age of 34.


45% had high level white collar jobs (CEOs, business owners, doctors, lawyers, accountants, mid-level managers, etc.)

The unemployment rate among those arrested was exactly the same as the public at large.

90% were not affiliated with extremist groups (Proud Boys, 3 Percenters, Oath Keepers, other militia groups)

More than 50% were from counties that voted for Biden.

The most common belief held among all was that they were being replaced by people of color. That the people of color were gaining and had more rights than they (white people) did.

Most of the counties they came from were not predominantly white or rural. But counties that had seen a dramatic shift in the last ten years in racial demographics.

Gold Standard poll found only 4 percent of Americans both believed the election was stolen and would also participate in a violent protest to protest the election outcome.

 

[DawgWCK]

Overwhelming majority were white males.


67% were over the age of 34.


45% had high level white collar jobs (CEOs, business owners, doctors, lawyers, accountants, mid-level managers, etc.)

The unemployment rate among those arrested was exactly the same as the public at large.

90% were not affiliated with extremist groups (Proud Boys, 3 Percenters, Oath Keepers, other militia groups)

More than 50% were from counties that voted for Biden.

The most common belief held among all was that they were being replaced by people of color. That the people of color were gaining and had more rights than they (white people) did.

Most of the counties they came from were not predominantly white or rural. But counties that had seen a dramatic shift in the last ten years in racial demographics.

Gold Standard poll found only 4 percent of Americans both believed the election was stolen and would also participate in a violent protest to protest the election outcome.

I highlighted the 2 points that seem strange or questionable to me. . Certainly more than 4% thought there were election issues / improprieties, i think i posted earlier that 90% of republicans and a majority of democrats thought there was a level of fraud in the 2020 election above the norm. May have simply been issues on how question was presented.

However, to go back to your original point, absolutely, older white males not happy with election results and the state of their current community were the most likely to go to Washington to participate, apparently regardless of their current position or employment status.

Bill Oriley said on his show last week that there were approximately 100 people charged with multiple felonies in Minnestoa related to the riots and destruction, only 5% were found guilty and ultimately served time. That number seems low to me, would like a apples to apples comparison to J6. My hypothesis is a lot more on J6 were charged, amount that serve time will probably be low, just not 5% low.

 

[kckd]

I highlighted the 2 points that seem strange or questionable to me. . Certainly more than 4% thought there were election issues / improprieties, i think i posted earlier that 90% of republicans and a majority of democrats thought there was a level of fraud in the 2020 election above the norm. May have simply been issues on how question was presented.

However, to go back to your original point, absolutely, older white males not happy with election results and the state of their current community were the most likely to go to Washington to participate, apparently regardless of their current position or employment status.

Bill Oriley said on his show last week that there were approximately 100 people charged with multiple felonies in Minnestoa related to the riots and destruction, only 5% were found guilty and ultimately served time. That number seems low to me, would like a apples to apples comparison to J6. My hypothesis is a lot more on J6 were charged, amount that serve time will probably be low, just not 5% low.

Four percent that thought the election was stolen and would violently protest. Has to be both. The guy talking about it said the scary part is when more supporters (those who believe the election was stolen) are willing to actually become doers (acts of violence). Even now 70 percent of Republicans still believe in the lie about the election. The research was not trying to say only 4 percent believe the election was stolen. Just that right now, a very small percentage were willing to act out violently.

Minnesota and Jan. 6th are two totally different protests. The Capitol was heavily guarded with cameras everywhere. But beyond that, breaking into the Capitol and trying to prevent the government from certifying an election outcome is just a more egregious act and a larger threat to the security of the US than burning down a liquor store or looting a convenience store. One is local and is about local police in an area. The other is national and about the security of the country. The two should not be compared. And we know why they are.

 

[zingerdawg]

More than 40% in US do not believe Biden legitimately won election – poll

Axios-Momentive poll also finds majority of Americans fear repeat of Capitol attack in next few years

www.theguardian.com

12 Minutes of Democrats Denying Election Results

gop.com

This video has Hillary, Biden, Carter and oh yea Kamala claiming the election was stolen. Kamala said the Russians outright stole it. Bill claims Al gore won because they stopped the voting in Florida. Which helped bush. Multiple offenders here from 2000, 2004, and 2016. It is like they never saw a fair election until 2020.

PolitiFact VA: Democrats questioned validity of 2016 election, but not how votes were counted

Gov. Glenn Youngkin recently gave his blessings to an “Election Integrity Unit” to investigate and prosecute violations of Virginia’s election laws.

www.vpm.org

 

[DawgWCK]

Four percent that thought the election was stolen and would violently protest. Has to be both. The guy talking about it said the scary part is when more supporters (those who believe the election was stolen) are willing to actually become doers (acts of violence). Even now 70 percent of Republicans still believe in the lie about the election. The research was not trying to say only 4 percent believe the election was stolen. Just that right now, a very small percentage were willing to act out violently.

Minnesota and Jan. 6th are two totally different protests. The Capitol was heavily guarded with cameras everywhere. But beyond that, breaking into the Capitol and trying to prevent the government from certifying an election outcome is just a more egregious act and a larger threat to the security of the US than burning down a liquor store or looting a convenience store. One is local and is about local police in an area. The other is national and about the security of the country. The two should not be compared. And we know why they are.

1. Gotcha on the 4%

2. Depends on how you phrase this comment, i am in the 70% (likely higher) that says fraud beyond a reasonable amount and way above the norm in national elections occurred. I think little if any signature verification occurred resulting in some level of fraud. Enough to flip some of the states, no idea but possible in Georgia.

3. I played a little whataboutsim here as they are two distinctly different events. One was more serious for sure and was treated as such, however the treatment of lawbreakers (IN DC or Minnesota) for felony type charges should be treated somewhat similar. You can't burn down a portion of the city and only send 5% of the most serious offenders to jail. regardless your point is fair.

 

[kckd]

1. Gotcha on the 4%

2. Depends on how you phrase this comment, i am in the 70% (likely higher) that says fraud beyond a reasonable amount and way above the norm in national elections occurred. I think little if any signature verification occurred resulting in some level of fraud. Enough to flip some of the states, no idea but possible in Georgia.

3. I played a little whataboutsim here as they are two distinctly different events. One was more serious for sure and was treated as such, however the treatment of lawbreakers (IN DC or Minnesota) for felony type charges should be treated somewhat similar. You can't burn down a portion of the city and only send 5% of the most serious offenders to jail. regardless your point is fair.

I appreciate your rational response to number 3. Not common here at all.


My response to number two is I don't really understand what would have to happen to convince you nothing happened in the 2020 election that would have flipped the election to Trump.

The things claimed:

Voting machines changed ballots from Trump to Biden: This hasn't been proven. If anything, what evidently has been proven is that these claims have no real evidence backing them. Fox News has had paid out nearly 800 million dollars for allowing this to be said on their programming and not challenging it. Smartmatic settled a defamation suit with OAN earlier. These are defamation suits which are very hard to win in court. Both voting machine companies are suing other networks that said their voting machines were part of "the steal".

https://apnews.com/article/fox-news...l-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/17/smartmatic-oan-voting-settlement-defamation

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-legal-team-false-claims-5abd64917ef8be9e9e2078180973e8b3



The claims made by D'Souza in his book and film about it, "A Billion Gazillion Mules" must be false. Salem Media pulled both because they said they could not verify his claims and a lawsuit was filed against them.

https://apnews.com/article/2000-mules-film-apology-f1c2de96f17e72241761b4e6deaee5cb

Every claim of fraud, stolen ballots, etc. was looked into by Trump's own DOJ and nothing was found.

Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

https://apnews.com/article/2000-mules-film-apology-f1c2de96f17e72241761b4e6deaee5cb

And of course, President Trump and his lawyers filed cases and took them to court and they were turned down largely for lack of evidence. In many cases, the judges presiding over it were judges put there by Republicans, including Trump.



I guess my questions are these: Do you have any claims of huge fraud that were proven?

What would it take to convince you it didn't happen on a scale to change the election outcome?

We're about to vote again and this stuff still lingers.

 

[DawgWCK]

I appreciate your rational response to number 3. Not common here at all.


My response to number two is I don't really understand what would have to happen to convince you nothing happened in the 2020 election that would have flipped the election to Trump.

The things claimed:

Voting machines changed ballots from Trump to Biden: This hasn't been proven. If anything, what evidently has been proven is that these claims have no real evidence backing them. Fox News has had paid out nearly 800 million dollars for allowing this to be said on their programming and not challenging it. Smartmatic settled a defamation suit with OAN earlier. These are defamation suits which are very hard to win in court. Both voting machine companies are suing other networks that said their voting machines were part of "the steal".

https://apnews.com/article/fox-news...l-trump-2020-0ac71f75acfacc52ea80b3e747fb0afe

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/17/smartmatic-oan-voting-settlement-defamation

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-legal-team-false-claims-5abd64917ef8be9e9e2078180973e8b3



The claims made by D'Souza in his book and film about it, "A Billion Gazillion Mules" must be false. Salem Media pulled both because they said they could not verify his claims and a lawsuit was filed against them.

https://apnews.com/article/2000-mules-film-apology-f1c2de96f17e72241761b4e6deaee5cb

Every claim of fraud, stolen ballots, etc. was looked into by Trump's own DOJ and nothing was found.

Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

https://apnews.com/article/2000-mules-film-apology-f1c2de96f17e72241761b4e6deaee5cb

And of course, President Trump and his lawyers filed cases and took them to court and they were turned down largely for lack of evidence. In many cases, the judges presiding over it were judges put there by Republicans, including Trump.



I guess my questions are these: Do you have any claims of huge fraud that were proven?

What would it take to convince you it didn't happen on a scale to change the election outcome?

We're about to vote again and this stuff still lingers.

Let me repeat the findings of the Rasmussen Survey:

90% of Republicans and Independents and a majority of democrats believe that fraud occurred above an acceptable level in the 2020 election.

I believe that statement and apparently most registered voters do too. Clearly there is all types of believes that make up this general statement. Most of us are not on the side of fraud occurred everywhere and, in every type, nor are we in the category of this election was the fairest of them with little or no fraud.

I understand the MSM and anti-Trump folks don't want to admit that even though there was some wild untrue accusations made the assertion that fraud related to absentee ballots with questionable signature verification occurred, how much and to what scale will always be debatable.

To answer your highlighted question, which is a fair one for me, have the 2020 mail in ballots signature verification checked with an electronic reader in Fulton County with the signature verification programed with a 75% required match. This was my request in November 2020 and it never occurred. At this point that cant be done.

I can't speak to any other states but based on margins it would be hard to imagine we had fraud at that scale in 2020, so i am agreeing with your overall assertion. But what if PA comes up with a 5,000 or less Harris win in 2024 and we know that Pittsburg and Philly had 200,000 mail in ballots with little or no signature verification, then we are back to wild speculation and furor. I'll give Kemp and Georgia credit, they did try to resolved this potential issue, just not sure many of the other swing states did which concerns many moderate / reasonable thinking people that has a legitimate concern about election integrity.

 

[kckd]

Let me repeat the findings of the Rasmussen Survey:

90% of Republicans and Independents and a majority of democrats believe that fraud occurred above an acceptable level in the 2020 election.

I believe that statement and apparently most registered voters do too. Clearly there is all types of believes that make up this general statement. Most of us are not on the side of fraud occurred everywhere and, in every type, nor are we in the category of this election was the fairest of them with little or no fraud.

I understand the MSM and anti-Trump folks don't want to admit that even though there was some wild untrue accusations made the assertion that fraud related to absentee ballots with questionable signature verification occurred, how much and to what scale will always be debatable.

To answer your highlighted question, which is a fair one for me, have the 2020 mail in ballots signature verification checked with an electronic reader in Fulton County with the signature verification programed with a 75% required match. This was my request in November 2020 and it never occurred. At this point that cant be done.

I can't speak to any other states but based on margins it would be hard to imagine we had fraud at that scale in 2020, so i am agreeing with your overall assertion. But what if PA comes up with a 5,000 or less Harris win in 2024 and we know that Pittsburg and Philly had 200,000 mail in ballots with little or no signature verification, then we are back to wild speculation and furor. I'll give Kemp and Georgia credit, they did try to resolved this potential issue, just not sure many of the other swing states did which concerns many moderate / reasonable thinking people that has a legitimate concern about election integrity.

Can you give me a link to that. Haven't heard 90% believe it anywhere. How did they ask that question? Some Democrats may be thinking about what Trump did while they were still counting votes. I just searched myself and I can't find that.

Even if there was enough to flip Georgia, ( I still see some confusion about what they've actually found in Georgia and what people are saying they've found), it wouldn't change the outcome of the election. Even if PA flipped with GA, it wouldn't change the outcome.

Almost every time a politician (mostly Republicans) have investigated voter fraud in their state during federal elections, the outcome is very minimal fraud found and the fraud was not partisan.

I mean we can believe Oswald wasn't the only gunman or a patsy.

We can believe that the moon landing took play in a studio in LA.

We can believe in Nessie and Big Foot.

But you have to have proof to make it more than just faith/belief.

 

[DawgWCK]

Can you give me a link to that. Haven't heard 90% believe it anywhere. How did they ask that question? Some Democrats may be thinking about what Trump did while they were still counting votes. I just searched myself and I can't find that.

Even if there was enough to flip Georgia, ( I still see some confusion about what they've actually found in Georgia and what people are saying they've found), it wouldn't change the outcome of the election. Even if PA flipped with GA, it wouldn't change the outcome.

Almost every time a politician (mostly Republicans) have investigated voter fraud in their state during federal elections, the outcome is very minimal fraud found and the fraud was not partisan.

I mean we can believe Oswald wasn't the only gunman or a patsy.

We can believe that the moon landing took play in a studio in LA.

We can believe in Nessie and Big Foot.

But you have to have proof to make it more than just faith/belief.

Its on one of the Podcast i listened too under Rassmussen Polling in you tube, its within the last 2 weeks. Can't find it now , somewhere in the middle of the podcast. If i find it this weekend will post.

I think i was agreeing with you for 2020 with only Georgia reasonably being a factor, speculating that this could occur again in 2024 cycle in PA, which would be a game changer.

If you don't have Voter ID laws similar to Georgia, Utah and Florida there is no reasonable method to investigate voter fraud once the ballot is cast. These states are trying to prevent fraud up front instead of on the back end. You can look at some outliers but you can't go back and pull 10,000 absentee ballots and go back to the voter and ask did you in fact cast this ballot and is this your signature.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

1. Gotcha on the 4%

2. Depends on how you phrase this comment, i am in the 70% (likely higher) that says fraud beyond a reasonable amount and way above the norm in national elections occurred. I think little if any signature verification occurred resulting in some level of fraud. Enough to flip some of the states, no idea but possible in Georgia.

3. I played a little whataboutsim here as they are two distinctly different events. One was more serious for sure and was treated as such, however the treatment of lawbreakers (IN DC or Minnesota) for felony type charges should be treated somewhat similar. You can't burn down a portion of the city and only send 5% of the most serious offenders to jail. regardless your point is fair.

I'd say if you were trying to ignite a federal courthouse with federal employees inside, your transgression was just as severe as anything we saw on J6. Additionally, if you owned a business in Minn that was destroyed due to the breakdown of law and order, my guess is you would think that those targeted by the "mob" on J6 came out a lot better than the business owners in MN.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...tland-courthouse-and-tried-to-set-it-on-fire/

 

[ToddBburn]

I'd say if you were trying to ignite a federal courthouse with federal employees inside, your transgression was just as severe as anything we saw on J6. Additionally, if you owned a business in Minn that was destroyed due to the breakdown of law and order, my guess is you would think that those targeted by the "mob" on J6 came out a lot better than the business owners in MN.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...tland-courthouse-and-tried-to-set-it-on-fire/

The big problem was changing of voters laws in battleground states so late in the election period. Some were done violating existing laws on the books.
The biggest issue is there are not adequate measures in place to verify each persons vote and make sure only eligible voters are voting. It could easily be done but some people do not care or outright do not want it to happen. That is what creates doubt and I believe that things happened that could have swayed the election and possibly other elections as well. I think some counties and states do not have or follow protocols as they should and you are unable to prove much after the fact.

 

[dawgfood0612]

This video has Hillary, Biden, Carter and oh yea Kamala claiming the election was stolen. Kamala said the Russians outright stole it. Bill claims Al gore won because they stopped the voting in Florida. Which helped bush. Multiple offenders here from 2000, 2004, and 2016. It is like they never saw a fair election until 2020.

How many of the above called on their supporters to storm the Capitol and try to halt the Electoral College vote?

 

[zingerdawg]

How many of the above called on their supporters to storm the Capitol and try to halt the Electoral College vote?

How many on my list committed an actual coup? They did what you are complaining about. That is why that word democracy, that was all over the Democrat platform, is gone. You don’t believe it was an actual coup. Ask Jill Biden. That bullshit narrative is done. You guys actually got a president not to run by threatening him with his job and god knows what else. Even msm left of left journalists have already called out Nancy for doing this. 25th amendment was brought up. Guess who makes that happen. Yep. Camela

Notice in his speech he said you have always had my back. Well, that has been discussed as a shot at her. For not having his back. Despite his refusal to remove her from the ticket. Even though his entire party told him to remove her.