ADVERTISEMENT

Take 1 min and 3 seconds to watch this video that...

BigDaddyDawgBreath

Hairy Cooontex
Gold Member
May 29, 2001
25,835
42,755
197
Will open your eyes to the "died with COVID, not from it" reality.

Illinois Public Health Director says it plainly - that being listed as a COVID death does not mean you died from COVID. Fuller quote from the Public Health Director:

"...even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death."

Seriously, take a minute and 3 seconds. In all the near-propaganda of the last year sometimes the truth slips out. This does not mean COVID hasn't been serious for certain key groups but rather that the effects have been badly overstated.

 
Last edited:
Comrade Lightfoot must be thrilled.

Been saying this for a year, but we have never classified deaths in this manner before.
Never classified deaths this way. Never tested for a virus in such a massive and widespread. Never apparently resorted to a single test (set at a very sensitive detection level) to solely diagnose a disease (without a doctor's diagnosis).

Not that there are not some good reasons for some of this, but those reasons got lost in the pounding hysteria. Of course those things were tremendous factors in people believing COVID is far more dangerous than it actually is to the vast majority of people.
 
Will open your eyes to the "died with COVID, not from it" reality.

Illinois Public Health Director says it plainly - that being listed as a COVID death does not mean you died from COVID. Fuller quote from the Public Health Director:

"...even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death."

Seriously, take a minute and 3 seconds. In all the near-propaganda of the last year sometimes the truth slips out. This does not mean COVID hasn't been serious for certain key groups but rather that the effects have been badly overstated.

 
Will open your eyes to the "died with COVID, not from it" reality.

Illinois Public Health Director says it plainly - that being listed as a COVID death does not mean you died from COVID. Fuller quote from the Public Health Director:

"...even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death."

Seriously, take a minute and 3 seconds. In all the near-propaganda of the last year sometimes the truth slips out. This does not mean COVID hasn't been serious for certain key groups but rather that the effects have been badly overstated.

I don't understand this continued argument that Covid's impact has been overstated. Reminder that these deaths above average happened despite the draconian measures we took as a country to slow the spread.

Does downplaying Covid somehow support a narrative that Covid was a tool of the left to unseat Trump and take control the populace? In all seriousness, why is this so important to you and so many others?

In addition, Covid long haul illness is a real thing and we have limited information regarding the long term effects.

Please look at this chart and help me understand what has been overstated.



av03lp1umvq61.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: mitchelldawg
I don't understand this continued argument that Covid's impact has been overstated. Reminder that these deaths above average happened despite the draconian measures we took as a country to slow the spread.

Does downplaying Covid somehow support a narrative that Covid was a tool of the left to unseat Trump and take control the populace? In all seriousness, why is this so important to you and so many others?

In addition, Covid long haul illness is a real thing and we have limited information regarding the long term effects.

Please look at this chart and help me understand what has been overstated.



av03lp1umvq61.png
Lots to unpack here. Let's go one thing at a time...

1. No question there were excess deaths in the last year *but no serious person thinks they were all from COVID *. A big chunk of those show no tie to COVID, with strong indication they are loxkdown deaths (suicide, overdose, neglected medical care, etc). One review of British death certificates found around 35% of excess deaths never mentioned COVID on the death certificate. That means the actual "benefit" of lockdowns was only 30% of the excess death number (because you must subtract those lockdown deaths).

2. In those actual COVID excess deaths, who is dying? By a very large percentage they are quite old and/or with multiple conditions. Average age of COVID death is at *or above* the average life expectancy age just about everywhere in the world. A huge number are over 90.

3. Who are the lockdown deaths? Much younger with far more years of life lost. From a public health perspective:"years lost" is a very important metric. The death of a 14 year old results in far more years lost than ten average COVID deaths in a long term care setting.

4. Did lockdowns work to actually reduce the deaths in society? That is an open question but accumulating research says they did not, at all. Plenty of points to make here but your main assumption that lockdowns made the death count smaller is highly suspect.

5. When you count Pat Dye or George Floyd as a COVID death (and both are under the COVID death "rules") it changes every single bit of that equation above, and to the negative. It is very possible as much as a third of "COVID deaths" were not from COVID. What happens when you take those out of the equation? *Excess non-COVID lockdown deaths could easily end up equal with COVID deaths - meaning nil benefit of lockdowns - and that is before you consider years lost between those two groups*

And if you think this is all some sort of Trump conspiracy theory you are talking to the wrong person. I believe Trump to be a lying narcissist whom I wish would simply go away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zonadog
I don't understand this continued argument that Covid's impact has been overstated. Reminder that these deaths above average happened despite the draconian measures we took as a country to slow the spread.

Does downplaying Covid somehow support a narrative that Covid was a tool of the left to unseat Trump and take control the populace? In all seriousness, why is this so important to you and so many others?

In addition, Covid long haul illness is a real thing and we have limited information regarding the long term effects.

Please look at this chart and help me understand what has been overstated.



av03lp1umvq61.png
Because numbers matter. What you die of matters. With greedy inflated numbers you can't get a true picture of how the virus spreads, what medications help, how it was contracted, how it kills, etc... Statistics alone tell doctors directions they should take. Every trial lives by them. The numbers matter and it absolutely matters if you die with or of COVID.
If your wife contracted a deadly syphilis strain and ended up dying while she had contracted asymptomatic COVID. Did she die of COVID? Should you get tested for syphilis? Just curious if that changes the game.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zonadog
I don't understand this continued argument that Covid's impact has been overstated. Reminder that these deaths above average happened despite the draconian measures we took as a country to slow the spread.

Does downplaying Covid somehow support a narrative that Covid was a tool of the left to unseat Trump and take control the populace? In all seriousness, why is this so important to you and so many others?

In addition, Covid long haul illness is a real thing and we have limited information regarding the long term effects.

Please look at this chart and help me understand what has been overstated.



av03lp1umvq61.png
Now compare that chart to the flu deaths. What happened to the flu? All of the sudden cured?
 
  • Like
Reactions: jenkinscreekdawg
Now compare that chart to the flu deaths. What happened to the flu? All of the sudden cured?
This is all deaths in the US, not covid deaths. So flu deaths are included in chart, right?
 
This is all deaths in the US, not covid deaths. So flu deaths are included in chart, right?
Right, but there are hardly any flu deaths reported in that number for 2020 since CDC started reporting Covid deaths. Here is the CDC pediatric flu death chart through the end of 2020. For some reason, CDC no longer shows all deaths in this format, only combined with Covid and Pneumonia.
PEDFLU52.GIF
 
Last edited:
Will open your eyes to the "died with COVID, not from it" reality.

Illinois Public Health Director says it plainly - that being listed as a COVID death does not mean you died from COVID. Fuller quote from the Public Health Director:

"...even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death."

Seriously, take a minute and 3 seconds. In all the near-propaganda of the last year sometimes the truth slips out. This does not mean COVID hasn't been serious for certain key groups but rather that the effects have been badly overstated.

This is a resounding and conclusive retort to anyone who has advanced lies about Covid from Biden , the WHo and the CDC. It is such a scam. Likely 1/3 to 1/2 of Covid deaths are cause by the C19 virus. The truth will eventually come out.
 
I just wonder why you are posting an article which is almost a year old and we have no update to that discussion. I understand the discussion, but others have responses with no facts.
 
I just wonder why you are posting an article which is almost a year old and we have no update to that discussion. I understand the discussion, but others have responses with no facts.
Because the standard for "what is a COVID death" has not changed during that time except possibly to get more liberal (death certificate matching where anyone who dies within X time for a positive PCR test is counted as a COVID death which is even more loose and sloppy).

Folks fundamentally doubt whether the "with Covid but not from COVID" is real or just a conspiracy theory. After following this issue very closely for a year I had not seen that video until the last day, and it is damning for those who mock people trying to say that there is a very loose standard for counting COVID deaths.
 
Lots to unpack here. Let's go one thing at a time...

1. No question there were excess deaths in the last year *but no serious person thinks they were all from COVID *. A big chunk of those show no tie to COVID, with strong indication they are loxkdown deaths (suicide, overdose, neglected medical care, etc). One review of British death certificates found around 35% of excess deaths never mentioned COVID on the death certificate. That means the actual "benefit" of lockdowns was only 30% of the excess death number (because you must subtract those lockdown deaths).

2. In those actual COVID excess deaths, who is dying? By a very large percentage they are quite old and/or with multiple conditions. Average age of COVID death is at *or above* the average life expectancy age just about everywhere in the world. A huge number are over 90.

3. Who are the lockdown deaths? Much younger with far more years of life lost. From a public health perspective:"years lost" is a very important metric. The death of a 14 year old results in far more years lost than ten average COVID deaths in a long term care setting.

4. Did lockdowns work to actually reduce the deaths in society? That is an open question but accumulating research says they did not, at all. Plenty of points to make here but your main assumption that lockdowns made the death count smaller is highly suspect.

5. When you count Pat Dye or George Floyd as a COVID death (and both are under the COVID death "rules") it changes every single bit of that equation above, and to the negative. It is very possible as much as a third of "COVID deaths" were not from COVID. What happens when you take those out of the equation? *Excess non-COVID lockdown deaths could easily end up equal with COVID deaths - meaning nil benefit of lockdowns - and that is before you consider years lost between those two groups*

And if you think this is all some sort of Trump conspiracy theory you are talking to the wrong person. I believe Trump to be a lying narcissist whom I wish would simply go away.
1) Do you have any statistics regarding "lockdown deaths" or are you making assumptions? The CDC estimates there were 375k covid deaths in the US in 2020 yet there were 573k more deaths than last year. Let's be generous and attribute 50k to normal year over year growth (much higher than the average growth per year). That means that there were approximately 150k deaths above average that were not attributed directly to covid. Are you saying suicides, drug overdoses and delayed medical care accounted for 150k plus some of the 375k attributed to directly to Covid? If so, I would be interested in any data that supports that.

(https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm).

2) Agreed with you general assertion regarding age, but I am not sure what your point is. There are many cases of people in their fifties and sixties dying (I personally know two). Not sure what your point is here.

3) Again, data or assumptions?

4) I have seen nothing to suggest that the measures we took to limit the spread had no impact on deaths. Where is the data to support that? Sweden no longer supports that argument and Brazil is an example right now that is an absolute disaster of what happens in the absence of prevention efforts.

5) Where is the data to support this? Why do you assume that the errors in counting covid deaths have all been exclusively to the addition of the covid total. It is entirely reasonable to assume that there have been misses regarding both sides of the ledger.

I will gladly read anything you have to share regarding suicide rates, drug overdoses, delayed medical care, or any other "lockdown deaths' that you reference. What I have read supports that if anything the number of covid deaths is under-reported and not inflated.

 
  • Like
Reactions: celticdawg
there was a doctor on here back May/June. Any body remember his name?
 
Never classified deaths this way. Never tested for a virus in such a massive and widespread. Never apparently resorted to a single test (set at a very sensitive detection level) to solely diagnose a disease (without a doctor's diagnosis).

Not that there are not some good reasons for some of this, but those reasons got lost in the pounding hysteria. Of course those things were tremendous factors in people believing COVID is far more dangerous than it actually is to the vast majority of people.
Explain Brazil. Their guy isn’t doing anything. That is your experiment. He says they are dying from obesity and depression. Not covid. They buried 4200 people yesterday due to covid. Ahem!!! I mean obesity and depression. You are a smart dude, but this is a horrible take. If you have had it and it didn’t effect you just thank god. And deal with it your own way. I hadn’t missed a day of work in 15 years. Thru a few cases of the flu among other things. Broken ribs. I was out a month. (With covid)I guess I was out with covid but not because of it. Smfh.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: willdup
Last edited:
Good grief. Really?
Really. This is obviously a topic you have spent a lot of time thinking about, but your post doesn't cite a single outside source to support your five points. I do my best to provide data, links to relevant articles and to cite specific examples.

You stated that evidence is building that lockdowns don't work, at all. I provide contra-examples like Sweden, which was everyone's favorite case study proving lockdowns don't work, right up until the time their numbers went to hell and are now significantly worse than their scandinavian neighbors, and Brazil, which as Zinger outlined, is currently a great case study for what happens when you let the virus spread unchecked.

So, while your short video regarding potential misclassification of cause of death is interesting, there is a solid argument, supported by data, that Covid deaths remain undercounted.

Again, I will gladly read any well sourced material you think proves your argument. I have already provided a link from the conservative, News Corp owned WSJ. Here is another link from the right-leaning Economist.

 
Last edited:
Good grief. Really?
Lots to unpack here. Let's go one thing at a time...

1. No question there were excess deaths in the last year *but no serious person thinks they were all from COVID *. A big chunk of those show no tie to COVID, with strong indication they are loxkdown deaths (suicide, overdose, neglected medical care, etc). One review of British death certificates found around 35% of excess deaths never mentioned COVID on the death certificate. That means the actual "benefit" of lockdowns was only 30% of the excess death number (because you must subtract those lockdown deaths).

2. In those actual COVID excess deaths, who is dying? By a very large percentage they are quite old and/or with multiple conditions. Average age of COVID death is at *or above* the average life expectancy age just about everywhere in the world. A huge number are over 90.

3. Who are the lockdown deaths? Much younger with far more years of life lost. From a public health perspective:"years lost" is a very important metric. The death of a 14 year old results in far more years lost than ten average COVID deaths in a long term care setting.

4. Did lockdowns work to actually reduce the deaths in society? That is an open question but accumulating research says they did not, at all. Plenty of points to make here but your main assumption that lockdowns made the death count smaller is highly suspect.

5. When you count Pat Dye or George Floyd as a COVID death (and both are under the COVID death "rules") it changes every single bit of that equation above, and to the negative. It is very possible as much as a third of "COVID deaths" were not from COVID. What happens when you take those out of the equation? *Excess non-COVID lockdown deaths could easily end up equal with COVID deaths - meaning nil benefit of lockdowns - and that is before you consider years lost between those two groups*

And if you think this is all some sort of Trump conspiracy theory you are talking to the wrong person. I believe Trump to be a lying narcissist whom I wish would simply go away.
In 2020 suicides in the US fell 6%, which is the largest annual decline in at least forty years. That would seem to put a mighty big hole in your “lockdown deaths” theory for explaining away that massive statistical jump in deaths above average in 2020.

 
  • Like
Reactions: celticdawg
ADVERTISEMENT