Today's data on why it is wrong to blame the unvaccinated... 74% of cases in a Massachusetts outbreak were vaccinated...

[BigDaddyDawgBreath]

In a town with the highest vaccination rate in Massacbusetts.

"Big" outbreak... with 74% of cases in fully vaccinated.

80% of the resulting hospitalizations were vaccinated (although few overall hospitalizations).

*And the vaccinated cases had just as high of a viral load as the unvaccinated cases* - which means they were just as infectious,

Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...

apnews.com

People are confused because the incompetent leadership at CDC / US government ignored the vaccine trial data that said the vaccines were not tested to stop transmission and advertised them that way anyway. Do not let them get away with pretending they had no idea this could happen because if an insufferable blowhard like me could be concerned this would occur (and I been saying this for months) there is no excuse the highly paid government experts got it wrong by ignoring the trial data and then willfully choosing not to track breakthrough cases.

It was sheer and utter incompetence.

This will end when we realize the real story of this data - that people got infected regardless of vaccination status but there appear to have been few serious cases (in the Massachusetts data there were only 5 hospitalizations out of 469 cases and although 4 of the 5 were fully vaccinated that is still only a 1% hospitalizations rate with no deaths resulting).

1. Stop. Counting. Cases. It is maniacal at this point.

2. Trust your good health and/or vaccines to protect you

3. Vote out every public official who keeps this up and raise appropriate hell in the meantime with every government, business and media entity that keeps repeating the baseless BS that keeps us stuck in this hellhole of confusjon.

 

[celticdawg]

In a town with the highest vaccination rate in Massacbusetts.

"Big" outbreak... with 74% of cases in fully vaccinated.

80% of the resulting hospitalizations were vaccinated (although few overall hospitalizations).

*And the vaccinated cases had just as high of a viral load as the unvaccinated cases* - which means they were just as infectious,

Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...

apnews.com

People are confused because the incompetent leadership at CDC / US government ignored the vaccine trial data that said the vaccines were not tested to stop transmission and advertised them that way anyway. Do not let them get away with pretending they had no idea this could happen because if an insufferable blowhard like me could be concerned this would occur (and I been saying this for months) there is no excuse the highly paid government experts got it wrong by ignoring the trial data and then willfully choosing not to track breakthrough cases.

It was sheer and utter incompetence.

This will end when we realize the real story of this data - that people got infected regardless of vaccination status but there appear to have been few serious cases (in the Massachusetts data there were only 5 hospitalizations out of 469 cases and although 4 of the 5 were fully vaccinated that is still only a 1% hospitalizations rate with no deaths resulting).

1. Stop. Counting. Cases. It is maniacal at this point.

2. Trust your good health and/or vaccines to protect you

3. Vote out every public official who keeps this up and raise appropriate hell in the meantime with every government, business and media entity that keeps repeating the baseless BS that keeps us stuck in this hellhole of confusjon.

I have to laugh at this post. So typical of your bias. Yes, you can show an example which backs up what you are saying. But is this typical? This totally ignores that the unvaccinated in many areas are the ones winding up in the hospital. Yes, I agree that cases have become fairly meaningless in most situations. When I was mentioning what is going on in Central Florida, I did not mention the number of cases.

As you said there were only five hospitalizations. Considering these were mostly vaccinated people, isn't that what we expect from the vaccine. Regardless of all the incorrect information out there (and I agree with you on that), the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were supposed to keep people from getting sick enough to be hospitalized or die. How come you aren't making that a key point or is that not part of your agenda and you certain have an agenda.

But what I really find funny is that the CDC, in part at least, used this spreading of the virus among those that are vaccinated to recommend that everybody wear masks in the appropriate setting. Funny that you did not use this report to recommend people wear masks. Or maybe that would go against one of your biases.

 

[EufaulaDawg]

In a town with the highest vaccination rate in Massacbusetts.

"Big" outbreak... with 74% of cases in fully vaccinated.

80% of the resulting hospitalizations were vaccinated (although few overall hospitalizations).

*And the vaccinated cases had just as high of a viral load as the unvaccinated cases* - which means they were just as infectious,

Study: Vaccinated people can carry as much virus as others

In another dispiriting setback for the nation’s efforts to stamp out the coronavirus, scientists who studied a big COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts concluded that vaccinated people who got so-called breakthrough infections carried about the same amount of the coronavirus as those who did not...

apnews.com

People are confused because the incompetent leadership at CDC / US government ignored the vaccine trial data that said the vaccines were not tested to stop transmission and advertised them that way anyway. Do not let them get away with pretending they had no idea this could happen because if an insufferable blowhard like me could be concerned this would occur (and I been saying this for months) there is no excuse the highly paid government experts got it wrong by ignoring the trial data and then willfully choosing not to track breakthrough cases.

It was sheer and utter incompetence.

This will end when we realize the real story of this data - that people got infected regardless of vaccination status but there appear to have been few serious cases (in the Massachusetts data there were only 5 hospitalizations out of 469 cases and although 4 of the 5 were fully vaccinated that is still only a 1% hospitalizations rate with no deaths resulting).

1. Stop. Counting. Cases. It is maniacal at this point.

2. Trust your good health and/or vaccines to protect you

3. Vote out every public official who keeps this up and raise appropriate hell in the meantime with every government, business and media entity that keeps repeating the baseless BS that keeps us stuck in this hellhole of confusjon.

#3 can't be stressed enough

 

[BigDaddyDawgBreath]

I have to laugh at this post. So typical of your bias. Yes, you can show an example which backs up what you are saying. But is this typical? This totally ignores that the unvaccinated in many areas are the ones winding up in the hospital. Yes, I agree that cases have become fairly meaningless in most situations. When I was mentioning what is going on in Central Florida, I did not mention the number of cases.

As you said there were only five hospitalizations. Considering these were mostly vaccinated people, isn't that what we expect from the vaccine. Regardless of all the incorrect information out there (and I agree with you on that), the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were supposed to keep people from getting sick enough to be hospitalized or die. How come you aren't making that a key point or is that not part of your agenda and you certain have an agenda.

But what I really find funny is that the CDC, in part at least, used this spreading of the virus among those that are vaccinated to recommend that everybody wear masks in the appropriate setting. Funny that you did not use this report to recommend people wear masks. Or maybe that would go against one of your biases.

You are correct that I am biased against what does not work.

Masks do not work to stop case spread. Vaccine passports do not work to stop case spread. Vaccines do not work to stop case spread.

Vaccines *do* work to reduce hospitalization, but we cannot force people to undergo any medical treatment, so everyone else has to accept those choices as the cost of protecting consent. And the unvaccinated may pay with their lives if they choose wrongly.

We do agree cases are meaningless. I think the fastest way out if this is to ignore cases, focus on reducing hospitalizations through personal care and vaccines, but defining this clearly moving forward as an *individual health issue* and no longer a *public health issue*.

In the short term I would settle for the other side conceding masks have done basically nothing so we can at least leave that issue behind...

 

[kdsdawg]

I have to laugh at this post. So typical of your bias. Yes, you can show an example which backs up what you are saying. But is this typical? This totally ignores that the unvaccinated in many areas are the ones winding up in the hospital. Yes, I agree that cases have become fairly meaningless in most situations. When I was mentioning what is going on in Central Florida, I did not mention the number of cases.

As you said there were only five hospitalizations. Considering these were mostly vaccinated people, isn't that what we expect from the vaccine. Regardless of all the incorrect information out there (and I agree with you on that), the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were supposed to keep people from getting sick enough to be hospitalized or die. How come you aren't making that a key point or is that not part of your agenda and you certain have an agenda.

But what I really find funny is that the CDC, in part at least, used this spreading of the virus among those that are vaccinated to recommend that everybody wear masks in the appropriate setting. Funny that you did not use this report to recommend people wear masks. Or maybe that would go against one of your biases.

this is cool look at the bots on twitter spreading fear porn

 

[celticdawg]

this is cool look at the bots on twitter spreading fear porn

View embedded media

And that b.s. has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Glad you are learning more about COVID, etc. so that you may be able to actually discuss something in the future with facts.

 

[celticdawg]

You are correct that I am biased against what does not work.

Masks do not work to stop case spread. Vaccine passports do not work to stop case spread. Vaccines do not work to stop case spread.

Vaccines *do* work to reduce hospitalization, but we cannot force people to undergo any medical treatment, so everyone else has to accept those choices as the cost of protecting consent. And the unvaccinated may pay with their lives if they choose wrongly.

We do agree cases are meaningless. I think the fastest way out if this is to ignore cases, focus on reducing hospitalizations through personal care and vaccines, but defining this clearly moving forward as an *individual health issue* and no longer a *public health issue*.

In the short term I would settle for the other side conceding masks have done basically nothing so we can at least leave that issue behind...

I definitely have to disagree with you on one point. This is so much a "public health issue" and much more than an "individual health issue" though people can certainly make better "health" discussions. Therefore, it is appropriate for public health decisions to require certain things and I wish people would stop looking at everything as protecting consent. I would settle for that right now. To me this gets back to the politics being involved in this pandemic and that has certainly screwed things up.

 

[kdsdawg]

And that b.s. has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Glad you are learning more about COVID, etc. so that you may be able to actually discuss something in the future with facts.

Fear porn has everything to do with what is going on.

 

[wcbowen]

You are correct that I am biased against what does not work.

Masks do not work to stop case spread. Vaccine passports do not work to stop case spread. Vaccines do not work to stop case spread.

Vaccines *do* work to reduce hospitalization, but we cannot force people to undergo any medical treatment, so everyone else has to accept those choices as the cost of protecting consent. And the unvaccinated may pay with their lives if they choose wrongly.

We do agree cases are meaningless. I think the fastest way out if this is to ignore cases, focus on reducing hospitalizations through personal care and vaccines, but defining this clearly moving forward as an *individual health issue* and no longer a *public health issue*.

In the short term I would settle for the other side conceding masks have done basically nothing so we can at least leave that issue behind...

It is funny reading this in that you both agree on majority of this but stress different things

I agree with all your points. I am probably more pro vaccine than you (although you are not against it).
I would love for the CDC to just come and say “we now realize the vaccine does very little to stop transmitting but has huge benefits in keeping you out of hospital” I know they want do it but would be nice.

 

[WyoDawg307]

It is funny reading this in that you both agree on majority of this but stress different things

I agree with all your points. I am probably more pro vaccine than you (although you are not against it).
I would love for the CDC to just come and say “we now realize the vaccine” does very little to stop transmitting but has huge benefits in keeping you out of hospital” I know they want do it but would be nice.

The problem is they cannot really come clean at this point because they took it into this ditch.

It has been known since December (or earlier) that the vaccine was not meant to stop transmission, but to lessen symptoms/hospitalization rate. But the politicians, bureaucrats and the media are so far down the disinformation highway at this point I don't think it is possible.

 

[wcbowen]

The problem is they cannot really come clean at this point because they took it into this ditch.

It has been known since December (or earlier) that the vaccine was not meant to stop transmission, but to lessen symptoms/hospitalization rate. But the politicians, bureaucrats and the media are so far down the disinformation highway at this point I don't think it is possible.

Never a wrong time to do the right thing. Again I know there is no chance this happens

 

[anon_03j5dr7l9qs90]

It is funny reading this in that you both agree on majority of this but stress different things

I agree with all your points. I am probably more pro vaccine than you (although you are not against it).
I would love for the CDC to just come and say “we now realize the vaccine” does very little to stop transmitting but has huge benefits in keeping you out of hospital” I know they want do it but would be nice.

That’s 100% what they need to say. Had they said that from the beginning instead of lying to everyone than many more would already be vaxxed.

 

[BigDaddyDawgBreath]

To me this gets back to the politics being involved in this pandemic and that has certainly screwed things up.

When politicians assumed powers never before assumed because of this that was obviously going to get politics involved.

Why is this a public health emergency requiring extraordinary powers at this point?

 

[BigDaddyDawgBreath]

It is funny reading this in that you both agree on majority of this but stress different things

I agree with all your points. I am probably more pro vaccine than you (although you are not against it).
I would love for the CDC to just come and say “we now realize the vaccine does very little to stop transmitting but has huge benefits in keeping you out of hospital”sI know they want do it but would be nice.

This

 

[celticdawg]

When politicians assumed powers never before assumed because of this that was obviously going to get politics involved.

Why is this a public health emergency requiring extraordinary powers at this point?

Are you trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't say?

Do you not think that politicians (I'll allow that the main people in the government are politicians) have assumed power before? Let's think back to wartime. Extraordinary times and extraordinary things were done. Who decided that all planes should be grounded as a result of 9/11? No, I'm not trying to compare what has happened since last year with WWII so calm down. Just making the point that powers have been assumed before that were not expected.

Some things have been done since last year that probably should not have been done and maybe others should have been done and they weren't. I'm not going to debate this all over again.

But politics have gotten involved more than they should have and part of that come from the public. Do you think that the same exact things would have happened if last year wasn't an election year and such a polarizing person was in the office of President? Meant as a rhetorical question.

 

[FortMillDawg]

The Massachusetts incident was a gay pride event (or a bear hunter meetup), which had a lot of indoor close quarter contact.

No judgment, just wanted to add facts the MSM leaves out and that non-Florida fans might not realize.

 

[Captain_Dawg02]

In the short term I would settle for the other side conceding masks have done basically nothing so we can at least leave that issue behind...

There are no "sides" to this...or there shouldn't be. Masks have been a major positive impact to slowing spread of the virus as well as other viruses that are seasonal (like the flu). Hopefully no one makes that mistake of "conceding masks have done basically nothing"...next we will have to start conceding the earth isn't a sphere and other tinfoil ideas.

 

[kdsdawg]

There are no "sides" to this...or there shouldn't be. Masks have been a major positive impact to slowing spread of the virus as well as other viruses that are seasonal (like the flu). Hopefully no one makes that mistake of "conceding masks have done basically nothing"...next we will have to start conceding the earth isn't a sphere and other tinfoil ideas.

Masks worn the way 90% of people wear them don't do shit. The number is probably higher than that considering the miniscule % that actually wore a N95 mask.

 

[Captain_Dawg02]

Masks worn the way 90% of people wear them don't do shit. The number is probably higher than that considering the miniscule % that actually wore a N95 mask.

Incorrect

 

[kdsdawg]

Incorrect

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. Please notice I said "wear correctly." I never see a single wear one correctly. Half don't even have it over their nose. Twenty five percent were wearing the pull up variety made of cloth, useless.

 

[Captain_Dawg02]

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. Please notice I said "wear correctly." I never see a single wear one correctly. Half don't even have it over their nose. Twenty five percent were wearing the pull up variety made of cloth, useless.

I am not wrong. 90% don't wear a face mask incorrectly is a false statement that you can't back up. For the ones that are is because they don't have any issue wearing one. Anecdotally, the only ones I see who don't wear it right are ones that don't believe it does anything & generally don't care about anyone other than themselves. Cloth masks are perfectly fine and are far better than nothing especially if you are still able to be somewhat socially distance. The intention is to capture the wearers vapors & droplets that are aspirated with the largest viral load to significantly slow down the spread.

 

[kdsdawg]

I am not wrong. 90% don't wear a face mask incorrectly is a false statement that you can't back up. For the ones that are is because they don't have any issue wearing one. Anecdotally, the only ones I see who don't wear it right are ones that don't believe it does anything & generally don't care about anyone other than themselves. Cloth masks are perfectly fine and are far better than nothing especially if you are still able to be somewhat socially distance. The intention is to capture the wearers vapors & droplets that are aspirated with the largest viral load to significantly slow down the spread.

You are wrong. I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you do that 90% wear the mask wrong. Even when properly worn there is a gap that comes open on both sides. Worthless. How do you know those that don't wear it properly are the ones that don't believe it does anything and generally don't care about themselves? BS, I contend that those you are referencing don't wear a mask at all.

 

[Captain_Dawg02]

You are wrong. I have just as much anecdotal evidence as you do that 90% wear the mask wrong. Even when properly worn there is a gap that comes open on both sides. Worthless. How do you know those that don't wear it properly are the ones that don't believe it does anything and generally don't care about themselves? BS, I contend that those you are referencing don't wear a mask at all.

You must not live in a large metropolitan or urban area. There are places you go to that require you to wear a mask, so the ones that don't believe it does anything or care about anyone other than themselves are required to wear the mask, but do so minimally. In areas where it's not enforced, they don't wear one at all and breathe heavily out of their mouths.

There is actual scientific & peer reviewed evidence that shows the impact masks and social distancing has significantly made an impact to slowing the spread of the virus. I was poking fun of the facebook & dawgchat science of anecdotal evidence you and others constantly supply.

 

[kdsdawg]

You must not live in a large metropolitan or urban area. There are places you go to that require you to wear a mask, so the ones that don't believe it does anything or care about anyone other than themselves are required to wear the mask, but do so minimally. In areas where it's not enforced, they don't wear one at all and breathe heavily out of their mouths.

There is actual scientific & peer reviewed evidence that shows the impact masks and social distancing has significantly made an impact to slowing the spread of the virus. I was poking fun of the facebook & dawgchat science of anecdotal evidence you and others constantly supply.

Anecdotal real life evidence is the best when it is based on true events. I haven't been anywhere that requires a mask since last year. That includes Atlanta, Macon, Columbus, Panama City Beach.

 

[CoastalVADawg]

More context on the outbreak in Massachusetts...

How 350 vaccinated people caught COVID-19 in huge Cape Cod outbreak

The outbreak spurred health officials to change mask guidelines for vaccinated people.

www.livescience.com

"The authors note that the demographics of these cases likely reflect those of the people who attended the area's events, which "were marketed to adult male participants."

COVID breakthrough infections strike summer tourists visiting Provincetown

Dozens test positive for virus after weekend getaway

www.washingtonblade.com

 

[Spe77]

I am not wrong. 90% don't wear a face mask incorrectly is a false statement that you can't back up. For the ones that are is because they don't have any issue wearing one. Anecdotally, the only ones I see who don't wear it right are ones that don't believe it does anything & generally don't care about anyone other than themselves. Cloth masks are perfectly fine and are far better than nothing especially if you are still able to be somewhat socially distance. The intention is to capture the wearers vapors & droplets that are aspirated with the largest viral load to significantly slow down the spread.

I reject your hypothesis.