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Ukraine is a corrupt cesspool? Ya don't say...

Palms getting greased out of Washington and of course Ukraine.

It's always been this way.

Not all of the funds allocated to Ukraine actually goes to Ukraine. $25.93 billion of a $48B security package went to replenish U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) equipment stocks sent to Ukraine.

That means US and NATO companies that manufacture arms/ammo/weapon systems are pouring on the coal making their product and getting PAID. That also means politicians in Washington are getting PAID for their vote.

Everyone is CORRUPT, Blackrock runs everything. Trump is in their way because he holds greedy people accountable. Wouldn't shock me if their last resort plan is to Kennedy him before/after he wins the election.

There is no mathematical way to fathom the level of greed/power that money has.
 
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Just gonna leave this here, as it deserves a listen from anyone with an opinion in this thread.
It may not be just Russia interested in taking Ukrainian land (video in second post below).

I pulled the actual article and you may want to read the whole thing and not post a tweet. The "proposed" ceasefire wasn't serious as the Ukrainians weren't involved. How can the US declare a ceasefire when it's Ukraine the Russians have invaded? Make it make sense.

"A second Russian source with knowledge of the contacts told Reuters that the Americans told Moscow, via the intermediaries, they would not discuss a possible ceasefire without the participation of Ukraine and so the contacts ended in failure."

 
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It's funny how many on the right are calling for ceasefire in Ukraine but then want us to bomb Iran.
 
It's funny how many on the right are calling for ceasefire in Ukraine but then want us to bomb Iran.
Please explain how those two situations are similar enough to be 'funny' (which I assume you are saying is hypocritical), unless you're simply saying all war is bad. I'm not advocating for "bombing Iran", but they do fund terrorist groups, one of which is responsible for killing 3 US service members, and desire for retribution is not an unreasonable reaction....and neither is wanting the War in Ukraine to stop.
 
Please explain how those two situations are similar enough to be 'funny' (which I assume you are saying is hypocritical) unless you're simply saying all war is bad. I'm not advocating for "bombing Iran", but they do fund terrorist groups, one of which is responsible for killing 3 US service members, and desire for retribution is not an unreasonable reaction....and neither is wanting the War in Ukraine to stop.

You may not advocate for bombing but many on the right have in the past before the tragic killing of the 3 American soldiers. Going back to pulling out of Iranian nuclear deal, by Trump when by all UN accounts they were following the deal, and was really at the beheast of Bibi and Isreal. The the right and GOP really wanted peace they would have put pressure on Bibi and his illegal settlement in the West Bank that are making a Two-State Solution impractical. The right has always had a hard-on for bombing Iran for any reason.

How is arming Ukraine to defend themselves from a Russian invasion war-mongering? And you say neither side wants the war to end isn't that Russia's responsibility since they started the war?
 
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Myself and every Dem agrees we need accountability. We got fleeced by the Afghanis to the tune of $2T dollars and they couldn't last 2 months with US backing. I want to know where every cent is going
You might but not every dim. Don't make such a ridiculous out of touch statement. Dims as a whole don't give a rats behind about anything other than abortion, gay rights, and power. They don't give 1 lick about the USA and our sovereignty. Are you for open borders? Why are you a dim, because they lie to you and tell you they will give you free stuff? LOL They have done nothing to help. They want the poor to remain poor and dependent on them.
 
I pulled the actual article and you may want to read the whole thing and not post a tweet. The "proposed" ceasefire wasn't serious as the Ukrainians weren't involved. How can the US declare a ceasefire when it's Ukraine the Russians have invaded? Make it make sense.

"A second Russian source with knowledge of the contacts told Reuters that the Americans told Moscow, via the intermediaries, they would not discuss a possible ceasefire without the participation of Ukraine and so the contacts ended in failure."

I read the article. Wouldn't have posted a link to it, otherwise.

Pretty sure that the US could get Ukraine to the table for negotiations if that was the desired path. It's not.

You and Will are both ignoring the main point of the post, which is the video.
 
You may not advocate for bombing but many on the right have in the past before the tragic killing of the 3 American soldiers. Going back to pulling out of Iranian nuclear deal....

I don't recall anybody seriously calling to bomb Iran when we cancelled that deal. Do you have a link?

by Trump when by all UN accounts they were following the deal...

They were not following the deal. The UN wasn't even allowed to inspect all facilities, including those well-fortified & deeply buried. Gee, I wonder why? You're not this naive. Iran's efforts to do what they wanted in violation of that "deal" were one of the worst kept secrets around...and no, I will not provide a link ;)

and was really at the beheast of Bibi and Isreal.

There were numerous reasons that was a bad deal & it has nothing to do with Israel. Nobody should want a Nuclear-armed Iran.


The right has always had a hard-on for bombing Iran for any reason.

Among other things, they're the world's largest funder of terrorism. Beyond that, I'm not sure how you measure when a 'hard on' occurs vs. simply wanting Iran to pay for their actions (instead of the US releasing Billions to an evil actor).

How is arming Ukraine to defend themselves from a Russian invasion war-mongering? And you say neither side wants the war to end isn't that Russia's responsibility since they started the war?

You're asking loaded questions & setting premises I never approached. When is wanting a war to end via cease fire a bad thing? Isn't that what the left is pushing for in Gaza? Aren't the Ukrainian people suffering? Isn't that the entire purpose of supporting Ukraine...to have the war end w/o Russia overtaking them?

My point was simply asking what you meant, because it doesn't take any sort of cognitive dissonance or illogical jump of logic to support both the things you implied were polar opposite positions. In fact, your expanded explanation of both proves my point...they're both complicated situations that are not mutually exclusive.
 
I read the article. Wouldn't have posted a link to it, otherwise.

Pretty sure that the US could get Ukraine to the table for negotiations if that was the desired path. It's not.

You and Will are both ignoring the main point of the post, which is the video.
So the desired path should be to force Ukraine to cede territory for the second time in the past decade? That’s what we pushed for after Russia took Crimea and how did that work out for everyone involved? There is zero reason to believe that Putin will remain happy and peaceful with whatever he gets this time.
 
We didn't deal with him previously...and how far are you willing to go in the future? There is no good answer here. We've been inconsistent with him over multiple administrations, and have no way of directly stopping him, outside of war, if he chooses to invade another country. What's the plan? Hope that he gives up? Hope that he doesn't do it again? Throwing money at Ukraine is a highly inefficient way of "dealing" with him.


It's reason to reassess the wildly irresponsible way we have spent and even sent cash. There should have been a plan, not tied to emotionally throwing money at a problem. I'm fine with responsible aid, tied to a specific strategy, with demonstrably helpful ways to defeat or dissuade Russia from continuing to fight.


Meaningful, but not strategically significant to us. Repeating myself, their nuclear arsenal will continue to keep us from stopping them from invading anybody that is not a NATO ally. Nothing they have lost affects any of our national strategy.

What do we do if Russia decides to employ a low-yield nuke? Is that worth escalating our involvement? Actively engaging? The more desperate Putin becomes, the more likely he would be to engage like that...And if he's not close to considering that....he's nowhere close to stopping (nor the Russian mil as hurt as claimed) & is clearly willing to wait us out for an extended time.

FWIW, I'm not sure I would trust any non-classified assessment re: Russia's losses. There is propaganda on all sides. It's either a stalemate or Russia is dominating & biding time. There is no sign that Ukraine is wearing down Putin's resolve. We can't hope Russian citizens will revolt or that Putin will die....both of which would be best-case scenario for us.



I reject the either/or. Russia is the same threat to us and the region, regardless of how Ukraine ends. There is a legit argument that prolonging the war increases the threat of a nuclear exchange. How do you balance that threat with any other hypothetical?

I want small-scale, smart support and not throwing cash at the problem or doing stupid stuff like buying Belgium-reject F-16s for Ukraine that will make no meaningful difference. I could be convinced that providing Ukraine with capability to strike Russia in Russia is a reasonable escalation, if it increases the chance of victory.

I want a plan, a timeline, and meaningful support from European allies, who have failed to live up to their fully promised support.

I want more economic sanctions that go farther and shut Russia off from outside support, I want to put pressure on China to stop supporting Russia. We have tools to do all of the above, but not the political will to do so, because it's far too easy to throw $$ at a problem and because we have become far too cozy with China and fear doing anything against them. We treat them like the Soup Nazi 😆 Their active & passive lobbying within the US system is nauseating & could be stopped, if we had the will to do so.

We have zero strategy to help Ukraine win. Hoping they survive until Russia gives up is a waste of time and resources. I fully reject our current strategy. Ukraine either wins or we cut our losses.

We have bigger, long-term problems we're facing than letting the prospect of another invasion by a 73 year old with reported health issues & a depleted military, conscript troops, and a massive Ukrainian rebuild incoming, continue to dictate how & when we engage or deter him. This full-on reaction mode by us with everything is non-sustainable.
Back when this first started the leftist of chat all said brandon was doing great and that his sanctions would bankrupt them in 90 days. You can check it out. I don't remember if it was Jbpayne or shonuff, but all the leftist agreed with him. 90 days and it would all be over thanks to master politician brandon.
 
So the desired path should be to force Ukraine to cede territory for the second time in the past decade? That’s what we pushed for after Russia took Crimea and how did that work out for everyone involved? There is zero reason to believe that Putin will remain happy and peaceful with whatever he gets this time.
You may have never negotiated an agreement before so let me fill you in. What you are critiquing is what we call an initial proposal. You go to the table with a thing called a counter proposal. Then the discussions begin. But the main thing is that going into talks generally shortens the war and saves lives. Conflicts like this drag on and on, otherwise. Diplomacy is preferable to war. Considering the losses sustained on both sides, not to mention the looming threat of escalation, I'd say there's reason to negotiate.
 
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Back when this first started the leftist of chat all said brandon was doing great and that his sanctions would bankrupt them in 90 days. You can check it out. I don't remember if it was Jbpayne or shonuff, but all the leftist agreed with him. 90 days and it would all be over thanks to master politician brandon.

I'm not sure what was said here or who said it, but there was definitely talk nationally about how Russia's economy would crash as a result of sanctions...hell, I believed it, too.

This, is interesting and a bit disheartening...even if it's not the entire picture (and I believe we can blame their team-up with China for this)

 
You may have never negotiated an agreement before so let me fill you in. What you are critiquing is what we call an initial proposal. You go to the table with a thing called a counter proposal. Then the discussions begin. But the main thing is that going into talks generally shortens the war and saves lives. Conflicts like this drag on and on, otherwise. Diplomacy is preferable to war. Considering the losses sustained on both sides, not to mention the looming threat of escalation, I'd say there's reason to negotiate.
I’ve successfully sold two companies that I started from scratch, so we can dispense with the remedial lesson on negotiations.

Russia is the belligerent that started this war. If they want to negotiate they should put an offer on the table that reflects an actual desire to conclude the war that they started. They have not done that.
 
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I’ve successfully sold two companies that I started from scratch, so we can dispense with the remedial lesson on negotiations.

Russia is the belligerent that started this war. If they want to negotiate they should put an offer on the table that reflects an actual desire to conclude the war that they started. They have not done that.
Then I shouldn't have to explain that an initial offer isn't how you make a decision, and that you never start with your best offer. I continue to stress that communication is the key to resolution. Finding reasons to avoid negotiation does nothing but prolong conflict and loss of life.

I was a little snarky because I felt you already knew that. I apologize for the tone.

The Kennedy video in my first post was the main point. In it, he describes the land grab going on in Ukraine right now, and I don't mean the Russians. And yes, money laundering and kickbacks are a thing.
 
Then I shouldn't have to explain that an initial offer isn't how you make a decision, and that you never start with your best offer. I continue to stress that communication is the key to resolution. Finding reasons to avoid negotiation does nothing but prolong conflict and loss of life.

I was a little snarky because I felt you already knew that. I apologize for the tone.

The Kennedy video in my first post was the main point. In it, he describes the land grab going on in Ukraine right now, and I don't mean the Russians. And yes, money laundering and kickbacks are a thing.
No worries on the tone. I apologize for my response. I am called all sorts of horrible things here on a regular basis, but for some reason, questioning my negotiating skills hit me the wrong way. Funny.

My experience suggests that bad faith negotiations can be worse than no negotiations at all, but opinions vary. Putin could end the conflict that he started in a day, but we all know that won’t happen.

Eisenhower’s warning about the military-industrial complex is one of the most prescient things ever offered by a president, so you’ll get no argument from me about the need to stay vigilant. It doesn’t change the fact that, in my opinion, Putin isn’t a rational actor and his recent interview with Tucker made very clear that his territorial aspirations extend beyond Ukraine.
 
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5 Ukraine officials arrested for taking $40 million from the war fund. Just a drop in the bucket for how deep the corruption likely goes. Let's give troll Zelensky another $50 billion dollars just because
OK, this justifies let Putin take the country. Let the Russian army slaughter thousands of citizens, Let Russia start their attack on Poland. What could go wrong?
 
Then I shouldn't have to explain that an initial offer isn't how you make a decision, and that you never start with your best offer. I continue to stress that communication is the key to resolution. Finding reasons to avoid negotiation does nothing but prolong conflict and loss of life.

I was a little snarky because I felt you already knew that. I apologize for the tone.

The Kennedy video in my first post was the main point. In it, he describes the land grab going on in Ukraine right now, and I don't mean the Russians. And yes, money laundering and kickbacks are a thing.
Is this a position Ukraine is supposed to engage with to start negotiations?

 
The investment us hardly cheep when were not properly funding other military areas, and as I've said in other threads, they're not touching their nuclear capabilities, which is the only thing that we ultimately care about or has any real strategic impact.
True to some extent but there are other strategic components than just nuclear threats. It’s been 80 years since a nuke was used and the war material for regular strategic initiatives has more “non-apocalyptic” importance.

We outspends Russia by almost 10-1. We send aid to the Ukraine, Russia uses up their assets, have to spend more, they go broke. It worked in 1980. It might work again

The one thing here is they are learning what works and what doesn’t. The problem with Russia is historically their leadership is too controlling of their own people to adapt. But they are getting a good lesson on modern warfare.

BUT…so are we. We watch, learn, and keep shoving chips on the table without risking American lives.

I’m not saying I’m for or against this thing…just speaking to the advantages.
 
Is this a position Ukraine is supposed to engage with to start negotiations?

Yasmina uses language, twice, that is found nowhere in Sergey Lavrov's statement. That's an opinion, not a quote. I'm guessing that Yasmina does not represent the Kremlin any more than you do.

What Lavrov says is they are open to negotiations, but the other guys (Ukraine) haven't put an offer on the table, yet. I wouldn't take that entirely at face value, but it would be up to Team Zelensky to respond.

Even if he had made demands, that's just saber rattling for public consumption. It's so common we have a word for it. None of it matters until they sit down in private. The longer they wait, the longer it takes, and the more people die.
 
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