in 2011 vermont set up a single payer system and prof gruber, an obamacare designer, was involved in establishing this system . the system was shut down in 2014 , due to cost overages . now colorado wants to put it on the ballot in 2016 . what does it take for libs to get a clue ?
universal health care ( single payer )
- Thread starter jenkinscreekdawg
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You may want to look up the Apollo Alliance and look at their role in developing Obamacare. Harry Reid thanked them on more than one occasion publicly for doing so.
I'm all for single payer on the national level. A state can't negotiate prices with health care, equipment and prescription drug suppliers. that is the biggest obstacle on a state level, that and those with the biggest need just crossing state lines and flooding the system.
Why do libs want single payer? What country has single payer that you honestly believe provides better healthcare than the US? If you were diagnosed with cancer, would you feel more confident being treated in Canada or Europe or South America? I have yet to see a society as diverse and successful as the US that provides an efficient, well run single payer system that provides healthcare at the speed and quality that is provided in the US.
I'm certainly not defending the insurance carriers. I cant stand them as much as the next guy, but do you honestly think the Govt can do a better job than the private sector? Is it truly about healthcare or is it about envy of the financial success of the medical providers? Because single payer doesn't address quality healthcare, and the evidence is crystal clear that the Govt does not do a better job. In fact, bitch about insurance and drug companies all you want the evidence shows the Govt does a worse job. Look no further than the VA, but there are many more examples.
I'm certainly not defending the insurance carriers. I cant stand them as much as the next guy, but do you honestly think the Govt can do a better job than the private sector? Is it truly about healthcare or is it about envy of the financial success of the medical providers? Because single payer doesn't address quality healthcare, and the evidence is crystal clear that the Govt does not do a better job. In fact, bitch about insurance and drug companies all you want the evidence shows the Govt does a worse job. Look no further than the VA, but there are many more examples.
I'd be fine being treated for a life threatening illness under a single payer system. It's non-emergency problems that are back burnered in first world-single payer countries. They deal with need first over the quality of insurance, which often dictates care in this country.
A huge advantage to a NATIONAL single payer system would be collective negotiations of prices. We supply MOST of the profits for the various for profit medical care, drug and other med-supply companies. I researched back in 2006 and found Phizer sold only 35% of their product in The U.S. yet 90% of their profits came from those sales..why ? It's because Congress is in the drug companies' pockets. They will not allow collective negotiations. If we went to single payer and Congress did their duty, we'd see a decline in cost in this country, and an increase in other single payer countries as the profit margins leveled themselves out.
You should join the military then. You could have all the government, single payer Healthcare that you could stand.
I spent 6 years active duty in The Air Force from 83 thru 88, I don't think they'd be interested in my tired old ass.
I'm not trying to sell any of the usual responders on this board, ideologies are too set to change minds.
LOL! The only thing I've seen you right about on this board j/k.
As for single payer, I'd rather keep the government out of my life as much as possible. Don't want it, don't need it, and dam sure don't welcome it.
I'm usually right, almost always on big issues.
You confuse your rigid ideologies with accuracy and intelligence.
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.”
― Joseph Joubert
479 × 359 - remarkableleader.wordpress.com
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.”
― Joseph Joubert
479 × 359 - remarkableleader.wordpress.com
''those who never retract their opinions'', that's too rich. When do you and the collective EVER budge from your far right play book ? Every opinion you post when it comes to politics and social issues is predictable and completely rigid.
That's a falsehood.
I'm not right wing. I'm all over the board but more a fiscal conservative and sometimes
social Libertarian. I don't care about a ton of issues the far right espouses. I am a true independent
in regards to a lot of social issues. Fiscally I feel the Republican Party abandoned me 2 decades back.
I'm just playing with you with the quotes, Heulen. I've come to appreciate a lot of what you post.
You usually don't answer the dog whistle like Whitepug and are far more informed and open-minded
in regard to putting thought into each individual topic rather than clinging to groupthink of a party.
I guarantee if you read me as completely predictable then you've never read me with the exception
of through the filter of ONE topic only.
I'm not right wing. I'm all over the board but more a fiscal conservative and sometimes
social Libertarian. I don't care about a ton of issues the far right espouses. I am a true independent
in regards to a lot of social issues. Fiscally I feel the Republican Party abandoned me 2 decades back.
I'm just playing with you with the quotes, Heulen. I've come to appreciate a lot of what you post.
You usually don't answer the dog whistle like Whitepug and are far more informed and open-minded
in regard to putting thought into each individual topic rather than clinging to groupthink of a party.
I guarantee if you read me as completely predictable then you've never read me with the exception
of through the filter of ONE topic only.
a friend in england had to wait 18 months for a hip replacement , almost too late , lot's of pain. a member of parliament stated on tv that they would like to go back to a traditional health system; but now the national health system is one of their biggest employer ,which makes it tough to make a change . this liberal nonplanning keeps europe in a turmoil, immigration is another example of this type of entrapment .
A quick check yielded an article in Business Insider where their poll/survey showed 61% of Brits were satisfied with their healthcare system, while 29% of Americans were satisfied with ours.
You can find antidotal evidence for literally any position you care to. There is always SOMEBODY whose experience was negative.
Obviously, you have a scary misunderstanding on how ecomomics works? Everybody can't drive a BMW. What happens is we all end up with Yugos and the collective debt of BMWs.
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No, what we need to do is allow free markets to function properly. We didn't have free market. Healthcare is and was being controlled by the Insurance and drug companies. That's the problem. Youre throwing the baby out with the bath water.
If the VA scandals didn't prove how bad single-payer could be here, we haven't learned a thing.
Chicken Little strikes again: "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
Every day you Konservativs have something to bitch and moan about and predict doom and gloom.
And the dog whistle is officially sounded. 'Hit Dawg Yelps' has arrived!
“Those who never retract their opinions love themselves more than they love truth.”
― Joseph Joubert
479 × 359 - remarkableleader.wordpress.com
You're telling on yourself right there, Chicken Little!
The problem is WHERE do the 40% of Brits that aren't satisfied with their "FREE" system go for recourse and HOW could only 61% of folks be satisfied with a "FREE" service. Hint: The 60% that are satisfied are folks that have never had to use the system except for minor ailments.
Single payer is ABSOLUTELY great for giving vaccinations and passing out antibiotics. However, since "FREE" services tend to become very overused, very quickly, in order to keep the system from spending every dollar or lb from here to eternity, services MUST be rationed. I can sue my ins company if they won't pay for a needed service or if they won't allow me to be treated in a timely fashion. If a private insurer only contracts with enough doctors to provide a hip replacement after an 18 mth wait, they will be out of business shortly. A government system that fails to perform efficiently just grabs more money until there is no more money then the inevitable shortages and rationing arrives.
You see, until O'care, if I thought my insurers weren't living up to their promises, I had recourse available to me. I could switch plans. Under O'care, I still have a right to sue if my insurance company doesn't deliver needed services but that right will be limited as costs begin to explode and insurers begin to seek relief to stay viable. Under a fully operational single payer system where the government takes over, you no longer have recourse and since government employees don't care if the government gets sued, you will see quality of care suffer.
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You have a ridiculous lack of understanding life.
How obnoxious a pretender are you, that's rhetorical, the answer is VERY.
I have a good grasp of the problems with healthcare in this country, something you are likely incapable of.
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I hate these false arguments presented as if they have meaning. Who called single payer ''free''?.. that would be you.
I'll add. We have the highest infant mortality rate, the second highest preventable death rate, the lowest citizen satisfaction rate with our healthcare and the highest per-capita cost of any industrialized western nation, and We're the only ones without some form of universal healthcare.
To me this is another step towards backwater banana republic status.
To me this is another step towards backwater banana republic status.
Whitepugs new dog whistle reply is 'Chicken Little'.
Y'all get used to it. It will be seen here over and over for every response.
Maybe he should set up a keyboard action? Save his time for the
Halls of Acadamia and the Ivory Tower that rises above the 'Fever Swamp'.
You got nothing to add to any conversation. No wonder Rolo dogs your ass like a child. You deserve all disrespect that comes your way.
Y'all get used to it. It will be seen here over and over for every response.
Maybe he should set up a keyboard action? Save his time for the
Halls of Acadamia and the Ivory Tower that rises above the 'Fever Swamp'.
You got nothing to add to any conversation. No wonder Rolo dogs your ass like a child. You deserve all disrespect that comes your way.
if this is all true, why did people come here from around the world for treatment ? obamacare is the step backward .
I'd rather have the best healthcare in the world.
We're ranked 6th in quality of healthcare out of 11 western nations. We don't rank near the top in any category.
The same is true for education, which is tougher to solve, but We could improve healthcare if the will was there.
Too many of you are willing to buy into ideological BS.
Rich people fly from The US to France and other nations for some treatments, the best doctors are not all in one country.
A truth is the overall cost of healthcare is increasing at the slowest rate in over 60 years, some deductibles are higher, the FACTUAL verdict is years away from fruition.
canadians drive across the border every day for treatment and pay cash . my doctor , who is located in the southeast, treats " snowbirds " from canada all the time, and he said they are unhappy with the wait times and are glad to pay cash . if single payer is so good , you have to ask " why do they do this " ? i forgot to mention that they make needed appointments BEFORE coming south .
Health Affairs did a study they titled 'Phantoms In The Snow' back in 2002. They checked with 136 ambulatory health clinics nearest the Canadian border in NY, Maine, Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. They found very few cases of Canadians use of them. 80% said they saw fewer than 1 a month. They also used 2 other methods and came up with a statistically insignificant numbers of cases.
This is why statistics are the only good measure.
Yes they do. There was a recent case in the news, but I don't have full recall of the specifics. Also many disfigured Americans go to a great plastic surgeon in Brazil, among ,I'm sure, other great doctors in various specialties around the world.
statistics are a lot like polls , depends on the quality of the input and the goal trying to be obtained , but hey , google will give different versions . i don't know about brazil, but costa rica is a" hot spot " for plastic surgery, during my many trips there i had opportunities to visit with a lot of espanic women who came down from florida for surgery; but it was based on COST .
True, but France is considered among the very top countries in some medical fields. They are second only to The US in medical research, and they're ahead of us in some areas. It's these cutting edge areas where some of their Mayo type clinics get patients from all over the world.
