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We had a great discussion on masks going on the main Vent so I thought...

BigDaddyDawgBreath

Hairy Cooontex
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May 29, 2001
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I would keep the love going here today.

For those who did not see it @MedicalDawg posted (truly) some great information about C19 and heart conditions. Showed what he (and many others, except for the B10) were saying last year that the heart inflammation issue was not a reason to cancel sports.

However, with respect to another Dawg, Medical got political at the end and compared Texas dropping their mask mandate to Alabama putting in Hurts to beat us at the end of the SECC Game.

That was both scientifically unjustified, and a low blow for one Dawg to deliver to another.

I asked in that thread - and ask here again - where is the observational real-world data showing that mask mandates have worked, as Medical Dawg (and several others) in that thread said was the case? We have a year of experience around the world now where we can cast aside models/lab projections and see if mask mandates have worked as mass-population intervention against C19.

Reminder - the CDC said last year masks were as effective - if not more effective - than a vaccine at stopping C19.

Where is the data consistent with that hypothesis?

As a warmup, here is a data point counter to that hypothesis:

South Dakota and North Dakota are highly similar. South Dakota never had a mask mandate while North Dakota did. South Dakota peaked at 2,020 cases per day on 12 NOV. North Dakota peaked at 2,270 cases on 14 NOV. South Dakota even has a 15% larger population than North Dakota. But mask mandates work and masks are as "good as a vaccine" per the CDC?
 
And let's also tag in @almadawg0001 , who got seriously sporty yesterday, threatening to skin his smokewagon and drop a dude at the doctor's office for not wearing a mask. He is at least a man with the power of his convictions... ;)

(Go easy on alma - he was a man and stood in there and took his licks after going high and right).
 
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Wearing a mask will make you sick.
Well Dr. Fauci himself indicated that was a possibility last year before he completely changed his messaging (another thing people get made fun of for pointing out, although when one actually watches what Fauci said and the way he said it, it is pretty amazing he has gotten away with just waving his hand and saying "but I was just trying to protect the mask supply" - pretty sure anyone on the other side who so willfully deceived others, which is his best defense, would be burned at the political stake).
 
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Well Dr. Fauci himself indicated that was a possibility last year before he completely changed his messaging (another thing people get made fun of for pointing out, although when one actually watches what Fauci said and the way he said it, it is pretty amazing he has gotten away with just waving his hand and saying "but I was just trying to protect the mask supply" - pretty sure anyone on the other side who so willfully deceived others, which is his best defense, would be burned at the political stake).
If mask are so important in preventing DEATH, Fauci should be tar and feathered. He initially told us they were not needed and provided little benefit.
 
I would keep the love going here today.

For those who did not see it @MedicalDawg posted (truly) some great information about C19 and heart conditions. Showed what he (and many others, except for the B10) were saying last year that the heart inflammation issue was not a reason to cancel sports.

However, with respect to another Dawg, Medical got political at the end and compared Texas dropping their mask mandate to Alabama putting in Hurts to beat us at the end of the SECC Game.

That was both scientifically unjustified, and a low blow for one Dawg to deliver to another.

I asked in that thread - and ask here again - where is the observational real-world data showing that mask mandates have worked, as Medical Dawg (and several others) in that thread said was the case? We have a year of experience around the world now where we can cast aside models/lab projections and see if mask mandates have worked as mass-population intervention against C19.

Reminder - the CDC said last year masks were as effective - if not more effective - than a vaccine at stopping C19.

Where is the data consistent with that hypothesis?

As a warmup, here is a data point counter to that hypothesis:

South Dakota and North Dakota are highly similar. South Dakota never had a mask mandate while North Dakota did. South Dakota peaked at 2,020 cases per day on 12 NOV. North Dakota peaked at 2,270 cases on 14 NOV. South Dakota even has a 15% larger population than North Dakota. But mask mandates work and masks are as "good as a vaccine" per the CDC?
I'd have to dig it back up but I do know that during the height of the second wave, out of the top 100 counties in infection rates 99 had very strict lockdown and mask mandates.
 
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Since I know quite a bit about respirator efficacy, protocols and design function, it is my suspicion that the cloth/paper mask mandates have made things worse by creating a false sense of security. I would love to see a study actually take all of the factors into consideration and give us a clearer indication of what works and what is the equivalent of a band aid on a gaping chest wound. I'm not sure that is even possible at this point.
 
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I'm inclined to agree with this. My little cloth mask is doing nothing but n95s have to offer some level of protection.

N 95s do offer a little more protection for the wearer but do not filter exhales. However, the protection N 95s provide from a virus is more like someone throwing a hand full of sand thru chicken wire as opposed to a chain link fence and expecting to be protected from getting a face full of sand.
 
My doctor told me that wearing N-95 masks correctly was the best defense other than a vaccine. He also said all other face coverings was doing more harm than good.
There is some truth here. What people don't consider is many of these have an exhalation valve which provides no filtration when exhaling. Also, they are still not dense enough to stop the virus. To have a mask dense enough to stop the virus you would have extreme difficulty breathing and would not be able to wear it for long. Throw in all the new vaccines, therapeutic knowledge and the resulting tiny death rate and all of this makes zero sense. The science doesn't support using masks but none of them can admit it now because it would make them look like the idiots they are.
 
I'd have to dig it back up but I do know that during the height of the second wave, out of the top 100 counties in infection rates 99 had very strict lockdown and mask mandates.


this was a pretty big study that was published then had to be withdrawn

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.20208728v2

Decrease in Hospitalizations for COVID-19 after Mask Mandates in 1083 U.S. Counties
Dhaval Adjodah, Karthik Dinakar, Samuel P. Fraiberger, George W. Rutherford, David V. Glidden, Monica Gandhi

Abstract
Withdrawal The authors have withdrawn this manuscript because there are increased rates of SARS- CoV-2 cases in the areas that we originally analyzed in this study.
 
this was a pretty big study that was published then had to be withdrawn

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.21.20208728v2

Decrease in Hospitalizations for COVID-19 after Mask Mandates in 1083 U.S. Counties
Dhaval Adjodah, Karthik Dinakar, Samuel P. Fraiberger, George W. Rutherford, David V. Glidden, Monica Gandhi

Abstract
Withdrawal The authors have withdrawn this manuscript because there are increased rates of SARS- CoV-2 cases in the areas that we originally analyzed in this study.
7be3bca3-7183-4211-a61d-eb3fe2fd3716_text.gif
 
There is some truth here. What people don't consider is many of these have an exhalation valve which provides no filtration when exhaling. Also, they are still not dense enough to stop the virus. To have a mask dense enough to stop the virus you would have extreme difficulty breathing and would not be able to wear it for long. Throw in all the new vaccines, therapeutic knowledge and the resulting tiny death rate and all of this makes zero sense. The science doesn't support using masks but none of them can admit it now because it would make them look like the idiots they are.
I thought the point of the valve was to reduce the amount of CO2 you are breathing back in. I know I get a headache after wearing a regular one for several hours straight.
 
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