with the strictest gun laws in the country,

[HeulenHund2]

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to Government gambling, but you have been an advocate of health care/single payer....you have taken a big stance on Gun Control as seen here...

I don't recall advocating for single payer, but I've made factual points about the slowing healthcare inflation since Obama Care was implemented. I just point out inaccuracies by others for the most part. I do think single payer makes sense though, so perhaps I did mention it months back, I'm sure I haven't recently, I'd recall.
As for ''gun control'' people thinking being for universal GB checks and accountability measures as ''very liberal'' says more about the sad state of politics than anything else.

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

wouldn't in the previous post, typo, my apologies.

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

You'll have a hard time convincing me of that with Obamacare, my premium more than doubled...my co-pay went down, but i now get pilled over 150 for what used to be a 50 buck copay....and I can truly say i have a great glimpse as my company is small and I bay 100% of my own (which means i can shop for it too) and it has become insane.
As for gun control, if we simply enforced what we have on the books, we'd have a good system. Much like many things in government, they all want new laws for this and that, but they don't enforce anything worth a damn. Like i said though, I'd like to see a legal vs illegal breakdown of homocides.

 

[HeulenHund2]

You'll have a hard time convincing me of that with Obamacare, my premium more than doubled...my co-pay went down, but i now get pilled over 150 for what used to be a 50 buck copay....and I can truly say i have a great glimpse as my company is small and I bay 100% of my own (which means i can shop for it too) and it has become insane.
As for gun control, if we simply enforced what we have on the books, we'd have a good system. Much like many things in government, they all want new laws for this and that, but they don't enforce anything worth a damn. Like i said though, I'd like to see a legal vs illegal breakdown of homocides.

I said healthcare INFLATION is down, way down. It was at it's lowest level since 1961 last year.
Premiums are a different measure, they vary greatly from state to state and area to area. On average they haven't changed much, but deductables are considerably higher for some, while not for others.

 

[HeulenHund2]

You'll have a hard time convincing me of that with Obamacare, my premium more than doubled...my co-pay went down, but i now get pilled over 150 for what used to be a 50 buck copay....and I can truly say i have a great glimpse as my company is small and I bay 100% of my own (which means i can shop for it too) and it has become insane.
As for gun control, if we simply enforced what we have on the books, we'd have a good system. Much like many things in government, they all want new laws for this and that, but they don't enforce anything worth a damn. Like i said though, I'd like to see a legal vs illegal breakdown of homocides.

We don't have universal background checks on the books, that is essential IMO. We also don't have an adequate system for denying those who shouldn't have guns the ability to aquire them in other ways.

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

We have enough background checks on the book, we just don't do anything with it and we do not have any communication, still, between government groups. It has been better since 9/11, but nowhere near adequate. That said, if someone wants a gun, they will get a gun, whether you ban them all or not. If you are willing to terminate someone's life, finding the weapon of your choosing will never be difficult because you have zero moral compass to begin with.

 

[HeulenHund2]

We have enough background checks on the book, we just don't do anything with it and we do not have any communication, still, between government groups. It has been better since 9/11, but nowhere near adequate. That said, if someone wants a gun, they will get a gun, whether you ban them all or not. If you are willing to terminate someone's life, finding the weapon of your choosing will never be difficult because you have zero moral compass to begin with.

We need UNIVERSAL BGCs. That means at gun shows and even private sales. The loopholes make the other checks useless. Criminals know how to get around them. Just find a gun show or read the trade papers.

 

[HeulenHund2]

We need UNIVERSAL BGCs. That means at gun shows and even private sales. The loopholes make the other checks useless. Criminals know how to get around them. Just find a gun show or read the trade papers.

It's good debating You, You've been respectful, which is rare in these parts. I'm going to watch a flick with the better 2/5s, I'll check back later tonight.

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

The problem with saying that the loopholes is a problem, especially with private sales, is two of the largest states in terms of private sales per capita have zero issues with gun violence. You'd have to show, with stats and facts, that gun show purchases and private sales are being used at a high level to commit crimes (mind you, have to take out the illegal sales at those shows and between private parties, as they wouldn't follow with background anyway.)

 

[HeulenHund2]

The problem with saying that the loopholes is a problem, especially with private sales, is two of the largest states in terms of private sales per capita have zero issues with gun violence. You'd have to show, with stats and facts, that gun show purchases and private sales are being used at a high level to commit crimes (mind you, have to take out the illegal sales at those shows and between private parties, as they wouldn't follow with background anyway.)

How could you prove something where records aren't kept ? I'm 100% sure many guns sold at shows end up in the hands of criminals, it seems preposterous to think criminals aren't taking advantage of them. I know The Oklahoma City bombers and other anti government types have use gun shows to move weapons for decades.

Why not just close the holes in the process, what's the down side ?

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

You just said you can't prove something where records aren't kept and then justified doing something because you are 100% sure...that is a dichotomy that doesn't jive at all.

 

[HeulenHund2]

You just said you can't prove something where records aren't kept and then justified doing something because you are 100% sure...that is a dichotomy that doesn't jive at all.

Sure it does, tell me you doubt guns sold without a background check at shows end up being bought by criminals. It's common sense, there isn't the tiniest doubt in my mind it happens, and likely quite a bit.

 

[Fivehade]

How could you prove something where records aren't kept ? I'm 100% sure many guns sold at shows end up in the hands of criminals, it seems preposterous to think criminals aren't taking advantage of them. I know The Oklahoma City bombers and other anti government types have use gun shows to move weapons for decades.

Why not just close the holes in the process, what's the down side ?

Erosion of freedom for the vast majority of buyers at shows. I almost always buy my firearms at these shows, btw, and I very much believe in the freedom I'm exercising .

I'd like a way to root out the bad element without infringing on my freedom or being subjected to needless government snooping into my life

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

Additionally Fiveshade, most guns bought at gun shows DO conduct background checks as they are FFL dealers. This article shows somewhat of the myth that surrounds gun shows.http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/facts-about-gun-shows

 

[jenkinscreekdawg]

You're stuck on The Google thing, If you think that's bad, I've also been known to read BOOKS ! how ignorant is that ?
As for The Constitution. I'm sure the wiser of our founders would have had the good sense to approve of universal background checks and keeping guns out of the hands of dangerously mentally ill people. Even your masters at The NRA agreed on those points till taken over by the gun manufacturers' lobby. Don't let that get in the way of your lame parroting of NRA propaganda though.
If you ever have a thought of your own I'd like to read it.

it's interesting to me , as to how you can believe you know what the founding fathers would have done or would do . as for buying guns, i assume you have bought guns , i can't tell ; because you keep talking about background checks ..............i am also assuming you know most ,if not all states require checks already . as for me having a master , i would much prefer nra as a master as to the one you have , some call him prez .

 

[HeulenHund2]

Sure it does, tell me you doubt guns sold without a background check at shows end up being bought by criminals. It's common sense, there isn't the tiniest doubt in my mind it happens, and likely quite a bit.

Edit. I just did a Quick check Frontline did a cover story titled Hot Guns, Where Criminals get Their Guns. My belief is correct. The ATF say most guns that end up in the hands of criminals are bought at shows and from private dealers. An ATF agent estimated 80 to 85% of the weapons they recover from criminals are bought in this fashion.

 

[Fivehade]

Additionally Fiveshade, most guns bought at gun shows DO conduct background checks as they are FFL dealers. This article shows somewhat of the myth that surrounds gun shows.http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/facts-about-gun-shows

Yeah, that's a pretty good point. Most of the time when I buy at the shows, it's a handgun, and it's usually a newer model from a ffl dealer, so I do get checked. I have sold a few, however, as an individual, in a number of ways, and I shouldn't be subjected to increased scrutiny because of it

As for Helens claim that all, or almost all criminal guns are bought at shows, I really don't buy that. Most people at shows don't buy in large numbers so how are they getting them ?

I do think thugs do go to places where rules are more lax , in order to get weapons , but I don't feel the solution to that is to infringe my rights either ...... There must be a solution here that doesn't involve trampling the constitution

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

That's odd, since the last data they actually pulled from it was a 1997 phone survey. I'll take that ATF agent to the bank on a side bet. While I do bet its private transactions, i would take it a step further and bet it is an illegal private transaction, in that the person selling didn't legally own it anyway, aka the black market. Gangs and the like aren't going through CL to find a guy selling one gun, they are going to a black market dealer for many guns. After all, buying from a widow means the gun is much more traceable in that it is only one removed and she may remember who bought it or at least a description...versus buying a gun that has been bought and sold after being stolen 5 years ago....

 

[jenkinscreekdawg]

Yeah, that's a pretty good point. Most of the time when I buy at the shows, it's a handgun, and it's usually a newer model from a ffl dealer, so I do get checked. I have sold a few, however, as an individual, in a number of ways, and I shouldn't be subjected to increased scrutiny because of it

As for Helens claim that all, or almost all criminal guns are bought at shows, I really don't buy that. Most people at shows don't buy in large numbers so how are they getting them ?

I do think thugs do go to places where rules are more lax , in order to get weapons , but I don't feel the solution to that is to infringe my rights either ...... There must be a solution here that doesn't involve trampling the constitution

i have read that a lot of the gangsta guns are stolen .

 

[jenkinscreekdawg]

Yeah, that's a pretty good point. Most of the time when I buy at the shows, it's a handgun, and it's usually a newer model from a ffl dealer, so I do get checked. I have sold a few, however, as an individual, in a number of ways, and I shouldn't be subjected to increased scrutiny because of it

As for Helens claim that all, or almost all criminal guns are bought at shows, I really don't buy that. Most people at shows don't buy in large numbers so how are they getting them ?

I do think thugs do go to places where rules are more lax , in order to get weapons , but I don't feel the solution to that is to infringe my rights either ...... There must be a solution here that doesn't involve trampling the constitution

this is very complicated.and should be treated that way, we can't let folks that really have no idea of what the difference is between automatic and semiautomatic, or even the difference between a shotgun and a rifle have the last word . if you listen to some of the" la la land " folks you can tell the above apply

 

[HeulenHund2]

Yeah, that's a pretty good point. Most of the time when I buy at the shows, it's a handgun, and it's usually a newer model from a ffl dealer, so I do get checked. I have sold a few, however, as an individual, in a number of ways, and I shouldn't be subjected to increased scrutiny because of it

As for Helens claim that all, or almost all criminal guns are bought at shows, I really don't buy that. Most people at shows don't buy in large numbers so how are they getting them ?

I do think thugs do go to places where rules are more lax , in order to get weapons , but I don't feel the solution to that is to infringe my rights either ...... There must be a solution here that doesn't involve trampling the constitution

Why do you feel a need to overstate what I posted ? The ATF agent estimated that 80 to 85% of the recovered weapons THEY recover from criminals are bought at shows or from private sellers. It seems likely you could have quoted without embellishing. Is it to make your point seem stronger to posters who didn't bother reading my post ?

 

[HeulenHund2]

m

i have read that a lot of the gangsta guns are stolen .

I'm sure they steal quite a bit among themselves. The weapons have to enter their circle from outside originally though.

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

Because there is a difference between a legally sold firearm and illegally, just like there is a difference between FiveShade and I conducting a business transaction of a firearm and a blackmarket dealer selling automatics and other heavily regulated guns in southside Chicago. You have an ATF agent (which as we have seen with the press, could be a field agent or a secretary) making an estimate whereas I've posted an article quoting the DOJ actual stats and how they came up with them (calling less than 300 people.) You could do universal background checks...guess what, nothing would change, absolute nothing. Why, because nobody enforces squat anymore...they just introduce new laws. Laws that most people will abide by, laws which criminals will not...its security theater at its finest.

 

[Fivehade]

Why do you feel a need to overstate what I posted ? The ATF agent estimated that 80 to 85% of the recovered weapons THEY recover from criminals are bought at shows or from private sellers. It seems likely you could have quoted without embellishing. Is it to make your point seem stronger to posters who didn't bother reading my post ?

I didn't embellish. Certainly didn't intend to. In fact, my intention was just to said what you said, only a bit more succinctly. Recommend you relax

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

He's talking to me Fivehade.

 

[Fivehade]

He's talking to me Fivehade.

Well he quoted my post in his embellishment accusation ....which I didn't do ....more 'condensed' imo....certainly not an embellishment

 

[AubreyTXDawg]

Figured he just got confused...i was watching the blacklist from last week, so my comments have been all over....

 

[HeulenHund2]

Well he quoted my post in his embellishment accusation ....which I didn't do ....more 'condensed' imo....certainly not an embellishment

''condensed'' if making a wrong statement is condensing I've misused the word all these years.