Question for those in HR or management of benefits etc,....I haven't had to deal with this in over 15 years. We

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Yeah I keep seeing people post about EEOC claims against me. Number one I am not firing her. Number two I do not have to provide any paid leave if I do not want to do so as a small business in Georgia. I am wanting to be fair as a small business owner to a one year employee and to the other employees who have been here much longer and did not receive the same benefits 30 years ago.

You should do what makes the most sense for your business in the talent marketplace in 2023.

Benefits always change and those changes impact employees differently based on where they are in their career. That is the case now, it was the case 20 years ago, and it’ll be the case 20 years from now.

Pensions used to be common. Most companies don’t offer them anymore. Many companies have some pension employees and some non-pension employees. It can create tension, or concerns about fairness. But, that’s how it goes.

 

[DevilDawg]

I work for a very large, multinational firm. I got 12 weeks paternity when we had our son. Women get 16. They have since changed the policy to give both men and women 16 weeks.

I feel for small businesses with a small staff. I don’t know how they can match that.

 

[plainvanilla]

hired a young lady in Feb of 2022 who quickly got pregnant by her new husband. I am not sure what is the norm when it comes to pregnancy. I understand the FMLA rules but she does not have a short term disability policy for the time she will have to take off. When she gave me the news at the first of year I explained that she will definitely get paid for her 3 weeks of vacation/sick and we may add a fourth week. She has since then missed 3 or 4 days already in 2023 for various reasons (It doesn't really seem to be pregnancy related). We spoke again yesterday and I warned her she is on track to have very few days left when August arrives at this pace. She then proceeds to say she thought she was getting an extra 4 weeks of paid leave on top the already 3 weeks for vacation/sick leave...a total of 7 weeks of paid leave. Is that normal for the millennials and GEN Zs to expect that amount of paid leave for getting pregnant? Are companies really doing that and basically rewarding pregnancies? We are a small business with only 11 employees so I am trying to wrap my head around what is now the norm. I basically told her the older ladies in the office would cut my throat or maybe even my balls off if I gave her that sort of payout during her time off considering what they received in the 80s and 90s when they had children.

methinks you could use HR advice on a number of topics.

 

[CimarroneDawg]

99% of the responses in this thread are not applicable to a Private company with 11 employees. It is comparing apples to oranges. As someone previously mentioned your handbook and what you have a previously done do matter but technically a company your size is not required to offer any parental leave.

 

[RealKosher]

It’s common practice now. The men get that much at my company for paternity leave.

This. I’m eligible for 12 weeks of fully paid paternity. Can be taken in 2 week increments anytime during the first year of birth.

Wife gets 18 weeks with her company

 

[rednblack4life]

You hit the nail on the head...I am almost 44. I remember when I took a trip to Spain and France in 2015 I made the comment to my wife about the number of breaks they take throughout the day and the actual work hours may add up to 4-5 hours a day at most. My first job was at 10 years old helping harvest tobacco and I never stopped working from that point on for the most part. I just couldn't imagine taking paternity leave and leaving my coworkers hanging for an extended period of time. I get anxiety now just missing a few days here and there.

Many studies have been showing productivity increases by working less. Also, are you implying the part I bolded was a good thing? It sounds miserable.

 

[InsureDawg02]

Many studies have been showing productivity increases by working less. Also, are you implying the part I bolded was a good thing? It sounds miserable.

It was a good thing because I was poor and I needed the 20.00 a day I received during the summer. As I got older and stronger I became a racker where I helped pick the rack up and place it in the barn. I am sure you can google it and get an idea of what I am describing. In 94 the farmer stopped growing tobacco and I moved over to his poultry houses. It wasn't fun but it taught me the value of working and showing up. If I didn't show up I didn't get paid. If I didn't show up several times he would have found someone else. My hands are rough with calluses from those days and they both serve as a reminder.

 

[AlchemyDawg186]

Many studies have been showing productivity increases by working less. Also, are you implying the part I bolded was a good thing? It sounds miserable.

Purely anecdotal on my part but my current company offers unlimited PTO and I probably use less than I did at my last company. I always felt obligated to use my 15 days PTO at my last job even if I didn't have a trip planned

 

[DawgGoesWoof]

Purely anecdotal on my part but my current company offers unlimited PTO and I probably use less than I did at my last company. I always felt obligated to use my 15 days PTO at my last job even if I didn't have a trip planned

Unlimited PTO is largely an accounting trick to avoid having to deal with accrued PTO days of CA employees as a liability on the books.

Nearly every evaluation of unlimited PTO plan vs traditional models ends up with employees taking less time off and feeling more guilty when they do.

 

[FivePtsDawg]

Many studies have been showing productivity increases by working less. Also, are you implying the part I bolded was a good thing? It sounds miserable.

Those studies were probably done in Europe, since over there they apparently get a year off for having a baby, plus August off for vacation, plus more breaks during the normal workday than in America. Or at least that's what I've learned ITT.

As for working hard like @InsureDawg02 does and has for most of his life, it probably does sound miserable to a lot of folks, but it's also what built this country into the greatest the world has ever known. There's a reason our relatively young nation left so many in Europe & elsewhere across the globe in the dust, economically and in many other areas. @InsureDawg02 sounds like a small business owner who creates jobs & livelihoods for his employees. His hard work pays off for himself and others. Capitalism is a beautiful thing.

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Those studies were probably done in Europe, since over there they apparently get a year off for having a baby, plus August off for vacation, plus more breaks during the normal workday than in America. Or at least that's what I've learned ITT.

As for working hard like @InsureDawg02 does and has for most of his life, it probably does sound miserable to a lot of folks, but it's also what built this country into the greatest the world has ever known. There's a reason our relatively young nation left so many in Europe & elsewhere across the globe in the dust, economically and in many other areas. @InsureDawg02 sounds like a small business owner who creates jobs & livelihoods for his employees. His hard work pays off for himself and others. Capitalism is a beautiful thing.

Well man I guess that depends on what you want to leave folks in the dust on. If working and productivity and whatever else is your end goal, then you’re right. But Western Europe has capitalism, too, without having to ask questions like “is three weeks after a woman births a human enough leave?”

So yeah, if it’s all about productivity and producing more widgets, sure we left them in the dust. If you’re interested in a work/life balance and a quality of life, we’ve got a lot of work to do here compared to the folks in Western Europe (but we’re getting better!)

Note: this isn’t a shot at OP. He’s gotta do what’s best for his business within the system we have

 

[Dawgsontop9]

I had the exact same experience, down to the number of weeks.

Not surprising though - it’s best practice and a huge employee retention tool.

The last company I worked at implemented a 12-16 week primary caregiver leave program (last four could be flexible PTO over a period of a year with certain conditions) with a 2-4 week for secondary caregivers. Our retention of female employees went through the roof. The most effective part was the flexible four-week aspect of it. Return to work productivity metrics skyrocketed because, although those individuals weren’t in the office as much, they were less likely to let the load of being a new parent bleed into the work. They were happier and we were too.

Beyond just the metrics, it was satisfying watching new parents get time with their kids and truly bond.

For the 20-35 generation, at least 12 weeks is the expectation in white collar settings.

 

[InsureDawg02]

Those studies were probably done in Europe, since over there they apparently get a year off for having a baby, plus August off for vacation, plus more breaks during the normal workday than in America. Or at least that's what I've learned ITT.

As for working hard like @InsureDawg02 does and has for most of his life, it probably does sound miserable to a lot of folks, but it's also what built this country into the greatest the world has ever known. There's a reason our relatively young nation left so many in Europe & elsewhere across the globe in the dust, economically and in many other areas. @InsureDawg02 sounds like a small business owner who creates jobs & livelihoods for his employees. His hard work pays off for himself and others. Capitalism is a beautiful thing.

It is amazing. I can almost guess the age of some of the posters. I can tell some of them have never been part of a really tough labor market yet or have ever really struggled in their life. Hopefully they never have to experience either one.

 

[K_Walt32]

hired a young lady in Feb of 2022 who quickly got pregnant by her new husband. I am not sure what is the norm when it comes to pregnancy. I understand the FMLA rules but she does not have a short term disability policy for the time she will have to take off. When she gave me the news at the first of year I explained that she will definitely get paid for her 3 weeks of vacation/sick and we may add a fourth week. She has since then missed 3 or 4 days already in 2023 for various reasons (It doesn't really seem to be pregnancy related). We spoke again yesterday and I warned her she is on track to have very few days left when August arrives at this pace. She then proceeds to say she thought she was getting an extra 4 weeks of paid leave on top the already 3 weeks for vacation/sick leave...a total of 7 weeks of paid leave. Is that normal for the millennials and GEN Zs to expect that amount of paid leave for getting pregnant? Are companies really doing that and basically rewarding pregnancies? We are a small business with only 11 employees so I am trying to wrap my head around what is now the norm. I basically told her the older ladies in the office would cut my throat or maybe even my balls off if I gave her that sort of payout during her time off considering what they received in the 80s and 90s when they had children.

my brother in law is getting 8 weeks of paternity leave when his wife has the baby in April and a coworker of his got 12 weeks last year and was allowed to take all of her vacation time during that as well if she wanted. So yes, 7 weeks is the expectation and should be the absolute bare minimum a company offers. (8 would be better but that is a different discussion)

 

[wcu1113]

As has been said previously, I’d say her expectation isn’t outrageous. But I do see where you’re coming from, especially given the number of employees.

Our firm gives six months maternity leave and four weeks paternity leave. I realize that’s probably above the norm.

 

[NWGA_DAWG]

I guess the corporate world has its perks as long as you can avoid massive layoffs etc I would lose three employees if I gave a one year employee 12 weeks of paid maternity leave.

A lot of tech bros recently saw the other side of expanded paternity benefits.

 

[InsureDawg02]

A lot of tech bros recently saw the other side of expanded paternity benefits.

Yeah I have a bad feeling if this labor market flips some of these guys will be staring at two Bobs asking them what they really do at inetech.

 

[NWGA_DAWG]

Yeah I have a bad feeling if this labor market flips some of these guys will be staring at two Bobs asking them what they really do at inetech.

Maybe I'm overly paranoid but if I worked at a corp job that could let me leave for 12 weeks, I would be concerned everyday about my job security.

 

[Red8Black]

I’m 31. I would agree with her expectation. 7 weeks would be on the very low end of a corporate job for a woman these days (paternity is different, but still expected for at least 2-3 weeks). In the Fortune 500, I think the absolute minimum expectation is 12 weeks. If you only give her three weeks and take it from her vacation/sick leave, I’d expect you’d be looking for a new employee soon.

When we had our daughter 21 months ago, my wife got 12 weeks. I got 1 day. At that time we worked at the same company. A quite large one at that. Now, in my new company, I get 2 weeks paternity and if my wife worked there (she stays at home with the baby now) she would get 12 weeks with an additional part-time reentry into work for 4 weeks. So they would pay her FT but she would have a shorter more PT schedule. My company is awesome and I don't know how many do the things they do. We have unlimited FTO, but I don't like abusing it. It's great for all my golf tournaments in the summer. 😎

 

[Findawg4]

With the company I work for, The mother can get up to 16 weeks of Maternity leave. 12 weeks is full pay and the last 4 weeks are unpaid, but they can use PTO/sick time if they want to. The father can get up to 3 weeks of paid time off.

 

[GrizzDawg]

I would suggest you do some best practice research for a firm your size.

But yes, big employers are commonly giving new mother AND fathers extended paid leave when they have children.

I don't know where all the info in this thread is coming from, but most companies do not give paid leave. Federal law requires 12 weeks of unpaid leave. A handful of states require some form of paid maternity leave. I don't know how the law affects small companies as they are affected by some employment laws differently - if at all. I worked for two different Fortune 250 companies and neither had paid leave.

I think a lot of people are confusing paid leave with unpaid leave. I would agree that most companies are fairly generous with unpaid leave.

 

[WizDawg]

I don't know where all the info in this thread is coming from, but most companies do not give paid leave. Federal law requires 12 weeks of unpaid leave. A handful of states require some form of paid maternity leave. I don't know how the law affects small companies as they are affected by some employment laws differently - if at all. I worked for two different Fortune 250 companies and neither had paid leave.

I think a lot of people are confusing paid leave with unpaid leave. I would agree that most companies are fairly generous with unpaid leave.

I can only speak to mine. It is 12 weeks paid/full OTE.

 

[Findawg4]

Just finished reading through this thread...Now I understand why my company makes us that HR course on discrimination every year.

 

[RoyDawgMercer]

You have no idea what I have seen cause friction as an owner. I have caused issues by giving out free pens to a couple of employees and not the others because I only had two to give away. Now if we have anything to give away in my office and we do not have enough for everyone I have a drawing where we draw the winner/winners from a hat.

Sounds like you learned a valuable lesson. Friction? Try working in management at a Fortune 500 company with 70k employees some of whom are unionized if you want to see friction. Oh, I didn't say you have to like anything but one should be very careful, too, whenever discussing topic as this with employees. Especially the hormonally challenged as It's so easy to send the wrong message. Your business sounds just large enough for personalities to start entering into play too so all the more reason to have HR policies set to paper so everyone knows where the fences are at all times. You might ask the soon to be mom if she'd consider working from home some to help out. Just a thought.

PS - If I recall correctly there are some business size quantifiers re family leave but have no specifics.

 

[Mark_NCDawg]

hired a young lady in Feb of 2022 who quickly got pregnant by her new husband. I am not sure what is the norm when it comes to pregnancy. I understand the FMLA rules but she does not have a short term disability policy for the time she will have to take off. When she gave me the news at the first of year I explained that she will definitely get paid for her 3 weeks of vacation/sick and we may add a fourth week. She has since then missed 3 or 4 days already in 2023 for various reasons (It doesn't really seem to be pregnancy related). We spoke again yesterday and I warned her she is on track to have very few days left when August arrives at this pace. She then proceeds to say she thought she was getting an extra 4 weeks of paid leave on top the already 3 weeks for vacation/sick leave...a total of 7 weeks of paid leave. Is that normal for the millennials and GEN Zs to expect that amount of paid leave for getting pregnant? Are companies really doing that and basically rewarding pregnancies? We are a small business with only 11 employees so I am trying to wrap my head around what is now the norm. I basically told her the older ladies in the office would cut my throat or maybe even my balls off if I gave her that sort of payout during her time off considering what they received in the 80s and 90s when they had children.

I can’t help you with your current HR question, but you should develop a company handbook to document company policies. There are plenty of templates online to walk you through the process. Once you have a draft, run it passed legal who specializes in labor law. It is worth the small initial investment to communicate company policy and the employee/employer relationship gets less strained.

hired a young lady in Feb of 2022 who quickly got pregnant by her new husband. I am not sure what is the norm when it comes to pregnancy. I understand the FMLA rules but she does not have a short term disability policy for the time she will have to take off. When she gave me the news at the first of year I explained that she will definitely get paid for her 3 weeks of vacation/sick and we may add a fourth week. She has since then missed 3 or 4 days already in 2023 for various reasons (It doesn't really seem to be pregnancy related). We spoke again yesterday and I warned her she is on track to have very few days left when August arrives at this pace. She then proceeds to say she thought she was getting an extra 4 weeks of paid leave on top the already 3 weeks for vacation/sick leave...a total of 7 weeks of paid leave. Is that normal for the millennials and GEN Zs to expect that amount of paid leave for getting pregnant? Are companies really doing that and basically rewarding pregnancies? We are a small business with only 11 employees so I am trying to wrap my head around what is now the norm. I basically told her the older ladies in the office would cut my throat or maybe even my balls off if I gave her that sort of payout during her time off considering what they received in the 80s and 90s when they had children.

specializes in labor laws etc.

 

[GrizzDawg]

I can’t help you with your current HR question, but you should develop a company handbook to document company policies. There are plenty of templates online to walk you through the process. Once you have a draft, run it passed legal who specializes in labor law. It is worth the small initial investment to communicate company policy and the employee/employer relationship gets less strained.


specializes in labor laws etc.

Solid advice.

 

[BeatTech81]

Not anything new, but I know a bit about this as a recently retired executive of a company that dealt with this several times per year. The key with which you must start is your company handbook. If you don’t have one, I don’t care how small your company is, you need to create one, and I’d suggest having your corporate counsel look it over after you’ve completed it WITH an HR professional assisting with that effort. This way YOU get to decide, from this point forward, the amount of paid maternity leave you pay as a company. Just remember, when you’re recruiting candidates, young ladies pay attention to this.

 

[CalienteDawg]

Just finished reading through this thread...Now I understand why my company makes us that HR course on discrimination every year.

Also smart companies cover birth control 110%.

 

[FivePtsDawg]

Well man I guess that depends on what you want to leave folks in the dust on. If working and productivity and whatever else is your end goal, then you’re right. But Western Europe has capitalism, too, without having to ask questions like “is three weeks after a woman births a human enough leave?”

So yeah, if it’s all about productivity and producing more widgets, sure we left them in the dust. If you’re interested in a work/life balance and a quality of life, we’ve got a lot of work to do here compared to the folks in Western Europe (but we’re getting better!)

Note: this isn’t a shot at OP. He’s gotta do what’s best for his business within the system we have

I figured you would be on the European side of this, and honestly my original post was a little bit tongue in cheek. But to your point about work life balance, and I apologize for using the word again, but there can be a balance between the perceived US and European definitions of “work-life balance”. I’m certainly not some 80-hour a week workaholic- you know how much time I waste on this damn site! I rarely have to work on weekends, take vacations, cut out early for kids sports, golf, etc. And I love doing it. But I also think the model employed/enjoyed by many Western European countries might swing a bit too far the other way. To me, it’s somewhere in the middle.

 

[Georgia Jim]

There's a lot to unpack here, but here goes:

Your question can be summed up with what you have to provide vs. what you want to or should provide. From a legal perspective, FMLA does NOT guarantee any paid parental leave, it only guarantees that you are able to keep your job or a job of equal stature. However, FMLA is only required for companies larger than 50 employees AND if the employee has been employed longer than 12 months. It sounds like you're a very small business, so FMLA isn't guaranteed here anyway.
There is no law that says you must provide paid parental leave (maternity/primary caregiver or paternity/secondary caregiver). Sure, a lot of companies offer paid parental leave, and that varies greatly, but nothing is legally required.
Legally, you are allowed to tell her she can only use her PTO. I would be careful with operating under different circumstances for this person vs. other people in your employment as you open yourselves up to discrimination claims if you're offering her something different than what others have received.
For short-term disability, that would kick in with maternity leave, but only if she voluntarily elected it herself, as you've already stated that it's not provided by the company and she doesn't have that policy herself.
My last question for you is, what is stated in your handbook, is there anything specifically stated in regards to Parental Leave? You could always look at the option of having other employees voluntarily give up some of their PTO to this woman, but you'd need to offer that up to everyone going forward and put that into your policy/handbook going forward.
Hope this helps!

This is the correct answer. Policies and Procedures should be written and consistent...If you handle things on a case by case basis you will eventually get sued. Fmla does not guarantee paid leave...only retention of their job and continuation of benefits even if their salary stops. You are below 50 ees so it does not even apply here. Consult a labor attorney.... and adopt written policies asap. All you really owe her is accured sick leave and PTO. How you handle this will set a precedent...

 

[GrizzDawg]

How you handle this will set a precedent...

Exactly, if he doesn't have a handbook yet, his decision on how to handle this case will write that part of the handbook for him.

 

[SLC_Dawg]

It was a good thing because I was poor and I needed the 20.00 a day I received during the summer. As I got older and stronger I became a racker where I helped pick the rack up and place it in the barn. I am sure you can google it and get an idea of what I am describing. In 94 the farmer stopped growing tobacco and I moved over to his poultry houses. It wasn't fun but it taught me the value of working and showing up. If I didn't show up I didn't get paid. If I didn't show up several times he would have found someone else. My hands are rough with calluses from those days and they both serve as a reminder.

My first job was washing dishes at 12. The second was working in my uncles car wash at 14. I guess some of us are born workers that carry the rest of the country. I kid.

In the 80s I remember a co-worker asking a prospective female employee if she was pregnant. Yikes.

to the OP:
That being said, you have to be honest with yourself. Is she worth keeping? I have seen women that started as a secretary end up much higher up in the company. You’re on the hook for this pregnancy whether you want it or not. But I remember one secretary that got pregnant, got a note from her doctor, couldnt work for the rest of her term, had the kid, and got pregnant again soon as she returned to work, got a note from her doctor, couldn't work again, and we fired her. She was the bad exception.

if she’s worth keeping, this is just the start. Be tolerant to her when her kid gets sick, etc. too. You’re either in it together, or your not. Many companies talk about family values this and that, but few of them are in reality. Good luck.