Question for those in HR or management of benefits etc,....I haven't had to deal with this in over 15 years. We

[bwarren10]

hired a young lady in Feb of 2022 who quickly got pregnant by her new husband. I am not sure what is the norm when it comes to pregnancy. I understand the FMLA rules but she does not have a short term disability policy for the time she will have to take off. When she gave me the news at the first of year I explained that she will definitely get paid for her 3 weeks of vacation/sick and we may add a fourth week. She has since then missed 3 or 4 days already in 2023 for various reasons (It doesn't really seem to be pregnancy related). We spoke again yesterday and I warned her she is on track to have very few days left when August arrives at this pace. She then proceeds to say she thought she was getting an extra 4 weeks of paid leave on top the already 3 weeks for vacation/sick leave...a total of 7 weeks of paid leave. Is that normal for the millennials and GEN Zs to expect that amount of paid leave for getting pregnant? Are companies really doing that and basically rewarding pregnancies? We are a small business with only 11 employees so I am trying to wrap my head around what is now the norm. I basically told her the older ladies in the office would cut my throat or maybe even my balls off if I gave her that sort of payout during her time off considering what they received in the 80s and 90s when they had children.

Is she worth a damn? Do you care if she sticks around?

 

[caj209]

I got 8 weeks. Our women get 16.

 

[Dbtdawg]

Yep same here. Got 8 weeks of paternity for my youngest and they changed the policy recently to 12 weeks for both parents

The federal government even passed a law mandating 12 weeks of paid leave (in addition to an already fairly generous number of standard sick leave hours, at least relative to most American private companies) a few years ago for both men and women. Most European countries provide a full year of paid time off, so if anything, the trend of offering more parental leave for parents will only increase (and rightfully so).

 

[AlchemyDawg186]

7 weeks would be the lowest of any company I've worked at post grad. My company offers 16 weeks for the mother and the father to be used within the first year. My previous company offered 12 weeks for both parents. My wife gets 8 weeks from her firm but the city of San Francisco covers an additional 7. If not for the city, her firm would likely cover more

 

[FivePtsDawg]

This isn't about you, OP, but it's just a very interesting issue the difference in these two types of people:

1. I had it hard, so you have to have it hard

2. I had it hard, so I hope that those who follow me don't have it so bad

I get this to an extent, but to me it's not quite that simplistic. And I realize you're not saying these are the only arguments/types of people, you're just comparing two types. For many of us, it also comes down to perceived work ethic and entitlement. There's a wide perception- that I feel is accurate in a lot of ways- that the younger generations feel more entitled to things like extended leave, flexible work schedules, working from home, generous PTO policies from Day 1, etc. than prior generations did. Obviously much more of a focus on work-life balance. And I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, just why some people- especially those of the older generations in the workforce, might have a harder time understanding or falling in line with it.

I'm 45 and as far as my mindset on this goes, I don't consider myself an oulde, but I'm definitely not a Gen Z or the younger ages in the workforce now. One thing that's specifically hard for me to wrap my head around is the extended paternity leave that so many get these days. A lot of that comes from being in sales- if I'm not working, I'm not earning up to my full potential, as my comp is a combo of base plus commission plus bonus. If I took 6 or 8 or 12 weeks off, I'm burning opportunities that might never come back around. I know others aren't in that same boat, so it can be hard to relate sometimes. I also think about if I had a different job- say, in an accounting-type function- and when I went out for an 8-week paternity leave, my coworkers had to pick up my slack. That seems a bit unfair to them (unless they were getting a pay bump to do so, which is unlikely). Plus, if you're gone for an extended period of time, and the company manages to hum right along without you there, they might start saying, "Do we really need this guy here?" Just a few thoughts that run through my head when this topic is brought up.

 

[1988UGAgrad]

hired a young lady in Feb of 2022 who quickly got pregnant by her new husband. I am not sure what is the norm when it comes to pregnancy. I understand the FMLA rules but she does not have a short term disability policy for the time she will have to take off. When she gave me the news at the first of year I explained that she will definitely get paid for her 3 weeks of vacation/sick and we may add a fourth week. She has since then missed 3 or 4 days already in 2023 for various reasons (It doesn't really seem to be pregnancy related). We spoke again yesterday and I warned her she is on track to have very few days left when August arrives at this pace. She then proceeds to say she thought she was getting an extra 4 weeks of paid leave on top the already 3 weeks for vacation/sick leave...a total of 7 weeks of paid leave. Is that normal for the millennials and GEN Zs to expect that amount of paid leave for getting pregnant? Are companies really doing that and basically rewarding pregnancies? We are a small business with only 11 employees so I am trying to wrap my head around what is now the norm. I basically told her the older ladies in the office would cut my throat or maybe even my balls off if I gave her that sort of payout during her time off considering what they received in the 80s and 90s when they had children.

dont hire women??? Too much! I kid I kid...

 

[Bell Ringer]

My wife worked at a smallish law firm (definitely not a huge corporation) when pregnant with our oldest. She got 6 weeks of paid leave on top of any vacation, short term disability was expected to cover the rest. Which she had so we were good.

Part of the problem is most short term disability plans only pay six or eight weeks for pregnancies unless there is a complication.

 

[BaileyDawg79]

I get this to an extent, but to me it's not quite that simplistic. And I realize you're not saying these are the only arguments/types of people, you're just comparing two types. For many of us, it also comes down to perceived work ethic and entitlement. There's a wide perception- that I feel is accurate in a lot of ways- that the younger generations feel more entitled to things like extended leave, flexible work schedules, working from home, generous PTO policies from Day 1, etc. than prior generations did. Obviously much more of a focus on work-life balance. And I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, just why some people- especially those of the older generations in the workforce, might have a harder time understanding or falling in line with it.

I'm 45 and as far as my mindset on this goes, I don't consider myself an oulde, but I'm definitely not a Gen Z or the younger ages in the workforce now. One thing that's specifically hard for me to wrap my head around is the extended paternity leave that so many get these days. A lot of that comes from being in sales- if I'm not working, I'm not earning up to my full potential, as my comp is a combo of base plus commission plus bonus. If I took 6 or 8 or 12 weeks off, I'm burning opportunities that might never come back around. I know others aren't in that same boat, so it can be hard to relate sometimes. I also think about if I had a different job- say, in an accounting-type function- and when I went out for an 8-week paternity leave, my coworkers had to pick up my slack. That seems a bit unfair to them (unless they were getting a pay bump to do so, which is unlikely). Plus, if you're gone for an extended period of time, and the company manages to hum right along without you there, they might start saying, "Do we really need this guy here?" Just a few thoughts that run through my head when this topic is brought up.

From what I have experienced and scene the leave is sometimes broken up, so not a continuous 8 or 12 week period. And for people on the teams that I have managed that have gone out for extended periods for paternity or maternity leave we brought in a temp resource to cover their work.

Obviously varies from person to person and company to company but I do think it is important for parents to be home with their newborns. It is a special bonding time that you can't ever get back once it is gone.

 

[broadstreet11]

She is making up the time missed by working some Saturdays etc for a few hours and her paycheck continued during the time she was in recovery. I think all of them know we will take care of them if something unexpected occurs.

Requiring a longtime employee to come in on Saturday to make up time when she had surgery is not the boss-of-the-year move you think it is.

 

[AgrayDAWG]

7 should be the absolute minimum and not even something that needs to considered. That's just 101. Most places give 12 weeks now.

With that being said, I don't think I've had a peer return from the maternity leave and continue working for the same company. Most leave or find a new role once they return. So chances of you keeping her are slim to none anyway.

 

[Devil_Dawg]

Yep, that's why the 6 weeks of leave existed. It would cover enough to make up for what short term didn't cover.

Part of the problem is most short term disability plans only pay six or eight weeks for pregnancies unless there is a complication.

 

[Dawgalways]

A lot of companies are doing up to 12 weeks

And a lot of companies are doing none paid other than use your already available PTO (including where I work). There is no standard.

 

[AlchemyDawg186]

With that being said, I don't think I've had a peer return from the maternity leave and continue working for the same company. Most leave or find a new role once they return. So chances of you keeping her are slim to none anyway.

My experience is the exact opposite. I've never seen someone leave after returning

 

[Dawgalways]

4 months of paid leave? That almost seems unreal. I am going to likely have to hire a temp as well for the 12 weeks she will be gone if she takes it all. A small businessowner would be better off hiring 40 plus year old women to avoid the issue.

There are some Europe domiciles that provide up to a full year paid leave for the new mother.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

And a lot of companies are doing none paid other than use your already available PTO (including where I work). There is no standard.

There are best practices. And most large companies see this as a very important part of attracting and retaining talent and n a very tight labor market.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

My experience is the exact opposite. I've never seen someone leave after returning

Me either. That’s why obviously a case by case situation.

 

[AgrayDAWG]

My experience is the exact opposite. I've never seen someone leave after returning

In tech, it's the kiss of death on people's tenures, and they're not forced out. Unless they're a department head or on the dev side, they're gone. 1 of our top performers is trying to start a family and we've all accepted the clock is ticking on their tenure with us. Not specific to this company either. I think it's more generational honestly.

 

[AlchemyDawg186]

In tech, it's the kiss of death on people's tenures, and they're not forced out. Unless they're a department head or on the dev side, they're gone. 1 of our top performers is trying to start a family and we've all accepted the clock is ticking on their tenure with us. Not specific to this company either. I think it's more generational honestly.

I've worked in tech for 10+ years and never seen it happen.

 

[AgrayDAWG]

I've worked in tech for 10+ years and never seen it happen.

I can think of 15 off the top of my head right now, with 1 guy that came back. Depends on what side of the house they're working in. Front of house has a much more shorter shelf life and people come and go much more freely.

 

[BaileyDawg79]

And a lot of companies are doing none paid other than use your already available PTO (including where I work). There is no standard.

That sucks. I haven't seen a company doing none other than PTO, but I am sure they are out there.

 

[riserrr]

I can think of 15 off the top of my head right now, with 1 guy that came back. Depends on what side of the house they're working in. Front of house has a much more shorter shelf life and people come and go much more freely.

It's company dependent, I think. For some companies, either because of culture or work style or client/customer demands, it is just not tenable to be a parent with a young child - especially if you live in an area without affordable daycare and/or aren't close to other family who can help you out. On the other hand, there are also companies that take the long-term view with their employees and offer more flexibility for folks in those years immediately following parental leave, with the rationale that it's better to retain good people, even in a slightly diminished capacity for a few years, than lower/change hiring standards based on who is or isn't likely to have a kid.

 

[InsureDawg02]

I get this to an extent, but to me it's not quite that simplistic. And I realize you're not saying these are the only arguments/types of people, you're just comparing two types. For many of us, it also comes down to perceived work ethic and entitlement. There's a wide perception- that I feel is accurate in a lot of ways- that the younger generations feel more entitled to things like extended leave, flexible work schedules, working from home, generous PTO policies from Day 1, etc. than prior generations did. Obviously much more of a focus on work-life balance. And I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing, just why some people- especially those of the older generations in the workforce, might have a harder time understanding or falling in line with it.

I'm 45 and as far as my mindset on this goes, I don't consider myself an oulde, but I'm definitely not a Gen Z or the younger ages in the workforce now. One thing that's specifically hard for me to wrap my head around is the extended paternity leave that so many get these days. A lot of that comes from being in sales- if I'm not working, I'm not earning up to my full potential, as my comp is a combo of base plus commission plus bonus. If I took 6 or 8 or 12 weeks off, I'm burning opportunities that might never come back around. I know others aren't in that same boat, so it can be hard to relate sometimes. I also think about if I had a different job- say, in an accounting-type function- and when I went out for an 8-week paternity leave, my coworkers had to pick up my slack. That seems a bit unfair to them (unless they were getting a pay bump to do so, which is unlikely). Plus, if you're gone for an extended period of time, and the company manages to hum right along without you there, they might start saying, "Do we really need this guy here?" Just a few thoughts that run through my head when this topic is brought up.

You hit the nail on the head...I am almost 44. I remember when I took a trip to Spain and France in 2015 I made the comment to my wife about the number of breaks they take throughout the day and the actual work hours may add up to 4-5 hours a day at most. My first job was at 10 years old helping harvest tobacco and I never stopped working from that point on for the most part. I just couldn't imagine taking paternity leave and leaving my coworkers hanging for an extended period of time. I get anxiety now just missing a few days here and there.

 

[Dawgalways]

Most of the paid/unpaid leave questions have already been answered, so I’ll add this. Do not fire her for anything short of her committing an actual crime. She can file an EEOC complaint and you will lose.

A lot of speculation here. Unless there are bad facts, the EEOC usually issues a right to sue letter and does not take on a claim itself. Then it is up the the person to decide whether or not to sue in civil court. I have dealt with dozens of EEOC complaints. Not once have any EEOC charges resulted. There ae plenty of bona fide reasons to terminate someone that have no relation to criminal activity.

 

[InsureDawg02]

Requiring a longtime employee to come in on Saturday to make up time when she had surgery is not the boss-of-the-year move you think it is.

That was her idea and that is likely the difference between you and her. She has a degree of work ethic and it sounds like from your posts you have very little.

 

[Dawgalways]

There are best practices. And most large companies see this as a very important part of attracting and retaining talent and n a very tight labor market.

I am not disagreeing that there are emerging best practices, only stating that paid maternity leave is by no means universal. There is a new mother in our office (second child) who is a type A workaholic. She took almost no time off after giving birth because we have NO paid maternity leave and she does not want to use PTO otherwise available to her.

 

[Dawgalways]

That sucks. I haven't seen a company doing none other than PTO, but I am sure they are out there.

I work for one of those companies. We have very generous PTO, but none specific to child birth.

 

[gurleyman91]

looks like i'm a bit late to this thread but i know my company gives 12 weeks to both. and more so, not sure if this is uncommon, but we're allowed to break up that 12 weeks time. meaning, we can take 8 weeks off initially, then take the other 4 weeks off sporadically as long as they're used within the first year of the child's birth.

 

[LrgK9]

The country has changed in a short period of time. If I can get through another 5-10 years I hope to be hanging it up anyway. HR nightmares like the one you mention and the new aged employee's expectations and drive are another reason my main stock investments these days are in robotics and AI companies.

Add defense and you have the trifecta

 

[claydawg99]

hired a young lady in Feb of 2022 who quickly got pregnant by her new husband. I am not sure what is the norm when it comes to pregnancy. I understand the FMLA rules but she does not have a short term disability policy for the time she will have to take off. When she gave me the news at the first of year I explained that she will definitely get paid for her 3 weeks of vacation/sick and we may add a fourth week. She has since then missed 3 or 4 days already in 2023 for various reasons (It doesn't really seem to be pregnancy related). We spoke again yesterday and I warned her she is on track to have very few days left when August arrives at this pace. She then proceeds to say she thought she was getting an extra 4 weeks of paid leave on top the already 3 weeks for vacation/sick leave...a total of 7 weeks of paid leave. Is that normal for the millennials and GEN Zs to expect that amount of paid leave for getting pregnant? Are companies really doing that and basically rewarding pregnancies? We are a small business with only 11 employees so I am trying to wrap my head around what is now the norm. I basically told her the older ladies in the office would cut my throat or maybe even my balls off if I gave her that sort of payout during her time off considering what they received in the 80s and 90s when they had children.

12 weeks of paid maternity leave is normal.

Don’t piss her off or she will file for FMLA which would give her an extra 3-6 moths paid leave and make her Unfireable .

Employees have all the leverage now when it comes to employment and it’s very hard to fire anyone now without just cause.

 

[DisplayDawg]

I got 6 weeks of paternity leave on top of my time off. But I also work for a much larger company than your small business. But I don’t think it’s unreasonable what she’s asking for.

 

[AgrayDAWG]

It's company dependent, I think. For some companies, either because of culture or work style or client/customer demands, it is just not tenable to be a parent with a young child - especially if you live in an area without affordable daycare and/or aren't close to other family who can help you out. On the other hand, there are also companies that take the long-term view with their employees and offer more flexibility for folks in those years immediately following parental leave, with the rationale that it's better to retain good people, even in a slightly diminished capacity for a few years, than lower/change hiring standards based on who is or isn't likely to have a kid.

100% and it depends on how integrated you are in the culture of the company, do you see yourself there long term, etc. My generation seems to subscribe to the mercenary style of career where you hop around in 2-4 year increments. You have conquerors and you have nurturers, the start-up world is littered with conquerors and it's all about what can you do for me and my resume. Loyalty is a foreign concept to most. Candidly, most of the ones who've left are in a role that can easily be filled or found elsewhere in their case. Sounds like what OP is up against here.

 

[DawgGoesWoof]

Having read this thread in it’s entirety, I’d like to offer the OP some advance Ts&Ps for their upcoming EEOC lawsuit loss

 

[jbpayne32]

You hit the nail on the head...I am almost 44. I remember when I took a trip to Spain and France in 2015 I made the comment to my wife about the number of breaks they take throughout the day and the actual work hours may add up to 4-5 hours a day at most. My first job was at 10 years old helping harvest tobacco and I never stopped working from that point on for the most part. I just couldn't imagine taking paternity leave and leaving my coworkers hanging for an extended period of time. I get anxiety now just missing a few days here and there.

Now imagine the anxiety of a new mother trying to breastfeed her child while working 40 hours a week after only spending 7 weeks with their child and also having to pay a nanny to watch their child because they can't go to daycare yet...give her 12 weeks paid

 

[RoyDawgMercer]

I guess the corporate world has its perks as long as you can avoid massive layoffs etc I would lose three employees if I gave a one year employee 12 weeks of paid maternity leave.

Why would someone leave? You just demonstrated you’re a great and caring boss.

 

[ARealMunson]

No legal advise but: If you think this is going to be a valuable employee moving forward, I would give to her. As you know, great help is tough to find and also bad "pr" within company could be bad.. Then Id define my compnay policies rolling forward.

This is way too sane for the studvent.

 

[FivePtsDawg]

From what I have experienced and scene the leave is sometimes broken up, so not a continuous 8 or 12 week period. And for people on the teams that I have managed that have gone out for extended periods for paternity or maternity leave we brought in a temp resource to cover their work.

Obviously varies from person to person and company to company but I do think it is important for parents to be home with their newborns. It is a special bonding time that you can't ever get back once it is gone.

The breaking up of the 6/8/12 weeks makes more sense, but still, I feel like it would become an excuse as much as anything. "Oh, I haven't used all of my 12 weeks? I'm going to take another week off 10 months after the kid was born to "bond with him" (at the beach)."

Look, I'm not trying to diminish "bonding with newborns", but I've got 2 kids that are now 18 & almost 16. I took a few days off when each of them were born, then was back into the office the next week. I probably wouldn't have complained about another week or two, but knowing what newborns are actually like- sleeping, eating, or pooping 80% of the time, and the other 20% they're kind of just sitting/laying there- I question whether you're actually "bonding" or just sitting around watching Netflix with your wife and going to hit golf balls during nap time. I guess if you took some of that time later in the first year, when the kids actually start to do something, it could be more valuable. Hell, I'd argue kids' teenage years, before they head off to college & the world beyond, are more valuable "bonding times" than when they're a newborn & aren't doing anything & won't remember anything. Maybe I could get some "delayed paternity leave" right now!

Again, one man's opinion, and I'm sure there's a whole cohort of (primarily younger) Venters that will disagree.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

The breaking up of the 6/8/12 weeks makes more sense, but still, I feel like it would become an excuse as much as anything. "Oh, I haven't used all of my 12 weeks? I'm going to take another week off 10 months after the kid was born to "bond with him" (at the beach)."

Look, I'm not trying to diminish "bonding with newborns", but I've got 2 kids that are now 18 & almost 16. I took a few days off when each of them were born, then was back into the office the next week. I probably wouldn't have complained about another week or two, but knowing what newborns are actually like- sleeping, eating, or pooping 80% of the time, and the other 20% they're kind of just sitting/laying there- I question whether you're actually "bonding" or just sitting around watching Netflix with your wife and going to hit golf balls during nap time. I guess if you took some of that time later in the first year, when the kids actually start to do something, it could be more valuable. Hell, I'd argue kids' teenage years, before they head off to college & the world beyond, are more valuable "bonding times" than when they're a newborn & aren't doing anything & won't remember anything. Maybe I could get some "delayed paternity leave" right now!

Again, one man's opinion, and I'm sure there's a whole cohort of (primarily younger) Venters that will disagree.

This is also not in line with the science of newborn bonding, but it doesn’t really matter.

You do sometimes see generations view this differently, although not quite to the extent you’ve suggested.

But it is increasingly common (has been common in Europe) and many companies see it as an important attraction and retention tool for talent.

 

[WizDawg]

In tech, it's the kiss of death on people's tenures, and they're not forced out. Unless they're a department head or on the dev side, they're gone. 1 of our top performers is trying to start a family and we've all accepted the clock is ticking on their tenure with us. Not specific to this company either. I think it's more generational honestly.

Maybe at your company but not at mine. Like I said earlier in the thread, I work for a very large software company. I took 4 weeks bc that is all my family needed, but I have seen women and men take the full 12 weeks and come back right into their role they had before. I am not talking about just 1 either, multiples in Sales and Engineering from the rep level to management.

 

[InsureDawg02]

A lot of speculation here. Unless there are bad facts, the EEOC usually issues a right to sue letter and does not take on a claim itself. Then it is up the the person to decide whether or not to sue in civil court. I have dealt with dozens of EEOC complaints. Not once have any EEOC charges resulted. There ae plenty of bona fide reasons to terminate someone that have no relation to criminal activity.

Yeah I keep seeing people post about EEOC claims against me. Number one I am not firing her. Number two I do not have to provide any paid leave if I do not want to do so as a small business in Georgia. I am wanting to be fair as a small business owner to a one year employee and to the other employees who have been here much longer and did not receive the same benefits 30 years ago.

 

[InsureDawg02]

Why would someone leave? You just demonstrated you’re a great and caring boss.

You have no idea what I have seen cause friction as an owner. I have caused issues by giving out free pens to a couple of employees and not the others because I only had two to give away. Now if we have anything to give away in my office and we do not have enough for everyone I have a drawing where we draw the winner/winners from a hat.