Sadly this once great republic is inching closer to hell everyday (Wash St)

[TheOriginalSoCalDawg]

Washington just passed a bill in its house chamber allowing minors to start transitioning without parent consent. The even more disturbing part is the bill allows the state to hide minors from other states to do the same. It’s literally legalizing kidnapping and dismemberment of children. Imagine your 13 year old daughter having her breasts removed and coming home after being missing a few weeks? This stuff is bubbling up at the speed of light. A powder keg is building folks…..and those that know me here will tell you I’m not exactly an alarmist.

Washington bill allowing government to ‘hide your kid from you’ clears House

The Washington House has passed Senate Bill 5599 allowing youth shelters to keep runaway minors from their parents if seeking protected health care services for abortion or gender surgeries, without n

www.clarkcountytoday.com

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Washington just passed a bill in its house chamber allowing minors to start transitioning without parent consent. The even more disturbing part is the bill allows the state to hide minors from other states to do the same. It’s literally legalizing kidnapping and dismemberment of children. Imagine your 13 year old daughter having her breasts removed and coming home after being missing a few weeks? This stuff is bubbling up at the speed of light. A powder keg is building folks…..and those that know me here will tell you I, not exactly an alarmist.

Washington bill allowing government to ‘hide your kid from you’ clears House

The Washington House has passed Senate Bill 5599 allowing youth shelters to keep runaway minors from their parents if seeking protected health care services for abortion or gender surgeries, without n

www.clarkcountytoday.com

Such a stupid hill to die on. How even the most liberal “inclusive” folks can’t see the insanity and lack of common sense associated with this stuff and the dudes playing girls in sports is pretty alarming. Pretty sure the biggest side effect of Covid was unlocking a crazy gene in a huge portion of the population.

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

Washington just passed a bill in its house chamber allowing minors to start transitioning without parent consent. The even more disturbing part is the bill allows the state to hide minors from other states to do the same. It’s literally legalizing kidnapping and dismemberment of children. Imagine your 13 year old daughter having her breasts removed and coming home after being missing a few weeks? This stuff is bubbling up at the speed of light. A powder keg is building folks…..and those that know me here will tell you I, not exactly an alarmist.

Washington bill allowing government to ‘hide your kid from you’ clears House

The Washington House has passed Senate Bill 5599 allowing youth shelters to keep runaway minors from their parents if seeking protected health care services for abortion or gender surgeries, without n

www.clarkcountytoday.com

But I was told it's the right making this a political issue.

 

[Eastmandawg]

Such a stupid hill to die on. How even the most liberal “inclusive” folks can’t see the insanity and lack of common sense associated with this stuff and the dudes playing girls in sports is pretty alarming. Pretty sure the biggest side effect of Covid was unlocking a crazy gene in a huge portion of the population.

Would like to see the argument for those that support this……..hopefully, we have some on here that can straighten me out so that I can see the light.

Help a brother out, y’all step out…..I know you gotta be out there somewhere.

 

[TheOriginalSoCalDawg]

Would like to see the argument for those that support this……..hopefully, we have some on here that can straighten me out so that I can see the light.

Help a brother out, y’all step out…..I know you gotta be out there somewhere.

@willdup @nice marmot

 

[nice marmot]

@willdup @nice marmot

I am not sure why you would @ me here unless you want me to tell you that - shocker - your RW media has misled you! (The article is again by the RW bill mill ALEC's "news" desk.)

Here is the text of the bill : https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bien...ed Legislature/5599-S.PL.pdf?q=20230422101525

It's about housing kids who've been kicked out, and the bill requires notification of family, cops, or state agency to help reunify.

Here is other context: https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/fact-focus-posts-distort-washington-estranged-minors-law.

Toughen up. Go play golf or grill something.

 

[nice marmot]

But I was told it's the right making this a political issue.

yes. that is exactly what is happening. This OPs article was written to scare you.

 

[atlanta cock#]

yes. that is exactly what is happening. This OPs article was written to scare you.

So, is the article false?

 

[nice marmot]

So, is the article false?

appears to be - read the text of the bill for yourself if you care to. If there are "compelling reasons" not to report to parents, the situation must be reported to Department of Children Youth and Families

and:

"When the department receives a report under subsection (1) of this section for a minor who is seeking or receiving protected health care services, it shall: (i) Offer to make referrals on behalf of the minor for appropriate behavioral health services; and (ii) Offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family."

I have a LGBTQ+ cousin in Seattle who is a counselor, so I am interested, but I am not spending any time convincing anyone of anything in this matter because I can't be other than sympathetic here. I'm no expert.

 

[WGrovedawg]

I am not sure why you would @ me here unless you want me to tell you that - shocker - your RW media has misled you! (The article is again by the RW bill mill ALEC's "news" desk.)

Here is the text of the bill : https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2023-24/Pdf/Bills/Senate Passed Legislature/5599-S.PL.pdf?q=20230422101525

It's about housing kids who've been kicked out, and the bill requires notification of family, cops, or state agency to help reunify.

Here is other context: https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/fact-focus-posts-distort-washington-estranged-minors-law.

Toughen up. Go play golf or grill something.

It says in the bill unless a shelter has compelling reasons not to notify the parents they must notify the department, compelling defined as a child will be subject to abuse or is receiving gender affirming care

 

[WGrovedawg]

I am not sure why you would @ me here unless you want me to tell you that - shocker - your RW media has misled you! (The article is again by the RW bill mill ALEC's "news" desk.)

Here is the text of the bill : https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2023-24/Pdf/Bills/Senate Passed Legislature/5599-S.PL.pdf?q=20230422101525

It's about housing kids who've been kicked out, and the bill requires notification of family, cops, or state agency to help reunify.

Here is other context: https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/fact-focus-posts-distort-washington-estranged-minors-law.

Toughen up. Go play golf or grill something.

It says in the bill unless a department has compelling reasons not to, compelling defined as a child will be subject to abuse or is receiving gender affirming care

 

[nice marmot]

It says in the bill unless a shelter has compelling reasons not to notify the parents they must notify the department, compelling defined as a child will be subject to abuse or is receiving gender affirming care

yes. in which case, instead of contacting the parents, the "service" must contact DCYF who will, according to page 3, lines 15 - 19

"When the department receives a report under subsection (1) of this section for a minor who is seeking or receiving protected health care services, it shall: (i) Offer to make referrals on behalf of the minor for appropriate behavioral health services; and (ii) Offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family."

 

[WGrovedawg]

yes. in which case, instead of contacting the parents, the "service" must contact DCYF who will, according to page 3, lines 15 - 19

"When the department receives a report under subsection (1) of this section for a minor who is seeking or receiving protected health care services, it shall: (i) Offer to make referrals on behalf of the minor for appropriate behavioral health services; and (ii) Offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family."

But will they tell you what shelter your kid is at or just tell you they have them? Can you go get your kid?

 

[nice marmot]

But will they tell you what shelter your kid is at or just tell you they have them? Can you go get your kid?

I have no idea what washington state's rules about all that are or what their DCYF is like, but the point seems to be "resolve the conflict and accomplish reunification of the family" as stated in the bill. at least as far as I can tell. maybe you read something different there.

 

[TheOriginalSoCalDawg]

I have no idea what washington state's rules about all that are or what their DCYF is like, but the point seems to be "resolve the conflict and accomplish reunification of the family" as stated in the bill. at least as far as I can tell. maybe you read something different there.

@nice marmot here is an excerpt from the Seattle Times:

“Right now, youth shelters are required to notify parents within 72 hours of a child coming into their care. There are exceptions for when a parent is abusing or neglecting a child.

Senate Bill 5599 would add two more reasons a shelter wouldn’t have to notify a parent: if the child was seeking gender-affirming care, or if the child was seeking reproductive health care. The Legislature passed the bill and Gov. Jay Inslee is expected to sign it into law.”

WA bill focused on trans youth sparks dueling protests

Lawmakers voted to allow youth shelters to refrain from contacting parents of a child who seeks gender-affirming care.

www.seattletimes.com

And thanks for the advice on my daily activities today. I’m pretty good on a grill and currently am a 2.7 index. Gotta work to get down to a scratch again. Hit me up if your ever in Scottsdale and we can tee it up.

 

[nice marmot]

@nice marmot here is an excerpt from the Seattle Times:

“Right now, youth shelters are required to notify parents within 72 hours of a child coming into their care. There are exceptions for when a parent is abusing or neglecting a child.

word. the legislature's actions seem appropriate to me, given the current climate. see above re: what happens during those exceptions (report to DCYF and etc)

i.e. the article is pretty inflammatory, imho, relative to the actual text of the bill.

now I am going to get back to my honey-dos

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

word. the legislature's actions seem appropriate to me, given the current climate. see above re: what happens during those exceptions (report to DCYF and etc)

i.e. the article is pretty inflammatory, imho, relative to the actual text of the bill.

now I am going to get back to my honey-dos

Nothing like further weaponizing DFACS against families by adding "gender affirming care" to the list.

Seems to support my previous statement about the lunacy of pushing hormone therapy and surgical activities on minors and now without parental involvement.

 

[MassachusettsDawg]

word. the legislature's actions seem appropriate to me, given the current climate. see above re: what happens during those exceptions (report to DCYF and etc)

i.e. the article is pretty inflammatory, imho, relative to the actual text of the bill.

now I am going to get back to my honey-dos

So in other words, you've shifted your argument from "this is a right-wing lie" to "actually, it's correct, but I support it given the current climate".

 

[nice marmot]

So in other words, you've shifted your argument from "this is a right-wing lie" to "actually, it's correct, but I support it given the current climate".

huh?

try to follow along the discussion. no one is hiding kids... and the sky is not falling, chicken little.

 

[nice marmot]

Nothing like further weaponizing DFACS against families by adding "gender affirming care" to the list.

Seems to support my previous statement about the lunacy of pushing hormone therapy and surgical activities on minors and now without parental involvement.

again - the text of the bill says that services/homes have to report if they can't to the parents for "compelling reasons" to the DCAF, which then refers to behavioral health and attempts to reunify.

seems like they are including more use cases for services already provided.

it literally doesn't say they are pushing anything on anyone.

 

[MassachusettsDawg]

huh?

try to follow along the discussion. no one is hiding kids... and the sky is not falling, chicken little.

I have, and you've openly contradicted yourself in this thread.

If you support these openly leftist actions - which you clearly do - there's no need to hide behind the "it's a right wing lie" argument.

The comment I replied to was far more accurate to your true feelings, which is no surprise.

 

[nice marmot]

I have, and you've openly contradicted yourself in this thread.

I have not.

The OP @'d me. I pointed out how the inflammatory language of the article shared was not supported by the text of the bill.

I said that the text of the bill, as opposed to the RW version of what it means, makes sense to me. In doing so, I offered to entertain other readings from the text of the bill, of which none were offered.

those are not contradictory stances.

Also - and this is my true feeling on it - I find the RW obsession with this issue to be the weirdest part of it all.

 

[Zonadog]

yes. in which case, instead of contacting the parents, the "service" must contact DCYF who will, according to page 3, lines 15 - 19

"When the department receives a report under subsection (1) of this section for a minor who is seeking or receiving protected health care services, it shall: (i) Offer to make referrals on behalf of the minor for appropriate behavioral health services; and (ii) Offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family."

Page 3, lines 1-10 talk about the "Compelling reasons" under which the department or the facility would NOT have to notify parents that a facility in Washington has a child.

(c) "Compelling reasons" include, but are not limited to:
(i) Circumstances that indicate that notifying the parent or legal guardian will subject the minor to abuse or neglect as defined in RCW 26.44.020; or
(ii) When a minor is seeking or receiving protected health care services.
(d) "Protected health care services" means gender affirming treatment as defined in RCW 74.09.675 and reproductive health care services as defined in RCW 74.09.875.

The treatment and services are defined in Washington law (RCW's) to include gender reassignment surgeries and abortions.

 

[nice marmot]

Page 3, lines 1-10 talk about the "Compelling reasons" under which the department or the facility would NOT have to notify parents that a facility in Washington has a child.

(c) "Compelling reasons" include, but are not limited to:
(i) Circumstances that indicate that notifying the parent or legal guardian will subject the minor to abuse or neglect as defined in RCW 26.44.020; or
(ii) When a minor is seeking or receiving protected health care services.
(d) "Protected health care services" means gender affirming treatment as defined in RCW 74.09.675 and reproductive health care services as defined in RCW 74.09.875.

The treatment and services are defined in Washington law (RCW's) to include gender reassignment surgeries and abortions.

As I read it, that subsection refers above to Sec. 2, 1 to any "licensed overnight youth shelter, or another licensed organization with a stated mission to provide services to homeless or runaway youth and their families."

Below the section you cite, Sec. 2, 3 as I have cited above tells us what the "Department" is supposed to do.

Again, I am happy to be shown where I am wrong and the article is right.

 

[willdup]

@willdup @nice marmot

I’ll defer to @nice marmot on the reading of the actual bill. Of course, we know this is the latest dog whistle designed to stir up Team Red and get the indignation flowing.

So I’ll pose a question back to you. How do you feel about the growing list of states banning all gander affirming care before 18, regardless of medical or parental input, despite the fact that all of the following medical associations support that care when following the appropriate process? Who are the relevant major medical associations who support taking that decision out of the hands of the relevant doctors, parents and the patient themselves?

• American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
• American Academy of Dermatology
• American Academy of Family Physicians
• American Academy of Nursing
• American Academy of Pediatrics
• American Academy of Physician Assistants
• American College Health Association
• American College of Nurse-Midwives
• American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
• American College of Physicians
• American Counseling Association
• American Heart Association
• American Medical Association
• American Nurses Association
• American Osteopathic Association
• American Psychiatric Association
• American Psychological Association
• American Public Health Associationhttps://transhealthproject.org/reso...american-society-plastic-surgeons-statements/
• Endocrine Society
• Federation of Pediatric Organizations
• GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality
• National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health
• National Association of Social Workershttps://transhealthproject.org/reso...mmission-correctional-health-care-statements/
• Pediatric Endocrine Society
• Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine
• World Medical Association

 

[TheOriginalSoCalDawg]

I’ll defer to @nice marmot on the reading of the actual bill. Of course, we know this is the latest dog whistle designed to stir up Team Red and get the indignation flowing.

So I’ll pose a question back to you. How do you feel about the growing list of states banning all gander affirming care before 18, regardless of medical or parental input, despite the fact that all of the following medical associations support that care when following the appropriate process? Who are the relevant major medical associations who support taking that decision out of the hands of the relevant doctors, parents and the patient themselves?

• American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
• American Academy of Dermatology
• American Academy of Family Physicians
• American Academy of Nursing
• American Academy of Pediatrics
• American Academy of Physician Assistants
• American College Health Association
• American College of Nurse-Midwives
• American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
• American College of Physicians
• American Counseling Association
• American Heart Association
• American Medical Association
• American Nurses Association
• American Osteopathic Association
• American Psychiatric Association
• American Psychological Association
• American Public Health Associationhttps://transhealthproject.org/reso...american-society-plastic-surgeons-statements/
• Endocrine Society
• Federation of Pediatric Organizations
• GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality
• National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health
• National Association of Social Workershttps://transhealthproject.org/reso...mmission-correctional-health-care-statements/
• Pediatric Endocrine Society
• Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine
• World Medical Association

Nice deferral lol. You are attempting to change the subject with a question. A little on my view that relates to the Washington St. bill in which I started this thread. I am vehemently opposed to any government agency, school, etc. convincing a minor without the consent of a parent or legal guardian to literally make a life altering change to themselves. Sex changes have been around for years, but the practice mentioned in the article is literally kidnapping as it relates to detaining a minor without the consent or knowledge of the parent or guardian. On top of detainment the practice of genital mutilation and hormone treatments are pretty life altering wouldn’t you say? Maybe therapy programs and counseling while keeping parents in the loop. Ever heard of that? Imagine having that done to your child before exhausting other avenues? Damn what a hill the leftists have chosen to die on. As bad as the Transgender situation in women’s sports is, this is 1000 times worse.

@willdup I tagged you and the other person in the original post as you two seem to be pretty passionate leftists in my limited experience in the Chat forum. If you want to start another thread with the basis of what you mentioned then be my guest. I’ll be happy to respond, but I’m not helping to hijack the thread that I started.

 

[nice marmot]

Maybe therapy programs and counseling while keeping parents in the loop.

Can you point to me in the bill where it does what you say it does: coerce or promote any of the above practices? which I agree is not the state's role.

I don't see detainment here, 1, and, 2, I don't see promotion or "convincing" of said practices.

In fact, I see what you suggest in the bill, which is: "(i) Offer to make referrals on behalf of the minor for appropriate behavioral health services"

with the only other obligation of the state being "(ii) Offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family."

I think therapy is super important, totally agree, especially in complex issues of identity like this, but I think the section I quote above explicitly states that the state to "shall" offer to provide that, whereas for this population it appears not part of current law. I take issue with the article you shared which states, "The bill does not state when or if the parents ever need to be notified of their child’s whereabouts" ... but in fact it is right there in Sec. 2.3 regarding the "agencies" obligation to contact DCYF responsibility to contact parents (and below that in Section 3 it says that the agencies or homes have to contact DCYF within 72 hours.

 

[TheOriginalSoCalDawg]

Can you point to me in the bill where it does what you say it does: coerce or promote any of the above practices? which I agree is not the state's role.

I don't see detainment here, 1, and, 2, I don't see promotion or "convincing" of said practices.

In fact, I see what you suggest in the bill, which is: "(i) Offer to make referrals on behalf of the minor for appropriate behavioral health services"

with the only other obligation of the state being "(ii) Offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family."

I think therapy is super important, totally agree, especially in complex issues of identity like this, but I think the section I quote above explicitly states that the state to "shall" offer to provide that, whereas for this population it appears not part of current law. I take issue with the article you shared which states, "The bill does not state when or if the parents ever need to be notified of their child’s whereabouts" ... but in fact it is right there in Sec. 2.3 regarding the "agencies" obligation to contact DCYF responsibility to contact parents (and below that in Section 3 it says that the agencies or homes have to contact DCYF within 72 hours.

@nice marmot You actually touched on a huge issue IMO. Is a 9 year old child truly capable of understanding in every case if that his or her issue is an “issue of identity”? Would you trust an elementary school counselor coming to that conclusion in regard to your child without your initial involvement if he or she were in that situation? I think it’s more than a fair question.

To my point, here is the type of situation I’m referring to. It’s from Chico, CA, but the point remains:

Mom suing Chico Unified over child's gender identity shares her story

Chico mom shared with Action News Now additional details on the lawsuit she filed against Chico Unified School District after she said one of the school's socially transitioned her daughter's

www.actionnewsnow.com

It’s pure evil.

 

[zingerdawg]

I’ll defer to @nice marmot on the reading of the actual bill. Of course, we know this is the latest dog whistle designed to stir up Team Red and get the indignation flowing.

So I’ll pose a question back to you. How do you feel about the growing list of states banning all gander affirming care before 18, regardless of medical or parental input, despite the fact that all of the following medical associations support that care when following the appropriate process? Who are the relevant major medical associations who support taking that decision out of the hands of the relevant doctors, parents and the patient themselves?

• American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
• American Academy of Dermatology
• American Academy of Family Physicians
• American Academy of Nursing
• American Academy of Pediatrics
• American Academy of Physician Assistants
• American College Health Association
• American College of Nurse-Midwives
• American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
• American College of Physicians
• American Counseling Association
• American Heart Association
• American Medical Association
• American Nurses Association
• American Osteopathic Association
• American Psychiatric Association
• American Psychological Association
• American Public Health Associationhttps://transhealthproject.org/reso...american-society-plastic-surgeons-statements/
• Endocrine Society
• Federation of Pediatric Organizations
• GLMA: Health Professionals Advancing LGBTQ Equality
• National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health
• National Association of Social Workershttps://transhealthproject.org/reso...mmission-correctional-health-care-statements/
• Pediatric Endocrine Society
• Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine
• World Medical Association

If they believe kids are ready to make this decision. They are all idiots.

You can’t see a rated r movie. You can’t buy tobacco. You can’t enlist in the armed forces. You can’t vote till you’re 18.

However if you want to sever your pecker, no age limit required. No consent needed. There should be no exceptions.

You are scared of the home reaction. (One exception listed)That would probably include 90 percent of Home reactions to someone wanting to make this decision before you are 18 years old. It is verbiage used to sound good, but highly dangerous. Not only that, but incredibly stupid. If you can wait till your 18 to have a cigarette, you can wait to have a sex change or transition.

Would love to see a list of all the mental health folks that know better. So I know who is batshit crazy. And who isn’t.

 

[WGrovedawg]

I have no idea what washington state's rules about all that are or what their DCYF is like, but the point seems to be "resolve the conflict and accomplish reunification of the family" as stated in the bill. at least as far as I can tell. maybe you read something different there.

Unless I have broken the law, the only reunification services offered should be to tell me where my kid is so I can come get them. I think that is where the gray area is, the shelter has 72 hrs to contact the DCYF. How long will it take DCYF to contact a parent? So maybe my kid is gone for a week or two and I don't know where they are and then I have to go to some state mandated reunification to get them back. You want to mandate some form of family counseling after the fact that is fine, but you can't keep people's kids without their knowledge unless you can prove they have broken a law.


-If a host home program serves a child without parental authorization who is seeking or receiving protected health care services, the host home program must: Report to the department within 72 hours of the youth's participation in the program and following this report the department shall make a good faith attempt to notify the parent of this report and offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family;

 

[DTwnDawg]

Washington just passed a bill in its house chamber allowing minors to start transitioning without parent consent. The even more disturbing part is the bill allows the state to hide minors from other states to do the same. It’s literally legalizing kidnapping and dismemberment of children. Imagine your 13 year old daughter having her breasts removed and coming home after being missing a few weeks? This stuff is bubbling up at the speed of light. A powder keg is building folks…..and those that know me here will tell you I’m not exactly an alarmist.

Washington bill allowing government to ‘hide your kid from you’ clears House

The Washington House has passed Senate Bill 5599 allowing youth shelters to keep runaway minors from their parents if seeking protected health care services for abortion or gender surgeries, without n

www.clarkcountytoday.com

But they can’t purchase alcohol, a gun, tobacco, and many other things (which most I agree with)
A sex change should be no different ..some really screwed up shi+

 

[cherrydawg]

leftist make me throw up.

 

[celticdawg]

leftist gag me.

Then you're doing it the wrong way.

 

[cherrydawg]

Then you're doing it the wrong way.

changed it so your evil juvenile mind can take a break.

 

[celticdawg]

changed it so your evil juvenile mind can take a break.

Still works, plus it's preserved in my post.

 

[ugaboz]

how sad is this
damn

 

[willdup]

If they believe kids are ready to make this decision. They are all idiots.

You can’t see a rated r movie. You can’t buy tobacco. You can’t enlist in the armed forces. You can’t vote till you’re 18.

However if you want to sever your pecker, no age limit required. No consent needed. There should be no exceptions.

You are scared of the home reaction. (One exception listed)That would probably include 90 percent of Home reactions to someone wanting to make this decision before you are 18 years old. It is verbiage used to sound good, but highly dangerous. Not only that, but incredibly stupid. If you can wait till your 18 to have a cigarette, you can wait to have a sex change or transition.

Would love to see a list of all the mental health folks that know better. So I know who is batshit crazy. And who isn’t.

That’s just rank hyperbole. No one is suggesting a minor can waltz into a clinic and have surgery and saying that gives the entire game away. Your analogy proves you don’t understand the first thing about this issue. You think people want to go through the unimaginable life disruptions of a transition, the lost friends and family, for the fun of it, like this is a recreational choice?

The vast majority of the people who have their pantries in a wade over this issue have absolutely no interest in learning the reality of what the effected people are dealing with, what the depression and suicide risk is for kids with severe gender issues. I don’t think anyone is suffereing from severe depression or killing themselves from lack of tobacco.

Of course, actual understanding requires caring about the issue and the people involved and not just caring about the potential culture war score keeping. It requires some thought and empathy, which seems to be an unrealistic ask for much of the right these days.

There is a reason the vast majority of the medical establishment supports gender affirming care for minors when appropriate, and it isn’t because they are all LGBTQ ghouls fiendishly planning to create an army of trans people to destroy western civilization.

 

[zingerdawg]

That’s just rank hyperbole. No one is suggesting a minor can waltz into a clinic and have surgery and saying that gives the entire game away. Your analogy proves you don’t understand the first thing about this issue. You think people want to go through the unimaginable life disruptions of a transition, the lost friends and family, for the fun of it, like this is a recreational choice?

The vast majority of the people who have their pantries in a wade over this issue have absolutely no interest in learning the reality of what the effected people are dealing with, what the depression and suicide risk is for kids with severe gender issues. I don’t think anyone is suffereing from severe depression or killing themselves from lack of tobacco.

Of course, actual understanding requires caring about the issue and the people involved and not just caring about the potential culture war score keeping. It requires some thought and empathy, which seems to be an unrealistic ask for much of the right these days.

There is a reason the vast majority of the medical establishment supports gender affirming case for minors when appropriate, and it isn’t because they are all LGBTQ ghouls fiendishly planning to create an army of trans people to destroy western culture.

I feel for people who know they should be a different gender. You have responded this way before. I don’t not feel for people who are different. Maybe some here don’t care. That is their prerogative. But that doesn’t mean anything to this argument. To use that is tugging on emotions only. Not using your brain.

I have had four teenagers now. All of my kids are now 18. And they have had tons of friends I have gotten to know over the years. None of whom were ready to make a decision like that at 13,14,15, 16 etc. they changed their minds and moods like the wind. There are five girls in my daughters class who have come out, gone back in, come out again, then gone back in only to say now they were never gay to begin with. You offer them advice. Counseling. Tools to mentally deal with it.

You don’t give them tools to change their bodies forever. That is progressive batshit craziness. And an evil thought. Even at 18 a lot aren’t sure of who they are. When did you figure it out. For the ones blessed enough to know at a young age and to be tortured, I feel for them. But that is a damn few teenagers or elementary kids which this will eventually apply to. The crazies in your party are already going there. Everyone has extreme morons. Don’t start listening to them will.

There is no defense here. You are toying with things that will get people killed. You let government officials tell parents you no longer have a choice in what your kid does, because they don’t agree with it. Wait and see the pushback. My wife would likely f’ing shoot you over that. If you told her, her son could transition without her weighing in at 15. I don’t know what I would, but I would do whatever I could to stop it.

 

[willdup]

I feel for people who know they should be a different gender. You have responded this way before. I don’t not feel for people who are different. Maybe some here don’t care. That is their prerogative. But that doesn’t mean anything to this argument. To use that is tugging on emotions only. Not using your brain.

I have had four teenagers now. All of my kids are now 18. And they have had tons of friends I have gotten to know over the years. None of whom were ready to make a decision like that at 13,14,15, 16 etc. they changed their minds and moods like the wind. There are five girls in my daughters class who have come out, gone back in, come out again, then gone back in only to say now they were never gay to begin with. You offer them advice. Counseling. Tools to mentally deal with it.

You don’t give them tools to change their bodies forever. That is progressive batshit craziness. And an evil thought. Even at 18 a lot aren’t sure of who they are. When did you figure it out. For the ones blessed enough to know at a young age and to be tortured, I feel for them. But that is a damn few teenagers or elementary kids which this will eventually apply to. The crazies in your party are already going there. Everyone has extreme morons. Don’t start listening to them will.

There is no defense here. You are toying with things that will get people killed. You let government officials tell parents you no longer have a choice in what your kid does, because they don’t agree with it. Wait and see the pushback. My wife would likely f’ing shoot you over that. If you told her, her son could transition without her weighing in at 15. I don’t know what I would, but I would do whatever I could to stop it.

You should read some more on the topic. There are a lot of kids with gender dysphoria who never “grow” out of it. The recommended steps in gender care are designed to determine who is an appropriate candidate for hormones or surgery and who isn’t.

But I also agree that the government should not be intervening in what should be a decision between the family and their doctors.

So does that mean we are aligned in opposition of the states who are banning any form of gender care for minors regardless of parental consent?

 

[zingerdawg]

You should read some more on the topic. There are a lot of kids with gender dysphoria who never “grow” out of it. The recommended steps in gender care are designed to determine who is an appropriate candidate for hormones or surgery and who isn’t.

But I also agree that the government should not be intervening in what should be a decision between the family and their doctors.

So does that mean we are aligned in opposition of the states who are banning any form of gender care for minors regardless of parental consent?

Gender care is fine. For advice when they are kids. Prepping for what will happen when they turn 18. That decision shouldn’t be made before then. By anyone.

What you don’t mention is the number of people who change their minds. You are allowing a kid to make a decision there is no turning back from. I am sure there are kids that never grow out of it. That isn’t even what I said. When you are young, it is difficult to figure out who or what you want to be. That is why we set age restrictions on things that could be too much for them. Alchohol. War. Movies. Voting. Driving. Marriage with minors. Statutory rape ages. Etc

Without a doubt allowing this will hurt just as many as it will help. Most likely more. I got nothing if you can’t see this. This is also just the start. Where will they stop at the age as well. You know they won’t. Next thing you know five year olds will be transitioning.

This is a little old school. And maybe corny to some. But it will explain it so anyone can understand the core base issue here among 100 issues.