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So let's change what Phil Robertson had to say a bit...

DawgFacedGremlin

DawgFacedGremlin

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May 29, 2001
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"Two guys break into an Christian's home. He has a little Christian wife and two little Christian daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him. And then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot 'em. And they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him. And they can look at him and say, 'Isn't it great that I don't have to worry about God stopping me? Isn't it great that God doesn't see anything wrong with this? There's no right or wrong, now is it dude?' "

Happens every day.....
 
The only reason Phil gets any attention is because of a silly..

tv show. There are many millions of people who think exactly like him and don't have the ability to get shown to the public. Phil is trying to somehow equate having a sense of right and wrong to being a Christian and that's not correct.
 
That makes no sense either...

Not to me. Most folks know the difference between right and wrong, regardless of their beliefs.
 
Agreed, and still shaking my head at the folks down the page

insisting just that. Several saying that because man has figured a sense of right and wrong, and has figured out that murder is wrong, that somehow that is proof that God exists. No, that's just proof that man has the ability to reason. By their faulty logic, any intellectual achievement or scientific breakthrough would also somehow register as proof of God. Some folks have very low standards for "proof".
 
You lost me, bud. Not sure what point you are trying to make.

Just because a person can do something, are you saying that, in and of itself, is proof that there is no right nor wrong, simply because God allowed them to do it?

Or are you saying that because God allowed it, it means that God doesn't see anything wrong with it?

God allowed man to bring sin into the world by way of his CHOICE of disobedience. God allows man to choose whether or not to do right or wrong eleventy-billion-gazillion times per day. Sin entered the world and it has been chaos ever since. But with sin in the world, we have a choice to make, usually many times per day. We choose to do the right thing or choose from a laundry list of options which are wrong.

If there is no right and no wrong, then there should be no laws. Murder, lying, stealing, harming another person, should not be made illegal and subject to punishment, if there is no such thing as right nor wrong.

The ultimate choice is whether or not we choose God's only Son, Jesus Christ, and His death, burial and resurrection, thereby defeating death (which man's sin brought into the world) as our atonement for our sin. God will prompt a person and they will assess themselves and answer the question of whether or not they are a sinner, by nature. We all are.

This post was edited on 3/27 2:08 PM by SleepingDawgLying
 
Just a crude analogy that makes you wonder why anyone cares what he has to


say and why he has a platform to say it.
 
Man has the ability to reason.

The presence of God is not necessary to figure out right and wrong. Christians do not have a monopoly on morals. Despite your misguided protestations, it's as simple as that.
 
Species survival, humans could not survive without societies and ...

societies cannot survive without some basic rules of what is acceptable to remain in society. The biggest, strongest human in a society cannot simply impose his will on everyone else and expect society to accept it. Society requires that people live together in some sort of harmony.
 
That's ridiculous. Species could easily survive....

by eating every third child born even though it's wrong.
 
Who told you that? Reason might also tell you to murder your parents....


so you could have more to eat. Reason is not a source of morality. Hitler reasoned that it would be "right" to murder millions of Jews.
This post was edited on 3/27 1:55 PM by MinnesotaDawg
 
Again, that wouldn't fly with any human society, if that's the way...

you are going to approach this, we really don't have anything to discuss. There have been, and are, many societies that had/have no belief in God in the Judeo Christian sense that have well developed senses of right and wrong. If you don't think so, nothing I can say will change your mind.
 
I guess the Crusaders thought it was "right" to kill all the Muslims..

in the Holy Land and the Puritan Christians thought it was "right" to kill "witches" and the US Army thought it was "right" to kill Indian women and children? All these examples are of "wrong" things done by Christians or the military of a "Christian" nation. There will always be wrong done, it is a byproduct of human nature, it has nothing to do with the presence or lack of the Christian religion. Humans form into societies for protection and to make the gathering of resources easier. There has to be basic rules of right and wrong or the society will collapse, regardless of whether there is any sort of religion or not.
 
Yup....It's all good to kill in God's name...

especially when it's the most convenient excuse.....Mooslims been using that excuse to martyr Christians for thousands of years.
 
All societies define basic morality the same.....

where did the standard come from?
 
Just because a person is a Christian doesn't mean they no longer...

... have a sin nature. Some people say they are Christians and they are living like anything but a Christian. Some Christians are misguided and they may not kill people but they may hurt them emotionally. Christians are not perfect and no one should think that Christians think they are anywhere near perfect. In fact, a true Christian will realize and know, intimately, just how sinful is their nature and that they do need Jesus Christ as their intercessor and their redeemer.

Do jackals and snakes observe right and wrong? I saw brief bit of a documentary, last night, on BBC America. These penguins were in Antartica and it was the season when they had their babies. Two penguin chicks had been left unattended and a big bird swooped in and snatched one of them up from the nest and took it over to a place where a bunch of those birds encircled it and ripped the baby penguin to shreds and ate it. That isn't living by rules of right and wrong. That is living by rules of "me first."

The lion kingdom doesn't have a "Feed The Hungry" program where they take their own food that they've gone out and worked for and give it to some poor, starving animal who doesn't have anything to eat. Rattlesnakes don't help other animals by building them shelters or collecting food and water for them. Nope, it is pure survival. I'm glad we humans are different creations, created in the image of God (spiritual image, spiritual being).

Humans can become downright horrid and do horrible things to other humans. We humans have ways of handling that, though. Many places have laws in place where if a person is found guilty of murdering another person in cold blood, they are in turn executed and they pay with their own life. We imprison people for many other offenses they commit against other humans. Animals don't do that. But they are still around.

Also, the Crusaders responded to Muslims who were killing other people (sound familiar?). I guess if we went in, today, and began fighting ISIS and were killing many of them, that would somehow be wrong? It isn't wrong to protect innocent people from murderers, especially when the murderer is hell bent on not being told how they will live and will murder you for trying to stop them.

People killing witches... that was the zealots in good ole' Massachusetts who still associated themselves with the Church of England. Yankee history teaches us that they came for religious freedom (and most of them did). But, interestingly, the colony of Massachusetts created laws that said that if people didn't belong to the "official" church they could not vote. These are the same people who threw out Roger Williams from their colony because of his views of what he believed to be a corrupt Church of England and his separatist teachings (Roger Williams is who started the colony, Providence Plantation Rhode Island). Those are people calling themselves Christians but not exactly walking the walk.

This post was edited on 3/27 6:23 PM by SleepingDawgLying
 
I wasn't around when the development occurred, but I would guess...

it was something of a trial and error thing. I'm sure some early human societies didn't adopt or develop the basic morality and those societies failed. The ones that had some basic morality base survived.
 
They sacrificed them for years - most in the name of some God or another *

s
 
Yes, but aren't you the guy that believes in the Global Warming religion?

And you're shaking your head about someone else having low standards of "proof"??

My apologies if I am thinking of someone else.
 
I just wonder how/why a descendent of pond scum would even...

... conceive the idea of morality. Why didn't the other evolved varieties develop the same concept?

Why is there even such a concept, anyway, if we're all just miraculous accidents that somehow, unexplainably, came to life out of a place where life could not possibly exist?
 
You might think that some societies would evolve....

by defining courage as running from the enemy. You might call that a survival technique.
 
How does any of that connect with your point?

I'm assuming your point is that right and wrong don't come from God, but from Man. I may have assumed incorrectly.
 
What's the fundamental difference? Just because a bunch of people...

like the whole social contract "Golden Rule" type of society, doesn't mean that's better for us as a species.

You have to admit that there's a lot of dead weight in humanity. Maybe we'd fare better if certain folks simply weren't allowed to breed at will.

Non-predatory animals like deer or bison need to have natural predators in order to control herd growth, otherwise they over populate and begin starving to death because they outstrip the environment's capacity to support them. There are lots of examples of that happening. It's happening right now with the California Sea Lion. They have grossly overpopulated largely due to preservation efforts and are wiping out their food source and now large numbers of pups are washing up on beaches starving to death.

The lefties of course think it's global warming but it is simply a matter of over population. The same has happened from time to time with white tail deer.

What would it matter if a large enough majority of people decided it was best for us as a species to operate more like lions and less like deer? If they agree to that, their concept of right and wrong and what's moral is no less valid than yours.
 
As a matter of fact, just believing in God doesn't make you a Christian...

... either. As the old saying goes, even Satan believes in God. In fact, according to God's word, Satan can, and does, sometimes quote scripture in his efforts to deceive.

Repentance is required. Repentance means realizing one is a sinner and you turn away from your sinful ways.

But that's not all, either.

God, Himself, prompts you the individual. That is what leads a person to self-conviction, seeing themselves as the sinner they truly are.

It is then that you have the choice before you, to simply accept the sinless life of Christ, his death as the unblemished, lamb, his burial and his resurrection on the third day (not "in three days," on the third day... ie, Friday, Saturday, Sunday), as payment for YOUR sin.

Romans 10:9 says:

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your
heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Then, and only then, does a person become a Christian.
 
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