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Germans...Oxford Epidemiologist: Here’s Why That Doomsday Model Is Likely Way Off

JohnnyBeeDawg

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Government policy and guidance crafted in an effort to “flatten the curve” of coronavirus-related deaths has largely been based upon an Imperial College London model headed by Professor Neil Ferguson.

The terrifying model shows that as many as 2.2 million Americans could perish from the virus if no action is taken, peaking in June.

However, that model is likely highly flawed, Oxford epidemiologist Sunetra Gupta argues.

Professor Gupta lead a team of researchers at Oxford University in a modeling study which suggests that the virus has been invisibly spreading for at least a month earlier than suspected, concluding that as many as half of the people in the United Kingdom have already been infected by COVID-19.

If this is the case, fewer than one in a thousand who’ve been infected with COVID-19 become sick enough to need hospitalization, leaving the vast majority with mild cases or free of symptoms.

With so many in the U.K. (and potentially the United States) presumably infected, so-called “herd immunity” could kick into effect, dramatically limiting the number of deaths modeled by Ferguson and company.

“The Oxford study is based on a what is known as a ‘susceptibility-infected-recovered model’ of Covid-19, built up from case and death reports from the UK and Italy,” the Financial Times explains. “The researchers made what they regard as the most plausible assumptions about the behaviour of the virus.”

The report continues: “The modelling brings back into focus ‘herd immunity’, the idea that the virus will stop spreading when enough people have become resistant to it because they have already been infected.”

While the notion of “herd immunity” has been essentially dropped in U.K. policy making, “the Oxford results would mean the country had already acquired substantial herd immunity through the unrecognised spread of Covid-19 over more than two months.”

The Financial Times emphasized: “If the findings are confirmed by testing, then the current restrictions could be removed much sooner than ministers have indicated.”

“I am surprised that there has been such unqualified acceptance of the Imperial model,” Gupta criticized.

Of course, the epidemiologist encouraged caution and suggested changes to policy and guidance only be made after more evidence can be presented.

The Oxford group is working with researchers at the Universities of Cambridge and Kent to begin antibody testing on the general U.K. population later this week by using specialised “neutralisation assays which provide reliable readout of protective immunity,” Gupta explained.

“We need immediately to begin large-scale serological surveys — antibody testing — to assess what stage of the epidemic we are in now,” the professor said.

Other respected medical professionals have offered a more optimistic look on the coming weeks and months with COVID-19, too.

For example, Stanford biophysicist and Nobel laureate Michael Levitt said this week, “The real situation is not as nearly as terrible as they make it out to be.”

Last week, Levitt emphasized: “[Y]ou need to think of corona like a severe flu. It is four to eight times as strong as a common flu, and yet, most people will remain healthy and humanity will survive.”
 
Seems like every day we get more data, and more expert medical people are disputing the doomsday predictions that have dominated the media for a month.
# of cases, mortality rate, amount of PPE, strain on hospitals. The goalposts are definitely moving. No idea where it ends. I do know the disgusting dems want it to drag out as long as possible.
 
Seems like every day we get more data, and more expert medical people are disputing the doomsday predictions that have dominated the media for a month.

"If it bleeds, it leads" has been the mantra of the media for as long as anyone can remember. So naturally they're going to focus on the worst-case scenarios & hardest-hit locations and make it seem like it's the same everywhere.
 
Just got update, they decided to name them all Donald to cover their bases. Only made sense, because their plan was to blame them all on Trump anyway.
 
Government policy and guidance crafted in an effort to “flatten the curve” of coronavirus-related deaths has largely been based upon an Imperial College London model headed by Professor Neil Ferguson.

The terrifying model shows that as many as 2.2 million Americans could perish from the virus if no action is taken, peaking in June.

However, that model is likely highly flawed, Oxford epidemiologist Sunetra Gupta argues.

Professor Gupta lead a team of researchers at Oxford University in a modeling study which suggests that the virus has been invisibly spreading for at least a month earlier than suspected, concluding that as many as half of the people in the United Kingdom have already been infected by COVID-19.

If this is the case, fewer than one in a thousand who’ve been infected with COVID-19 become sick enough to need hospitalization, leaving the vast majority with mild cases or free of symptoms.

With so many in the U.K. (and potentially the United States) presumably infected, so-called “herd immunity” could kick into effect, dramatically limiting the number of deaths modeled by Ferguson and company.

“The Oxford study is based on a what is known as a ‘susceptibility-infected-recovered model’ of Covid-19, built up from case and death reports from the UK and Italy,” the Financial Times explains. “The researchers made what they regard as the most plausible assumptions about the behaviour of the virus.”

The report continues: “The modelling brings back into focus ‘herd immunity’, the idea that the virus will stop spreading when enough people have become resistant to it because they have already been infected.”

While the notion of “herd immunity” has been essentially dropped in U.K. policy making, “the Oxford results would mean the country had already acquired substantial herd immunity through the unrecognised spread of Covid-19 over more than two months.”

The Financial Times emphasized: “If the findings are confirmed by testing, then the current restrictions could be removed much sooner than ministers have indicated.”

“I am surprised that there has been such unqualified acceptance of the Imperial model,” Gupta criticized.

Of course, the epidemiologist encouraged caution and suggested changes to policy and guidance only be made after more evidence can be presented.

The Oxford group is working with researchers at the Universities of Cambridge and Kent to begin antibody testing on the general U.K. population later this week by using specialised “neutralisation assays which provide reliable readout of protective immunity,” Gupta explained.

“We need immediately to begin large-scale serological surveys — antibody testing — to assess what stage of the epidemic we are in now,” the professor said.

Other respected medical professionals have offered a more optimistic look on the coming weeks and months with COVID-19, too.

For example, Stanford biophysicist and Nobel laureate Michael Levitt said this week, “The real situation is not as nearly as terrible as they make it out to be.”

Last week, Levitt emphasized: “[Y]ou need to think of corona like a severe flu. It is four to eight times as strong as a common flu, and yet, most people will remain healthy and humanity will survive.”

I am not an epidemiologist.
being said, I absolutely agree with this.
I don't live in NYC or Wash St. I'm doing what the Man want's for now.
what concerns me is the $ that's just pulled out of our arses from nowhere.?
david (damn) copperfield shat?

correct me if I'm wrong. seriously.
 
Seems like every day we get more data, and more expert medical people are disputing the doomsday predictions that have dominated the media for a month.

Sure if you cherry pick.

So you keep using herd immunity. Could you explain it in your own words? And do you see why there could be a massive problem with relying on it as a solution?
 
I am not an epidemiologist.
being said, I absolutely agree with this.
I don't live in NYC or Wash St. I'm doing what the Man want's for now.
what concerns me is the $ that's just pulled out of our arses from nowhere.?
david (damn) copperfield shat?

correct me if I'm wrong. seriously.
David Copperfield made most of that money disappear in 1987, apparently it has re-appeared just in time for the bill to pass. Whew!
 
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Sure if you cherry pick.

So you keep using herd immunity. Could you explain it in your own words? And do you see why there could be a massive problem with relying on it as a solution?
I have never mentioned "herd immunity". The 2 Stanford Med School professors explained it, though.
 
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Hmmm

I’m still in a wait to see mode as things progress but more & more retractions are coming forward.



I posted an article about that today.
These dire "models" remind me of ALL the climate change models. Every single one has been dead wrong. Every single climate change model ever created has been proved wrong by actual measured data....except the 2 that predicted zero unusual warming. They have come true.
Good models depend on reliable data, and logic. Both have been lacking in this virus panic.
 
Im white, and Im slow. I have to trust the best medical minds on Earth for my information about the virus instead of the media, or left wing think tanks promoting talking points.
And what qualifies them as the best on earth? Besides the fact that they are one of the few sources that agree with you.

And you also can't explain why they reasoning could lead to a disaster.
 
And what qualifies them as the best on earth? Besides the fact that they are one of the few sources that agree with you.

And you also can't explain why they reasoning could lead to a disaster.
Well, Steve, it’s private enterprise which makes them the best on earth. It’s the mother of innovation, which has made our country the greatest innovators in the history of civilization. I know this is anathema to you, because you hope for the defeat and diminishment of American uniqueness to the benefit of stinking African and Asian crapholes. But, I’m sorry, it is private enterprise rather than socialist disincentive that brings about great innovation.
 
And what qualifies them as the best on earth? Besides the fact that they are one of the few sources that agree with you.

And you also can't explain why they reasoning could lead to a disaster.
They've been right for years, and the other sources I mentioned haven't, and are not comporting with the data that is actually happening, or with common sense. I believe Dr. Birx's speech today over yours. We will just have to see.
 
Well, Steve, it’s private enterprise which makes them the best on earth. It’s the mother of innovation, which has made our country the greatest innovators in the history of civilization. I know this is anathema to you, because you hope for the defeat and diminishment of American uniqueness to the benefit of stinking African and Asian crapholes. But, I’m sorry, it is private enterprise rather than socialist disincentive that brings about great innovation.
Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that's got nothing to do with what I was saying.
 
They've been right for years, and the other sources I mentioned haven't, and are not comporting with the data that is actually happening, or with common sense. I believe Dr. Birx's speech today over yours. We will just have to see.

You're getting things mixed up.

Taking the model of what would happen if no precaution was taken and comparing it to what we see, where the massive changes worked, is at best misleading.

I legitimately can't believe Dr. Brix said that.
 
You're getting things mixed up.

Taking the model of what would happen if no precaution was taken and comparing it to what we see, where the massive changes worked, is at best misleading.

I legitimately can't believe Dr. Brix said that.

She said it because of all the hyperventilating of propaganda outlets making the situation worse by instilling irrational fear & panic across the country
 
She said it because of all the hyperventilating of propaganda outlets making the situation worse by instilling irrational fear & panic across the country

That's different than what I'm talking about.

I was talking about comparing the model based on no action being taken to what we see happened, where massive action was taken. That's misleading, at best.

Imagine you have a grease fire in your kitchen. Your friend warns you that if you don't put it out it will burn down the whole house.

You get it stifled before it does too much damage.

You then call your friend a liar because the fired ruined the cabinets but didn't burn down the whole house.
 
That's different than what I'm talking about.

I was talking about comparing the model based on no action being taken to what we see happened, where massive action was taken. That's misleading, at best.

Imagine you have a grease fire in your kitchen. Your friend warns you that if you don't put it out it will burn down the whole house.

You get it stifled before it does too much damage.

You then call your friend a liar because the fired ruined the cabinets but didn't burn down the whole house.

It’s not different

Media is still using numbers from that study. People on this board, twitters, other boards, businesses, mayors, governors, etc are still using them.

The questions she was being asked were using them.

She pointed out they were seeing different numbers based on the actions being taken.

Heck the guy who came up with the models has stated the same as of today

That’s all she did.

Not sure your point
 
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It’s not different

Media is still using numbers from that study. People on this board, twitters, other boards, businesses, mayors, governors, etc are still using them.

The questions she was being asked were using them.

She pointed out they were seeing different numbers based on the actions being taken.

Heck the guy who came up with the models has stated the same as of today

That’s all she did.

Not sure your point

And people on this board are using that same reasoning to say that the model was a made up fabrication.

That's what I was talking about.
 
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That's different than what I'm talking about.

I was talking about comparing the model based on no action being taken to what we see happened, where massive action was taken. That's misleading, at best.

Imagine you have a grease fire in your kitchen. Your friend warns you that if you don't put it out it will burn down the whole house.

You get it stifled before it does too much damage.

You then call your friend a liar because the fired ruined the cabinets but didn't burn down the whole house.
tenor.gif
 
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