Great article by Jonathan Turley

[CoastalVADawg]

I have always respected Jonathan Turley. This is a chilling yet very important article. Although I would argue the ant-free speech movement hit our shores years ago during COVID under Democrat control. The irony of Democrats calling free speech fascism and those who want to defend free speech as Nazis are themselves doing the very things the Nazis actually did.

 

[TivoliDawg]

I have always respected Jonathan Turley. This is a chilling yet very important article. Although I would argue the ant-free speech movement hit our shores years ago during COVID under Democrat control. The irony of Democrats calling free speech fascism and those who want to defend free speech as Nazis are themselves doing the very things the Nazis actually did.

View embedded media

It’s a good article but that doesn’t offer any solutions to the social media problem we, and the world, face. Misinformation is a huge problem. There’s evidence of it on this board daily. The question is what is the best way to deal with it. Obviously, jailing people for holding views that are repugnant, or simply not based on fact, is not the answer. But I do feel social media is a net negative for society. How do we fix it?

 

[stray]

It’s a good article but that doesn’t offer any solutions to the social media problem we, and the world, face. Misinformation is a huge problem. There’s evidence of it on this board daily. The question is what is the best way to deal with it. Obviously, jailing people for holding views that are repugnant, or simply not based on fact, is not the answer. But I do feel social media is a net negative for society. How do we fix it?

The only cure for speech you don't like is more free speech.

Isn't it amazing how "misinformation" seems to be determined by the beliefs of the person pointing it out. The word it self has been so hijacked by the media that is has little meaning anymore. I is merely a tool now to shut down debate. You cannot stop misinformation because nobody knows what it is.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

It’s a good article but that doesn’t offer any solutions to the social media problem we, and the world, face. Misinformation is a huge problem. There’s evidence of it on this board daily. The question is what is the best way to deal with it. Obviously, jailing people for holding views that are repugnant, or simply not based on fact, is not the answer. But I do feel social media is a net negative for society. How do we fix it?

You dam sure dont fix it by censoring dissent and competing ideas. I am old enough to remember when folks that didnt buy the bat theory or based on a lifetime of experience opined that masking was futile were accused of spreading misinfo. Shutting down free speech instead of challenging misinfo is literally tyranny

 

[ugaboz]

it is very sad what the Dems believe free speech is
oh and they love to race bait still
kinda weird but they are some weird folks

 

[ugaboz]

You dam sure dont fix it by censoring decent and competing ideas. I am old enough to remember when folks that didnt buy the bat theory or based on a lifetime of experience opined that masking was futile were accused of spreading misinfo. Shutting down free speech instead of challenging misinfo is literally tyranny

and the spring of 20 was all of that and more

 

[CoastalVADawg]

It’s a good article but that doesn’t offer any solutions to the social media problem we, and the world, face. Misinformation is a huge problem. There’s evidence of it on this board daily. The question is what is the best way to deal with it. Obviously, jailing people for holding views that are repugnant, or simply not based on fact, is not the answer. But I do feel social media is a net negative for society. How do we fix it?

What is “misinformation?” Who determines it?

Much of the so-called “misinformation” that was censored during COVID ended up being truth, while much of what the government was pushing turned out to be false.

The problem can be fixed by having an independent unbiased press, which we do not have right now. Mainstream media is to blame for many of the issues with social media, as they have become the de facto state media for the Democratic Party.

 

[ThreeDawgNight]

What is “misinformation?” Who determines it?

Much of the so-called “misinformation” that was censored during COVID ended up being truth, while much of what the government was pushing turned out to be false.

The problem can be fixed by having an independent unbiased press, which we do not have right now. Mainstream media is to blame for many of the issues with social media, as they have become the de facto state media for the Democratic Party.

Very well stated.

 

[d-dawg]

In other words, libs like to limit free speech as long as they get to determine what is misinformation. Kind of like stacking the deck.

 

[CoastalVADawg]

Another good read from Turley

The Demonization of Dissent: How the Left is Framing Free Speech as a Front for Fascism

The defense of free speech by Vice President J.D. Vance in Munich, Germany, has led to open panic on the left in fighting to maintain European censorship and speech criminalization. The response of…

jonathanturley.org

 

[Athens is Heaven]

The only cure for speech you don't like is more free speech.

Isn't it amazing how "misinformation" seems to be determined by the beliefs of the person pointing it out. The word it self has been so hijacked by the media that is has little meaning anymore. I is merely a tool now to shut down debate. You cannot stop misinformation because nobody knows what it is.

To the Libs and Progressives misinformation is something that they do not agree with therefore you should shut up and listen to me thing. Therefore what you say is not correct.

 

[oldmandawg]

What is “misinformation?” Who determines it?

Much of the so-called “misinformation” that was censored during COVID ended up being truth, while much of what the government was pushing turned out to be false.

The problem can be fixed by having an independent unbiased press, which we do not have right now. Mainstream media is to blame for many of the issues with social media, as they have become the de facto state media for the Democratic Party.

You can never hate the media enough.

 

[TivoliDawg]

What is “misinformation?” Who determines it?

Much of the so-called “misinformation” that was censored during COVID ended up being truth, while much of what the government was pushing turned out to be false.

The problem can be fixed by having an independent unbiased press, which we do not have right now. Mainstream media is to blame for many of the issues with social media, as they have become the de facto state media for the Democratic Party.

Who determines what misinformation is? That is a really important question. Some things are easy as they are observably true.

Just in the last few months I've had guys swear on this board that:
1) Trump really won the 2020 election (he did not)
2) There was massive fraud to elect Joe Biden (there was not)
3) Hegseth did not cheat on his ex-wife (he did)
4) one guy told me he is not aware of any lies that Donald Trump has ever told (he was serious when he said this)
5) Ivermectin prevents/ cures Covid-19 (it does not).

There's really no point in going on listing more.

Other things like "Elon is uncovering fraud!!!". That is in the eye of the beholder. There is no fraud uncovered yet, not a single dollar. Yet, there is so much waste and lack of oversight that couldn't it be considered negligent? I think it could/ should.

Elon posting there are millions of SSNs receiving benefits when they are way too old is not matching up other data sources within the SSA. He could be right, but there are other folks saying he's wrong. If he makes these claims on Twitter, but never produces any evidence of it, you have to assume he's exaggerating / lying.

In terms of COVID, no, "much" of what the gov't was pushing was not false. Some of it proved to be false. Not splitting hairs. Also, I can tell you of a man I ran into in the hallway of my old job and he was literally... blue. I don't know how to describe it. He didn't "believe" in the COVID shot because he read a bunch of crap on Twitter so he bought this liquid off the internet that contained silver. He actually drank silver. This turned almost his entire body blue, permanently. While he did not die, he is maimed forever because of this nonsense. It has real consequences. Also, trying to vaccinate kids against COVID-19 (and shutting down schools) when there is evidence that it really doesn't affect kids was stupid. Don't even get me started on Democrats trying to end evictions for several years. I had to evict a bum tenant who still owes me $21,000 in unpaid rent.

Many in the media have a left-wing slant; completely true. Whole newsrooms do, but is Fox News down the middle? Is NewsMax? of course not. You need to consume a variety of news sources (not your buddy Jimmy Joe on Twitter) to perceive what the facts are.

 

[TivoliDawg]

You dam sure dont fix it by censoring dissent and competing ideas. I am old enough to remember when folks that didnt buy the bat theory or based on a lifetime of experience opined that masking was futile were accused of spreading misinfo. Shutting down free speech instead of challenging misinfo is literally tyranny

I understand how you feel.

But do social media companies bare any responsibility at all (legal or ethical) for what is posted on their platforms? Currently, they do not. But during times of crisis, and COVID-19 certainly was one, the government should ask them to take down harmful posts. Particularly about the ivermectin nonsense or the liquid silver I posted about elsewhere in this thread. That misinformation will hurt people. These are your family members.

That being said, I think the wet market theory and the lab leak theory are equally plausible but I give the slight edge to the lab leak theory. It seems an awfully big coincidence that the first incidence was in Wuhan, China. Also, masking does work, always has but you don't need to do it outside (lolol) or when you're alone in your car (lololololo) People take things way too far.

It's easier to complain than it is to solve problems. If Americans get a lot of their "information" from social media, including TikTok which is literally run by the Communist Chinese, what do we do about that? That is a bad thing but what is the solution? Community notes on Twitter? Letting a bunch of random people vote on what the truth is cannot be the answer. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[TivoliDawg]

The only cure for speech you don't like is more free speech.

Isn't it amazing how "misinformation" seems to be determined by the beliefs of the person pointing it out. The word it self has been so hijacked by the media that is has little meaning anymore. I is merely a tool now to shut down debate. You cannot stop misinformation because nobody knows what it is.

Speak for yourself. I know what misinformation is. If you don't, so be it.

 

[ugaboz]

Who determines what misinformation is? That is a really important question. Some things are easy as they are observably true.

Just in the last few months I've had guys swear on this board that:
1) Trump really won the 2020 election (he did not)
2) There was massive fraud to elect Joe Biden (there was not)
3) Hegseth did not cheat on his ex-wife (he did)
4) one guy told me he is not aware of any life that Donald Trump has ever told (he was serious when he said this)
5) Ivermectin prevents/ cures Covid-19 (it does not).

There's really no point in going on listing more.

Other things like "Elon is uncovering fraud!!!". That is in the eye of the beholder. There is no fraud uncovered yet, not a single dollar. Yet, there is so much waste and lack of oversight that couldn't it be considered negligent? I think it could/ should.

Elon posting there are millions of SSNs receiving benefits when they are way too old is not matching up other data sources within the SSA. He could be right, but there are other folks saying he's wrong. If he makes these claims on Twitter, but never produces any evidence of it, you have to assume he's exaggerating / lying.

In terms of COVID, no, "much" of what the gov't was pushing was not false. Some of it proved to be false. Not splitting hairs. Also, I can tell you of a man I ran into in the hallway of my old job and he was literally... blue. I don't know how to describe it. He didn't "believe" in the COVID shot because he read a bunch of crap on Twitter so he bought this liquid off the internet that contained silver. He actually drank silver. This turned almost his entire body blue, permanently. While he did not die, he is maimed forever because of this nonsense. It has real consequences. Also, trying to vaccinate kids against COVID-19 (and shutting down schools) when there is evidence that it really doesn't affect kids was stupid. Don't even get me started on Democrats trying to end evictions for several years. I had to evict a bum tenant who still owes me $21,000 in unpaid rent.

Many in the media have a left-wing slant; completely true. Whole newsrooms do, but is Fox News down the middle? Is NewsMax? of course not. You need to consume a variety of news sources (not your buddy Jimmy Joe on Twitter) to perceive what the facts are.

I had someone say they were a pub but turned out to be a lib in disguise

 

[poochpup]

The only cure for speech you don't like is more free speech.

The word it self has been so hijacked by the media that is has little meaning anymore.

"follow the science" – same thing. Dems/Socialists have hijacked, actually destroyed once respected words and speech.

 

[rjpdawg11]

I love how people that want to shut down PBS , close radio stations and newspapers that don’t share the autocratic beliefs of their chosen one claim to be advocates of free speech.

 

[PawPawDawg]

The two sides are never going to agree. I honestly think that Fox News is closer to the center that many believe BUT the far left slant from most other news platforms makes them look very right wing.

I agree, censorship is not the answer. Because it will only depend which side is in power to determine what is misinformation.

In my opinion, the biggest underlying problem is our schools no longer seem to be teaching critical thinking skills to the kids. Personally, I am conservative, but I try to avoid echo chambers that only repeat the things I agree with. I want to hear both sides, consider both sides and then make what to me seems to be a reasonable decision. I think not enough people want to do the thinking themselves and are content to just follow along with what they hear wherever.

 

[TCBDawg]

Who determines what misinformation is? That is a really important question. Some things are easy as they are observably true.

Just in the last few months I've had guys swear on this board that:
1) Trump really won the 2020 election (he did not)
2) There was massive fraud to elect Joe Biden (there was not)
3) Hegseth did not cheat on his ex-wife (he did)
4) one guy told me he is not aware of any life that Donald Trump has ever told (he was serious when he said this)
5) Ivermectin prevents/ cures Covid-19 (it does not).

There's really no point in going on listing more.

Other things like "Elon is uncovering fraud!!!". That is in the eye of the beholder. There is no fraud uncovered yet, not a single dollar. Yet, there is so much waste and lack of oversight that couldn't it be considered negligent? I think it could/ should.

Elon posting there are millions of SSNs receiving benefits when they are way too old is not matching up other data sources within the SSA. He could be right, but there are other folks saying he's wrong. If he makes these claims on Twitter, but never produces any evidence of it, you have to assume he's exaggerating / lying.

In terms of COVID, no, "much" of what the gov't was pushing was not false. Some of it proved to be false. Not splitting hairs. Also, I can tell you of a man I ran into in the hallway of my old job and he was literally... blue. I don't know how to describe it. He didn't "believe" in the COVID shot because he read a bunch of crap on Twitter so he bought this liquid off the internet that contained silver. He actually drank silver. This turned almost his entire body blue, permanently. While he did not die, he is maimed forever because of this nonsense. It has real consequences. Also, trying to vaccinate kids against COVID-19 (and shutting down schools) when there is evidence that it really doesn't affect kids was stupid. Don't even get me started on Democrats trying to end evictions for several years. I had to evict a bum tenant who still owes me $21,000 in unpaid rent.

Many in the media have a left-wing slant; completely true. Whole newsrooms do, but is Fox News down the middle? Is NewsMax? of course not. You need to consume a variety of news sources (not your buddy Jimmy Joe on Twitter) to perceive what the facts are.

You sound like Schumer. Not surprising.

And if you think the mail in ballots of 2020 were legit well…… liberal on dude.

 

[JoeDogs]

I have always respected Jonathan Turley. This is a chilling yet very important article. Although I would argue the ant-free speech movement hit our shores years ago during COVID under Democrat control. The irony of Democrats calling free speech fascism and those who want to defend free speech as Nazis are themselves doing the very things the Nazis actually did.

View embedded media

This a very good story .

 

[stray]

Speak for yourself. I know what misinformation is. If you don't, so be it.

So, you want the Trump administration to determine what is misinformation and put a stop it. I wouldn't agree with that, but you do you.

 

[TivoliDawg]

So, you want the Trump administration to determine what is misinformation and put a stop it. I wouldn't agree with that, but you do you.

No. That is not what I said nor what I want.

 

[stray]

No. That is not what I said nor what I want.

Whether you know it or not, that is what you said. Someone is going to make that decision and it won't be me or you and neither of us may like who makes those decisions.

 

[TivoliDawg]

I love how people that want to shut down PBS , close radio stations and newspapers that don’t share the autocratic beliefs of their chosen one claim to be advocates of free speech.

I haven’t seen anyone wanting to shut them down, only suggesting that it is not useful to have state-run/ state-sponsored media. I think I can agree with that.

 

[TivoliDawg]

The two sides are never going to agree. I honestly think that Fox News is closer to the center that many believe BUT the far left slant from most other news platforms makes them look very right wing.

I agree, censorship is not the answer. Because it will only depend which side is in power to determine what is misinformation.

In my opinion, the biggest underlying problem is our schools no longer seem to be teaching critical thinking skills to the kids. Personally, I am conservative, but I try to avoid echo chambers that only repeat the things I agree with. I want to hear both sides, consider both sides and then make what to me seems to be a reasonable decision. I think not enough people want to do the thinking themselves and are content to just follow along with what they hear wherever.

Yeah you have to seek out different point of view because there is no single entity anymore that will discuss all angles.

You used to be able to pick one source, but each media company decided they make more money placating to a particular extreme. That’s why Americans are actually less knowledgeable now than they used to be. At most, you’re getting half the story. At worst, you’re getting nonsense.

 

[poorpreacher]

It’s a good article but that doesn’t offer any solutions to the social media problem we, and the world, face. Misinformation is a huge problem. There’s evidence of it on this board daily. The question is what is the best way to deal with it. Obviously, jailing people for holding views that are repugnant, or simply not based on fact, is not the answer. But I do feel social media is a net negative for society. How do we fix it?

. You can address bad information with documented facts, but you can't stop someone from lying, if they want to lie. Unless you sew people's mouths shut.

 

[PawPawDawg]

Yeah you have to seek out different point of view because there is no single entity anymore that will discuss all angles.

You used to be able to pick one source, but each media company decided they make more money placating to a particular extreme. That’s why Americans are actually less knowledgeable now than they used to be. At most, you’re getting half the story. At worst, you’re getting nonsense.

My boss is very liberal. Generally we do not talk politics because we just see things differently. However, when Hillary and Trump were running in 2016, he and I did have a conversation. It went something like, "Surely you are not going to vote for Trump. Hey, instead of voting for Trump, why don't you just sit this election out." My response was, "I will be voting for Trump. I am not really sure what we will get with Trump, but I am very confident we know exactly what we will get with Hillary." And I left it at that with him. But I will say, I was, frankly, very offended at his suggestion. Sit this one out. I think all Americans should vote in every election they are eligible to vote in. Here is an idea--if you do not think I am voting the way you prefer, why not convince me that the candidate you support is the better choice instead of asking me to just not vote.

 

[cherrydawg]

Speak for yourself. I know what misinformation is. If you don't, so be it.

Bwhahahahahaha

You funny.

 

[poochpup]

I love how people that want to shut down PBS , close radio stations and newspapers that don’t share the autocratic beliefs of their chosen one claim to be advocates of free speech.

I don't think many advocate shutting down PBS ... they (I) do not want my tax dollars supporting the political bias it delves into. I'm all about culture, art, music, humanities, etc... if it is serving ALL the public, then it does not need to spin, espouse or lean toward a one-sided political view.