@kckd

[Mark M]

Here is my story so here we go. I was hired by a wire mill in 1985. I was 2 years out of high school. As I gained employment I was told if you want to get somewhere in life vote Democrat. Democrats were for unions and we were a union plant. I stayed there for 28 years of my life and I did become a Democrat. As the years rolled by I stated to notice a trend. Democrats slowly but surely was pulling away from the unions. Our union wasn’t a big one so we no longer counted. I continued to be a Democrat up until year 25 of my employment. I saw how weak the union had became so I decided to pocket my union dues and pulled out of the Union. In 2008 we noticed some upper management people walking through the plant and they finally got back to the area me and my buddies were working in. They proceeded to walk up to us and ask us if we knew why they were there. We had no idea but they were there looking at equipment to ship off to Mexico. They then told us George Bush is going to be blamed for all of this but Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and others were the cause of the problem. NAFTA was the deal that absolutely ruined manufacturing in this country and from 2009 on I have decided being a Democrat is nothing for me anymore so I changed. I can honestly say the Democrats from back in the day are nothing like what’s going on now. Pure evil is being nice to them. I wish Clinton Pelosi and whomever came up with NAFTA had it jammed up their asses sideways!! Have a Blessed Day My Friend!!

 

[kckd]

Here is my story so here we go. I was hired by a wire mill in 1985. I was 2 years out of high school. As I gained employment I was told if you want to get somewhere in life vote Democrat. Democrats were for unions and we were a union plant. I stayed there for 28 years of my life and I did become a Democrat. As the years rolled by I stated to notice a trend. Democrats slowly but surely was pulling away from the unions. Our union wasn’t a big one so we no longer counted. I continued to be a Democrat up until year 25 of my employment. I saw how weak the union had became so I decided to pocket my union dues and pulled out of the Union. In 2008 we noticed some upper management people walking through the plant and they finally got back to the area me and my buddies were working in. They proceeded to walk up to us and ask us if we knew why they were there. We had no idea but they were there looking at equipment to ship off to Mexico. They then told us George Bush is going to be blamed for all of this but Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and others were the cause of the problem. NAFTA was the deal that absolutely ruined manufacturing in this country and from 2009 on I have decided being a Democrat is nothing for me anymore so I changed. I can honestly say the Democrats from back in the day are nothing like what’s going on now. Pure evil is being nice to them. I wish Clinton Pelosi and whomever came up with NAFTA had it jammed up their asses sideways!! Have a Blessed Day My Friend!!

You too, friend. As I've said, I'm not voting on policy. Republicans could have run someone else. They chose not to. Have a great day. I think there are others on here that you would have a better conversation with on that kind of stuff. I'm not a Democrat.

 

[Mark M]

You’re fine bro. The people chose who they wanted on the Republican side. The Dems wound up destroying democracy. Who is running the country since Biden has disappeared using hard working taxpayers money?

 

[kckd]

You’re fine bro. The people chose who they wanted on the Republican side. The Dems wound up destroying democracy. Who is running the country since Biden has disappeared using hard working taxpayers money?

Respectfully disagree. Have a good day.

 

[Mark M]

You too

 

[willdup]

Here is my story so here we go. I was hired by a wire mill in 1985. I was 2 years out of high school. As I gained employment I was told if you want to get somewhere in life vote Democrat. Democrats were for unions and we were a union plant. I stayed there for 28 years of my life and I did become a Democrat. As the years rolled by I stated to notice a trend. Democrats slowly but surely was pulling away from the unions. Our union wasn’t a big one so we no longer counted. I continued to be a Democrat up until year 25 of my employment. I saw how weak the union had became so I decided to pocket my union dues and pulled out of the Union. In 2008 we noticed some upper management people walking through the plant and they finally got back to the area me and my buddies were working in. They proceeded to walk up to us and ask us if we knew why they were there. We had no idea but they were there looking at equipment to ship off to Mexico. They then told us George Bush is going to be blamed for all of this but Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and others were the cause of the problem. NAFTA was the deal that absolutely ruined manufacturing in this country and from 2009 on I have decided being a Democrat is nothing for me anymore so I changed. I can honestly say the Democrats from back in the day are nothing like what’s going on now. Pure evil is being nice to them. I wish Clinton Pelosi and whomever came up with NAFTA had it jammed up their asses sideways!! Have a Blessed Day My Friend!!

The process of ratifying and implementing NAFTA started during the Reagan administration and when it was finally ratified on November 17th, 1993, 132 republicans voted for it compared to 102 democrats. The strongest opposition came from democrats concerned about the impact on the domestic job market.

What ever other issues you have with democrats, Biden has been fantastic for manufacturing jobs. There are more factories currently under construction in this country than there have been since before the Great Depression.

 

[Mark M]

So I guess what you are trying to say is I was lied to but it’s ok. I learned once I got older I didn’t want to be a Democrat and I will never look back. I too am voting for policy. Borders, Groceries, Gas and a lot of other things are what I’m voting for. Abortion shouldn’t be a Federal Decision. States should handle that. Y’all can see how things really are so it’s going to be ok.

 

[Mark M]

The process of ratifying and implementing NAFTA started during the Reagan administration and when it was finally ratified on November 17th, 1993, 132 republicans voted for it compared to 102 democrats. The strongest opposition came from democrats concerned about the impact on the domestic job market.

What ever other issues you have with democrats, Biden has been fantastic for manufacturing jobs. There are more factories currently under construction in this country than there have been since before the Great Depression.

Please explain why so many jobs are now being shut down?

 

[NotSilverBritches]

Here is my story so here we go. I was hired by a wire mill in 1985. I was 2 years out of high school. As I gained employment I was told if you want to get somewhere in life vote Democrat. Democrats were for unions and we were a union plant. I stayed there for 28 years of my life and I did become a Democrat. As the years rolled by I stated to notice a trend. Democrats slowly but surely was pulling away from the unions. Our union wasn’t a big one so we no longer counted. I continued to be a Democrat up until year 25 of my employment. I saw how weak the union had became so I decided to pocket my union dues and pulled out of the Union. In 2008 we noticed some upper management people walking through the plant and they finally got back to the area me and my buddies were working in. They proceeded to walk up to us and ask us if we knew why they were there. We had no idea but they were there looking at equipment to ship off to Mexico. They then told us George Bush is going to be blamed for all of this but Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and others were the cause of the problem. NAFTA was the deal that absolutely ruined manufacturing in this country and from 2009 on I have decided being a Democrat is nothing for me anymore so I changed. I can honestly say the Democrats from back in the day are nothing like what’s going on now. Pure evil is being nice to them. I wish Clinton Pelosi and whomever came up with NAFTA had it jammed up their asses sideways!! Have a Blessed Day My Friend!!

This was a little before my time but my understanding is that it started with Reagan, was negotiated by Bush 41, and submitted to Congress for ratification after the 1992 election but before Clinton took office. Clinton signed it into law.

It sounds like Trump opened it back up, but nibbled around the edges.

 

[Mark M]

This was a little before my time but my understanding is that it started with Reagan, was negotiated by Bush 41, and submitted to Congress for ratification after the 1992 election but before Clinton took office. Clinton signed it into law.

It sounds like Trump opened it back up, but nibbled around the edges.

My ? Is this? If Clinton signed it couldn’t he have vetoed it too?

 

[kckd]

This was a little before my time but my understanding is that it started with Reagan, was negotiated by Bush 41, and submitted to Congress for ratification after the 1992 election but before Clinton took office. Clinton signed it into law.

It sounds like Trump opened it back up, but nibbled around the edges.

Republicans supported it more than Democrats, though both did. Perot debated Gore over it on Larry King. Perot thought it was horrible. It definitely caused factories to shut down in my hometown. Many argue that it opened up better jobs elsewhere.

 

[NotSilverBritches]

My ? Is this? If Clinton signed it couldn’t he have vetoed it too?

No I think he was for it, but it wasn’t his baby. It doesn’t look like it was even a partisan vote. Both sides were pretty split.

 

[ABODawgsNBlack20]

You’re fine bro. The people chose who they wanted on the Republican side. The Dems wound up destroying democracy. Who is running the country since Biden has disappeared using hard working taxpayers money?

Respectfully disagree. Have a good day.

The key to Mark’s statement was that the PEOPLE chose their candidate, Trump. And not just MAGAs, but that’s how the dems like to frame it. The PEOPLE did not chose their democrat candidate. They were told that she’s the candidate. A candidate that’s a proven failure. So you can say you respectfully disagree but you are not living in reality.

 

[Mark M]

Republicans supported it more than Democrats, though both did. Perot debated Gore over it on Larry King. Perot thought it was horrible. It definitely caused factories to shut down in my hometown. Many argue that it opened up better jobs elsewhere.

Yes indeed. Many jobs picked up and moved to Mexico. I will say this. I guess it was better to pay someone 7.00 an hour compared to 20.00 an hour. That’s what I was making in 2009 when I lost my job. The company wanted me to go to Mexico and help them start things up but I deciided to stay in Georgia.

 

[Hoffman_rg]

Respectfully disagree. Have a good day.

KCKD.

I have to say I enjoy your posts on the vent and am sure I would enjoy talking UGA sports with u. But regarding the possible upcoming interview with Kamala, they will need to bring in Monty Hall who will ask the interviewer to look behind door number 1, 2, or 3 for responses.
This election is a choice between a 60 year old communist and Trump who has proven in the past to be an effective leader of the free world.

 

[kckd]

KCKD.

I have to say I enjoy your posts on the vent and am sure I would enjoy talking UGA sports with u. But regarding the possible upcoming interview with Kamala, they will need to bring in Monty Hall who will ask the interviewer to look behind door number 1, 2, or 3 for responses.
This election is a choice between a 60 year old communist and Trump who has proven in the past to be an effective leader of the free world.

Well friend, you may believe it's more important than D-day, the North victory in the Civil War, or the War for Independence. Our former President who has talked to crowds bigger than MLK believes this too. I've heard "the evil Democrats" from the time I was 18 until now. Somehow, we have survived. I just have a gut feeling if Harris wins, we'll all still be living in a democracy in four years. Just a hunch. Have a good afternoon.

 

[ToddBburn]

Well friend, you may believe it's more important than D-day, the North victory in the Civil War, or the War for Independence. Our former President who has talked to crowds bigger than MLK believes this too. I've heard "the evil Democrats" from the time I was 18 until now. Somehow, we have survived. I just have a gut feeling if Harris wins, we'll all still be living in a democracy in four years. Just a hunch. Have a good afternoon.

I think what it will be is more in line with Democratic socialism. I think you would agree with that.

 

[Hoffman_rg]

I think what it will be is more in line with Democratic socialism. I think you would agree with that.

In a socialist country, citizens slowly evolve into subjects who do and think what the State wants not independent thinkers. Nothing really democratic about it. There is always a small group of elites that prosper while the masses do their bidding.

 

[Mark M]

And now I’m seeing she wants notes for debate. If I was Trump I would tell that floozy to kick rocks. I doubt she can wipe her butt without someone helping her. And this lady wants to be Commander in Chief?? Good Lord folks we are living in Clown World it seems…

 

[Maddog_83]

The process of ratifying and implementing NAFTA started during the Reagan administration and when it was finally ratified on November 17th, 1993, 132 republicans voted for it compared to 102 democrats. The strongest opposition came from democrats concerned about the impact on the domestic job market.

What ever other issues you have with democrats, Biden has been fantastic for manufacturing jobs. There are more factories currently under construction in this country than there have been since before the Great Depression.

Any president can look good coming out of covid. Gains across the board but they might as well be artificial due to supply chain issues and finding ways to catch up. I've worked in manufacturing for 20 years. We ran better during covid than we are now.

 

[willdup]

Please explain why so many jobs are now being shut down?

I've seen this claim survive multiple fact-checks. It seems to be 100% accurate.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

The process of ratifying and implementing NAFTA started during the Reagan administration and when it was finally ratified on November 17th, 1993, 132 republicans voted for it compared to 102 democrats. The strongest opposition came from democrats concerned about the impact on the domestic job market.

What ever other issues you have with democrats, Biden has been fantastic for manufacturing jobs. There are more factories currently under construction in this country than there have been since before the Great Depression.

All so green jobs. Which is one great boondoggle. By the way government doesn’t make jobs the private sector does .

 

[Mark M]

I've seen this claim survive multiple fact-checks. It seems to be 100% accurate.

View embedded media

Yes Sir that’s all well and good but My god don’t you think they should since Republicans have only held office 4 out of the last 12 years.

 

[Mark M]

Heck it might be 4 out of the last 16 for all I lnow

 

[kckd]

Heck it might be 4 out of the last 16 for all I lnow

With Republicans, the question is what can you do to win people over? They've won the popular vote once this century...barely. And their response to that is to become even more closed off. Bush policies that were trying to reach into non white communities were crapped on by highly populated white districts. Those same districts (with their govt. representation of course) did the same to Rubio and Haley during the Obama years. It looks very much like a last stand than a real change. A desperate holding on to the bitter end that has produced a very weak candidate. A time where if they had a really good one, could see something like Reagan/Bush for 12 years or so.

Will the Republicans recover? Will this produce a third party?

 

[cherrydawg]

I've seen this claim survive multiple fact-checks. It seems to be 100% accurate.

View embedded media

oh yes, snopes et al are all on the up and up. SMH

 

[Mark M]

With Republicans, the question is what can you do to win people over? They've won the popular vote once this century...barely. And their response to that is to become even more closed off. Bush policies that were trying to reach into non white communities were crapped on by highly populated white districts. Those same districts (with their govt. representation of course) did the same to Rubio and Haley during the Obama years. It looks very much like a last stand than a real change. A desperate holding on to the bitter end that has produced a very weak candidate. A time where if they had a really good one, could see something like Reagan/Bush for 12 years or so.

Will the Republicans recover? Will this produce a third party?

If our economy doesn’t change I have my doubts that anyone will be left. The cost of living is totally Outrageous. I can only pray

 

[kckd]

If our economy doesn’t change I have my doubts that anyone will be left. The cost of living is totally Outrageous. I can only pray

Presidential control over economies is overrated. Most of the layoffs of late are coming half from fear of a recession, but also half from AI. The AI part, a POTUS has no control over whatsoever.

We had bad economies under both Bush POTUS by the time they left office. It was a much bigger problem than just them just as it is with Biden. And yet, I'll guarantee most on here who were of age to vote during the Bush presidencies would say that HW and W were better than Clinton and Obama. We just argue whatever suits our side at the moment. Both parties do this.

Meanwhile,

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/d...-good-is-good-again-for-stock-market-ebb6a4f3

 

[atlanta cock#]

I've seen this claim survive multiple fact-checks. It seems to be 100% accurate.

View embedded media

Rattner. 🙄

Should I start quoting Hannity around here? Same thing.

 

[willdup]

Rattner. 🙄

Should I start quoting Hannity around here? Same thing.

He shared a chart that shows that since the Bush I administration, Democratic administrations have created 50m jobs to Republicans’s 1m. Regardless of who it came from, is that not accurate?

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

He shared a chart that shows that since the Bush I administration, Democratic administrations have created 50m jobs to Republicans’s 1m. Regardless of who it came from, is that not accurate?

You would think that folks would be really pumped about the state of the economy, no?

Also - if you want to clearly and dishonestly tout trump’s job “losses” due to COVID shutdowns. Shutdowns that ultimately he was against and was vilified as a murderer for months, along w Kemp, Desantis, etc. And then count the simple re-hiring of those folks as “Biden jobs”. Then let’s also tout the “record 30%+ GDP in Trump’s final quarter” as evidence a Trump Presidency would bring similar growth.

You will no doubt respond with a troll quality “tell me where the stats are wrong” while knowing exactly the point I am making. Weak.

Biden has been a disaster for the Economy. The 2T second stimulus on strict party lines was criminal. Gas on an existing inflation small fire that got us where we are.

But by all means let’s keep our economy in the hands of social warriors and academics instead of folks who actually have built something in the real world.

When an entire party defines success as passing any legislation whatsoever that spends money, no matter what it is spent on or if it is needed. That is a problem.

 

[willdup]

You would think that folks would be really pumped about the state of the economy, no?

Also - if you want to clearly and dishonestly tout trump’s job “losses” due to COVID shutdowns. Shutdowns that ultimately he was against and was vilified as a murderer for months, along w Kemp, Desantis, etc. And then count the simple re-hiring of those folks as “Biden jobs”. Then let’s also tout the “record 30%+ GDP in Trump’s final quarter” as evidence a Trump Presidency would bring similar growth.

You will no doubt respond with a troll quality “tell me where the stats are wrong” while knowing exactly the point I am making. Weak.

Biden has been a disaster for the Economy. The 2T second stimulus on strict party lines was criminal. Gas on an existing inflation small fire that got us where we are.

But by all means let’s keep our economy in the hands of social warriors and academics instead of folks who actually have built something in the real world.

When an entire party defines success as passing any legislation whatsoever that spends money, no matter what it is spent on or if it is needed. That is a problem.

Edit: Had to fix the math.

I didn't dishonestly tout anything. I posted a statistic. Sorry if you don't care for the numbers.

As a thought exercise, let's pretend 2020 and 2021 never happened. That adds 9.2m to the GOP figure and subtracts 6.4m from the Dem tally.

That still results in 10.2m new jobs under the GOP Since Bush I and 43.6m for the Dems.

To be fair, that is four, four-year periods for the GOP and almost five for the Dems. So let's be generous and award another 5m jobs to the GOP and subtract the same from the Dems. That's somewhat random, but this is after all a thought exercise, and I am trying to compare apples to apples.

That takes us to 15.2m for the GOP and 38.6m for the Dems. That's well more than a 2x difference in favor of the Dems.

Feel better now?

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Edit: Had to fix the math.

I didn't dishonestly tout anything. I posted a statistic. Sorry if you don't care for the numbers.

As a thought exercise, let's pretend 2020 and 2021 never happened. That adds 9.2m to the GOP figure and subtracts 6.4m from the Dem tally.

That still results in 10.2m new jobs under the GOP Since Bush I and 43.6m for the Dems.

To be fair, that is four, four-year periods for the GOP and almost five for the Dems. So let's be generous and award another 5m jobs to the GOP and subtract the same from the Dems. That's somewhat random, but this is after all a thought exercise, and I am trying to compare apples to apples.

That takes us to 15.2m for the GOP and 38.6m for the Dems. That's well more than a 2x difference in favor of the Dems.

Feel better now?

Your response was exactly as I expected. Dishonesty is in the point you are making with the statistics, leaving out the obvious. Very trollish.

Clinton - I'll give him credit for being a good president on the economy. The last democrat that didn't villify corporations and promote government spending above all else.

Bush - The GFC was nasty. Could make the argument that more government oversight could have prevented it, but ultimately the stupidity of borrowers, securitized lending at high leverage to unqualified folks, and terrible underwriting created a fake economy.....and it crashed.

Obama - had he embraced private enterprise, the recovery from the GFC would have yielded so many more jobs. Growth was anemic compared to recoveries from previous recessions.

Trump - had the economy humming. Even Obama economists like Jason Furman as much as admitted he would cruise to re-election given the unprecedented economic prosperity paritularly at the low income levels.

Biden - There is a reason he polls so poorly on the economy. If you don't work for the government, or big Tech, it has been tough sledding. Most of all for the income class that the democrats supposedly represent.

It really isn't that hard. Open markets, competition, and government getting the hell out of the way works. And this is why Trump polls multiples better than the current admin on the economy.

 

[willdup]

Your response was exactly as I expected. Dishonesty is in the point you are making with the statistics, leaving out the obvious. Very trollish.

Clinton - I'll give him credit for being a good president on the economy. The last democrat that didn't villify corporations and promote government spending above all else.

Bush - The GFC was nasty. Could make the argument that more government oversight could have prevented it, but ultimately the stupidity of borrowers, securitized lending at high leverage to unqualified folks, and terrible underwriting created a fake economy.....and it crashed.

Obama - had he embraced private enterprise, the recovery from the GFC would have yielded so many more jobs. Growth was anemic compared to recoveries from previous recessions.

Trump - had the economy humming. Even Obama economists like Jason Furman as much as admitted he would cruise to re-election given the unprecedented economic prosperity paritularly at the low income levels.

Biden - There is a reason he polls so poorly on the economy. If you don't work for the government, or big Tech, it has been tough sledding. Most of all for the income class that the democrats supposedly represent.

It really isn't that hard. Open markets, competition, and government getting the hell out of the way works. And this is why Trump polls multiples better than the current admin on the economy.

Open markets and government getting the hell out of the way is what led directly to the GFC, which was in no way simply a "recession". Clinton owns part of the blame for signing the repeal of Glass Steagell ending the prohibition on banks mixing their deposit and trading operations, a classic example of the catastrophic outcomes that are possible when government gets entirely out of the way and capitalism is allowed to reign free.

The GFC was a combination of a debt and banking crises that came very close to plunging the global economy into a depression that would have rivaled or surpassed the Great Depression. Bernanke and Paulson should get primary credit for understanding how bad the situation was, and the radical intervention needed to prevent the wheels from coming off entirely.

Obama and Geitner get credit for taking the steps to stretch out the economic pain we had to suffer to get to the other side. This made the pain frustrating but tolerable while saving, for example, the domestic auto industry.

Trump did not create "unprecedented economic prosperity" by any measure other than the unemployment levels, which were the continuation of a downward trendline inherited from Obama and which Biden has reached post-covid. In fact, every major economic indicator was moving in a positive direction when Trump took office, and he juiced them further by a massive tax cut that increased the deficit and primarily benefitted the very wealthy.

Again, sorry you don't care for the numbers I shared. Perhaps if they require so much explanation for why they don't tell the story they seem to tell, it might not be that compelling an argument you are making.

EDIT: Timely commentary from JP Morgan. I'll await the lengthy exploration of all the reasons this doesn't matter.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Open markets and government getting the hell out of the way is what led directly to the GFC, which was in no way simply a "recession". Clinton owns part of the blame for signing the repeal of Glass Steagell ending the prohibition on banks mixing their deposit and trading operations, a classic example of the catastrophic outcomes that are possible when government gets entirely out of the way and capitalism is allowed to reign free.

The GFC was a combination of a debt and banking crises that came very close to plunging the global economy into a depression that would have rivaled or surpassed the Great Depression. Bernanke and Paulson should get primary credit for understanding how bad the situation was, and the radical intervention needed to prevent the wheels from coming off entirely.

Obama and Geitner get credit for taking the steps to stretch out the economic pain we had to suffer to get to the other side. This made the pain frustrating but tolerable while saving, for example, the domestic auto industry.

Trump did not create "unprecedented economic prosperity" by any measure other than the unemployment levels, which were the continuation of a downward trendline inherited from Obama and which Biden has reached post-covid. In fact, every major economic indicator was moving in a positive direction when Trump took office, and he juiced them further by a massive tax cut that increased the deficit and primarily benefitted the very wealthy.

Again, sorry you don't care for the numbers I shared. Perhaps if they require so much explanation for why they don't tell the story they seem to tell, it might not be that compelling an argument you are making.

EDIT: Timely commentary from JP Morgan. I'll await the lengthy exploration of all the reasons this doesn't matter.

View embedded media

Agreed on the need for some guardrails from government on businesses, and the GFC is a good exhibit A. But there is a huuuuge middle ground between sarbanes oxley and the total vilification of “greedy corporations”, an FTC that shuts down all M&A activity, and targeting 1.5 percent margin grocery stores instead of cool tech companies that pocket 40 percent margins.

I don’t give Obama credit for using taxpayer dollars to bouy the economy. Some was needed to avoid disaster but the starting point was so low post GFC we should have grown much more during the recovery.

The most important Trump tax cut was the corporate tax cut which made the Us much more competitive and stopped the offshoring of so much American business. It is a big reason why the American economy has outperformed others in terms of GDP post Covid. If these were such terrible policies why didn’t Biden reverse them when he had the house and senate?

Bottom line - in any category that matters to the majority of Americans, the economy sucks. And the US exported much of the world’s inflation, as our economy, the dollar, and fiscal / monetary policy is the main driver for most of the rest of the world’s economy.

Don’t ask me. Ask the polls. Americans know that Trump economy was so much better.