Masks irrefutably made no difference

[Bells76]

I've said from the very beginning that once the post-pandemic studies began to emerge we'd learn the government-imposed mitigation strategies not only didn't work, but often exacerbated other health problems. Daily vindication continues to roll in.

Every American should see the two graphs accompanying this article. The first graph in this article compares the number of COVID cases between the eleven states never mandated masks, against the other 39 states which enforced mandates. The 2nd graph is a comparison of COVID-assigned deaths between Sweden, with a 2%-9% mask compliance to Germany, with a, 80%-86% rate of mask compliance.

Despite this so much of this evidence, Biden still wants to challenge the ruling which stuck down the airline/travel mask mandate.

https://www.city-journal.org/the-failed-covid-policy-of-mask-mandates

 

[ugaboz]

why are dems so hell bent on this thing
thats all they think about is fing mask and covid

 

[Bells76]

why are dems so hell bent on this thing
thats all they think about is fing mask and covid

We have seen such a massive uptick in govt. power centralization, resulting in an unprecedented assault on our rights. The progressives live for this type of behavior and they just cant let go of it and hold onto it for dear life

 

[MaitlandFloridaDawg]

I've said from the very beginning that once the post-pandemic studies began to emerge we'd learn the government-imposed mitigation strategies not only didn't work, but often exacerbated other health problems. Daily vindication continues to roll in.

Every American should see the two graphs accompanying this article. The first graph in this article compares the number of COVID cases between the eleven states never mandated masks, against the other 39 states which enforced mandates. The 2nd graph is a comparison of COVID-assigned deaths between Sweden, with a 2%-9% mask compliance to Germany, with a, 80%-86% rate of mask compliance.

Despite this so much of this evidence, Biden still wants to challenge the ruling which stuck down the airline/travel mask mandate.

https://www.city-journal.org/the-failed-covid-policy-of-mask-mandates

The picture below might help explain why democrats would want to cover their faces.

 

[stray]

The picture below might help explain why democrats would want to cover their faces.

 

[willdup]

I've said from the very beginning that once the post-pandemic studies began to emerge we'd learn the government-imposed mitigation strategies not only didn't work, but often exacerbated other health problems. Daily vindication continues to roll in.

Every American should see the two graphs accompanying this article. The first graph in this article compares the number of COVID cases between the eleven states never mandated masks, against the other 39 states which enforced mandates. The 2nd graph is a comparison of COVID-assigned deaths between Sweden, with a 2%-9% mask compliance to Germany, with a, 80%-86% rate of mask compliance.

Despite this so much of this evidence, Biden still wants to challenge the ruling which stuck down the airline/travel mask mandate.

https://www.city-journal.org/the-failed-covid-policy-of-mask-mandates

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

 

[stray]

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

Fair enough, let's weed out the population density part of the argument. FL has a slightly higher population density than NY, yet FL had a much lower death rate and when adjusted for age it's an even bigger difference.

States Ranked by Age-Adjusted COVID Deaths

Cumulative age-adjusted COVID deaths per capita by state, updated weekly. The Pacific Northwest, Hawaii, and Upper New England have fewer COVID deaths.

www.bioinformaticscro.com

 

[willdup]

Fair enough, let's weed out the population density part of the argument. FL has a slightly higher population density than NY, yet FL had a much lower death rate and when adjusted for age it's an even bigger difference.

States Ranked by Age-Adjusted COVID Deaths

Cumulative age-adjusted COVID deaths per capita by state, updated weekly. The Pacific Northwest, Hawaii, and Upper New England have fewer COVID deaths.

www.bioinformaticscro.com

Still way too many variables.

• What about the impact on behaviour of the significantly different climates? Did people in FL spend more time outside and did that impact cases?
• What about the fact that the average age in FL is 42 and the average age in NY is 36.7? Did the significantly older population in FL exercise greater caution through voluntary mask usage or more isolation due to the increased risk that comes with age?

I don't know the answers to these questions and neither do you. Scientific studies account for a multitude of factors so that results answer for these and similar questions. As I said, there are studies that support both sides of this debate but anecdotal comparisons don't help anyone.

Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

Researchers found that surgical masks impede the spread of COVID-19 and that just a few, low-cost interventions increase mask-wearing compliance.

med.stanford.edu

 

[Dawgs-Fan]

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

Suprisingly, Stockholm/no masks has a higher population density (944 people, per sq mi) than NYC/masks 357 people, per sq mi). Stockholm had 52% less deaths, per million population than NYC.

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

Why did you fly without a mask when China is under lockdown and Fauci is concerned about a coming uptick in cases?

Do you feel that the new surge is as mild as Omnicron or do you trust your immunity?

Serious question, no snark from me here.

 

[willdup]

Suprisingly, Stockholm/no masks has a higher population density (944 people, per sq mi) than NYC/masks 357 people, per sq mi). Stockholm had 52% less deaths, per million population than NYC.

And yet Sweden had a significantly higher death rate than their Nordic neighbors, which is perhaps a better comparison (although still not a scientifically validated comparison).

Scathing evaluation of Sweden's COVID response reveals 'failures' to control the virus

A scathing review has been released evaluating the policies that guided Sweden’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

abcnews.go.com

 

[stray]

Suprisingly, Stockholm/no masks has a higher population density (944 people, per sq mi) than NYC/masks 357 people, per sq mi). Stockholm had 52% less deaths, per million population than NYC.

Yeah, but Stockholm starts with an S and New York doesn't. Also, they speak Swedish in Stockholm. They didn't account for these variables so this study is bunk.

 

[stray]

Still way too many variables.

• What about the impact on behaviour of the significantly different climates? Did people in FL spend more time outside and did that impact cases?
• What about the fact that the average age in FL is 42 and the average age in NY is 36.7? Did the significantly older population in FL exercise greater caution through voluntary mask usage or more isolation due to the increased risk that comes with age?

I don't know the answers to these questions and neither do you. Scientific studies account for a multitude of factors so that results answer for these and similar questions. As I said, there are studies that support both sides of this debate but anecdotal comparisons don't help anyone.

Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

Researchers found that surgical masks impede the spread of COVID-19 and that just a few, low-cost interventions increase mask-wearing compliance.

med.stanford.edu

Soooo....locking people down in their homes could account for more transmission? OK, that means the other ideas they used didn't work either.
The stats I showed you were adjusted for age and even adjusted for age FL did even better than not adjusted.
Even if your argument is older people in FL voluntarily wore masks you certainly wouldn't argue that people in FL wore masks at a higher rate than NY would you?

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

Still way too many variables.

• What about the impact on behaviour of the significantly different climates? Did people in FL spend more time outside and did that impact cases?
• What about the fact that the average age in FL is 42 and the average age in NY is 36.7? Did the significantly older population in FL exercise greater caution through voluntary mask usage or more isolation due to the increased risk that comes with age?

I don't know the answers to these questions and neither do you. Scientific studies account for a multitude of factors so that results answer for these and similar questions. As I said, there are studies that support both sides of this debate but anecdotal comparisons don't help anyone.

Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

Researchers found that surgical masks impede the spread of COVID-19 and that just a few, low-cost interventions increase mask-wearing compliance.

med.stanford.edu

FWIW, I asked back in 2020 why it was thought as a wise move to set policy based on unknowns rather than knowns.

Human beings have survived with a lot more unknowns than we have now by focusing on what they did know. Why did we change that fundamental premise of decision making for Covid-19?

In simple terms, lockdowns and restrictions were a failed attempt at pausing the world while figuring things out. Over 2 years later we don't have any new answers, just shots that could benefit the most vulnerable who can take them (some people can't) and continued calls for masking.

 

[willdup]

Why did you fly without a mask when China is under lockdown and Fauci is concerned about a coming uptick in cases?

Do you feel that the new surge is as mild as Omnicron or do you trust your immunity?

Serious question, no snark from me here.

In the last three weeks I took my family to San Diego/Palm Springs for spring break, then they joined me at a conference in Phoenix where they relaxed while I worked. We are all vaxed, the case rates in CA and AZ are low, and we made the decision to let it fly. In Phoenix, I interacted with about three hundred co-workers, indoors and unmasked (although we do have a universal vaccine requirement for employees). Six people did end up testing positive for covid at or after the conference but not any of the people I spent most of my time with.

I have multiple trips coming up including Germany. I will watch case rates wherever I am spending time and may change mask behaviour accordingly. I am also considering a second booster but haven't quite gotten there yet.

The thing about masking is I believe to be truly effective it is somewhat of an all or none proposition. If you are sick it can protect others but if others are sick and unmasked it won't do much for you.

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

In the last three weeks I took my family to San Diego/Palm Springs for spring break, then they joined me at a conference in Phoenix where they relaxed while I worked. We are all vaxed, the case rates in CA and AZ are low, and we made the decision to let it fly. In Phoenix, I interacted with about three hundred co-workers, indoors and unmasked (although we do have a universal vaccine requirement for employees). Six people did end up testing positive for covid at or after the conference but not any of the people I spent most of my time with.

I have multiple trips coming up including Germany. I will watch case rates wherever I am spending time and may change mask behaviour accordingly. I am also considering a second booster but haven't quite gotten there yet.

The thing about masking is I believe to be truly effective it is somewhat of an all or none proposition. If you are sick it can protect others but if others are sick and unmasked it won't do much for you.

Solid.

So would you say you stance on masking is more about not rocking the boat as far as willingness to wear them when required but when given the choice you're comfortable making the best decision for yourself?

Also, how do you feel about natural immunity today?

 

[willdup]

Yeah, but Stockholm starts with an S and New York doesn't. Also, they speak Swedish in Stockholm. They didn't account for these variables so this study is bunk.

The average person in Stockholm is also significantly more attractive than in NY, and we all know what that means...

Seriously though, have you been there? That is a ridiculously active and healthy country. Obesity must exist, but I never saw the evidence.

 

[willdup]

Solid.

So would you say you stance on masking is more about not rocking the boat as far as willingness to wear them when required but when given the choice you're comfortable making the best decision for yourself?

Also, how do you feel about natural immunity today?

Interesting question. In the airport and Sky Club Tuesday I would say slightly less than half the people I saw were wearing masks. That was day one so I'm guessing that number will drop.

There isn't much point if you are healthy in wearing a mask if most others aren't. If I am sitting on a plane next to someone wearing a mask and they seem stressed, I might wear one out of courtesy as it doesn't matter to me that much either way. I have no idea what the policy will be on the way to or in Germany but I will report back.

I think natural immunity offers some protection just as the vaccine does. The longer period of time after immunity (or vaccine) the less effective the protection.

 

[Pugknows]

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

Science and data matter? Hmmm. Novel concept. Tell that to 70 million dead babies and a nation full of parents who have to sit back while boys crap in girls bathrooms.

 

[Bells76]

Progressives and science. Bwahahaha!

 

[anon_03j5dr7l9qs90]

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

Proud of you.

 

[poochpup]

why are dems so hell bent on this thing
thats all they think about is fing mask and covid

C•O•N•T•O•L from the lib gov. And blind allegiance come hell or high water for the minions regardless of any info to the contrary.

 

[poorpreacher]

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

I appreciate your last sentence, in particular. To me, conflicting information, regardless of the topic, is what makes respectful debate very difficult today.

"Do your research" people say, and post links to an article or study that establishes their point. But another person posts a study, with a conflicting opinion.

Pick just about any issue you want: There is probably a study by a university, or doctor, that came to a conclusion we agree with.

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

I appreciate your last sentence, in particular. To me, conflicting information, regardless of the topic, is what makes respectful debate very difficult today.

"Do your research" people say, and post links to an article or study that establishes their point. But another person posts a study, with a conflicting opinion.

Pick just about any issue you want: There is probably a study by a university, or doctor, that came to a conclusion we agree with.

Plenty of incorrect studies floating around out there which is why a cornerstone of science is to put findings to scrutiny.

The silencing of voices and debate based on politics is all that's necessary to identify the agents of evil in this world.

How can people claim to follow the science while attempting to silence others?

Respectful debate goes a long way. Rigging the game to favor one viewpoint without challenge is nothing more than pushing agenda.

 

[adam17]

Not really. A proper scientific study accounts for variables and often includes a control group. Neither graph accounts for anything other than mask mandates and covid deaths. One huge factor that is absent from either graph is the population density of the countries or states under consideration.

I'd be willing to bet the population density in the states with mandates is considerably higher than the states without mandates. I can state with certainty that the population density of Germany is almost 10x the population density of Sweden. There are a multitude of other factors that could impact the validity of a comparative analysis.

Look, I flew Tuesday without a mask so I'm not some crazed mask nazi. But science and data matter. There are study-based arguments both for and against masks, but your linked article does not contribute to the debate.

Read the side of a box of ear loop masks and it specifically states that they do not protect against covid.