Old Cher, the guy who is a civilized gentleman among the rift raft. Stays on the topic. Never gets personal.
NEW: Bombshell Hearing Set, Three D.C. National Guard Officers to Expose January 6th Committee
- Thread starter doerunn
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Let me ask you a question. What could he do at that point. You and others say this all the time. Like it is some badge of honor. He did tweet for them to go home. It isn’t like you can get a film crew and get on tv in five minutes either. Plus, what good what it have done. None. Do you think once they breached the capital these guys were going to stop what they are doing and find a tv. Oh wait, we are breaking a huge law let’s watch some Seinfeld. As much as it looked like a tour for three fourths of the people there, no one was stopping to watch a tv. Was word going to travel in time after he said go home, for the whole thing to stop. Hell no. It didn’t last that long to begin with. When the woman got shot it was over. That is common sense. Let’s go break into the capital, find a tv, and make sure we hear what Trump says about it. For optics, Trump saying go home a little earlier is great, but it didn’t stop the summer of riots when a few Dems condemned the violence. Biden telling Iran “don’t” didnt help. Despite him giving them ten billion dollars. I think that is the most overrated narrative ever.
That was investigated. There was no collusion. There probably was obstruction of justice. Why try to cover up a crime you didn't commit? Who knows? It's Trump. Trump was not impeached over it. There was no mob that tried to remove him from office.
The whole reason he was investigated was at least partially due to his own lies about his closeness to Putin and comments about him hoping he would interfere with the election. No one in Congress is claiming he colluded with the Russians that I'm aware of. Trump is still claiming the election was stolen. It was investigated as well. No evidence was found.
They tried to stop the passing of leadership from one President to another. He wanted them to do it. He was glad they tried. Common sense would tell anyone this.
I don't know what to tell you. That's a big deal. What could he do? He could have been shocked at what they were doing. He could have said "I didn't intend this. Please go home now." He was asked to speak out long before and did not. They were doing it for him. Many said this. Many said they were going on his orders. Maybe you say he didn't order them there, but they thought he did. So if he tells them to stop, then maybe they listen.
He wanted them to do what they did. That should be enough unless.....
you also think they should have done it. If you don't, I don't know what to say. We are about to put someone back in office that tried to get state election officials to lie for him and was okay with people assaulting Capitol police officers and breaking into the Capitol. According to his own people when they told him that crowd was chanting "Hang Pence", he said "Maybe he deserves it."
I get it. Dems are the evil demons. Anything is better. But at this point, I'd just say this two party system has worked its black magic.
Would it have stopped if he went on camera earlier? No. Did he plan it? No. Did he run his mouth and get people lathered up. Yes.
You can indirectly blame him for sure, but all of this other stuff is straight bs. Don’t move the goalpost now. Both parties are evil. I am a middle guy so I can play both sides. I am Just calling a spade a spade. It is a bullshit narrative. I am sick of people saying if he went on tv earlier it would have stopped. No. It wouldn’t have. You know I am right or you don’t change the topic and move the goalposts.
Honestly, he thought his followers to the capital would protest. Peacefully. But just like the left, the extremist took over and it turned into a shit show. Which is why he conceded the next day. He can’t condemn them. Despite being stupid enough to stoop to the level of the summer riots.
How you feeling. Peace everywhere right. Inflation cranked up again. Fake job reports. Paying for Iran to start wars. And paying Israel to keep them from getting hurt by it. And paying the Ukraine to keep their mouths shut. Nothing to see here
This is not moving the goal posts.
He wanted them to stop that vote. You can say he didn't try to get them to do it. You can say that he couldn't have stopped them.
But it would take complete denial of common sense to think Donald Trump was horrified at what that crowd was doing. He wanted them to do it.
It is also throwing common sense out the window to say he wasn't trying to get he vote changed by other means with his own cabinet members telling him he lost. I know you didn't care about the hearings. One thing I noticed was that there were only a few Democrats (I'm assuming they were) that were called to testify. Almost everyone of the FBI men (those who investigated the Trump claims of voter fraud in several areas) were almost assuredly Republican voters. One of them had been a politician in the past and ran for office as a Republican. This was not by coincidence. They tried to only call Republicans for a reason. You'd have to believe that every one of these Republicans wanted to lie about Trump. But why?
Again, Trump wanted the passing of power not to occur despite the fact that the people voted and wanted him out. The only democracies that such happens in are not real democracies.
The idea that Russia would haven't invaded Ukraine or Hamas wouldn't have terrorized Israel if Trump were in office is just not reality. Russia may not have, but it would have only been in hopes Trump would weaken NATO further to make it easier to invade. Hamas doesn't care who our POTUS is. I read conservative papers. I have not read this stuff you're saying in your last paragraph. US sends money to other countries and has for a long, long time with both parties serving terms in the White House as they did it.
Good grief, what a stretch. You libs turn into pretzels getting around the truth.
"You libs. You libs" You just can't help yourselves.
That is a different topic. And no i don’t believe he thought guys would breach the capital. You avoided my questions. As usual. I responded to your op about him trying to go on tv and stop it. You know that seems a little idiotic now so you moved to something else. Another way to blame him for something. I really wished he wasn’t a candidate, but you guys will literally blame him for everything. Doesn’t matter. And give him zero credit. It is crazy. I have said a million times here I know what he is. I damn sure know what Biden is. Although it is hard to tell at times. He opinion has changed so much it is completely insane. Like in 08 he called sanctuary cities dumps.
Inflation has been reported to be cranking up again. There is no rate relief in sight. We had peace in the Middle East during someone’s term, and at least you can admit Russia likely doesn’t attack the Ukraine if Biden isn’t in office. Trump isn’t a savior. He is not a good person, but his policy has shown to be solid. Biden’s have not.
If you have looked thru the posts currently on this page. One has no responses. Yet it has a document where fraud in ga was found. In may it will come out in a hearing. I will wait and see on that, but the document is really hard to argue. I have never claimed election fraud. Shenanigans and taking advantage of the rules. But it looks like here in ga it may have happened.
Bunch of effing idiots rolled into the capitol on J6. Full stop. The attempt to call it some kind of attempt to overthrow the United States Government is more embarrassing than the jackasses who entered the capitol.
I like my Presidents to be effective leaders, even if they are assholes.
I agree. A group of gun rights activists ran up on the capital with no guns whatsoever. One guy did get in trouble for leaving one in his car and not taking it with him. Pretty sad attempt. If they can’t fight for the right to use their guns in an insurrection, what the hell is the point.
The only rift raft is the one here instigating. I return the favor. You are always the starter and instigator. I know you can't help yourself. Its all you got. Always with the gif's meant to ridicule. Obviously you come from the participation trophy era and where not made to behave and get along well with others.
I'm pretty sure if we do a count you have called me many more names and made many more digs than I have. All I have for you is that you sir, are an arrogant smart mouth. Those 2 things only... oh and if you consider being called an aid to those trying to destroy the country,,, (letist) then I guess that's 3.
I'm not your bruh or any other thing you spout trying to agitate and denigrate me. I'm not lil, I am angry because I don't like one bit what the left that you aid is doing to the country. NO one should try to help brandon and the dims stay in power. Thats exactly like pointing a loaded gun at your head and pulling the trigger. Trump in spite of his faults is the only choice we have. Sad? Yes, but the only choice non the less. Now if you want to put a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger have at it. But stop with the propaganda spreading to try and confuse those that are easily manipulated.
Man you sure have an active imagination. Someone had to have told you that because I have never seen that written anywhere.
Regarding no collusion but obstruction:
https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/
Regarding not being impeached for collusion:
The first impeachment had to do with trying to dig up dirt on Biden by threatening to withhold military aid and a WH visit from Zelensky if he didn't help. It was then claimed Trump tried to obstruct the investigation. This had nothing to do with Russian collusion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_impeachment_of_Donald_Trump
The second impeachment had to do with Trump trying to stop Joe Biden from taking office after being legally elected to the Presidency. This also had nothing to do with Russian collusion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_impeachment_of_Donald_Trump
As far as a mob that tried to forcibly remove Trump from office or tried to prevent him from carrying out his duties as POTUS, I can't find that. If you can from a reliable source, I will yield. But that's never really been reported by anyone that I know of, so it's kind of hard to find a source refuting it since it has not been reported anywhere.
A mob did try to prevent Joe Biden from becoming president.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack
Trump would always speak well of Putin in 2015 interviews. He would never admit to having met him or having spoken to him. He would also not deny it, either. But in doing so, it was obvious he wanted the viewers to believe he had and would make things better with Russia if he were POTUS.
He later in one interview said he had met him many years before.
He then continued to not answer whether he had met or had not met him.
He then talked about being stablemates with him on 60 minutes and being on 60 minutes together, he got to know him well.
Then once the calendar turned over to 2016 and it was looking like he had a real chance to win the Republican nomination, he continued to praise him, but denied ever meeting him or having business dealings with him in Russia.
There were plenty of links between Trump's campaign and Putin and Russia.
I don't think there was ever clear evidence Trump, himself, colluded with Russia. But Trump was more than happy to get their help.
https://thehill.com/policy/national...eaways-from-final-senate-intel-russia-report/
One of the great conservative pundits. Sadly, he passed away not long after writing this.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2017/feb/18/charles-krauthammer-a-cover-up-in-search-of-a-crim/
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And let's not forget about this and two things: 1) Manfort at the time was Trumps campaign manager...pretty big deal if him being compromised by the Russians 2) This is from the Republican led Senate Select Committee not a Dem witch hunt.
"Russia used Republican political operative Paul Manafort and the WikiLeaks website to try to help now-U.S. President Donald Trump win the 2016 election, a Republican-led Senate committee said in its final review of the matter on Tuesday."
"The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence alleged Manafort collaborated with Russians, including oligarch Oleg Deripaska and "Russian intelligence officer" Konstantin Kilimnik, before, during, and after the election.
The panel found Manafort's role and proximity to Trump created opportunities for Russian intelligence, saying his "high-level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services... represented a grave counterintelligence threat."
Only issue here. The fbi spent 40 million of mine and your money going after him. Got nothing. It was so bad their smoking gun courtesy of spying from Obama and Killary turned out to be two guys discussing formations from a girls soccer game.
The fbi even offered 1 million dollars to several people just to provide proof of any kind. None could be found. (A bribe)
An investigation occurred afterward of fbi conduct during this Russia issue. This turned real bad for the fbi. They had to admit they over pursued Trump when nothing was there. We have already made changes to address this issues was the tag line.
Which is such a brilliant move now everyone believes the doj is out to get anyone and everyone on the right. Their actions since then haven’t changed one bit. The doj have a ton of folks losing jobs if Trump is elected. They are more desperate than ever.
In the meantime, the fbi buried the hunter laptop which probably changed the last election results. There is that. It is also ironic that the left always ask for proof of election fraud. Yet the fbi admitted none existed here. Still not enough. So little proof, the fbi had to apologize
The fbi even offered 1 million dollars to several people just to provide proof of any kind. None could be found. (A bribe)
An investigation occurred afterward of fbi conduct during this Russia issue. This turned real bad for the fbi. They had to admit they over pursued Trump when nothing was there. We have already made changes to address this issues was the tag line.
Which is such a brilliant move now everyone believes the doj is out to get anyone and everyone on the right. Their actions since then haven’t changed one bit. The doj have a ton of folks losing jobs if Trump is elected. They are more desperate than ever.
In the meantime, the fbi buried the hunter laptop which probably changed the last election results. There is that. It is also ironic that the left always ask for proof of election fraud. Yet the fbi admitted none existed here. Still not enough. So little proof, the fbi had to apologize
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I agree on some of the things with the FBI. Just like with the police, if a guy is guilty prove it. No need to plant evidence, etc.
But the idea that this was just all made up and no reason to even think there were ties between Trump, his campaign and Putin/Russians was naive considering what was being said and was discovered.
Police have to investigate and clear suspects for a reason. Trump encouraged this and then acted as if all of this came up out of the blue. It's like telling the police you were with a murder victim an hour before they were killed with som scratches on your hands and face, but crying because they are questioning you.
I am sure there are connections. And it isn’t just from Trump. You don’t think Obama, Hillary(the bs Steele dossier is full of really bad connections) and Biden don’t have connections. Biden’s family members are on company boards all over the world. You can’t have it both ways. Say prove it with election fraud. Or the biden crime family robbing companies worldwide. You know it occurred. Everyone knows what happened. The rules changed. 22 million more people voted during a pandemic. People weren’t seeing each other for thanksgiving and Christmas at the time, but voted in higher numbers than ever in the history of elections from one to the next. By 300 percent. You ask someone with tds they say prove it. Won’t even entertain the thought. You are that guy. It is at least worth examining the rules and seeing how they were obviously taken advantage of. I am not even claiming the results would change. But the 20 election was a clusterf. No getting around that.
I appreciate you meeting more in the middle here. The fbi tried to prove Russian interference and collusion with Trump. All stated, they found next to nothing. I have said before the doc case is the one case where he may be in trouble. The rest is just political crap. I wish he wasn’t the nominee. But he is. At the same time, there is no way to look at the doj, Biden and these da’s aand not think a boatload of crooked shit is going on with them too. Unless you are willing to look away.
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So are you saying all of this is nothing that it didn't deserve an investigation
Also what are the crimes the Biden family has committed...the GOP has had 2 years to investigate and present evidence of criminal activity and to date they've presented none. A non-biased person would take that as evidence that there never was a crime.
The gop has turned up plenty of $hit on Joe. And they will turn it over to the DOJ, who unfortunately will do nothing. Hopefully Trump's DOJ will.
Ok. What didn’t deserve investigation? Asking? Durham determined after two weeks it was clear that there was nothing worth pursuing on Trump. 40 million later and bribes offered. Still the same result. I think it deserved to be looked into, but the fbi already admitted over stepping to try to nail Trump. That is a fact and can’t be argued.
My whole point is proof. Kckd offered no proof in his op I responded too. You guys always ask for election fraud proof, then not expect the same from the other side.
Here is the proof out there for the Biden’s. The Biden crime family took money. For favors. They had no value other than their name. That has been determined. Bobulisnki pretty much put the nail in that coffin. He is a navy guy. Hunter and Joe ran from any hearing with him. Will anything come of it. Who knows, but there is enough there with shell company proof of money received by James and hunter. That is a fact. Why have shell companies and be secret it on the up and up. Common sense says at least James and hunter are guilty of something. We know by bobulinski that Joe absolutely knew and spent time with hunter and James business partners. We also know that Joe said he had no contact whatsoever with these people. That has been proven an outright lie from Joe. We know at the very least he has seen them. Hung out with them. And talked on the phone with them.
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I didnt know "Guilty of something" was a legal definition. All any liberal on this board has asked for are the specific criminal acts Biden is guilt of
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what specific crime and criminal act Hunter or Joe are guilty of.
Oh I agree...
Just tired of seeing "common sense says" as if it's gospel. That's not how it works. Need evidence. Innocent until guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Just like everyone else.
I tend to think "IF" Trump wins in November the FBI and the DOJ under Trump will connect the dots on the money flow from China and Ukraine thur the shell companies to the Bidens. I suspect its already been done, just burred somewhere. Dont think congressional investigators have the power or resources to do it. Will that in itself prove a crime, no, but it will prove millions of $$ changes hands for "questionable purposes". At that point most folks will draw their on conclusions.
I think most folks have already made up their minds about Trump and his hush money and / or documents case as they have about Biden and the foreign $$. Both candidates are denying and most of us think in the 90% percentile their is much truth on each of these cases in common sense logic, perhaps not in legal reasonable doubt and proof..........
I just posted he is guilty of lying about it. I just also posted a credible witness said Joe was involved. Without a shadow of a doubt. Unlike the other witnesses in hunter’s defense he hasn’t been in prison. Seemed credible. That isn’t proof right.
It would be great if you used some. Instead of putting your head in the sand. When I see some from you, I will point it out stone.
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Common sense can tell you oj was a murderer. Or do you need a court to tell you. What do you think they set up shell companies for? Why did Joe adamantly deny having any contact. Zero contact. That was completely untrue. Why lie?
He did this back in 2016 coming out of office. Joe needed to make hay. There are text messages about this. Vague references in emails. Is Joe coming out and admitting it. No. But bobulinski confirmed it. Just depends on what your burden of proof is.
Yes. You can use you brain. Why hide it? Why lie about it? A ten year old can see what happened proven or not.
People with great attorney’s or political protection get away with crimes all the time.
Yes. Exactly. I don’t know if Trump will go down for the doc case. But it is a fact that he spoke to people about top secret docs. The rest is semantics. A lawyer may get him off. Doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty in my mind.
Common sense can tell you oj was a murderer. Or do you need a court to tell you.
Unfortunately that's how our legal system works...you know that whole court thing.
Well maybe if the DOJ would appoint a spec prosecutor, arm him with 40 million dollars and as many hostile FBI agents as he wanted, started conducting 6am raids and pulling 60 and 70 yr old men out of their beds with CNN in tow, had 2 former national security leaders lying on liberal news outlets every night about walls closing in and actually investigate things like Joe showering with his daughter and 10% for the big guy, you'd see some charges. If the DOJ is hiding evidence and refusing to follow leads, obviously there will be no charges but there's damn sure more smoke around Biden than what triggered the spec prosecutor aimed at Trump.
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If Trump wins I’m taking the next day off work for pure entertainment purposes
I played golf on Election Day 2016. After a bunch of transfusions I went to bed early generally thinking trump had no chance.
Woke up and saw what happened. Next night decided to watch the entire MSNBC Election Day coverage on YouTube. Entertaining to say the least.
Your man was both an asshole and an effective leader to the Jan 6th insurrectionists. First he got them to DC with "be there, will be wild" then he got them really fired up with "if you don't fight like hell, you're not gonna have a country any more" then he blessed them with "these are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots ."
You honestly think all those things you reference were orders for these unarmed jackasses to take over the US government and RE-appoint trump President?
Trump did what Trump does. Says over the top shit. But He actually knows how to be an executive. He knows how to negotiate. He knows how to run a business. He is effective at the stuff that actually has an impact on Americans beyond the hot takes on cable news.
It is not just a coincidence that the bad actor countries are seemingly all the sudden doing shit they never did before 2020. Iran. Russia. China. Our government is extremely easy to read and manipulate right now. Because every decision they make is based on pills and popularity with a specific segment of the population.
This is why I say it's football. Your first paragraph sounds just like fans whose team gets caught cheating by the NCAA and then says "well, everyone is doing it and they're just punishing us". Did any of those politicians try to play up their relationship with certain leaders (in this case, authoritarian dictator that we obviously have had problems with for years that both sides currently acknowledged was a problem)? Did they play up their relationship with leaders of a country that the CIA and FBI had been warning was trying to interfere in our elections? Did any of them ask for such a country's help in getting elected while they were running?
They found some things. I was almost gonna say on that bipartisan report that while there were several troubling things in it, the mob here would focus only on the one that had to do with FBI promoting bad evidence, but not the other troubling things found out.
The bipartisan report five takeaways in that article:
1. Trump campaign and Russia had extensive contacts.
2. Manafort's former business officer was a Russian intelligence officer. (Quoted from the report: Manafort “worked with Kilimnik starting in 2016 on narratives that sought to undermine evidence that Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. election.”
3. Manaford, Trump Jr. and Kushner come under scrutiny. Kushner and Trump Jr. as lessers, but Manafort from the bipartisan report: “Taken as a whole, Manafort’s high level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik and associates of Oleg Deripaska, represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the report states.
4. FBI comes under criticism: “The Committee found that, within the FBI, the dossier was given a veneer of credibility by lax procedures, and layered misunderstandings. Before corroborating the information in the dossier, FBI cited that information in a FISA application,” the report says.
5. Both parties agree that the thread from Russia persists.
How you and most here read the bipartisan report.
1. Trump campaign and Russia had extensive contacts.
2. Manafort's former business officer was a Russian intelligence officer. (Quoted from the report: Manafort “worked with Kilimnik starting in 2016 on narratives that sought to undermine evidence that Russia interfered in the 2016 U.S. election.”
3. Manaford, Trump Jr. and Kushner come under scrutiny. Kushner and Trump Jr. as lessers, but Manafort from the bipartisan report: “Taken as a whole, Manafort’s high level access and willingness to share information with individuals closely affiliated with the Russian intelligence services, particularly Kilimnik and associates of Oleg Deripaska, represented a grave counterintelligence threat,” the report states.
4. FBI comes under criticism: “The Committee found that, within the FBI, the dossier was given a veneer of credibility by lax procedures, and layered misunderstandings. Before corroborating the information in the dossier, FBI cited that information in a FISA application,” the report says.
5. Both parties agree that the threat from Russia persists.
As I said earlier, I never really believed Trump, himself, colluded. He's not really smart enough to do it and not get caught. I think we can easily see that's the case now.
It was certainly an attempt to deny a fairly elected person from serving as President and keep an individual that the American people had voted out according to America's own voting laws.
Your "asshole" on those "effing idots".
After they broke into the Capitol Trump said: “We love you,” “You’re very special.”
Later the same day: “These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away.”
Months later:
Said to those being prosecuted by the government for Jan. 6th: “People who have been treated unfairly are going to be treated extremely, extremely fairly,” “What you’ve suffered is just ridiculous,” he added. “But it’s going to be OK.”
So there is proof according to any left leaning rag that will quote it of Russian collusion. Or a desperate bi partisan report, who wanted the investigation. So they were on the hook too. But no actual proof submitted by the fbi worth the investigation. Which they apologized for wasting tax payer dollars. Were chastised by the an independent investigator for going way too far. You want to die on this hill. You and will. It is insane how you won’t let it go. It was right to investigate. Same way it should have been to investigate a certain laptop. Which was buried. And that absolutely could have changed election results.
I don’t think Trump is squeaky clean when it comes to Russia, but the best investigative group on planet earth found next to nothing. And did so while going way outside their scope, over reaching so much it required changes and an apology. Even offering bribes to bring any proof agains djt. These are fact kckd. Quotes and hopes are not facts. You didn’t even mention anything about Obama and Hillary being actually caught spying on Trump. How come you are avoiding that.
Durham report takeaways: A 'seriously flawed' Russia investigation and its lasting impact on the FBI
A 306-page report by Justice Department special counsel John Durham is refocusing negative attention on one of the most politically significant investigations in FBI history: the probe into whether Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign was colluding with Russia to tip the outcome of the...
apnews.com
Please read. Durham says they didn’t corroborate “one single substantive allegation”. Not one. The bipartisan report means jack shit. He is telling you the investigation was flawed. They (bipartisan report)called for it so used every chance they could to try to link anything in the bipartisan report. In the end, nothing was corroborated according to Durham. We are at an impasse. This article is absolutely impossible to intelligently argue against.
Not to mention Durham found evidence of much softer treatment of the Clinton’s. Totally different treatment. I will say this again. How can anyone on the right trust them? All while members of this bi partisan report were going on air, saying they have seen the evidence, it is iron clad, trump was done. It is like out of a political movie. Seems like it was made up. This actually happened.
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