I really don't care what happened with Clinton firing government workers because it has no relation to what is happening with Trump and Musk. The two are simply not comparable. Musk has not been elected to work in government in any capacity, yet he is being given the keys to the vault, so to speak by Trump who has control of both the Senate and the House as well as the supreme court. He has full access to any federal government organization he wants to investigate with no guard rails along with the authority to fire whomever he pleases. This is unprecedented and is extremely scary. It is also extremely antidemocratic. If you don''t attribute ulterior motives to both Musk and his "boss", you are certainly joined by the majority.
Perspective from a recently fired probationary federal employee...
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He doesn't need to confiscate weapons because his cabinet consists of his flunkies who are carrying out his programs and has the military under his control. He has already centralized power and it is being carried out right under the nose of the folks who elected him without protests. Really, I hope he is innocuous like you claim but everything he is doing countermands that hope.
It is amazing the fear porn put out there by the left. A president not answering questions, controlling the media narrative, using the doj to go after anyone opposing is as bad as it gets. Trump has a long way to get to that level. This was going to be done by someone eventually. Better now than in another ten years. It’s so funny to hear democrats on this board going on and on about this. Yet if you go back and listen to speeches from Obama, Hillary and bill they mention the same exact issues that need to be fixed. The budget was balanced thanks to newt and Clinton. Can we ever get back there is the question? We won’t without taking our medicine at some point. There isn’t even a position to argue here. That is what to me is so mind blowing. The USA credit card is maxed out.
You don’t like who is doing it. I get it. There will be eggs broken. I hate it for the innocent people in the way. It could happen to anyone. No one is guaranteed anything
Interesting perspective especially since liberals were all for the following during the Obama and Biden Administrations:
These are the eight levels of controls by Saul Alinsky to transform a nation through socialism into communism.
1. Healthcare – control healthcare and you control the people.
2. Poverty – Increase the poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you provide everything for them to live.
3. Debt – Increase the debt level to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes and this will produce more poverty.
4. Gun control – Remove the ability to defend themselves from government. That way you are able to create a police state.
5. Welfare – Take control of every aspect (food, housing, income) of their lives because that will make them fully dependent on the government.
6. Education – Take control of what people read and listen to and take control or what children learn in school.
7. Religion – Remove belief in God from the government and schools because the people need to believe in only the government knowing what is best for the people.
8. Class warfare – Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. Eliminate the middle class.
These are pretty undemocratic to me. When you add to this unlimited illegal alien immigration into the nation ,and this is the reason you have Trump2 today.
I absolutely think Trump has ulterior motives , but it is not to take over the country with the 4th Reich. I fully believe he is out to punish those who persecuted him; but this vendetta is having some very positive side effects identifying the waste and fraud in our government. Now that all Congressmen will be audited, I am sure many will do anything possible to take Trump out.
This concern is the same thing Anderson Cooper talked about a few days ago on CNN, he has been big on the Hitler analogies..
Concerns like this and other screams from the progressive left is what is driving the likes of James Carville, David Axelrod, and Rahm Emanuel absolutely nuts. I have seen where they are telling the progressives to STFU because all this crying and screaming while fraud and waste is being uncovered is pointing the finger right to the Democratic Party. Last week the party approval rating was down to 31% and I have heard where it has tanked more after the idiots reintroduced the 4.5-16 Trillion dollar Reparations Bill.
I saw Julian Epstein on a show the other night and he was saying much the same. He and Rahm Emanuel always struck me as political geniuses and if they can see the Dem party flailing, the Dem leaders should listen. I don't think Trump = Hitler is hitting the mark any longer because folks are realizing that Trump is a decentralizing figure.
Zingerdawg, you just don't get it. You obviously trust Trump and Musk and look at their attempts, as illegal and brutal as they are, to downsize government. That is not really the main thing. You seem to trust that Trump and Musk will preserve democracy. Trump is not simply a narcissist, he wants to be in total control, which means that democracy is likely not to survive his being president. That is what the MAGA folks totally miss.
I have seen his presidency before. He hasn’t done things necessary to deter democracy. Like answering for his actions. He told you what he was going to do. That isn’t how it works my man. He would just do it and the people be damned. It is the fear porn you believe. You think Trump supporters are anti democracy. That is just ridiculous. Unless you agree with all those that say today’s democrats are all communists. It is an extreme position that you believe. It is never as bad or good as it seems brother. You think people on this board who are pubs would ever support someone who does what he is being accused to possibly do. That is off the reservation thinking.
If Trump wanted to be "in total control" he would not have tried to overturn the ACA. He wouldn't be trying to scuttle the DOE and return the money and power to the states. He wouldn't have Musk exposing hundreds of billions in waste and fraud, he would be keeping it mired in the swamp and and converting it to his slush funds. He wouldn't have and wouldn't be deregulating.
Yes, Trump runs the executive branch like a boss but he was democratically elected to be the boss of the executive branch. To my knowledge he hasn't ignored judicial rulings or tried to shut down debate. Hell, if anything Trump enjoys debating jounos instead of intimidating them.
I have been in education, both in public school education and higher education for over 55 years, and I can tell you that Trump's scuttling the DOE is a disaster for education. And I am not the only educator who feels that way--it is universal. What Musk is doing is a disaster, not because government spending should not be curtailed, but because he is a non-elected operative whose apparent absolute authority is ordained by Trump and who thereby proceeds unchecked and without constraint. Further, Musk is billed as the richest man in the world who has been able to secure huge amounts of money from the Feds so it seems that he has built-in contradictions.
We're near the top in spending per pupil and ranked near the bottom of the rankings of modern countries in performance. Forgive me for thinking the DOE is a huge waste. We don't need a fed bureaucracy skimming money off the top when the states can spend that money just as well. Regardless, a fascist wouldn't be trying to reduce his power and influence over education. He would be trying to trap students in schools that were ran by fed government fiat.
Who’s in charge of DOGE? Not Elon Musk, White House says
A Trump administration personnel official says Musk has "no actual or formal authority to make government decisions."
Because they are not the idiots you think they are. He isn’t carrying out anything. He is the senior advisor. He is in charge of finding wasteful spending, but has no power to do anything. Again, for the exact reason you and others have been complaining so much. He isn’t in charge of usaid. He isn’t in charge of doge. Not in title. So everything will be documented.
The states will have to pick up the tab that the feds were spending on the DOE. The feds will not simple allocate money to the states. It is yet to be seen if the states supply the services to the public schools that the DOE was supporting. But it is very doubtful. If they do, the state taxes will go up accordingly. And, by the way, the feds have all kinds of ways to influence education.
I have been around a long time too and there was considerable concern in 1979 when Carter created the federal DOE. Many states felt that was something that was inherently a states rights under the Constitution. The biggest concern was to keep the fed from controlling curriculum nation wide. This concern came from fear of a fascist or communist agenda being pushed on students from D.C.--remember Alinsky's point #7 in converting a nation to communism (6. Education – Take control of what people read and listen to and take control or what children learn in school.)
The DOE made itself a target for Trump due to the massive complaints from states over curriculum being forced on students related to sex and things like Critical Race Theory.
I know locally all our schools turned down DOE grants due to DEI being attached as well as requiring Gender identity and sexual orientation to be taught in Grammar School. One of my Granddaughters is a teacher and pretty liberal on most things, but the requirement to teach gender identity and sexual orientation to young children was just way out of line as far as she was concerned .
Nice post, the real question to me is has education improved since the DOE started 40 plus years ago?? Are students learning more??
Haven't done the research, but my guess is no, and the DOE is not a good investment for the taxpayers of this country. Probably better ways to spend the money. Here is an interesting article/take if anyone has the time to read it (Harvard):
Unpacking the U.S. Department of Education: What Does It Actually Do?
Professor Martin West discusses the DoEd’s responsibilities, the misconceptions surrounding its influence, and the historical and political forces that have shaped its existence
I really dont care that you hate musk and trump
you will find a new reason to bitch tomorrow
The notion that the president shouldn't be able to fire as much of the civil service he wants is antidemocratic, and ultimately any action taken under the advice of DOGE comes from the authority of the elected president (who himself campaigned on Musk and DOGE.)
If Trump was what our friend here thinks he is, he would have used covid to takeover the country. Instead, he was one of the most federalist leaders in the world.
I didn't care to get into this debate because it more emotion than reality, but you have missed some very important points.
Many of these workers(including the OP I think) are probationary and this gives the government the ability to lay them off with or without cause.
Also, many of these employees were offered severance which some did take and others didn't. If they passed on that option they will struggle in a legal case.
In addition, with family members in Federal jobs, you may be surprised at how many of these "employees" are actually "contract" workers and are not direct employees of the government. Basically they are temps and can just be told to go back to their agency.
It will all end up being sorted out int he courts and even if the plaintiffs get a favorable judge and judgment, the payment the government will have to make will still save money in the long run.
We went to the moon without a Department of Education. You’ve offered no solutions. You merely state that Musk wasn’t elected. Well isn’t that true of all the people at the DOE? Musk was appointed by Trump, just like the Secretary of Education.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen it. You ALWAYS take the first buyout. Unless your related to the CEO
I’m going to say it one more time for the people in the back…
Probationary employees (ones that have been on less than a year) who took the buyout are being fired and told they no longer qualify for the buyout.
This is happening. I don’t know how many other ways I can explain this.
I was surprised when I heard buyouts were being offered to probationary employees. During Clinton's reduction of the federal workforce I had 10 employees who had worked temporary for many years and I had finally got them on permanent just a few months before the RIF. There were generous buyouts being offered, but my employees were not eligible due to their probationary status. It took me 3 years but I finally got them back on.
Hang in there, things can change quickly from bad to better.
It was never for them. I was talking why more permanent employees didn’t take it.
Many people suggested that Elon and Trump should not be trusted regarding the buyout offers. It’s unfortunate that the POTUS and wealthiest man in the world can’t be counted on to operate in good faith. It’s disgusting.
Anyone who think this administration cares in any way about anyone who isn’t rich and powerful is simply ignoring reality. They proposed $4.6t in tax cuts for the wealthy and are going to pay for it out of the hide of the middle class. If they were serious about the deficit they wouldn’t be proposing massive tax cuts.
Anyone who thinks that democrats care is also delusional. If they did, they would not spend the money of the things they did at USAID. The democrats don’t offer many tax cuts. They just spend money everywhere but the USA.
I think many people misconstrue just how bloated and challenging the job market is. I'm not saying that to discourage the OP, but I shake my head when people say, "In 1987, I dusted myself off and got back at it." Kudos for doing so, but this is 2025—even 2008 would have been more realistic. For people in their 30s and younger, this job market is vicious.
They don't want to hear the truth that contradicts their opinions. They want everything to be so cut and dry that they lose sight of the fact that real people with real lives are losing things. It's easy to point fingers, make assumptions, and speak offhandedly when your own pockets aren't at risk. Let the economy tank and see how many then claim it's a "necessary evil."
For the first time in forever someone is actually looking at how federal agencies are actually spending taxpayer money. Yeah, some good people will unfortunately be caught up in the downsizing but if you think some of these Departments, such as the Department of Education, actually help educate kids instead of “burning money” you’d be in the minority. Hell, even Bill Maher thinks that’s the case. The federal bureaucracy has grown out of control and it’s pretty obvious there’s been no real accounting of where the money is being spent. Not even Congress has had real control or oversight. What has just been revealed in the last three weeks should make everyone (no matter your political beliefs) think we’ve had a long term problem. But the next time I have to write a big check for a quarterly tax payment I’ll at least know someone is trying.
What you just said applies just as much, even moreso, in the private sector. Once corporate takeovers happen whole departments and more get eliminated. The best and worst employees get treated the same. I know from personal experience as does almost everyone who’s ever worked for a company. But for years the federal bureaucracy has been isolated from the economic ups and downs that those in the private sector faced. Part of why DC residents (including those lobbying for more money) have higher average incomes, exceeding the level of every other state by a wide margin. Not sure this is about an angry mob as much as a government with a 36 trillion dollar debt that most acknowledge but no one seems to want to take any action to even put a small dent in it.
I’m really sorry, OP. Seriously. Your situation really sucks. You were (I’m guessing intentionally maybe you risk getting killed) quite coy about what it is that you actually do for a living, seem confident in your skills and work at it, so here’s hoping you find a new position that suits your needs for your family as soon as possible. Perfectly fine with what you do in your job is not my business.
,As a self-employed individual I have no advice for you other than, next time, I’d recommend that you choose a company for whom to work that does not run such large deficits year after year after year after year after year. Companies that can’t balance their books have no choice, but to eventually fire people-at least when anyone remotely responsible to those paying the bills is in charge.
You sound as though you understand the sentiments of people on the outside, looking in. I’m grateful that you do. Those of us who bust our asses every day to pay the bills for a federal government that, taking your word, spends our money both on hard-working, well–meaning employees, such as you, as well as money-laundering schemes by politicians and inane bullshit like transgender operas in Peru, grow weary of the gimme gimme gimme.
I know it’s only like $20,000 for a transgender opera in Peru. I’m guessing you’d probablyrather have that money then see it pissed away in Peru on transgender operas.
So would I.
No offense, but please don’t expect those of us who work for ourselves to give a damn about any “civil service protections.”
I’m not trying to be a dick here. No one is protecting my job from me being fired, save me, yet I am the one helping pay the bills for your employer, as they piss our money away:. The job of a “civil servant“ being protected from firing, but not mine, is just going to be a pretty tough sell on me. It sounds like you already get that. but some people who read this won’t.
Your employer screwed up things for you, not those of us out here busting our asses every day to pay the bills for your employer, and I’m sorry.. I genuinely do hope you land on your feet. Good luck in finding employment elsewhere in doing whatever it is that you do outdoors.
Every time I have had to deal with a fed employee, it was an exercise in frustration, incompetence and apathy on their part. That’s why I cheer it overall. I am sorry you were caught in the crossfire.
The lesson I learned long ago is never trust government. If you work for them, you are putting your livelihood, future, family at risk. I don’t care who’s president,
There’s a ton of waste on govt employees. Not saying you, I just hope they get the right ones, but there will always be collateral damage.
I hope things turn out better for you going forward
The lesson I learned long ago is never trust government. If you work for them, you are putting your livelihood, future, family at risk. I don’t care who’s president,
There’s a ton of waste on govt employees. Not saying you, I just hope they get the right ones, but there will always be collateral damage.
I hope things turn out better for you going forward
That sucks. Hopefully you will get your position back. Using an arbitrary for all in the first year is dumb. The federal government as a whole is WAY too big. But there are plenty of government workers who are lazy not doing a great job and I suspect more of them are the career people. Yes I thought about someone who moved to a new state rented or bought a home to suddenly get fired for no reason. I think people who were needed and doing a good job should have a reevaluation for rehire. Can you push for that or is there no avenue. Can those who were your supervisors do anything to get you rehired? We went from one extreme to the other. In the past you could not get rid of government employees. The complaints I’ve heard over poor workers at the VA. Showing up late always for work or not at all and never disciplined so they keep doing it. Then everyone else sees they get away with it and that attitude is contagious. Those are the workers that need to be replaced or terminated. Not someone busting their a$$
The concerns about "not being trusted regarding the buyout" had more to do with the appropriations process than Elon or Trump. It's unfortunate that the US government can't be counted on to operate in good faith, but that's a systemic issue and we are seeing with Trump and DOGE the first real attempt at making the sort of major changes FedGov needs.
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