...was more gaslighting, per usual. It just took leadership with a willingness to do something about it.
Anybody game for denying it?
Anybody game for denying it?
The Border Bill that supposedly "had" to be passed to secure the border...
- Thread starter Lava-Man
- Start date
It was more of an illegal alien bill than a border bill. About like the inflation reduction act had nothing to do with reduction. But yeah Biden was ful of shit saying he needed legislation to close the border.
Can’t wait to hear the defense of this….lol
I would love to hear a follow up on the quoted posts above.
What is that graph telling us? Are crossings happening? Yes or no? If yes, the border is not closed and I stand by my correct statement that trump won't "close the border". If no, good. I'm cool with it and will eat crow.
Which is it?
Nobody has ever claimed it would ever be "zero". That's a stupid position to take and argue against. Are you really saying that 150K+ LESS crossings isn't "closing the border", relative to Biden's sieve? It was ALWAYS about reducing them to the best of our ability and what was within the Executive Branch's ability to do so.
What statement are you standing by? Are you simply going to be pedantic with "If it's not ZERO, I'M RIGHT!" (insert massive eye roll)
Why can't you simply admit you were wrong and that Trump has done exactly what he said he would? Are you that tribal? Good grief.
I posted the same thing before noticing this. Great minds…
Hahahahahahaha
that political decision to allow a wide open free for all border has to rank as one of the stupidest political party choices in history
that political decision to allow a wide open free for all border has to rank as one of the stupidest political party choices in history
You will never completely stop crime, drugs, border crossing etc. As soon as you close down one path, or a 100 paths, they come up with another way.
I'm happy as the next person to see illegal crossings down. I never stated any other position.
But instead of cherry picking...how about you read my comments in that thread where I actually agree with your position that it's a) impossible to have a zero tolerance border policy and b) a stupid position for trump to take .
My entire point in that thread that you have now chosen to take out of context and call me out was that trump shouldn't use language like "close the border" or "seal the border" because it leaves no room for error (I even made a comment that words matter). 1 illegal crossing and it's a failure. But since he is using that language, I'm now allowed to be critical of his failure to deliver a "closed border". And I stand by my statement that trump has, in fact, not "closed the border" (his words....not mine). Call it semantics...I really don't care. You asked for the follow-up...
And if you think a "zero tolerance" policy is farfetched...there are some on this board that would only accept that policy ("1 is too many" kinda thing ). All you have to do is look for them.
Finally...color me highly skeptical of any information this administration releases. Trump and his team are known to adjust numbers to fit their message (2017 inauguration immediately comes to mind; DOGE numbers; etc).
Nobody has ever seriously argued that 'close the border' means what you are suggesting it is...even in the thread I quoted. What context?
You have greatly hurt your "points" by defending a pedantic "ZERO" for crossings...and by not admitting that Trump has done exactly what he said he would. WHO on "this board" would "only accept a policy" of "zero tolerance"? Who would actually claim that this level of reduction isn't Trump actually delivering on his promises? You made the claim: Provide the names.
You won't, because you can't. You can either admit that or prove that you're everything you're railing against. This is an easy "win" for all. You could have admitted you were wrong here, but you won't because "Trump is Hitler". You have absolutely stuck yourself in a corner, with your own arguments...because you refuse to accept what's blatantly obvious. How can you not see that?
Your "...color me highly skeptical.." comment is complete BS and a cop out. It's ok to admit that Trump might have done exactly with the border what he said he would. Your continued dismissal of it says far more about your position with a clear refusal to admit that Trump might actually do something "good"...especially with your past claims of political leanings. No true conservative (Trump supporter or not) would ever argue that reducing border crossings by these numbers isn't a total and complete win.
It's ok to admit Trump is succeeding, instead of making continued excuses to the contrary. Can you admit it? What other lame excuse can you present?
Good Grief. The Truth is staring you in the face.
Youre wasting your time with him Lava Man. We have had this discussion before . He thinks if Trump says hes closing the border, that means zero people. Zero people has never happened and will never happen, but here we are.
No question that Trump has impacted border crossings. Exactly how much of what he is doing will withstand legal challenges has yet to be determined.
Early returns in court to ending birthright citizenship are not encouraging for the Trump administration. In fact, two conservative judges appointed by GOP president have completely dismissed the effort as blatantly unconstitutional.
Using Guantanamo as a holding facility, thus depriving targets of reasonable legal counsel, is another issue that will end up in litigation. This is even more legally and morally fraught for detainees who have not been charged with a crime.
Speaking of, the administration claims that 90% of detained deportees have been charged or convicted of a crime, but other's claim it's actually less than 50%.
Ice has detained a German tourist who crossed into the US via Tiajuana after she was accused of violating her visa and working in the US. She spent at least a week in solitary confinement and the German government is still trying to get her home.
Is that what everyone had in mind for improved immigration control?
Trump has quite effectively scared potential immigrants into staying away from the border, no question. But at what cost? I'm being intentionally hyperbolic, but East Germany didn't have much of an emigration issue during the cold war. why is that? And let's take it further. Crime rates are often low in authoritarian states because police are free to torture and kill suspects at will, with the active support and encouragement of the state. Is that the approach we want to take, because that is the road we are going down.
When you pardon a bunch of violent felons because they happened to be your violent felons, you are making it clear that the rule of law is secondary to brute power and control. That's what authoritarians do, and people often love the results right up until the point it impacts them.
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You correctly point out that the most effective part of Trump border policy is the deterrent aspect. Military planes and big words have a huge force multiplier effect, not surprising in its' effectiveness relative to the "come on over" message from the Biden admin, that likely contributed even more to the border crisis than the actual terrible "I see nothing" execution of the law. The birthright citizenship announcement is dead in the water as you say legally.....but super effective in terms of deterrent messaging.
The truth is that if there were terrible stories of "innocent" illegals being violently torn from their families, out of schools, etc, etc......we would hear about them on repeat from a media that has been tuned out due to lack of credibility.
Did you really use the Soviet era Berlin wall as an analogy to Trump's border policy to defend your "at what cost?" argument? By your own admission, the Biden border policy was a huge mistake. Take the win and focus on something else to criticize Orange Hitler about. The same orange Hitler who brought peace to Israel / Gaza and is about to do the same for Russia / Ukraine. But he's evil.
All they had to do was enforce the laws that were already there.
The Biden administration was copying Europe on this and you see what a mess they are in. This globalist bs is going to destroy them.
But you can get it down to where you can manage it.
Lol... what President Biden may have been trying to say or "do" is what actually every President has done on major issues... Make Congress (you know the ones who actually make the laws) provide the legislation for such. President Trump has certainty impacted the border crossing in a positive way, but it's not the "law of the land". That can only be done by Congress.
I think President Biden wanted to work with Congress and follow (as much as possible) the Constitution while President Trump has chosen to use EO as his mean to given. EO's are not law and can be changed with the next President.
Frankly, I don’t give a damn about them. They COMMITTED a crime when they entered the US, so they’re all criminals
There already laws that prohibit illegal entry into the country. All Trump did was enforce them.
Trump's followers launched a politically motivated attack on the Capitol, committed hundreds of violent felonies against LEOs that we all watched happen in real time, they were lauded by Trump as heroes and hostages and then they all received blanket pardons.
In fact, Trump has now said publicly that the only victims on J6 were the rioters.
You can't deny a single fact that I listed above. And now Trump has filled the DOJ, FBI and DOD with unqualified sycophants who are sure to do his bidding the next time things get hot.
So, you can accuse me of being an alarmist regarding his intent and willingness to act outside of the law, but history and the facts are very clearly on my side.
J6. Fine. Won't argue. Whole thing was bad.....where we disagree is on its' impact. Most notably completely un-related to the subject here, but also in the past....and most importantly, something that doesn't impact hundreds of millions of Americans.....like the economy, world peace, border security, etc.....which is why Americans ignored J6 on N5. It isn't that they liked it. They just didn't care.
The intent of the border law is very simple. Protect Americans and put Americans first. Simple as that......using something intended to "keep people in", aka the Berlin Wall, as an analogy is a joke.....and you are too smart for that.,
And Biden and the Democrats lead by Polozi were not doing the exact same things that you just posted. Come on man get your head out of your whatever!
I think you missed my point. Threaten enough pain and you can accomplish many things. Is that who we are?
You are dead wrong about the impact of J6 being in the past. Trump pardoned over three hundred people who were willing to commit violent felonies in his name and at his (albeit indirect) behest. Those people are out there and most left prison more radicalized and devoted to Trump then when they arrived.
The threat of violence has been acknowledged off the record by current GOP members of Congress as a concern and a factor in their thinking and voting.
I think you give Biden too much credit. They didn’t push for a bill until 3 years in to look good for elections.
What Trump is doing is literally the law of the land. It is already illegal to cross the border. What backwards understanding of actual US law are you trying to present?
Clearly, all Biden had to do was actually enforce current law (you know, what the Executive Branch is supposed to do). He made a choice not to.
Agree to strongly disagree on the real impact going forward of J6. It isn’t a nothing burger. It was no doubt Trump’s worst moment. But it was just that. A moment. Dude doesn’t handle losing well. At all. Especially given the fact that he can’t run for re-election his only interest now is to make Americans richer and safe. Because that will be his legacy.
One that wouldn't have done any of what's happening now, nor actually reduced crossings. If anything, it would have given the Cartels a number they knew they could consistently hit before POTUS was allowed to do anything. It was a poison pill designed to attempt to win an election.
Amazing. Ridiculous lie told by Biden/ Harris.
Unfortunately, we are tolerating more outright lying for our President’s. That is not good.
He ignored existing laws to farm future votes.
“Border bill” and “comprehensive immigration reform” all mean “amnesty” from democrats.
They cannot win with white voters.
I think you're under-selling how unpopular it is for Latino & other groups of voters, depending on the specific policy. It's certainly not a universal winning argument that the left pretends it is.
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