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This is no State of the Union address

poorpreacher said:
Ah yes!

A famous whataboutism from you. I'm shocked. Trump wasn't speaking. Biden was

Biden is supposed to be better than Trump, remember? The adults in the room?
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Please share the moment or two you found so divisive. Was it when he called out republicans for not supporting the border bill that was co-sponsored by one of the most conservative members of the senate? He listed what the bill would provide and tried to make the case for the bill. How is that divisive?

Or was it when he called out J6 for exactly what it was, a violent attempt, spurred by lies, to stop the winner of the election from taking office? Was it when he said you can’t love your country only when you win? Well, his opponent is still lying about the last election. Facts are facts.

If not that, than what?

It’s not whataboutism if I point out that you are supporting objectively the most divisive man in our lifetime, if not ever, to inhabit the White House, while complaining about divisiveness. Joe taking some form of high road approach and not calling out hypocrisy and lies would be great for Trump. Don’t expect Joe to be that accommodating.

If it felt as if he was attacking those who don’t support free and fair elections or the candidates who would lie about elections to try and stay in power, well, sorry. He wasn’t the one behind fake electors, replacing the AG to try and force DOJ support for his lies, or the one who sat on his hands for over three hours while his followers sacked the Capitol in an effort to stop the rightful winner from being certified.

It’s a rather stark contrast in options this election. Both candidates are going to be making that point over and over again, as they should. I just think the middle is going to be more comfortable with the Dem message than what we heard in the rebuttal last night or what we hear from Trump every day.

Oh, and you can forget the nerrative that Joe is a vege compared to Trump. That message will still play for the base but not anyone else. And Trump is only going to continue to deteriorate as the legal and financial pressures continue to mount.
 
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willdup said:
I’m sure her rebuttal played well with the base, but the base won’t win the GOP the election. As I’ve been saying for months, you can speak to MAGA or speak to the middle. It’s very difficult to do both.
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Did Joe speak to the middle last night?
 
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willdup said:
Please share the moment or two you found so divisive. Was it when he called out republicans for not supporting the border bill that was co-sponsored by one of the most conservative members of the senate? He listed what the bill would provide and tried to make the case for the bill. How is that divisive?

Or was it when he called out J6 for exactly what it was, a violent attempt, spurred by lies, to stop the winner of the election from taking office? Was it when he said you can’t love your country only when you win? Well, his opponent is still lying about the last election. Facts are facts.

If not that, than what?

It’s not whataboutism if I point out that you are supporting objectively the most divisive man in our lifetime, if not ever, to inhabit the White House, while complaining about divisiveness. Joe taking some form of high road approach and not calling out hypocrisy and lies would be great for Trump. Don’t expect Joe to be that accommodating.

If it felt as if he was attacking those who don’t support free and fair elections or the candidates who would lie about elections to try and stay in power, well, sorry. He wasn’t the one behind fake electors, replacing the AG to try and force DOJ support for his lies, or the one who sat on his hands for over three hours while his followers sacked the Capitol in an effort to stop the rightful winner from being certified.

It’s a rather stark contrast in options this election. Both candidates are going to be making that point over and over again, as they should. I just think the middle is going to be more comfortable with the Dem message than what we heard in the rebuttal last night or what we hear from Trump every day.

Oh, and you can forget the nerrative that Joe is a vege compared to Trump. That message will still play for the base but not anyone else. And Trump is only to be getting worse as the legal and financial pressure continues to mount.
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What you posted is a case study for whataboutism. And none of your anticipated attempts to deflect from that, by this lengthy post will change that fact.

Then you follow with a reply filled with more whataboutism,strawman arguments and deflection.

If you want to discuss Biden's speech, I'll be happy to. If you want to discuss Donald Trump, I'll be happy to.

But I'm not getting into a quagmire of a discussion, where you bring unrelated topics, into the business before the house, to confuse the issue.

My post was about Biden. Can you discuss him, without Trump? If you can,I'll play. If you can't forget it.
 
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poorpreacher said:
What you posted is a case study for whataboutism. And none of your anticipated attempts to deflect from that, by this lengthy post will change that fact.

Then you follow with a reply filled with more whataboutism,strawman arguments and deflection.

If you want to discuss Biden's speech, I'll be happy to. If you want to discuss Donald Trump, I'll be happy to.

But I'm not getting into a quagmire of a discussion, where you bring unrelated topics, into the business before the house, to confuse the issue.

My post was about Biden. Can you discuss him, without Trump? If you can,I'll play. If you can't forget it.
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I think I asked a direct question. You suggested the SOTU was divisive. I disagreed and asked for examples. It’s an honest question as I’m curious where you and others saw the negativity and why you saw it that way.
 
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Didn't mention the border crisis for the first 40 minutes.
Wants to aid other countries first but not America.
Brought up Roe vs Wade to sway votes of women.
YELLED during his entire RANT.
One of the worst SOTU addresses RANTS ever attempted.
Trump is going to DESTROY him in November.

766.gif
 
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oldmandawg said:
Did Joe speak to the middle last night?
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Not at all. Even liberal folks will admit this was a total departure from state of the union tradition which is designed to speak to the country rather than look like a campaign event.

That said it is exactly what he needed to do - assure his own party he could at least be a candidate. He eliminated Gavin Newsom last night.
 
willdup said:
I think I asked a direct question. You suggested the SOTU was divisive. I disagreed and asked for examples. It’s an honest question as I’m curious where you and others saw the negativity and why you saw it that way.
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I asked you a direct question too.

Can you discuss Joe Biden, without bringing up Donald Trump? If you can, I'll answer. If you can't, our conversation is over.
 
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willdup said:
I think I asked a direct question. You suggested the SOTU was divisive. I disagreed and asked for examples. It’s an honest question as I’m curious where you and others saw the negativity and why you saw it that way.
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Even liberal pundits are calling it the most divisive SOTU ever. Not a bad thing from their perspective but that’s what it was. Objectively that’s what he needed to do given the historically bad polling from his own party and the legit threat of getting pulled before the convention. He could have ended his candidacy last night with an awful performance. He solidified it.
 
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poorpreacher said:
I asked you a direct question too.

Can you discuss Joe Biden, without bringing up Donald Trump? If you can, I'll answer. If you can't, our conversation is over.
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Please highlight where my last post mentioned TFG. It didn’t.

Let’s discuss the SOTU.
 
Making a cameo appearance.

I see both sides are once again lost in the words of politicians. The SOTU was full of topics highlighting topics of division and making references to the predecessor. Those are strange topics for a SOTU speech instead of primarily focusing on issues facing the nation.

The whole concept of sowing division is laughable because humans have always been and always will be divided on various levels until we return to the Lord, but that's another matter.

Instead of worrying about division, start worrying about the actions and inactions of people, particularly those in power.

It's 2024 and there's been almost a 4 year concerted effort to keep the big loser of 2020 off the ballot. Why?

Regardless of what happened in 2016, Americans spoke loud and clear including many jumping across the aisle to elect 46 to the tune of 81 million votes. With such a clear and decisive victory, why is there such an effort to keep 45 from running? Shouldn't 45 guarantee another victory for 46?

Please explain the fear of 45.
 
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poorpreacher said:
TFG?
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The Former Guy. I didn’t mention The Former Guy in my last post and will refrain from doing so again, at least in my exchange with you.

Let’s discuss the SOTU and why you found it so negative.
 
willdup said:
The Former Guy. I didn’t mention The Former Guy in my last post and will refrain from doing so again, at least in my exchange with you.

Let’s discuss the SOTU and why you found it so negative.
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Great. Let me preface this by saying Mr. BIiden's speech was divisive is my OPINION. It's pretty difficult to prove a belief to someone else. But you asked why feel I feel the way I do. Me. Moi. The preacher.

From the beginning of his presidency, Joe Biden has portrayed himself as an improvement. A uniter. The adult in charge. He literally said he would not seek to divide the country, in a previous SOTU address.

In the first 60 seconds of his speech, he was talking about threats to democracy, from within.

He blamed Republicans for immigration

He suggested Republicans would end social security

He blamed the SC for Roe

He suggested "some on this room" want to deny the truth about Jan 6

He largely chose to attack opposition, rather than articulate a vision. Even if (IF, IF, IF IF) his attacks are factually correct, they were fundamentally divisive. Why bring up Jan 6 deniers, in a speech about the future?


And, in short, that is why I feel his speech was divisive. He attacked opposition, instead of articulating a vision.


But he probably had to, in order to counter the declining old man impression he has portrayed.
 
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I kinda like fired up sleepy Joe it’s a lot more entertaining

I certainly don’t feel like it was uniting at all, but watching him yell was amusing
 
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Don Ellis said:
I kinda like fired up sleepy Joe it’s a lot more entertaining

I certainly don’t feel like it was uniting at all, but watching him yell was amusing
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The problem is that angry Joe works in front of the teleprompter. In a think on your feet reactive setting it is an unmitigated disaster. This was his 50th SOTU. A crowd of gushing supporters. With weeks to prepare and stakes high he did what he needed to do - solidify democrat support. Give him credit for that and take comfort that he solidified himself as the democtat candidate. Last night was a good night for Joe. And for republicans. For the same exact reason.
 
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poorpreacher said:
"My God. What freedoms will they take away next?"

Pretty divisive
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Nobody actually wants to take away freedoms in my opinion. There are local laws, state laws, Federal laws.

This isn't a 1 blanket fits all country. If you don't like certain laws you are free to move, or advocate and vote for those candidates that support your beliefs.

He was just stroking fear......fear sells
 
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poorpreacher said:
Great. Let me preface this by saying Mr. BIiden's speech was divisive is my OPINION. It's pretty difficult to prove a belief to someone else. But you asked why feel I feel the way I do. Me. Moi. The preacher.

From the beginning of his presidency, Joe Biden has portrayed himself as an improvement. A uniter. The adult in charge. He literally said he would not seek to divide the country, in a previous SOTU address.

In the first 60 seconds of his speech, he was talking about threats to democracy, from within.

He blamed Republicans for immigration

He suggested Republicans would end social security

He blamed the SC for Roe

He suggested "some on this room" want to deny the truth about Jan 6

He largely chose to attack opposition, rather than articulate a vision. Even if (IF, IF, IF IF) his attacks are factually correct, they were fundamentally divisive. Why bring up Jan 6 deniers, in a speech about the future?


And, in short, that is why I feel his speech was divisive. He attacked opposition, instead of articulating a vision.


But he probably had to, in order to counter the declining old man impression he has portrayed.
Click to expand...
Ok, that's helpful, and I'll do my best to have this discussion without mentioning our last president.

For many of us, we do feel strongly that there are internal threats to democracy. There are felony indictments for fake electors in three states and more will likely be added soon. We all saw J6 and know what the desired outcome was of that event. And of course, there are some senior figures (treading lightly here) who are under indictment for trying to invalidate the votes of millions of Americans. Would you have Biden ignore those rather extraordinary facts? It's by far the number one issue for me and a lot of other people.

Being inclusive (versus divisive) does not mean making a good faith effort to onboard or accommodate people who think Biden stole the last election, and to quote some people on the Chat last night and today, is a fundamentally evil person. That wouldn't just be political malpractice, it would be political suicide. That group is unreachable and attempting to accommodate them accomplishes nothing. No one who still thinks Biden stole the election will ever be persuaded by any argument or facts. Move on and focus on the people who can be persuaded.

I'll definitely agree that the comment about the SCOTUS was unusually political. But as @Don Ellis asked above, the overturning of Roe did take a guaranteed right away and the practical application of that decision is still reverberating. See AL and IVF. It is also deeply unpopular, and that topic is going to be one of the two or three that likely determine that outcome of the next election. It isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, it's that if you don't agree with one group's views, you are a murderer and baby killer, and that God is on their side. In many cases, they won't even accommodate rape and incest as exceptions. So how is Biden supposed to be inclusive of that group?

So, I'll concede that was divisive, but also probably a shrewd political maneuver where popular opinion is on his side.

As I said to @zingerdawg, most of the people such as you and me, who spend too much time on the Chat, are not going to turn this election. You felt his speech was divisive, I didn't find it to be. You likely thought the rebuttal was spot on, I found it genuinely creepy and dark.

At the end of the day, the only question that matters is, how did the 5%-10% who either haven't made up their minds or decided if they will vote at all, react to the messaging from both sides. I think the night was a winner for the Dems, but only time will tell.

I also think that the vege narrative took a hell of a hit last night but understand that Biden could have executed a flawless Irish jig while rapping about obscure heads of state and it wouldn't change the view of his mental competence for some of you. Again, it doesn't matter. For the people in the middle, I suspect his performance was reassuring.
 
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willdup said:
Ok, that's helpful, and I'll do my best to have this discussion without mentioning our last president.

For many of us, we do feel strongly that there are internal threats to democracy. There are felony indictments for fake electors in three states and more will likely be added soon. We all saw J6 and know what the desired outcome was of that event. And of course, there are some senior figures (treading lightly here) who are under indictment for trying to invalidate the votes of millions of Americans. Would you have Biden ignore those rather extraordinary facts? It's by far the number one issue for me and a lot of other people.

Being inclusive (versus divisive) does not mean making a good faith effort to onboard or accommodate people who think Biden stole the last election, and to quote some people on the Chat last night and today, is a fundamentally evil person. That wouldn't just be political malpractice, it would be political suicide. That group is unreachable and attempting to accommodate them accomplishes nothing. No one who still thinks Biden stole the election will ever be persuaded by any argument or facts. Move on and focus on the people who can be persuaded.

I'll definitely agree that the comment about the SCOTUS was unusually political. But as @Don Ellis asked above, the overturning of Roe did take a guaranteed right away and the practical application of that decision is still reverberating. See AL and IVF. It is also deeply unpopular, and that topic is going to be one of the two or three that likely determine that outcome of the next election. It isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, it's that if you don't agree with one group's views, you are a murderer and baby killer, and that God is on their side. In many cases, they won't even accommodate rape and incest as exceptions. So how is Biden supposed to be inclusive of that group?

So, I'll concede that was divisive, but also probably a shrewd political maneuver where popular opinion is on his side.

As I said to @zingerdawg, most of the people such as you and me, who spend too much time on the Chat, are not going to turn this election. You felt his speech was divisive, I didn't find it to be. You likely thought the rebuttal was spot on, I found it genuinely creepy and dark.

At the end of the day, the only question that matters is, how did the 5%-10% who either haven't made up their minds or decided if they will vote at all, react to the messaging from both sides. I think the night was a winner for the Dems, but only time will tell.

I also think that the vege narrative took a hell of a hit last night but understand that Biden could have executed a flawless Irish jig while rapping about obscure heads of state and it wouldn't change the view of his mental competence for some of you. Again, it doesn't matter. For the people in the middle, I suspect his performance was reassuring.
Click to expand...

I don't think one speech errrr....trumps (REALLY SORRY).....the vege narrative. Clearly he's not about to croak. My guess is he was heavily medicated to get through the speech. Not a major disagreement, just a counterpoint.

I also think it is in bounds to address issues important to his party. But "us" and "them", "me" vs. "Him" was all through the speech.

He said this
Texas did that
Republicans want to, but I say
Some in here want to

The whole "they" vs "we" is contrary to what Biden pledged himself to be.

In my opinion...my opinion now.....Don't say you are a uniter, if you are going to say,"Look at how much better we are than THEM"
 
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willdup said:
Ok, that's helpful, and I'll do my best to have this discussion without mentioning our last president.

For many of us, we do feel strongly that there are internal threats to democracy. There are felony indictments for fake electors in three states and more will likely be added soon. We all saw J6 and know what the desired outcome was of that event. And of course, there are some senior figures (treading lightly here) who are under indictment for trying to invalidate the votes of millions of Americans. Would you have Biden ignore those rather extraordinary facts? It's by far the number one issue for me and a lot of other people.

Being inclusive (versus divisive) does not mean making a good faith effort to onboard or accommodate people who think Biden stole the last election, and to quote some people on the Chat last night and today, is a fundamentally evil person. That wouldn't just be political malpractice, it would be political suicide. That group is unreachable and attempting to accommodate them accomplishes nothing. No one who still thinks Biden stole the election will ever be persuaded by any argument or facts. Move on and focus on the people who can be persuaded.

I'll definitely agree that the comment about the SCOTUS was unusually political. But as @Don Ellis asked above, the overturning of Roe did take a guaranteed right away and the practical application of that decision is still reverberating. See AL and IVF. It is also deeply unpopular, and that topic is going to be one of the two or three that likely determine that outcome of the next election. It isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, it's that if you don't agree with one group's views, you are a murderer and baby killer, and that God is on their side. In many cases, they won't even accommodate rape and incest as exceptions. So how is Biden supposed to be inclusive of that group?

So, I'll concede that was divisive, but also probably a shrewd political maneuver where popular opinion is on his side.

As I said to @zingerdawg, most of the people such as you and me, who spend too much time on the Chat, are not going to turn this election. You felt his speech was divisive, I didn't find it to be. You likely thought the rebuttal was spot on, I found it genuinely creepy and dark.

At the end of the day, the only question that matters is, how did the 5%-10% who either haven't made up their minds or decided if they will vote at all, react to the messaging from both sides. I think the night was a winner for the Dems, but only time will tell.

I also think that the vege narrative took a hell of a hit last night but understand that Biden could have executed a flawless Irish jig while rapping about obscure heads of state and it wouldn't change the view of his mental competence for some of you. Again, it doesn't matter. For the people in the middle, I suspect his performance was reassuring.
Click to expand...
It is funny how different people hear things. Lord even the Democrat analysts thought both tried to be really positive. Even saying that the woman who did the pub rebuttal did a great job not getting too much in the muck. You can see why she is a rising star. Their words. They are fixing the ivf issue.

Why does Jan 6th have anything to do the the sotu address. That happened 3 years ago. I know it warms you inside. It is all you have left. Last night felt so good because your guy read a prompter. And yelled.

He did what he had done since he got into office. He lied about what would be done if he isn’t in office. He lied about what he has done in office, but above all that will, he only governs for a certain segment of the country. People I talk to every day. Pay check to pay check folks are sick of him. Tired of struggling day to day way more than they were before. This is from mostly Democrat voters. He may win, but from my sample size if it is similar all over the country I don’t see how. This wasn’t the rhetoric before the last election.

I heard more of the same. No ownership for his approval rating. There is a reason for this.

That girl’s parents are going to follow Biden to any townhall meetings where he is in the public. That issue isn’t going away. I have heard they will make it ugly for him every chance they get. Maybe clearer heads prevail, but not what I am hearing around here at the moment. Enjoy.
 
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poorpreacher said:
I don't think one speech errrr....trumps (REALLY SORRY).....the vege narrative. Clearly he's not about to croak. My guess is he was heavily medicated to get through the speech. Not a major disagreement, just a counterpoint.

I also think it is in bounds to address issues important to his party. But "us" and "them", "me" vs. "Him" was all through the speech.

He said this
Texas did that
Republicans want to, but I say
Some in here want to

The whole "they" vs "we" is contrary to what Biden pledged himself to be.

In my opinion...my opinion now.....Don't say you are a uniter, if you are going to say,"Look at how much better we are than THEM"
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I am hearing the poor girl’s parents are going to be finding Joe on the road during his campaign. That won’t be good. Especially since he called her Lincoln Riley last night. At least Joe is a college football fan
 
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ferris said:
Yet another post by you where you mention Trump... it's uncanny that it's your only card to play. Most of your replies to any post is " oh yeah., but Trump blah blah blah...
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Some people are infatuated with Trump. Like man-crush city. But, just can't admit it.
 
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The ONLY thing that demented moron did right all evening was call that Venezuelan murdering thug that killed Laken Riley an ILLEGAL.

I bet every Lib/DIM, fake news and Biden Admin person went:

giphy.gif


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♂️
 
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atlanta cock# said:
He's divisive as hell.

Adding insult to injury, he said Lincoln Riley instead of Laken Riley, but I'll give him credit when he said she and 1000s of American were killed by illegals.

I don't know what cocktail they poured into him, but it didn't work. He's an angry, divisive bum with stupid and destructive ideas.
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And he thinks he is a bully and thinks he can bully everyone into doing like he wants them to. He a crazy MF!
 
willdup said:
Please share the moment or two you found so divisive. Was it when he called out republicans for not supporting the border bill that was co-sponsored by one of the most conservative members of the senate? He listed what the bill would provide and tried to make the case for the bill. How is that divisive?

Or was it when he called out J6 for exactly what it was, a violent attempt, spurred by lies, to stop the winner of the election from taking office? Was it when he said you can’t love your country only when you win? Well, his opponent is still lying about the last election. Facts are facts.

If not that, than what?

It’s not whataboutism if I point out that you are supporting objectively the most divisive man in our lifetime, if not ever, to inhabit the White House, while complaining about divisiveness. Joe taking some form of high road approach and not calling out hypocrisy and lies would be great for Trump. Don’t expect Joe to be that accommodating.

If it felt as if he was attacking those who don’t support free and fair elections or the candidates who would lie about elections to try and stay in power, well, sorry. He wasn’t the one behind fake electors, replacing the AG to try and force DOJ support for his lies, or the one who sat on his hands for over three hours while his followers sacked the Capitol in an effort to stop the rightful winner from being certified.

It’s a rather stark contrast in options this election. Both candidates are going to be making that point over and over again, as they should. I just think the middle is going to be more comfortable with the Dem message than what we heard in the rebuttal last night or what we hear from Trump every day.

Oh, and you can forget the nerrative that Joe is a vege compared to Trump. That message will still play for the base but not anyone else. And Trump is only going to continue to deteriorate as the legal and financial pressures continue to mount.
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you are whats wrong with this country
you support that man and its very sad
carry on
 
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shonuff253 said:
What did he lie about?
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So many things....so little time. I already posted a partial list from factcheck.org which you can find yourself.

He lied about the trillions of dollars he cut which he continues to repeat even though it has been debunked everywhere.

He lied about his town in Delaware was the only town occupied by the national guard after MLK was shot. Most missed this BS, but I lived in Memphis and I assure you this is a complete lie.
 
Athens is Heaven said:
I didn’t watch but about 10 minutes of that shit. How was his speech acceptable, did the dims swoon and say It was the greatest speech ever. But what I really want to know is how the average middle class voter thought about it.
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stray said:
Welp, the list of lies and disinformation is pretty extensive so you may need to set aside some time to read it all.
There may be more but here is a good starting point.

They didn’t get them all but the “my city was the only city occupied by the national guard” story is a complete and very obvious lie.

His dismissive, condescending comment to the Riley family was infuriating. “Thousands of people are killed by illegals”. Basically, saying you’re not special, lots of people have their kids murdered by these people. WTF?

www.factcheck.org

FactChecking Biden's State of the Union - FactCheck.org

His speech included misleading claims on inflation, crime, clean energy investments, wages and other subjects.
www.factcheck.org www.factcheck.org
Click to expand...
Bump....everyone needs to read this...
 
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willdup said:
Biden was sowing the seed of division?

Trump has said that “I am your retribution”, has promised to pardon the J6 convicts and has vilified every aspect of our government and electoral processes.

But Biden is sowing the seed of division. Right.
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The last sentence of your post was correct. Biden makes, obama look like a unifier by comparison!
 
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