5 Ukraine officials arrested for taking $40 million from the war fund. Just a drop in the bucket for how deep the corruption likely goes. Let's give troll Zelensky another $50 billion dollars just because
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5 Ukraine officials arrested for taking $40 million from the war fund. Just a drop in the bucket for how deep the corruption likely goes. Let's give troll Zelensky another $50 billion dollars just because
Probably just a bunch of fall guys. That government is reportedly one of the most corrupt on earthSurprise surprise. What we’ve saying all along
Interesting that those guys discussed Ukrainian corruption for nearly ten minutes and there was not a single word about the Russian gangster who runs a kleptocracy and openly assassinates the reporters and opposition figures who dare stand against him. It was Putin who launched this war and Putin is the one who says over and over again his goal is to reconstitute the USSR.
5 Ukraine officials arrested for taking $40 million from the war fund. Just a drop in the bucket for how deep the corruption likely goes. Let's give troll Zelensky another $50 billion dollars just because
Everyone knows Russia is crazy corrupt but the United States hasn't given more $100 billion dollars to Russia for their war effort. I'm sure you see the difference and why this should matter to Americans.Interesting that those guys discussed Ukrainian corruption for nearly ten minutes and there was not a single word about the Russian gangster who runs a kleptocracy and openly assassinates the reporters and opposition figures who dare stand against him. It was Putin who launched this war and Putin is the one who says over and over again his goal is to reconstitute the USSR.
There’s never been a modern war zone that was corruption free. So we just let what is by far the most corrupt nation state on the planet, one that has clearly stated expansionists goals, roll over a European democracy?
There’s another thread about how evil China is and I tend to agree. China is watching how the west handles Ukraine very, very closely. Hand Ukraine to Putin now and their suspicion that the west lacks the will to oppose evil regimes is confirmed.
Interesting that those guys discussed Ukrainian corruption for nearly ten minutes and there was not a single word about the Russian gangster who runs a kleptocracy and openly assassinates the reporters and opposition figures who dare stand against him. It was Putin who launched this war and Putin is the one who says over and over again his goal is to reconstitute the USSR.
There’s never been a modern war zone that was corruption free. So we just let what is by far the most corrupt nation state on the planet, one that has clearly stated expansionists goals, roll over a European democracy?
There’s another thread about how evil China is and I tend to agree. China is watching how the west handles Ukraine very, very closely. Hand Ukraine to Putin now and their suspicion that the west lacks the will to oppose evil regimes is confirmed.
My guess is the reason they didnt say anything about a guy in Russia is because it has zero to do w Ukraine. Just a hunch.Interesting that those guys discussed Ukrainian corruption for nearly ten minutes and there was not a single word about the Russian gangster who runs a kleptocracy and openly assassinates the reporters and opposition figures who dare stand against him. It was Putin who launched this war and Putin is the one who says over and over again his goal is to reconstitute the USSR.
There’s never been a modern war zone that was corruption free. So we just let what is by far the most corrupt nation state on the planet, one that has clearly stated expansionists goals, roll over a European democracy?
There’s another thread about how evil China is and I tend to agree. China is watching how the west handles Ukraine very, very closely. Hand Ukraine to Putin now and their suspicion that the west lacks the will to oppose evil regimes is confirmed.
The investment us hardly cheep when were not properly funding other military areas, and as I've said in other threads, they're not touching their nuclear capabilities, which is the only thing that we ultimately care about or has any real strategic impact.They are a cheap investment when you consider that they are destroying Russia's Military capabilities.
We lack the will to oppose plenty of evil regimes. Iran alone and ignoring other "bad actors" give the same message.There’s another thread about how evil China is and I tend to agree. China is watching how the west handles Ukraine very, very closely. Hand Ukraine to Putin now and their suspicion that the west lacks the will to oppose evil regimes is confirmed.
Kind of. There is not really another similar example we can reasonably compare to the first full-on invasion of a sovereign European (yes, that matters) country since 1941.We lack the will to oppose plenty of evil regimes. Iran alone and ignoring other "bad actors" give the same message.
Do we really spend billions opposing Iran? We just gave them $6 billion back as well as easing oil embargos that have enriched them once again. Im not sure what you mean. They were broke 4 years ago.Kind of. There is not really another similar example we can reasonably compare to the first full-on invasion of a sovereign European (yes, that matters) country since 1941.
We spend billions every year opposing Iran, given I think you can include all of the support for Israel in that equation, right?
Now that's an interesting take. Remind me why Ukraine is a war zone, and thus requires the billions in aid and equipment we are sending there?My guess is the reason they didnt say anything about a guy in Russia is because it has zero to do w Ukraine. Just a hunch.
Oh really? Seems like the same country was invaded by Russian under Obama and we did nothing.Kind of. There is not really another similar example we can reasonably compare to the first full-on invasion of a sovereign European (yes, that matters) country since 1941.
We spend billions every year opposing Iran, given I think you can include all of the support for Israel in that equation, right?
Right, but we aren't sending aid to Russia, are we? Key difference there & why the discussion of corruption was happening.Now that's an interesting take. Remind me why Ukraine is a war zone, and thus requires the billions in aid and equipment we are sending there?
Georgia? Crimea? Lack of a stronger US response for both arguably played a large part of the calculus for the current conflict.Kind of. There is not really another similar example we can reasonably compare to the first full-on invasion of a sovereign European (yes, that matters) country since 1941.
We spend billions every year opposing Iran, given I think you can include all of the support for Israel in that equation, right?
While you have a point, you are also making my point for me. The 2013 annexation was not a "full-on" invasion where the goal was the take the entire country and replace the democratically elected regime with a Russia-allied ruler, which is what happened in 2022.Oh really? Seems like the same country was invaded by Russian under Obama and we did nothing.
While you have a point, you are also making my point for me. The 2013 annexation was not a "full-on" invasion where the goal was the take the entire country and replace the democratically elected regime with a Russia-allied ruler, which is what happened in 2022.
Ok, nice deflection.While you have a point, you are also making my point for me. The 2013 annexation was not a "full-on" invasion where the goal was the take the entire country and replace the democratically elected regime with a Russia-allied ruler, which is what happened in 2022.
But our tepid response in 2013 absolutely contributed to Putin's current aggression, just as withdrawing support for Ukraine now would encourage Putin to look beyond Ukraine and send the wrong message to China and others.
Depends on who benefits. All about money and power. Same as it ever was.So, what's your argument? More war? Against a nuclear-armed opponent? Which 'weakness' against evil is ok & which is not? Plenty of evil to oppose. What about China's evil genocide of the Uyghur? Do we go back to Afghanistan? The Taliban have continued their evil ways.
What's the end game in Ukraine? Keep funding the zombie? China wants us to continue the war, not end it.
We need to know where that money is going. Wonder how much kickbacks these senators and Biden is getting out of this.Interesting that those guys discussed Ukrainian corruption for nearly ten minutes and there was not a single word about the Russian gangster who runs a kleptocracy and openly assassinates the reporters and opposition figures who dare stand against him. It was Putin who launched this war and Putin is the one who says over and over again his goal is to reconstitute the USSR.
There’s never been a modern war zone that was corruption free. So we just let what is by far the most corrupt nation state on the planet, one that has clearly stated expansionists goals, roll over a European democracy?
There’s another thread about how evil China is and I tend to agree. China is watching how the west handles Ukraine very, very closely. Hand Ukraine to Putin now and their suspicion that the west lacks the will to oppose evil regimes is confirmed.
So I have a questions for many on this thread, I've heard lots of reason why we shouldn't aid Ukraine. What are the benefits for letting Putin invade/annex Ukraine exposing the following NATO member countries boarders to an aggressive Russia?
Poland
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
and pretty much have total control of the Black Sea except for the Turkish Straits. Why is it in the U.S's best interest to let this happen?
How do you stop them? He's not going to invade a NATO country. It's not good...but, I've yet to hear a valid way to stop Russia without the US entering the war.So I have a questions for many on this thread, I've heard lots of reason why we shouldn't aid Ukraine. What are the benefits for letting Putin invade/annex Ukraine exposing the following NATO member countries boarders to an aggressive Russia?
Poland
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
and pretty much have total control of the Black Sea except for the Turkish Straits. Why is it in the U.S's best interest to let this happen?
Myself and every Dem agrees we need accountability. We got fleeced by the Afghanis to the tune of $2T dollars and they couldn't last 2 months with US backing. I want to know where every cent is goingWe need to know where that money is going. Wonder how much kickbacks these senators and Biden is getting out of this.
We got fleeced by the Afghanis to the tune of $2T dollars and they couldn't last 2 months with US backing. I want to know where every cent is going
You my friend are wrong we give Iran money and we are doing very little opposing them.Kind of. There is not really another similar example we can reasonably compare to the first full-on invasion of a sovereign European (yes, that matters) country since 1941.
We spend billions every year opposing Iran, given I think you can include all of the support for Israel in that equation, right?are
I'm definitely not pro-war, but Russia is a nakedly expansionist regime and history has taught us that a leader like Putin does not just wake up one day and say, yeah, that's enough. Deal with him now or deal with him later.So, what's your argument? More war? Against a nuclear-armed opponent? Which 'weakness' against evil is ok & which is not? Plenty of evil to oppose. What about China's evil genocide of the Uyghur? Do we go back to Afghanistan? The Taliban have continued their evil ways.
What's the end game in Ukraine? Keep funding the zombie? China wants us to continue the war, not end it.
NATO is corrupt and is the cause of most of this.So I have a questions for many on this thread, I've heard lots of reason why we shouldn't aid Ukraine. What are the benefits for letting Putin invade/annex Ukraine exposing the following NATO member countries boarders to an aggressive Russia?
Poland
Hungary
Romania
Bulgaria
and pretty much have total control of the Black Sea except for the Turkish Straits. Why is it in the U.S's best interest to let this happen?
Also there are signs this is having a negative effect on Putin. Right now tens of thousands of Russian are suffering through the coldest winter in decades with no heat. Think about that, -30 and no heat in the middle of a Russian winter. Wives are going all the way to Ukraine just in hopes of bringing their husbands home from war. Civil unrest there is starting to reach critical mass and if we can speed it along I saw we should.I'm definitely not pro-war, but Russia is a nakedly expansionist regime and history has taught us that a leader like Putin does not just wake up one day and say, yeah, that's enough. Deal with him now or deal with him later.
So, if we tie this back to the start of the thread, my argument is that the existence of fraud in Ukraine is not reason enough to end our support. Of course, we should push for accountability regarding our aid to Ukraine, just as we should across every aspect of our massive DOD budgets.
Ukraine is making Russian forces suffer meaningful losses, and as long as they maintain the will and we continue to provide the equipment, we have every reason to believe Ukraine can continue to punish Russia for some time. They are defending their homeland, and the force multiplier of modern technology plays in their favor.
Do you think that if we end support now and Putin gets his way, that Russia somehow becomes less and not more of a threat?
We didn't deal with him previously...and how far are you willing to go in the future? There is no good answer here. We've been inconsistent with him over multiple administrations, and have no way of directly stopping him, outside of war, if he chooses to invade another country. What's the plan? Hope that he gives up? Hope that he doesn't do it again? Throwing money at Ukraine is a highly inefficient way of "dealing" with him.I'm definitely not pro-war, but Russia is a nakedly expansionist regime and history has taught us that a leader like Putin does not just wake up one day and say, yeah, that's enough. Deal with him now or deal with him later.
It's reason to reassess the wildly irresponsible way we have spent and even sent cash. There should have been a plan, not tied to emotionally throwing money at a problem. I'm fine with responsible aid, tied to a specific strategy, with demonstrably helpful ways to defeat or dissuade Russia from continuing to fight.So, if we tie this back to the start of the thread, my argument is that the existence of fraud in Ukraine is not reason enough to end our support. Of course, we should push for accountability regarding our aid to Ukraine, just as we should across every aspect of our massive DOD budgets.
Ukraine is making Russian forces suffer meaningful losses, and as long as they maintain the will and we continue to provide the equipment, we have every reason to believe Ukraine can continue to punish Russia for some time. They are defending their homeland, and the force multiplier of modern technology plays in their favor.
Do you think that if we end support now and Putin gets his way, that Russia somehow becomes less and not more of a threat?
Probably just a bunch of fall guys. That government is reportedly one of the most corrupt on earth
Odd, I just read that Putin was never more popular with the Russian people. Reckon it just depends on who's propaganda one listens to. Don't remember where I saw that, but it sure is two opposing pov's.Also there are signs this is having a negative effect on Putin. Right now tens of thousands of Russian are suffering through the coldest winter in decades with no heat. Think about that, -30 and no heat in the middle of a Russian winter. Wives are going all the way to Ukraine just in hopes of bringing their husbands home from war. Civil unrest there is starting to reach critical mass and if we can speed it along I saw we should.
Seeing that Putin has crushed or killed all opposition within Russia, I'd discount the validity of any polls coming originating in that country.Odd, I just read that Putin was never more popular with the Russian people. Reckon it just depends on who's propaganda one listens to. Don't remember where I saw that, but it sure is two opposing pov's.
So wouldn't we want to take that safe haven away from Russia/Putin and bring them into the fold of other western nations?Absolutely it is. The money laundering capital of the globe. It’s kinda like a Russian mafia state with absolutely zero rules.
And oursThey are a cheap investment when you consider that they are destroying Russia's Military capabilities.
So wouldn't we want to take that safe haven away from Russia/Putin and bring them into the fold of other western nations?