ADVERTISEMENT

What’s the helicopter doing?

Yes, he did. Go to 24:35.



He also signed a "presidential memorandum" yesterday blaming Biden and DEI policies for a drop in aviation safety. I'm sure that had zero to do with an effort to apportion blame for the incident that happened less than 24 hours prior.

That took me to the reporter saying he blamed it on DEI. He never blamed this incident on DEI. He actually stated vision was probably the problem. He did say DEI hiring has compromised FAA overall and could have impacted this situation. He clearly said he didn’t know if this specific incident was impacted by the policies.
 
It’s been reported that there is typically a dedicated helicopter controller for night time operations and that night, one controller was responsible for planes and helicopters. This is considered understaffed but not against operating rules.

Regardless, one of the two aircraft was not at the proper altitude (obviously) and it seems more likely than not that it was the Black Hawk.

It’s unfortunate but unsurprising that the POTUS decided to hold a rambling press conference and sign a proclamation (really?) assigning blame for the crash to DEI policies before the victims were even out of the water. Seems both premature and with no basis in fact.
Gonna agree with you here. I think the DEI discussion is legit but now is not the time. Didn’t like it. Next week in a press conference having the DEI discussion within the context of making sure we have the best and brightest ATC’s…..referencing the crash but not directly blaming DEI…..would have been the right way to go.
 
Gonna agree with you here. I think the DEI discussion is legit but now is not the time. Didn’t like it. Next week in a press conference having the DEI discussion within the context of making sure we have the best and brightest ATC’s…..referencing the crash but not directly blaming DEI…..would have been the right way to go.
Now I do agree there is a more tactful time/place to address the impact DEI policies have had on the FAA and other agencies.
 
Gonna agree with you here. I think the DEI discussion is legit but now is not the time. Didn’t like it. Next week in a press conference having the DEI discussion within the context of making sure we have the best and brightest ATC’s…..referencing the crash but not directly blaming DEI…..would have been the right way to go.
This is a great analysis of what happened for anyone interested.

 
That took me to the reporter saying he blamed it on DEI. He never blamed this incident on DEI. He actually stated vision was probably the problem. He did say DEI hiring has compromised FAA overall and could have impacted this situation. He clearly said he didn’t know if this specific incident was impacted by the policies.
He made conflicting statements on DEI being a cause, often insinuating it was likely. Now that he has fired everyone in an inspection role who doesn’t agree with him, you can bet the upcoming investigation will find a way to blame DEI, whether it was really a factor or not.
 
Now that he has fired everyone in an inspection role who doesn’t agree with him
IGs and NTSB Accident Investigators are two different things. IGs are not accident investigators. They inspect the organizations they are assigned to. The will not be involved unless the NTSB finds an issue related to the accident that would fall under their jurisdiction.

I'm an AF Aircraft Mishap Investigator. I've had experience with several major investigations and was the Board President of an aircraft mishap about 18 months ago. So, for example: the DoD IG (who was just fired) plays no part of an AF Safety Investigation (SIB, used to prevent future mishaps, not releasable to the public) or the AF Accident Investigation (AIB, the investigation that is publicly releasable). No IG plays any part in the conclusions of any accident investigation. There are legal rules and regulations that keep them completely separate entities.
 
He made conflicting statements on DEI being a cause, often insinuating it was likely. Now that he has fired everyone in an inspection role who doesn’t agree with him, you can bet the upcoming investigation will find a way to blame DEI, whether it was really a factor or not.

dd9nsgy-69cac871-a4f0-4905-9871-d395f31032cd.gif
 
This is a great analysis of what happened for anyone interested.

His analysis was similar to a black hawk pilot i listened too, just draw a different conclusion on who to blame. Black hawk pilot blamed air traffic coordinator. I have no idea, their analysis was similar, their conclusion slightly different.

One of my friends is a pilot with a major airline, they have been very vocal about recent hires (specifically from an African Country) being several steps below the standard trained American Pilot. Talked about it last year and specifically referenced DEI.

I heard Miller talk about the DEI issues and substandard hires across all agencies from Biden and Obama era, i think its MOST LIKELY dead on, but again this discussion should be down the road.

Trump should do less press conferences, always defensive and always tries to show he is smarter than our previous Presidents.

I actually think most of what the administration has done thus far is palatable for most, these type press conferences and comments give way to must fire his distractors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirty Hairy Dawg
IGs and NTSB Accident Investigators are two different things. IGs are not accident investigators. They inspect the organizations they are assigned to. The will not be involved unless the NTSB finds an issue related to the accident that would fall under their jurisdiction.

I'm an AF Aircraft Mishap Investigator. I've had experience with several major investigations and was the Board President of an aircraft mishap about 18 months ago. So, for example: the DoD IG (who was just fired) plays no part of an AF Safety Investigation (SIB, used to prevent future mishaps, not releasable to the public) or the AF Accident Investigation (AIB, the investigation that is publicly releasable). No IG plays any part in the conclusions of any accident investigation. There are legal rules and regulations that keep them completely separate entities.
Interesting information. So just to make sure I understand your position: Trump, his new FAA Director, and the loyal congressional mob will have no impact whatsoever on the investigation findings. Is that right?

I’m highly skeptical. This is a chance to score easy political points for Trump and there’s no way he will not maximize that opportunity by putting a full court press on the investigators. It began yesterday when Trump said it’s highly likely DEI was a factor because it was “common sense.”
 
Last edited:
Interesting information. So just to make sure I understand your position: Trump, his new FAA Director, and the loyal congressional mob will have no impact whatsoever on the investigation findings. Is that right?

I’m highly skeptical. This is a chance to score easy political points for Trump and there’s no way he will not maximize that opportunity by putting a full court press on the investigators. It began yesterday when Trump said it’s highly likely DEI was a factor because it was “common sense.”
Evidently, there is a lawsuit against the FAA for refusing to hire qualified individuals based on the desire to hire minorities. One candidate with a perfect score on the ATC test was told he was being rejected because they were streamlining the app process. That doesn't mean a bad employee caused the crash but it could mean an overworked employee may have missed something that would have been caught if the tower was staffed with 30 competent controllers instead of 19 guys, some of which were handling double duty.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/...ollers-based-on-race-what-we-know/ar-AA1ybtsI
 
Last edited:
Interesting information. So just to make sure I understand your position: Trump, his new FAA Director, and the loyal congressional mob will have no impact whatsoever on the investigation findings. Is that right?

I’m highly skeptical. This is a chance to score easy political points for Trump and there’s no way he will not maximize that opportunity by putting a full court press on the investigators. It began yesterday when Trump said it’s highly likely DEI was a factor because it was “common sense.”
Investigation Boards are independent. They report what they find...to change anything w/o evidence, based solely on politics or outside pressure would potentially be criminal and go against the reason we investigate anything.

To put it another way: If you didn't report accurately what you found, you're potentially allowing whatever happened to happen again...I would personally not be able to live with myself if I did that and there was potential for the same thing to happen again (and have more people die). NTSB investigators are not political. They're highly-experienced and exist to prevent future mishaps.

To defend his point: If there was a shortage of controllers, it absolutely is "common sense", since there is currently a class-action lawsuit from when qualified individuals were denied jobs in favor of those that fit within DEI principles. There is a ton of information about that.

I have no idea if that played a part and I do not like anybody (let alone POTUS) declaring what a cause is before an investigation completes. But, I understand his perspective since his own regulations were rolled back under Biden and "near misses" increased exponentially in the past 4 years.

But, as I said previously...there is rarely just "one factor" that holds the totality of blame.
 
Interesting information. So just to make sure I understand your position: Trump, his new FAA Director, and the loyal congressional mob will have no impact whatsoever on the investigation findings. Is that right?

I’m highly skeptical. This is a chance to score easy political points for Trump and there’s no way he will not maximize that opportunity by putting a full court press on the investigators. It began yesterday when Trump said it’s highly likely DEI was a factor because it was “common sense.”
I'll also add: Accident reports are based on evidence & indisputable facts of the incident. You're not going to draw conclusions w/o it being based on something and when a conclusion is drawn from an "educated guess", it's abundantly clear.
 
Investigation Boards are independent. They report what they find...to change anything w/o evidence, based solely on politics or outside pressure would potentially be criminal and go against the reason we investigate anything.

To put it another way: If you didn't report accurately what you found, you're potentially allowing whatever happened to happen again...I would personally not be able to live with myself if I did that and there was potential for the same thing to happen again (and have more people die). NTSB investigators are not political. They're highly-experienced and exist to prevent future mishaps.

To defend his point: If there was a shortage of controllers, it absolutely is "common sense", since there is currently a class-action lawsuit from when qualified individuals were denied jobs in favor of those that fit within DEI principles. There is a ton of information about that.

I have no idea if that played a part and I do not like anybody (let alone POTUS) declaring what a cause is before an investigation completes. But, I understand his perspective since his own regulations were rolled back under Biden and "near misses" increased exponentially in the past 4 years.

But, as I said previously...there is rarely just "one factor" that holds the totality of blame.
Appreciate the info. We shall see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moosefish
To defend his point: If there was a shortage of controllers, it absolutely is "common sense", since there is currently a class-action lawsuit from when qualified individuals were denied jobs in favor of those that fit within DEI principles. There is a ton of information about that.

For those interested in the specifics of the lawsuit/issue I referenced above, HERE is a summary of the class action lawsuit. Please note that the post (which is a easier to read copy of the tweet below) was written almost exactly a year before the the accident discussed in this thread. This has been an ongoing issue for more than a decade. The tweet, which summarizes almost everything, but is very long:

 
  • Like
Reactions: Dirty Hairy Dawg
For those interested in the specifics of the lawsuit/issue I referenced above, HERE is a summary of the class action lawsuit.
Thanks for posting this link. As a person that is always skeptical of government and is never surprised by the lunacy of some institutionalized group think, that thread still surprised me. Not only is the policy most likely unconstitutional, the thought that our nation's press has largely ignored this type of lunacy is mind boggling.

I don't think I know a single person that wouldn't want any qualified minority or disabled person to be equally considered for a job based on their ability to perform the job. Otoh, I don't think I know a single person that would be in favor of a "questionnaire" that eliminated a high number of qualified applicants for a job that is historically hard to staff. Maybe if this policy wasn't in force, the DCA tower would have been staffed with closer to 30 ATCs than 20 and nobody would have been pulling double duty.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moosefish
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT