Interesting on Biden gaining ground….

[zingerdawg]

I don't doubt significant dissatisfaction with the economy. Inflation has been brutal.

But polling aside, voters clearly demonstrated in 2020 and 2022 that they find MAGA extremism unpalatable. Election fraud conspiracies, and draconian abortion policies alone have killed MAGA candidates.

We all know that Trump is not going to move to the middle between now and November and, while he knows that abortion policy is a major liability, he's hamstrung by the fact that a lot of the MAGA powerbrokers will continue to promote deeply unpopular abortion policies.

As we've seen this week, Trump hawking bibles to raise funds to help pay for his defense in a trial involving a porn star payoff seems to not bother MAGA and evangelicals at all. Go figure. But I suspect younger voters, independents and many female voters find it abhorrent. We are sure to see more of the same moving forward.

Very few people are going to be excited when they cast a vote for sleepy Joe, but Trump catering to his MAGA base will continue to drive people to hold their nose and vote Dem.

I am going to try a different approach here. Will, I know what trump is. I know what I am voting for if I vote for him. But you want to act like trump is more evil than Biden. There was a witness who was pretty damn believable on the stand this past week saying Joe and hunter were selling out the country. Joe will side step this I am sure. Because he is a Democrat. The same way Trump had no legal issues till he became a pub and not a generous Dem donor. Trump was willing to come to the middle on abortion. He just proved that. Will Biden? Only if the string pullers and polling says so.

It is the policy that comes with Trump right now that we need. He has proven he will govern toward the middle. Will, you guys are so far left right now it is hilarious. Like supremacy far right. This is how far left you are with policy. Critical race theory is no different. It is being taught in schools. Being taught at uga matter of fact. Where kids are afraid to even state their opinion. He only governs for 25 percent of the country. The elitist left, and controls the rest of the Dem vote by fear. Fear of what Trump will do to them or their benefits. Proof. “They will put you back in chains”. “They will cut off you ss and Medicare benefits.” “They will tell you how to handle your own bodies”

Biden hasn’t offered one policy fix. Because he doesn’t think anything is broken. Just like other Dems in this thread. Which is the most dangerous opinion out there. Every poll about the economy goes against the numbers. Yet no Democrat wants to believe it.

Here is an example I will leave you with. This lady paid into a system her whole life that has failed her. Just to add a little insult to injury, illegal immigration and sanctuary cities kicked her in the ovaries. Said we don’t care that you have been a loyal tax paying American your whole life. Illegals come first and can kick you out of line if necessary. This is what you are supporting with a vote for Biden. It is evil to its very core. You used to be a middle ground person. You claim Trump won’t come to the middle. Where do you think Biden is governing will? Holy shit. Left of left of left of left. Come on man.



Don’t believe me stone or sho. Believe her then.

 

[mitchelldawg]

I am going to try a different approach here. Will, I know what trump is. I know what I am voting for if I vote for him. But you want to act like trump is more evil than Biden. There was a witness who was pretty damn believable on the stand this past week saying Joe and hunter were selling out the country. Joe will side step this I am sure. Because he is a Democrat. The same way Trump had no legal issues till he became a pub and not a generous Dem donor. Trump was willing to come to the middle on abortion. He just proved that. Will Biden? Only if the string pullers and polling says so.

It is the policy that comes with Trump right now that we need. He has proven he will govern toward the middle. Will, you guys are so far left right now it is hilarious. Like supremacy far right. This is how far left you are with policy. Critical race theory is no different. It is being taught in schools. Being taught at uga matter of fact. Where kids are afraid to even state their opinion. He only governs for 25 percent of the country. The elitist left, and controls the rest of the Dem vote by fear. Fear of what Trump will do to them or their benefits. Proof. “They will put you back in chains”. “They will cut off you ss and Medicare benefits.” “They will tell you how to handle your own bodies”

Biden hasn’t offered one policy fix. Because he doesn’t think anything is broken. Just like other Dems in this thread. Which is the most dangerous opinion out there. Every poll about the economy goes against the numbers. Yet no Democrat wants to believe it.

Here is an example I will leave you with. This lady paid into a system her whole life that has failed her. Just to add a little insult to injury, illegal immigration and sanctuary cities kicked her in the ovaries. Said we don’t care that you have been a loyal tax paying American your whole life. Illegals come first and can kick you out of line if necessary. This is what you are supporting with a vote for Biden. It is evil to its very core. You used to be a middle ground person. You claim Trump won’t come to the middle. Where do you think Biden is governing will? Holy shit. Left of left of left of left. Come on man.

View embedded media

Don’t believe me stone or sho. Believe her then.

Man, that lady is the real deal. So sad. She reminds me of my Mom.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[willdup]

I am going to try a different approach here. Will, I know what trump is. I know what I am voting for if I vote for him. But you want to act like trump is more evil than Biden. There was a witness who was pretty damn believable on the stand this past week saying Joe and hunter were selling out the country. Joe will side step this I am sure. Because he is a Democrat. The same way Trump had no legal issues till he became a pub and not a generous Dem donor. Trump was willing to come to the middle on abortion. He just proved that. Will Biden? Only if the string pullers and polling says so.

It is the policy that comes with Trump right now that we need. He has proven he will govern toward the middle. Will, you guys are so far left right now it is hilarious. Like supremacy far right. This is how far left you are with policy. Critical race theory is no different. It is being taught in schools. Being taught at uga matter of fact. Where kids are afraid to even state their opinion. He only governs for 25 percent of the country. The elitist left, and controls the rest of the Dem vote by fear. Fear of what Trump will do to them or their benefits. Proof. “They will put you back in chains”. “They will cut off you ss and Medicare benefits.” “They will tell you how to handle your own bodies”

Biden hasn’t offered one policy fix. Because he doesn’t think anything is broken. Just like other Dems in this thread. Which is the most dangerous opinion out there. Every poll about the economy goes against the numbers. Yet no Democrat wants to believe it.

Here is an example I will leave you with. This lady paid into a system her whole life that has failed her. Just to add a little insult to injury, illegal immigration and sanctuary cities kicked her in the ovaries. Said we don’t care that you have been a loyal tax paying American your whole life. Illegals come first and can kick you out of line if necessary. This is what you are supporting with a vote for Biden. It is evil to its very core. You used to be a middle ground person. You claim Trump won’t come to the middle. Where do you think Biden is governing will? Holy shit. Left of left of left of left. Come on man.

View embedded media

Don’t believe me stone or sho. Believe her then.

Zinger, I've promised myself not to spend hours going back and forth with you because it's always the same conversation with the same outcome.

It's also why I have attempted to couch more of my contributions in these discussion from my perspective on the independent and lower involvement voters who will decide the election. At this point, everyone knows who I am voting for and why, so no need to keep explaining myself.

I believe that ongoing lies about election fraud, praising and promising to pardon violent felons, promising a political loyalty test for the civil service, punitive GOP abortion policies and crap like that crazy-ass USA Bible infomercial this week will not be perceived as the positions and actions of a moderate candidate or party. I think GOP underperformance in 2018, 2020 and 2022, and they absolutely did underperform, prove this out.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything at this point. I'm simply saying that I think Trump will lose because he shows every day that he is anything but a moderate candidate leading a moderate party. I also understand you will make the same accusations about the Dems.

We will find out in November which of us is correct.

Cheers.

 

[jlstone412]

No. Again that is spinning the poll. If you want to claim it being binary to make someone nonbinary feel better fine. But it isn’t the case. The question is has Biden done anything to make middle class life better. 16 percent said he had done a lot. The rest said nothing or very little. That is why the poll was released with bad info for Joe.

You continue to also gloss over the most important take of the poll. 29 percent of independents said he has helped their middle class family. No agenda. That is the most damning part. Which the article even explained how party lines can monkey a poll up. Sho asked for proof of what I was saying. I gave him proof. There are several polls saying this very same thing. That was the most recent.

The people keep telling the left things are bad for them. They keep ignoring them and telling them we will let you know when they are bad. Sound strategy.

I'm not the one spinning anything. This is literally the poll question:

7.How much have each of the following groups benefited from President Biden’s policies so far? [READ ITEM] – Have they benefited a lot, a little, or not at all? [ITEMS WERE ROTATED]​

Middle class families​

Comparison:	Feb. 2024	March 2023	June 2022	Nov. 2021	July 2021	June 2021	Benefited under Trump	Jan. 2021	April 2019	April 2018	Dec. 2017	Benefited under Obama	Jan. 2017	July 2013
Benefited a lot	16%	10%	7%	14%	21%	19%		32%	18%	14%	11%		24%	12%
Benefited a little	33%	36%	34%	39%	41%	32%		33%	37%	45%	25%		41%	39%
Benefited not at all	45%	51%	54%	42%	33%	36%		32%	36%	36%	53%		33%	46%
(VOL) Don’t know	7%	3%	5%	5%	5%	14%		3%	9%	5%	11%		2%	2%
(n)	(902)

You keep saying "very little". That's spin on your part. That wasn't even an answer choice.

Of the answer choices above, 2 are positive (a lot or a little), 1 negative (not at all) and 1 neutral (don't know). The results show about a 50/50 split on the question between positive and negative responses (I'm conceding "don't know" as a negative response as it is not a positive one). 49%-52% (rounding on their part?) When the choices are binary.

The important part of the data set is he appears to be trending back to 2021 peaks. Hes lagging trump 2019 poll numbers slightly. His numbers keep ticking up gradually. And that is actually a good sign for Biden and not "doom and gloom" as some would think. We find out inflation info tomorrow... curious as to what comes out vs forecasts.

Unfairly, the Baltimore bridge collapse will hurt him in these polls unless he has a great response to get the port open and functional quickly. But it's the government so we all know how efficient that beast is...

 

[zingerdawg]

I'm not the one spinning anything. This is literally the poll question:

7.How much have each of the following groups benefited from President Biden’s policies so far? [READ ITEM] – Have they benefited a lot, a little, or not at all? [ITEMS WERE ROTATED]​

Middle class families​

Comparison:	Feb. 2024	March 2023	June 2022	Nov. 2021	July 2021	June 2021	Benefited under Trump	Jan. 2021	April 2019	April 2018	Dec. 2017	Benefited under Obama	Jan. 2017	July 2013
Benefited a lot	16%	10%	7%	14%	21%	19%		32%	18%	14%	11%		24%	12%
Benefited a little	33%	36%	34%	39%	41%	32%		33%	37%	45%	25%		41%	39%
Benefited not at all	45%	51%	54%	42%	33%	36%		32%	36%	36%	53%		33%	46%
(VOL) Don’t know	7%	3%	5%	5%	5%	14%		3%	9%	5%	11%		2%	2%
(n)	(902)

You keep saying "very little". That's spin on your part. That wasn't even an answer choice.

Of the answer choices above, 2 are positive (a lot or a little), 1 negative (not at all) and 1 neutral (don't know). The results show about a 50/50 split on the question between positive and negative responses (I'm conceding "don't know" as a negative response as it is not a positive one). 49%-52% (rounding on their part?) When the choices are binary.

The important part of the data set is he appears to be trending back to 2021 peaks. Hes lagging trump 2019 poll numbers slightly. His numbers keep ticking up gradually. And that is actually a good sign for Biden and not "doom and gloom" as some would think. We find out inflation info tomorrow... curious as to what comes out vs forecasts.

Unfairly, the Baltimore bridge collapse will hurt him in these polls unless he has a great response to get the port open and functional quickly. But it's the government so we all know how efficient that beast is...

I am going to put this out there for the fourth time. The big takeaway was the independent percentage. 29 percent. That one you can’t spin.

A little, vs very little. Basically the same damn thing. It is amazing. You guys can try to spin anything. Literally anything. Tell you what. I know you won’t watch the video I posted above. But please watch until the end, don’t believe me fine, believe her. My op in this was the numbers and what is happening out there don’t match up at all. That is where I started before you hijacked it to say 50/50 is what I heard not taking in account the tenor of the poll. Nor the most important piece. The independent piece of it.

I agreed with you early on the Baltimore incident. It will cause problems. Well. Around this time before Trump was to be elected Covid hit. Wasn’t fair to him either,(he damn sure didn’t start it) and likely cost him the election. Even though in the end Biden had more people die on his watch. Because no one knew how to handle it. It is no more Biden’s fault than Trump.

I hate that tragedy in Baltimore happened. One of the staff here(on this board) lives in that area. Didn’t hear from him for a bit. I admit i was worried for a minute.

Watch till the end and tell me my point about the numbers not matching up with what is happening is wrong. I have heard this same basic speech at the end of the video 200 times in the last year.

 

[zingerdawg]

Man, that lady is the real deal. So sad. She reminds me of my Mom.
Thanks for sharing.

It broke my heart. It is my mom. She taught school for 30’years. Makes me literally sick to my stomach. Luckily she and my dad are both still here and they have two teacher retirements. They are hanging in while being frugal as hell. If my dad passed after his stroke, twenty years ago, that would be her. Or she would be living with us.

 

[zingerdawg]

Zinger, I've promised myself not to spend hours going back and forth with you because it's always the same conversation with the same outcome.

It's also why I have attempted to couch more of my contributions in these discussion from my perspective on the independent and lower involvement voters who will decide the election. At this point, everyone knows who I am voting for and why, so no need to keep explaining myself.

I believe that ongoing lies about election fraud, praising and promising to pardon violent felons, promising a political loyalty test for the civil service, punitive GOP abortion policies and crap like that crazy-ass USA Bible infomercial this week will not be perceived as the positions and actions of a moderate candidate or party. I think GOP underperformance in 2018, 2020 and 2022, and they absolutely did underperform, prove this out.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything at this point. I'm simply saying that I think Trump will lose because he shows every day that he is anything but a moderate candidate leading a moderate party. I also understand you will make the same accusations about the Dems.

We will find out in November which of us is correct.

Cheers.

Doing the same. Have been avoiding the back and forth as well. That is why I tried to change the approach when you responded to me.

What kills me is I don’t disagree with you about trump. But Biden is damn sure left of left. Governing and in his newly formed opinions. Because he was a middle ground Democrat 20 years ago for sure. You won’t budge on that, but you know Trump for all of his mouth. Still governed from the middle, when it comes to the brass tax. That is what is needed. Not more progressive horseshit.

 

[PotimusWillie]

Trump said he is for a ban on abortion after 15 weeks.
I wonder if that is OK with his huge evangelical support.

Gonna have to be. From my perspective, Pandora’s box was opened and it changed everything.

When killing conceived life was sold to us as a personal rights issue instead of a sanctity of life issue, there is no turning back.

We are told we are God, but we aren’t. We have been cleverly deceived.

So 15 weeks it is. It beats ripping the head off a child right before or after birth.

Have to win battles in increments regarding the innocent.

 

[jlstone412]

I am going to put this out there for the fourth time. The big takeaway was the independent percentage. 29 percent. That one you can’t spin.

A little, vs very little. Basically the same damn thing. It is amazing. You guys can try to spin anything. Literally anything. Tell you what. I know you won’t watch the video I posted above. But please watch until the end, don’t believe me fine, believe her. My op in this was the numbers and what is happening out there don’t match up at all. That is where I started before you hijacked it to say 50/50 is what I heard not taking in account the tenor of the poll. Nor the most important piece. The independent piece of it.

I agreed with you early on the Baltimore incident. It will cause problems. Well. Around this time before Trump was to be elected Covid hit. Wasn’t fair to him either,(he damn sure didn’t start it) and likely cost him the election. Even though in the end Biden had more people die on his watch. Because no one knew how to handle it. It is no more Biden’s fault than Trump. I hate that tragedy happened. One of the staff here(on this board) lives in that area. Didn’t hear from him for a bit. I admit i was worried for a minute. Watch till the end and tell me my point about the numbers not matching up with what is happening is wrong. I have heard this same basic speech at the end of the video 200 times in the last year.

View embedded media

But see this is where words matter. "a little" vs "very little" are not the same thing, or they would've phrased responses that way. The poll doesn't say what you claim it says on middle class sentiment. I'm sorry, but that is important to context if we are going to have legitimate discourse.

I haven't tried to spin the independent number at any point; I need more context on how many independents are being polled to really provide an opinion. That matters here. If 10 are polled and 3 approve, that's not a good sample size for the overall population. If 300 are polled and 100 approve, it's better (I'd like to see more) and paints a slightly more accurate picture. That's my beef with polls. People rely on/read into them WAY too much. I admit Biden has work to do with independents. That much is clear and no objection from me. This election will be won on those margins.

On the Baltimore bit, wasn't rehashing anything with you but adding further context on how current events affect polling responses. Apologies for the redundancy there.

I will watch the video and provide thoughts if I feel compelled. Again, the context of the video is important (I dont know the context at this point).

 

[zingerdawg]

But see this is where words matter. "a little" vs "very little" are not the same thing, or they would've phrased responses that way. The poll doesn't say what you claim it says on middle class sentiment. I'm sorry, but that is important to context if we are going to have legitimate discourse.

I haven't tried to spin the independent number at any point; I need more context on how many independents are being polled to really provide an opinion. That matters here. If 10 are polled and 3 approve, that's not a good sample size for the overall population. If 300 are polled and 100 approve, it's better (I'd like to see more) and paints a slightly more accurate picture. That's my beef with polls. People rely on/read into them WAY too much. I admit Biden has work to do with independents. That much is clear and no objection from me. This election will be won on those margins.

On the Baltimore bit, wasn't rehashing anything with you but adding further context on how current events affect polling responses. Apologies for the redundancy there.

I will watch the video and provide thoughts if I feel compelled. Again, the context of the video is important (I dont know the context at this point).

It is in the article about the poll. How the numbers are skewed some due to policy lines. But the tenor of the poll, and that answer a little, meant dissatisfaction or at least not totally satisfied. 45 percent said he had been terrible to the middle class. 16 percent said he has been great. There is a big difference between those numbers. You adding the 33 to the 16 to get to 50 is spin brother. Do you see what I am getting at. I understand your point. No need to explain it. I get what you are saying. 45 to 16 is a bad spread. No matter how you slice it. That is not satisfied at all vs completely satisfied.

I appreciate you being willing to want to learn more about the independent polling. That to me was a biggie.

My main point stone was just to provide some proof that sho was asking for. I didn’t have time when he first asked. I went back and posted two huge differences in opinion. Between an expert and the people. My argument. Then posted a testimonial from a woman saying the same things I have been claiming are happening here in my office every week. All I am getting at brother. You are a great new addition to the chat. You are reasonable and level headed. I appreciate that. Despite your political leanings. I can’t fix that.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

I'm not the one spinning anything. This is literally the poll question:

7.How much have each of the following groups benefited from President Biden’s policies so far? [READ ITEM] – Have they benefited a lot, a little, or not at all? [ITEMS WERE ROTATED]​

Middle class families​

Comparison:	Feb. 2024	March 2023	June 2022	Nov. 2021	July 2021	June 2021	Benefited under Trump	Jan. 2021	April 2019	April 2018	Dec. 2017	Benefited under Obama	Jan. 2017	July 2013
Benefited a lot	16%	10%	7%	14%	21%	19%		32%	18%	14%	11%		24%	12%
Benefited a little	33%	36%	34%	39%	41%	32%		33%	37%	45%	25%		41%	39%
Benefited not at all	45%	51%	54%	42%	33%	36%		32%	36%	36%	53%		33%	46%
(VOL) Don’t know	7%	3%	5%	5%	5%	14%		3%	9%	5%	11%		2%	2%
(n)	(902)

You keep saying "very little". That's spin on your part. That wasn't even an answer choice.

Of the answer choices above, 2 are positive (a lot or a little), 1 negative (not at all) and 1 neutral (don't know). The results show about a 50/50 split on the question between positive and negative responses (I'm conceding "don't know" as a negative response as it is not a positive one). 49%-52% (rounding on their part?) When the choices are binary.

The important part of the data set is he appears to be trending back to 2021 peaks. Hes lagging trump 2019 poll numbers slightly. His numbers keep ticking up gradually. And that is actually a good sign for Biden and not "doom and gloom" as some would think. We find out inflation info tomorrow... curious as to what comes out vs forecasts.

Unfairly, the Baltimore bridge collapse will hurt him in these polls unless he has a great response to get the port open and functional quickly. But it's the government so we all know how efficient that beast is...

Yeah just as Covid hurt Trump.

 

[shonuff253]

No. Again that is spinning the poll. If you want to claim it being binary to make someone nonbinary feel better fine. But it isn’t the case. The question is has Biden done anything to make middle class life better. 16 percent said he had done a lot. The rest said nothing or very little. That is why the poll was released with bad info for Joe.

You continue to also gloss over the most important take of the poll. 29 percent of independents said he has helped their middle class family. No agenda. That is the most damning part. Which the article even explained how party lines can monkey a poll up. Sho asked for proof of what I was saying. I gave him proof. There are several polls saying this very same thing. That was the most recent.

The people keep telling the left things are bad for them. They keep ignoring them and telling them we will let you know when they are bad. Sound strategy.

Polls like this are useless because people political affiliation biases responses. Cases and point, a poster here said that the Trump economy coming out of COVID was stronger than the economy Obama left Trump...that's insanity.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

Zinger, I've promised myself not to spend hours going back and forth with you because it's always the same conversation with the same outcome.

It's also why I have attempted to couch more of my contributions in these discussion from my perspective on the independent and lower involvement voters who will decide the election. At this point, everyone knows who I am voting for and why, so no need to keep explaining myself.

I believe that ongoing lies about election fraud, praising and promising to pardon violent felons, promising a political loyalty test for the civil service, punitive GOP abortion policies and crap like that crazy-ass USA Bible infomercial this week will not be perceived as the positions and actions of a moderate candidate or party. I think GOP underperformance in 2018, 2020 and 2022, and they absolutely did underperform, prove this out.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything at this point. I'm simply saying that I think Trump will lose because he shows every day that he is anything but a moderate candidate leading a moderate party. I also understand you will make the same accusations about the Dems.

We will find out in November which of us is correct.

Cheers.

Zinger there’s no way you can reason with will he is not going to listen to anyone. He is just a puppet of the left and you might as well accept that.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

Polls like this are useless because people political affiliation biases responses. Cases and point, a poster here said that the Trump economy coming out of COVID was stronger than the economy Obama left Trump...that's insanity.

You have proof?

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Wait are you saying we had a stronger economy coming out of Trumps term than Obama?

Check the numbers greatest economic growth has been under Obama and Bidens terms

Whose numbers? Really?

Youre not answering my questions. 2016-2020 is irrelevant. Inflation and immigration are a problem in 2024. What is his plan to fix both? I see nothing but sound bites.

the answer is generally conservative principals like enforcing the laws on the books regarding immigration and loosening the handcuffs on capitalism killing regulation

The evidence is in that he did both in 2016-2020. Those policies were then reversed. And now we have whT we have. We have a DOJ that routinely Sue’s private business and stops M&A activity. Vilifies big oil and big businesses which predictably stifles investment. The capital markets in general have been frozen due to the dumbass policies of the last several years. Shutdowns and party line second stimulus made inflation much worse and DJT is clearly on the right side of history on both.

Can’t make it any clearer than that.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Yeah just as Covid hurt Trump.

Make no mistake. Covid didn’t hurt Trump. It destroyed him. He was cruising to RE-election and even liberals admitted it. Mainly because the economy was rolling.

Then Covid hits and trump becomes the scapegoat for it. History has shown that not only should he not have been blamed, his, Florida, Texas, Georgia policy have been vindicated. Blue state policy during and after Covid did more to cause inflarion than anything.

Media was literally calling Florida Texas Georgia governors murderers. How quickly we forget. Lab leak theory a trump supporting hoax. Vaccines for trump were dangerous. Then miraculously approved a week agyer the election. And they are golden.

 

[willdup]

Whose numbers? Really?

the answer is generally conservative principals like enforcing the laws on the books regarding immigration and loosening the handcuffs on capitalism killing regulation

Overall corporate profits in the US are the highest they have ever been. Specifically, the energy industry, which is particularly subject to the regulatory environment, is producing more energy (and the profits that go with that production) than any other country in history.

We have some meaningful issues with underemployment, and continued advances with AI are going to gut a number of traditional upper-middle class positions in the near future (that has nothing to do with either party, though). These are real issues, but I have no idea how DJT plans to solve for them.

Things aren't perfect, but I don't understand what data supports the idea that the current regulatory environment is some massive damper on the economy.

I do know that Trump's promised 10% tariff on foreign goods would be an absolute disaster for the consumer, inflation and our economy.

 

[shonuff253]

Make no mistake. Covid didn’t hurt Trump. It destroyed him. He was cruising to RE-election and even liberals admitted it. Mainly because the economy was rolling.

Then Covid hits and trump becomes the scapegoat for it. History has shown that not only should he not have been blamed, his, Florida, Texas, Georgia policy have been vindicated. Blue state policy during and after Covid did more to cause inflarion than anything.

Media was literally calling Florida Texas Georgia governors murderers. How quickly we forget. Lab leak theory a trump supporting hoax. Vaccines for trump were dangerous. Then miraculously approved a week agyer the election. And they are golden.

Yes 170% increase in deaths of Trump supporter counties compared to Biden supported counties...not sure how you can say Trumps strategy was a success but to each their own I suppose.

"During this third wave – which continued into early 2021 – the coronavirus death rate among the 20% of Americans living in counties that supported Trump by the highest margins in 2020 was about 170% of the death rate among the one-in-five Americans living in counties that supported Biden by the largest margins."

The Changing Political Geography of COVID-19 Over the Last Two Years

A Pew Research Center analysis of official reports of COVID-19-related deaths across the country shows how the dynamics of the pandemic have shifted over the past two years.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Athens is Heaven]

Make no mistake. Covid didn’t hurt Trump. It destroyed him. He was cruising to RE-election and even liberals admitted it. Mainly because the economy was rolling.

Then Covid hits and trump becomes the scapegoat for it. History has shown that not only should he not have been blamed, his, Florida, Texas, Georgia policy have been vindicated. Blue state policy during and after Covid did more to cause inflarion than anything.

Media was literally calling Florida Texas Georgia governors murderers. How quickly we forget. Lab leak theory a trump supporting hoax. Vaccines for trump were dangerous. Then miraculously approved a week agyer the election. And they are golden.

This virus I believe was intentionally spread from China to get Trump out of office. It was done with the blessings of the Democratic Party and they didn’t care how many people died because of it.

 

[shonuff253]

This virus I believe was intentionally spread from China to get Trump out of office. It was done with the blessings of the Democratic Party and they didn’t care how many people died because of it.

Dude did you see what China did to combat COVID and the unrest that it caused. Trump would be Prez right if he'd don't one simple thing...STFU. All he had to to was take advise from his "experts" let the speak and he would have gotten through COVID crisis but he didn't. He has to be in the spot light but he's a horrible communicator...like really really bad. Why was he trying to talk about highly technical things he has no experience in was his downfall. Stop making excuses for the man

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Overall corporate profits in the US are the highest they have ever been. Specifically, the energy industry, which is particularly subject to the regulatory environment, is producing more energy (and the profits that go with that production) than any other country in history.

We have some meaningful issues with underemployment, and continued advances with AI are going to gut a number of traditional upper-middle class positions in the near future (that has nothing to do with either party, though). These are real issues, but I have no idea how DJT plans to solve for them.

Things aren't perfect, but I don't understand what data supports the idea that the current regulatory environment is some massive damper on the economy.

I do know that Trump's promised 10% tariff on foreign goods would be an absolute disaster for the consumer, inflation and our economy.

View embedded media

Profits are higher ON THE LARGEST COMPANIES largely because of inflation. Margin expansion. Plus in any functioning company generally there should be growth. Issue is that the same inflarion helping huge companies is killing small business. Fortune 500 doesn’t care about interest rates. They don’t need financing. Small business is getting hammered. Would be home buyers getting hammered. I’ve conceded that inflation is not solely democrats fault. But their policies by definition in UGA Econ 101 class have made it a lot worse.

 

[zingerdawg]

Polls like this are useless because people political affiliation biases responses. Cases and point, a poster here said that the Trump economy coming out of COVID was stronger than the economy Obama left Trump...that's insanity.

I think you mistake me for someone else with the economy and Trump. All I said was the economy in October had an uptick and we were starting to come out of the covid recession. I didn’t look up the numbers to see whether his or Obama’s was better.

The poll could be claimed to be useless by the left. For impartiality or bipartisanship getting in the way. Except for that pesky independent poll stating 29 percent of middle class independents were happy with how Biden handles the economy. That is a real bad number. It proves what I was saying. And hard to call independents overly bipartisan.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Yes 170% increase in deaths of Trump supporter counties compared to Biden supported counties...not sure how you can say Trumps strategy was a success but to each their own I suppose.

"During this third wave – which continued into early 2021 – the coronavirus death rate among the 20% of Americans living in counties that supported Trump by the highest margins in 2020 was about 170% of the death rate among the one-in-five Americans living in counties that supported Biden by the largest margins."

The Changing Political Geography of COVID-19 Over the Last Two Years

A Pew Research Center analysis of official reports of COVID-19-related deaths across the country shows how the dynamics of the pandemic have shifted over the past two years.

www.pewresearch.org

Jesus don’t get me started. Trump supported counties? Maybe a little older and a little more obese? Try again. Bottom line we should have opened the economy and protected the vulnerable. The old and the obese. Instead we closed effing schools.

And how in any way does “Trump supporting counties” being less healthy support the idea that trumps Covid policy was wrong? Let’s see how everyone fared by age bracket and by weight in each State. Bottom line - the “murderers” in the South not only fared better, but they actually continued to live their lives and contribute to the economy.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

Overall corporate profits in the US are the highest they have ever been. Specifically, the energy industry, which is particularly subject to the regulatory environment, is producing more energy (and the profits that go with that production) than any other country in history.

We have some meaningful issues with underemployment, and continued advances with AI are going to gut a number of traditional upper-middle class positions in the near future (that has nothing to do with either party, though). These are real issues, but I have no idea how DJT plans to solve for them.

Things aren't perfect, but I don't understand what data supports the idea that the current regulatory environment is some massive damper on the economy.

I do know that Trump's promised 10% tariff on foreign goods would be an absolute disaster for the consumer, inflation and our economy.

View embedded media

e

Yeah the rich getting richer. Biden is doing the same thing Odumbo was. Redistribution of the wealth and they won’t stop until the middle class is wiped out.

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Overall corporate profits in the US are the highest they have ever been. Specifically, the energy industry, which is particularly subject to the regulatory environment, is producing more energy (and the profits that go with that production) than any other country in history.

We have some meaningful issues with underemployment, and continued advances with AI are going to gut a number of traditional upper-middle class positions in the near future (that has nothing to do with either party, though). These are real issues, but I have no idea how DJT plans to solve for them.

Things aren't perfect, but I don't understand what data supports the idea that the current regulatory environment is some massive damper on the economy.

I do know that Trump's promised 10% tariff on foreign goods would be an absolute disaster for the consumer, inflation and our economy.

View embedded media

Trump’s tariffs and general negotiating chops with America in mind versus political equilibrium worked. Full stop.

 

[zingerdawg]

Dude did you see what China did to combat COVID and the unrest that it caused. Trump would be Prez right if he'd don't one simple thing...STFU. All he had to to was take advise from his "experts" let the speak and he would have gotten through COVID crisis but he didn't. He has to be in the spot light but he's a horrible communicator...like really really bad. Why was he trying to talk about highly technical things he has no experience in was his downfall. Stop making excuses for the man

Meanwhile if Biden were president then, we would get the notorious. “The Chinese ain’t bad folks, folks”. The president is being xenophobic by stopping traffic into and out of this country to China. Same with pelosi. That decision trump by itself probably saved 100-200 thousand lives imo.

Biden & COVID: Yes, He Called the Chinese Travel Restrictions Xenophobic | National Review

www.nationalreview.com

Holy shit. I just watched this speech. Oh. This guy isn’t going downhill. No. Not at all. He seems super sharp by comparison here and he was still compromised.

Biden's comments downplaying China threat to U.S. fire up pols on both sides

“China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man,” the former vice president said in Iowa, drawing the ire of lawmakers like Bernie Sanders and Mitt Romney.

www.nbcnews.com

unfurl="true"]https://fortune.com/2023/08/11/biden-rips-chinas-leadership-bad-folks-economy-ticking-time-bomb/[/URL]

More Biden flip floppery. lol. Good lord

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Yeah the rich getting richer. Biden is doing the same thing Odumbo was. Redistribution of the wealth and they won’t stop until the middle class is wiped out.

Big Tech loves the Dems.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

Dude did you see what China did to combat COVID and the unrest that it caused. Trump would be Prez right if he'd don't one simple thing...STFU. All he had to to was take advise from his "experts" let the speak and he would have gotten through COVID crisis but he didn't. He has to be in the spot light but he's a horrible communicator...like really really bad. Why was he trying to talk about highly technical things he has no experience in was his downfall. Stop making excuses for the man

I am not making excuses he was listening to that midget that claimed to be an expert on the virus and at the same time was in cahoots with China on the virus. Can’t think of the guy’s actual name but you know who I am talking about.

 

[celticdawg]

This virus I believe was intentionally spread from China to get Trump out of office. It was done with the blessings of the Democratic Party and they didn’t care how many people died because of it.

Welcome to the Chat. Home of conspiracy theories that just won't die.

 

[celticdawg]

Jesus don’t get me started. Trump supported counties? Maybe a little older and a little more obese? Try again. Bottom line we should have opened the economy and protected the vulnerable. The old and the obese. Instead we closed effing schools.

And how in any way does “Trump supporting counties” being less healthy support the idea that trumps Covid policy was wrong? Let’s see how everyone fared by age bracket and by weight in each State. Bottom line - the “murderers” in the South not only fared better, but they actually continued to live their lives and contribute to the economy.

Love people that want to rewrite history. Hindsight is fantastic isn't it. Did you forget that in early 2020 we didn't know what we were dealing with? People were dying and hospitals were being overrun (we're still paying for that because many medical personnel died and others left due to the stress), and that was a major concern. Sure there were over reactions, but there was no guidebook and no good past experience for guidance. And a lot of actions were politically based including Trump. I have said before that Trump would have been reelected without Covid, but that was because he had not faced a crisis before and he failed. Failed in part because he was more concerned with his reelection since he has always cared more about himself than the country.

Someone earlier mentioned Trump listening to the wrong person. Dr. Fauci was appointed to the chief Medical Advisor by none other than Trump. Of course, there is a long history of selecting the wrong people, but that still all falls on Trump.

 

[jlstone412]

Love people that want to rewrite history. Hindsight is fantastic isn't it. Did you forget that in early 2020 we didn't know what we were dealing with? People were dying and hospitals were being overrun (we're still paying for that because many medical personnel died and others left due to the stress), and that was a major concern. Sure there were over reactions, but there was no guidebook and no good past experience for guidance. And a lot of actions were politically based including Trump. I have said before that Trump would have been reelected without Covid, but that was because he had not faced a crisis before and he failed. Failed in part because he was more concerned with his reelection since he has always cared more about himself than the country.

Someone earlier mentioned Trump listening to the wrong person. Dr. Fauci was appointed to the chief Medical Advisor by none other than Trump. Of course, there is a long history of selecting the wrong people, but that still all falls on Trump.

And the fact we threw away our pandemic playbook under trump...alot of the response was self inflicted.

 

[jlstone412]

It is in the article about the poll. How the numbers are skewed some due to policy lines. But the tenor of the poll, and that answer a little, meant dissatisfaction or at least not totally satisfied. 45 percent said he had been terrible to the middle class. 16 percent said he has been great. There is a big difference between those numbers. You adding the 33 to the 16 to get to 50 is spin brother. Do you see what I am getting at. I understand your point. No need to explain it. I get what you are saying. 45 to 16 is a bad spread. No matter how you slice it. That is not satisfied at all vs completely satisfied.

I appreciate you being willing to want to learn more about the independent polling. That to me was a biggie.

My main point stone was just to provide some proof that sho was asking for. I didn’t have time when he first asked. I went back and posted two huge differences in opinion. Between an expert and the people. My argument. Then posted a testimonial from a woman saying the same things I have been claiming are happening here in my office every week. All I am getting at brother. You are a great new addition to the chat. You are reasonable and level headed. I appreciate that. Despite your political leanings. I can’t fix that.

It's ok...I can fix yours 😂

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

Love people that want to rewrite history. Hindsight is fantastic isn't it. Did you forget that in early 2020 we didn't know what we were dealing with? People were dying and hospitals were being overrun (we're still paying for that because many medical personnel died and others left due to the stress), and that was a major concern. Sure there were over reactions, but there was no guidebook and no good past experience for guidance. And a lot of actions were politically based including Trump. I have said before that Trump would have been reelected without Covid, but that was because he had not faced a crisis before and he failed. Failed in part because he was more concerned with his reelection since he has always cared more about himself than the country.

Someone earlier mentioned Trump listening to the wrong person. Dr. Fauci was appointed to the chief Medical Advisor by none other than Trump. Of course, there is a long history of selecting the wrong people, but that still all falls on Trump.

I will give you the early didn’t know what Covid really did argument. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about the absolute circus that continued well into 2020-2021. The virtue signaling. The suppression of anything that challenged Heir Fauci. The stats were clear by mid 2020. Who we needed to protect and who we could let live their lives. It was ridiculous. And the fact that when a vaccine was available we continued the bullshit was criminal. Literally firing people or threatening no insurance for folks who didn’t want the shot. For the record I got two. And then laughed my ass off at anyone who suggested I should continue to do it into late 2021-2022. The public quit listening. And for good reason. And the Dems won’t talk about it. They have rightly predicted we have short memories.

 

[oldmandawg]

If you don't like the numbers show they're false. If you can't then you need to face reality, the Trump tax cuts sucked for America.

Also, if you're pissed about paying more in taxes this year then, blame the Trump tax cuts because that was the last change in American tax policy.

And if you're pissed about billionaires benefiting in all the economic growth then again blame the Trump tax cuts.

Billionaires Are $2.2 Trillion Richer Since 2017 Trump-GOP Tax Law - Americans For Tax Fairness

Richest 748 Americans’ Wealth Up 77% Since Cuts Passed, Tops $5 Trillion; Debt Caused by Trump Tax Cuts Now Used By GOP As Excuse to Cut Services The collective fortune of America’s 748 billionaires topped $5 trillion in September 2023, a near record high, and up an astounding $2.2 trillion...

americansfortaxfairness.org

Tax cuts never suck for anyone.

 

[DawgWCK]

Love people that want to rewrite history. Hindsight is fantastic isn't it. Did you forget that in early 2020 we didn't know what we were dealing with? People were dying and hospitals were being overrun (we're still paying for that because many medical personnel died and others left due to the stress), and that was a major concern. Sure there were over reactions, but there was no guidebook and no good past experience for guidance. And a lot of actions were politically based including Trump. I have said before that Trump would have been reelected without Covid, but that was because he had not faced a crisis before and he failed. Failed in part because he was more concerned with his reelection since he has always cared more about himself than the country.

Someone earlier mentioned Trump listening to the wrong person. Dr. Fauci was appointed to the chief Medical Advisor by none other than Trump. Of course, there is a long history of selecting the wrong people, but that still all falls on Trump.

The Covid crisis certainly hurt Trump, but the change in voting laws / tactics or whatever you call it with mail in absentee voting totally flipped the election in 2020 and most likely will do the same in 2024. Biden’s support is soft at best, a high percentage of his voters are not going to drive and/or stand in a line to vote for him. Will they have someone request a ballot, help fill it out and mail it back - probably, but put out much more effort that that - probably not. Zuckerberg’s millions help get these ballots to the box. Biden’s votes in swing states that won him the election. Biden gets smoked in Georgia in 2024, partly because that voting methodology requires some level of input from the actual voter

 

[Dawgfan1966]

I am not saying he won’t do a good job. But he is the only one slojoe can beat imo.

I don’t think ski Joe can beat anyone with out cheating. That really tells us if he has a chance to win, that we do not deserve the freedom we are so close to giving away to big brother

 

[jlstone412]

The Covid crisis certainly hurt Trump, but the change in voting laws / tactics or whatever you call it with mail in absentee voting totally flipped the election in 2020 and most likely will do the same in 2024. Biden’s support is soft at best, a high percentage of his voters are not going to drive and/or stand in a line to vote for him. Will they have someone request a ballot, help fill it out and mail it back - probably, but put out much more effort that that - probably not. Zuckerberg’s millions help get these ballots to the box. Biden’s votes in swing states that won him the election. Biden gets smoked in Georgia in 2024, partly because that voting methodology requires some level of input from the actual voter

I am not saying that biden wins Georgia by any means here, but if it was just voting law changes that would've flipped the outcome of 2020, how did Warnock win in 2022 against a popular trump backed candidate after the laws were changed in a race that republicans NEEDED to win for senate majority? Genuinely curious how people reach that conclusion, because I am not seeing either winning Georgia by significant margins.

Maybe I'm wrong....

 

[oldmandawg]

I am going to try a different approach here. Will, I know what trump is. I know what I am voting for if I vote for him. But you want to act like trump is more evil than Biden. There was a witness who was pretty damn believable on the stand this past week saying Joe and hunter were selling out the country. Joe will side step this I am sure. Because he is a Democrat. The same way Trump had no legal issues till he became a pub and not a generous Dem donor. Trump was willing to come to the middle on abortion. He just proved that. Will Biden? Only if the string pullers and polling says so.

It is the policy that comes with Trump right now that we need. He has proven he will govern toward the middle. Will, you guys are so far left right now it is hilarious. Like supremacy far right. This is how far left you are with policy. Critical race theory is no different. It is being taught in schools. Being taught at uga matter of fact. Where kids are afraid to even state their opinion. He only governs for 25 percent of the country. The elitist left, and controls the rest of the Dem vote by fear. Fear of what Trump will do to them or their benefits. Proof. “They will put you back in chains”. “They will cut off you ss and Medicare benefits.” “They will tell you how to handle your own bodies”

Biden hasn’t offered one policy fix. Because he doesn’t think anything is broken. Just like other Dems in this thread. Which is the most dangerous opinion out there. Every poll about the economy goes against the numbers. Yet no Democrat wants to believe it.

Here is an example I will leave you with. This lady paid into a system her whole life that has failed her. Just to add a little insult to injury, illegal immigration and sanctuary cities kicked her in the ovaries. Said we don’t care that you have been a loyal tax paying American your whole life. Illegals come first and can kick you out of line if necessary. This is what you are supporting with a vote for Biden. It is evil to its very core. You used to be a middle ground person. You claim Trump won’t come to the middle. Where do you think Biden is governing will? Holy shit. Left of left of left of left. Come on man.

View embedded media

Don’t believe me stone or sho. Believe her then.

Trump is the moderate in the race. Joe was somewhat of a moderate in his Senate days, but today he doesn't know who what or where he is. Barry and company are running the show.

 

[zingerdawg]

Trump is the moderate in the race. Joe was somewhat of a moderate in his Senate days, but today he doesn't know who what or where he is. Barry and company are running the show.

So true. Same man called sanctuary cities dumps in the debates in 2008. Now he is wanting them on every corner of every state. Joe is not even remotely the same politician he was.

 

[DawgWCK]

I am not saying that biden wins Georgia by any means here, but if it was just voting law changes that would've flipped the outcome of 2020, how did Warnock win in 2022 against a popular trump backed candidate after the laws were changed in a race that republicans NEEDED to win for senate majority? Genuinely curious how people reach that conclusion, because I am not seeing either winning Georgia by significant margins.

Maybe I'm wrong....

Not an apples to apples comparison at all. Hershel was a great football player and one of my childhood hero’s but an AWFUL candidate who didn’t campaign hard , didn’t have his family behind him and had credible accusations . Many WF’s just simply wouldn’t vote for him. A portion of those WF Warnock voters will sit this one out or vote for Trump. Down ballot republicans won by 200,000 plus votes in 2022 in Georgia, folks like our crazy Lt Governor. a Republican pollster said it flipped race 75K votes in Georgia in 2020, I think that is close to accurate. Biden loses those plus another 100K from minority voters, Trump loses 50,000 or so because of his circus but wins fairly handily. As you said, I could be wrong but Dems are pulling their money out of Georgia and pouring it other states so they think it too