You wouldn’t believe me if I told you, or you’d just make fun of it. Just passing along from people that would know.
Ohio Norfolk Southern rail enviromental disaster ignored by the Biden Admin
- Thread starter maugwa
- Start date
You wouldn’t believe me if I told you, or you’d just make fun of it. Just passing along from people that would know.
I wish!
Not saying I’m a part of some secret spy organization. I’m in the nuclear field and have a friend or two that serve in various agencies. Actually, most all the info is available publicly but most just believe what they want to.
It doesn’t matter, before too long, Russia will control the whole country of Ukraine and whatever is left there.
In the end, if you don’t believe me, fine. I can live with that.
Did the lefties just blame trump for this accident? Lol. And then say tds is not a thing. It is all trump’s fault. Of course there will be an immediate article somewhere finding a way to blame him. Just running the playbook. When all else fails don’t blame the actual person in charge.
Let’s say the article is true. Biden said coming in, he would undo everything that trump did. Which has worked out great right. He has had two years. So either Biden isn’t paying attention to detail, or he thinks we shouldn’t be paying for it either. We need money to send elsewhere. I wonder where the money to pay for it may have gone instead. The buck stop with him. Next up, “breaking news, trump was actually driving the train”.
Let’s say the article is true. Biden said coming in, he would undo everything that trump did. Which has worked out great right. He has had two years. So either Biden isn’t paying attention to detail, or he thinks we shouldn’t be paying for it either. We need money to send elsewhere. I wonder where the money to pay for it may have gone instead. The buck stop with him. Next up, “breaking news, trump was actually driving the train”.
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Yes they did. Lol.
Sometimes I wish I could experience the delusion these people have fallen victim to for an hour or so. Just to feel what the world must feel like to the mentally ill perspective. As king as I could be snapped back out of it.
It is breathtaking. Will anyone ever from the left blame the leadership? Sorry, will the guys who claim not to be liberals, but independents,
Or guys that used to vote pub, ever blame anyone but trump. We should make a list of all the things the left or moderates too embarrassed to call themselves liberals have blamed him for.
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So, how do you feel about your prediction? This is a good thing, a bad thing, not our issue?
You may be proven correct, but there may also be more resolve than you are accounting for.
To be clear, I think Putin aspires to reassemble the Soviet Union and if we don’t stop him here that Ukraine will not be the last country invaded. History is littered with similar characters and just like the Sudetenland wasn’t enough for Hitler, Ukraine will not be enough for Putin.
I think my prediction will come true. I would bet my life savings in it. Doesn’t mean it will, it’s just a prediction. Russia invading is certainly not a good thing. But they have so much capacity and headroom, with their industrial base, Human Resources, energy resources (which means they will always have a market), mineral/metal/mining resources. Folks have discounted these commodities for years because of the tech age, but we are seeing during a wartime, they are critical. The total tonage of gold reserves they have is ridiculous, China too.
I hate Communism which means I hate Russian govt. but realistically, with their alliance with China, they are hard to stop. Our restrictions placed on russia were manipulated by them to put themselves in a stronger position.
That news piece is just an ad for Biden. I do not believe it for a second and it’s not worth considering IMO.
I agree with you that Putin wants more than Ukraine, way more. Just like when they took crimea. I hope they fail in Ukraine, but I just dont see it. They have basically geared up in war mode and maneuvered their domestic resources to produce so much to meet the demands. UK can’t, Germany can’t, CZ, although better, can’t challenge Russia. Russia has real soldiers, not hampered by the likes of recent western doctrine, placing a premium on equity, and all the woke stuff.
It’s interesting to study. Russia historically does not do well when their military is on the offensive. Think Afghanistan. They are much better at slogging it out and defending their own territory. Think Stalingrad. Anything could happen but unless we develop a new strategy, it doesn’t look good.
Our military and armament reserves are low because we have sent so much to UKR. The current admin doesn’t see a conflict with China for at least 2 years, thinking they have time to build up and prepare. But do we? Do we have time to “reawaken this industrial giant” and Reagan put it? Or would we rather play with our AI play pretties.
I would urge you to prepare for the worst.
Another point I just learned: ECP brakes are a non-isue in this case, as the FAST Act from '15 would have only required them on "high-hazard flammable" trains. This derailment was a mixed freight train & would not have fallen under the category that requires them.
In other words, the entire narrative about rescinding that rule is irrelevant.
In other words, the entire narrative about rescinding that rule is irrelevant.
LOL, this whole admin is like a tv show, walking around like he is building a skyscraper
In 2005, at a time under the Bush administration, there was a chemical train derailment not far from where I lived in Graniteville, SC. It was FAR WORSE than the Ohio derailment, as 10 people were killed, poisonous gas vented for two weeks, 5400 people were evacuated for two weeks, and a large nearby factory was destroyed.
There was no outrage for the President or the head of DOT to visit. None. No one even thought it was necessary. FEMA decided it was not worthy of a disaster declaration. From a political perspective it was a nothingburger.
So what was the difference today? The difference is today's poisoned grandstanding politics, where rivals will go after to other for whatever reason they can think up. This rift over the response to the derailment is nothing more than Biden Derangement Syndrome, which is strikingly similar to TDS.
en.wikipedia.org
There was no outrage for the President or the head of DOT to visit. None. No one even thought it was necessary. FEMA decided it was not worthy of a disaster declaration. From a political perspective it was a nothingburger.
So what was the difference today? The difference is today's poisoned grandstanding politics, where rivals will go after to other for whatever reason they can think up. This rift over the response to the derailment is nothing more than Biden Derangement Syndrome, which is strikingly similar to TDS.
Graniteville train crash - Wikipedia
Remember it wellIn 2005, at a time under the Bush administration, there was a chemical train derailment not far from where I lived in Graniteville, SC. It was FAR WORSE than the Ohio derailment, as 10 people were killed, poisonous gas vented for two weeks, 5400 people were evacuated for two weeks, and a large nearby factory was destroyed.
There was no outrage for the President or the head of DOT to visit. None. No one even thought it was necessary. FEMA decided it was not worthy of a disaster declaration. From a political perspective it was a nothingburger.
So what was the difference today? The difference is today's poisoned grandstanding politics, where rivals will go after to other for whatever reason they can think up. This rift over the response to the derailment is nothing more than Biden Derangement Syndrome, which is strikingly similar to TDS.
Graniteville train crash - Wikipedia
I think the key differences here are:
1. The "everything is safe/fine" declaration after the controlled detonation. Both the visual depictions of the explosion/aftermath & the dead fish, etc. have people asking legitimate questions. Especially w/ the changing/contradicting stories of "the water is safe to drink!". As @willdup referenced above from his experience during 9/11, the government has a long history of saying "it's fine!" when it's not.
Did something similar happen in Graniteville? Your link made no reference to it if it did.
2. The blame being placed on the previous administration, which (as I have explained) is both inaccurate & irrelevant. This isn't a defense of Trump or his administration: But, spreading misleading information by the current admin to avoid or distract is not helpful and a poor choice, at best.
Did something similar happen in Graniteville? Your link made no reference to it if it did.
My guess is that:
1. The amount of time it took for it to be addressed by POTUS or DOT (did Bush address it quickly? I couldn't find a story one way or another). I think since '01 & post-Obama & especially into Trump's term, the expectations of how & how often a President addresses anything publicly has grown.
2. The entire transportation system (planes, trains, shipping, etc.) has been a problem during & post-COVID. There was a very recent potential rail strike, airline issues, etc.. Buttigieg has been blamed or at least criticized for lack of action (rightfully or not) for much of that.
...is a big reason for current expectations. Specifically, Trump's desire to tweet about literally everything has set (right or wrong) expectations, for good or bad.
Of Note: I'm on record in this thread of saying that politicians commenting on things like this is generally worthless.
1. Social media in the past 18 years has clearly impacted how news is both consumed & followed. If Twitter was around in '05, who knows how the story would have been covered?
2. News Media is certainly different than it was 18 years ago.
I don't think that's new or unique. Politicians used to literally shoot each other 😅
This rift over the response to the derailment is nothing more than Biden Derangement Syndrome, which is strikingly similar to TDS.
Graniteville train crash - Wikipedia
I think regardless of the point you're making here, that the Biden administration handled it poorly. Right or wrong, the "when will they even address or acknowledge this disaster?" question became an issue that could have been easily avoided simply by addressing it earlier.
Debating with this willdup guy is a waste of time. Try the Ignore Button. I have enjoyed the results I got from it.
In 2005, at a time under the Bush administration, there was a chemical train derailment not far from where I lived in Graniteville, SC. It was FAR WORSE than the Ohio derailment, as 10 people were killed, poisonous gas vented for two weeks, 5400 people were evacuated for two weeks, and a large nearby factory was destroyed.
There was no outrage for the President or the head of DOT to visit. None. No one even thought it was necessary. FEMA decided it was not worthy of a disaster declaration. From a political perspective it was a nothingburger.
So what was the difference today? The difference is today's poisoned grandstanding politics, where rivals will go after to other for whatever reason they can think up. This rift over the response to the derailment is nothing more than Biden Derangement Syndrome, which is strikingly similar to TDS.
Graniteville train crash - Wikipedia
I was at Graniteville. There is no comparison. It’s was a Chlorine gas release. A very acute exposure hazard. You can find various videos of the derailment, release, response and people inside the factory dying on the internet.
By burning the VC and other chemicals at E Palistine, the very real possibility of dioxin production has entered the picture. If the groundwater becomes contaminated with it, forget it, everybody moves and the town/gets bulldozed and probably has the zip code terminated. It is one of the most potent chemical toxins known to man.
You can’t even compare The two yet because all of the contamination has yet to be discovered and measured.
This is much more of a chronic issue than Graniteville was.
There has been a cover up operation in effect since this train derailment took place. Arresting reporters and removing others for asking hard questions at press conferences. I want the details of a lot of things, including the testing from sampling results from true 3rd party companies.
Whatever works for you. There are things I agree and disagree with him about. But, I've never found him to be anything but cordial while discussing whatever subject is at-hand.
I will also point out that there are things you have discussed with him, where I conceptually agree with you....but, your delivery & choices in how you constructed your argument failed to adequately make the (valid) points you sought.
If you did a better job presenting your arguments, you'd be less frustrated in his responses, imo.
Thank you for your general, nonspecific criticism. However, it has been quite a while since I have discussed anything at all with him since he has been on my ignore list for months. You may be thinking about a discussion with one of the other degenerates.
I'll go to my writer's group meeting and then smoke a good cigar. When I return, I hope to hear from you.
I could be more specific...but, I'm not sure you'd appreciate it. Your use of the term 'degenerates' is the type of typical response that is both unhelpful & does a complete disservice to your arguments. Personally attacking a person making an argument vs. the argument they're making usually indicates you have no arguments of your own to make, based on the available facts.
But, that's my point...I think you do have good points to make, but sometimes choose the cheap/irrelevant path. It's a completely useless choice, if you're actually interested in debating a topic. When you do that, you're often validating those you're opposing.
In 2005, at a time under the Bush administration, there was a chemical train derailment not far from where I lived in Graniteville, SC. It was FAR WORSE than the Ohio derailment, as 10 people were killed, poisonous gas vented for two weeks, 5400 people were evacuated for two weeks, and a large nearby factory was destroyed.
There was no outrage for the President or the head of DOT to visit. None. No one even thought it was necessary. FEMA decided it was not worthy of a disaster declaration. From a political perspective it was a nothingburger.
So what was the difference today? The difference is today's poisoned grandstanding politics, where rivals will go after to other for whatever reason they can think up. This rift over the response to the derailment is nothing more than Biden Derangement Syndrome, which is strikingly similar to TDS.
Graniteville train crash - Wikipedia
So, to further enhance my answers to your questions:
1. There was an absolute failure by someone, that led to this derailment. My best/most educated guess was a train that was too long (not legally, but based on best-practices/recommendations). The reasons for that? Likely complicated, with nuance.
But, that will ultimately be determined by the NTSB. What is really pissing people off has been the response from the Federal Gov't, specifically what the actual level of threat is (even if it ultimately needs to be updated..."it's fine!" is clearly a lie), the clearly political-grandstanding to blame decisions from 4+ years ago (that this admin has had the opportunity to "fix" for 2+ years, if it was such an obvious problem) and what the actual threats are right now.
2. Instead of helpful information, it's been the often arrogant responses from the Administration when people are asking legitimate questions & irrelevant/misleading information that is clearly being floated, for political purposes (including by the Ohio Governor, as discussed previously in this thread)
To illustrate this, Jennifer Homendy, NTSB Chair; pleading for the misinformation to stop:
And the subsequent piss-poor response by Buttigieg, who is clearly more interested in scoring political points than addressing the issue at hand:
All that considered, I'm not sure the Graniteville accident is an applicable comparison, simply because so much has changed in the past 18 years.
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Mic drop moose. Holy smokes! All you need to know right here.
Thank you, sir. Independent of political party, I get really worked up/interested when government fails their constituents & engages in blame-shifting (F&#($ just fix the problem, man!) & when politics is clearly more important than actually helping citizens.
Blame it on my military experience, but I get really pissed off when leadership either fails or is completely non-existent. Leaders take responsibility & work to fix the problem. If they don't, people die/get hurt/suffer/are not served appropriately. This is an absolute truth in life. Leadership is service...and far-too many politicians forget this (and I'm absolutely directing the previous paragraph at ALL political persuasions).
/rant
His post was the nicest way of telling a stupid, crazy person that they are stupid and crazy that I’ve ever read.
I am a safety professional with 30 years of experience in hazmat response. You are correct vinyl chloride has more of a chronic impact, but chlorine also causes long term chronic damage to the lungs, as many people near granitevile experienced. Vinyl chloride breaks down into about 25 nasty organic compounds during combustion.
The response methods and monitoring of the air and water to such an incident are very standardized, thanks to thousands of such incidents over decades. You couldn’t cover up the monitoring results if you tried. The claims of the right wing media the air and water monitoring results are some big secret are laughable. Anyone with a few hundred bucks can rent the same equipment the EPA uses and collect samples for an independent lab.
I think another real difference I did not mention earlier is that today, is that after all the mixed confusing messages with covid and the impact it had on society, distrust of the government is at all all time high. It doesn’t take much to whip up the angry suspicious mob that hates Biden, so a big dark plume getting them hysterical is no surprise.
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There is no doubt the misinformation and the blame game is going both ways. Hopefully it won’t compromise the investigators.
...hold on a sec, man. So, you're now blaming citizens for doubting what their government tells them? Simply because they were literally just fed incomplete/misleading/later-contradicted-information? There is literal, confirmed situations where subject-matter-experts were silenced on social media at the behest of the Federal Government, simply for asking questions/following the "Scientific Method". Everyone should be scared of a government that actively silences dissenting opinions, regardless of political beliefs. Free & open debate is never wrong.
The Federal Government consistently contradicting itself, while holding itself as the 'ultimate authority' on a subject...and subsequent asking of questions that go "against the narrative" being equated to being a "SCIENCE©-denier" is not a productive way to create confidence.
That's not an "anti-Biden" issue...that's indicative of a government that has "lost" their moral high-ground, due to their own actions. That is textbook "victim-blaming".
There are absolutely groups of people that create drama/take advantage of any perceived/manufactured governmental missteps (please note my lack of ID'ing any specific parties or politicians).
There was literally a "big dark plume", that was accompanied w/ various & often contradicting statements of "Water is fine!!! DRINK UP!!!" statements, with clear, physical evidence of things not being "fine" (e.g. dead fish, "rainbows' in water created by simple stirring of sediment).
But, sure...let's make this about some ill-conceived/reactionary creation called "Biden Derangement Syndrome" & ignore actual facts & evidence. Your posts here seem (to me, at least) an effort at political excuse-making vs. actual debate, where government has failed and/or ignored/misrepresented what the actual issues are.
One correction moose. They were blaming trump. He was driving the train, and the sole operator, and installation manager of the brakes that malfunctioned. Now it could be wheel bearings. So the media will have to find a way to connect him there. It will be a cousin he has some dirt on. Otherwise another mic drop.
This is part of the issue that first sparked my initial posts. Due to a series of previously unrelated events, I had a passing knowledge of an unrelated portion the FAST Act.
The coverage made me revisit/study portions I was unfamiliar with. I got frustrated & am glad there is subsequent clarification/coverage/explanation to discuss some of the nuances.
Frankly, I'm just pissed at the lack of support/REAL information for innocent civilians ("blame" whomever you want right now...I literally don't give a F&$@). There will be people that die because they were not given accurate information. I 100% guarantee it. There will be subsequent lawsuits. "We" will then ask "....how did this happen?..." and any lesson will be forgotten and/or ignored.
Somebody will pay $, but lives will be utterly destroyed. Some of it is simply a tragedy & could not be avoided. It's the avoidable tragedies that are actively being ignored that I'm not happy with.
/rant.
You really want to measure dicks here? I’ve got more safety credential alphabet letters behind my name than most anyone in this country. Mostly in the radiation field but with enough experience in the chemical safety side. Dad was a chemist and my grandfather was an environmental chemist in the App Mtns and credited as being the last pioneer in pollution abatement.retired from one university, worked at others, hired by multiple govt agencies and blah blah blah. I could go in but who really GAS.
You misunderstood my statement concerning acute and chronic. While a PERSON may experience chronic illness due to exposure, a contaminated water supply/environment will create a chronic hazard in an environment that can cause harm to humans for years, decades and centuries to come if they are exposed and continue to make healthy people sick. You misunderstand the length of hazard as it applies to people and environment. You know this, you’re just playing slop.
Funniest thing you said is that sampling results can’t be covered up or manipulated. Volumes of books could be written on how to do this. You are naive if you think there is no way to manipulate results and if you think the right amount of money can’t make it happen. Tons of ways to do this and appear legit.
No science or education will change plain simple human instinct. A grade school student can come to the conclusion that something is wrong when the govt is not allowing certain questions of affiliated and arresting independent reporters for having done no illegal activities. In fact the only people that wouldn’t question these suspicious actions are those that have already been brainwashed by govt and MSM sources and refuse to deal with their own normalcy bias.
I'll have to defend ol wildup a little here.
We've sparred on here several times, but he has always been respectful and fair with me. I disagree with many of his perspectives, and I'm sure he disagrees with many of mine.
But he's never taken a personal shot at me.
He answers my questions directly
He provides evidence for his positions.
He's a good debate.
Now, Coco is another story. I put him on ignore when he tried to tell me John 3:16 didn't apply to America.
Yeah, it seems Bush took a lot of heat for Katrina, some of which was legit, some of which he offered assistance and was rebuffed by the Dem mayor of N.O. and some that was pure partisan politics. In this case when considering the massive supply chain issues, airport chaos and the handling of this derailment, I think it's safe to say the current transportation director has no clue what he is doing.
When I get to the point where I care what people who are stupid enough to vote for Joe Biden think, I will be as stupid as they.
Your Neville Chamberlain approach is invariably met with deception. They have no intention whatsoever to move to the truth. You seem to think they just don't see it and civil discussion will bring them around. But, most of them do see it and for various reasons have consciously chosen the other path.
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I have no doubt that you are correct about the right wing media using this tragedy to whip up the crowd. This is not even a left vs right issue.
But, the ineptitude of Joe Biden is so obvious and ever-present that he makes himself appear a buffoon even from a distance. His statements in response to queries about the derailment should be ONLY to introduce someone who knows wtf they are talking about. But instead, he misses no chance to prove himself incapable of coherence.
Then why do you bother talking to them?
Pointing out that insulting someone you disagree with can damage your argument is hardly appeasement.
You've completely missed the point.
Crew tried to stop Ohio train after alert about wheel bearing, safety report finds
The crew of the freight train carrying dangerous chemicals that derailed in Ohio earlier this month received a warning about an overheating wheel bearing and tried to slow the train before it came off the tracks, according to an interim report released on Thursday by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).The wheel bearing was heating up for several miles before reaching 253 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than the air temperature, investigators found, a dangerous level requiring a train to stop to prevent disaster.
The train engineer utilized the brakes and the automatic braking system also activated, the report said. But the train still derailed and was engulfed in a huge fireball, near the town of East Palestine, on 3 February.
Fifty of the train’s 149 cars derailed, with 11 of the derailed cars carrying huge quantities of toxic chemicals, prompting an evacuation order and a declaration of a state of emergency in the Ohio town, which has been gripped by fears of toxic water and air despite assurances from state and federal officials that the area is largely safe.
Some residents have since returned amid fears about immediate and longer-term health risks.
