Question for the liberals on this board regarding President Trump....

[ThreeDawgNight]

I read an article recently where a Washington Post reporter stated that Biden's greatest achievement was 'stopping Trump'.

I can understand not liking the man personally, but why would one want to stop:

1) having America become energy independent
2) keeping America out of winless wars
3) middle class income increased nearly $6,000...more than 5 times the gains from the entire previous administration
4) Jobless gains reached a 50 year low
5) unemployment rates for minorities reached record lows
6) unemployment rate for women hit its lowest rate in nearly 70 years
7) Lifted nearly 7 million people off of food stamps
8) poverty rates for African and Hispanic Americans reached record lows
9) the bottom 50% of American households saw a 40% increase in net worth
10) African American home ownership increased from 41.7% to 46.4%
11) Small business optimism broke a 35 year old record

I could go on and on, but what about this don't you like?!?

I can tell you what the democrats don't like. It's by lifting up the middle class that these politicians begin to lose power, and they consider Trump a threat to big government. Hell, that's why RINOs attack the man.

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[deadduckdawg]

I read an article recently where a Washington Post reporter stated that Biden's greatest achievement was 'stopping Trump'.

I can understand not liking the man personally, but why would one want to stop:

1) having America become energy independent
2) keeping America out of winless wars
3) middle class income increased nearly $6,000...more than 5 times the gains from the entire previous administration
4) Jobless gains reached a 50 year low
5) unemployment rates for minorities reached record lows
6) unemployment rate for women hit its lowest rate in nearly 70 years
7) Lifted nearly 7 million people off of food stamps
8) poverty rates for African and Hispanic Americans reached record lows
9) the bottom 50% of American households saw a 40% increase in net worth
10) African American home ownership increased from 41.7% to 46.4%
11) Small business optimism broke a 35 year old record

I could go on and on, but what about this don't you like?!?

I can tell you what the democrats don't like. It's by lifting up the middle class that these politicians begin to lose power, and they consider Trump a threat to big government. Hell, that's why RINOs attack the man.

I'll hang up and listen.

Clap clap clap

 

[zingerdawg]

I read an article recently where a Washington Post reporter stated that Biden's greatest achievement was 'stopping Trump'.

I can understand not liking the man personally, but why would one want to stop:

1) having America become energy independent
2) keeping America out of winless wars
3) middle class income increased nearly $6,000...more than 5 times the gains from the entire previous administration
4) Jobless gains reached a 50 year low
5) unemployment rates for minorities reached record lows
6) unemployment rate for women hit its lowest rate in nearly 70 years
7) Lifted nearly 7 million people off of food stamps
8) poverty rates for African and Hispanic Americans reached record lows
9) the bottom 50% of American households saw a 40% increase in net worth
10) African American home ownership increased from 41.7% to 46.4%
11) Small business optimism broke a 35 year old record

I could go on and on, but what about this don't you like?!?

I can tell you what the democrats don't like. It's by lifting up the middle class that these politicians begin to lose power, and they consider Trump a threat to big government. Hell, that's why RINOs attack the man.

I'll hang up and listen.

I have banged this drum for a while. I can answer it for you. Easily. Not any of it will be about policy. Especially economic policy. It will be his constant fighting with everyone while in office. Both sides. Which is why his enemies have circled the wagons and are throwing the kitchen sink at him now. He is polarizing beyond belief. Never seen any human own one political party more in their daily lives than trump. He hasn’t been in the news much for two weeks. All of the sudden folks are realizing the border is a disaster. The economy is edging towards a cliff. The president might not be all there. Like a magic trick.

He has my vote if he is the guy. I wish it would be someone else from the pub side. I think he has shown the way thru policy. Now just have some one with a more presidential daily outlook.

Examples will be from the left. He tried to steal an election. He is a criminal. He is a racist. (This one joe Biden leads by twenty miles, but don’t tell them that) he hates lgbtq. He loves the proud boy’s. He loves ye and Fuentes. His momma is fat. He is fat and orange. he has f’ed more people to get where he is than heidi fleiss. Etc

Edit: the middle class comments are so on point by the way. I appreciate that.

 

[Pecanman]

Probably not going to get many responses from the resident libs. They don’t like his tone & his words ( true statements), hurt their feelings! These type of folks, generally don’t have much backbone.

 

[Papapete11]

Probably not going to get many responses from the resident libs. They don’t like his tone & his words ( true statements), hurt their feelings! These type of folks, generally don’t have much backbone.

Don't count your chickens.....this is right up some of their alleys. Just give them time....they prolly plugging in the EV's and will be here shortly.

 

[arches34]

Not thrilled about either and not a liberal but here is an alternative take on the present administration:

*Did not cower to a dictator and rallied the world behind Ukaraine against Putin's aggression (not to mention withholding aid in exchange for getting dirt on yoru opponent)
*More people employed/job creation that at any time in history
*Delivered on a much needed, bi-partisan infrastrcture bill
*Delivered on a chips/semi-conductor bi-partisan bill becoming less reliant on China
*Lowered prescription drug costs for seniors
*Stable cabinet and staff opposed to the numerous resignations, firings, etc of the other administration. "I will only pick the smartest people"

 

[redojm12]

Not thrilled about either and not a liberal but here is an alternative take on the present administration:

*Did not cower to a dictator and rallied the world behind Ukaraine against Putin's aggression (not to mention withholding aid in exchange for getting dirt on yoru opponent)
*More people employed/job creation that at any time in history
*Delivered on a much needed, bi-partisan infrastrcture bill
*Delivered on a chips/semi-conductor bi-partisan bill becoming less reliant on China
*Lowered prescription drug costs for seniors
*Stable cabinet and staff opposed to the numerous resignations, firings, etc of the other administration. "I will only pick the smartest people"

What about the alternative to the Putin line? What if bioweapons were being created on the ukraine/russian border funded by Uncle joe and the americans?

If that is the case, Putin has every right to invade. Also, this perceived "dictator" notion about Putin is such a media narrative. The Russian people love him and his defense against globalism...

 

[Pecanman]

His cabinet is made up of extremely incompetent socialists. Mr. Trump never coward to a dictator, he simply had direct dialogue with them, which kept us out of needless wars. Our government is spending billions on Ukraine, when we need to be spending it on the invasion at our southern border. Also, the employment rate you celebrate isn’t helping most U.S. Citizens keep up with the tremendous inflation that is hitting ever sector of our economy! Mr. Biden’s war on fossil fuels is at the heart of many of the problems that we face as a society. Hell, the dumbass isn’t running the show anyway.

 

[deadduckdawg]

Not thrilled about either and not a liberal but here is an alternative take on the present administration:

*Did not cower to a dictator and rallied the world behind Ukaraine against Putin's aggression (not to mention withholding aid in exchange for getting dirt on yoru opponent)
*More people employed/job creation that at any time in history
*Delivered on a much needed, bi-partisan infrastrcture bill
*Delivered on a chips/semi-conductor bi-partisan bill becoming less reliant on China
*Lowered prescription drug costs for seniors
*Stable cabinet and staff opposed to the numerous resignations, firings, etc of the other administration. "I will only pick the smartest people"

You have overdosed on Don Lemon and Joy Behar and need a shot of Narcnn before you start spouting party slogans.

 

[zingerdawg]

His cabinet is made up of extremely incompetent socialists. Mr. Trump never coward to a dictator, he simply had direct dialogue with them, which kept us out of needless wars. Our government is spending billions on Ukraine, when we need to be spending it on the invasion at our southern border. Also, the employment rate you celebrate isn’t helping most U.S. Citizens keep up with the tremendous inflation that is hitting ever sector of our economy! Mr. Biden’s war on fossil fuels is at the heart of many of the problems that we face as a society. Hell, the dumbass isn’t running the show anyway.

All of this. And the job creation isn’t organic. It is paid for. Infrastructure. Meaning these jobs likely have a shelf life. Wages are woefully behind inflation. The workforce didn’t come back. Supply line issues still are everywhere. Every extra coin we get goes abroad to the ukraine or Iran. Lest we forget the 100 million in weapons given to the afghans. Oh. And this little tidbit. @arches34. Don’t forget to watch this gold star father give you his opinion. I dare any lib to listen as well. Nsfw

 

[ClydeDawg]

Not thrilled about either and not a liberal but here is an alternative take on the present administration:

*Did not cower to a dictator and rallied the world behind Ukaraine against Putin's aggression (not to mention withholding aid in exchange for getting dirt on yoru opponent)
*More people employed/job creation that at any time in history
*Delivered on a much needed, bi-partisan infrastrcture bill
*Delivered on a chips/semi-conductor bi-partisan bill becoming less reliant on China
*Lowered prescription drug costs for seniors
*Stable cabinet and staff opposed to the numerous resignations, firings, etc of the other administration. "I will only pick the smartest people"

Don't like either but trumps gains > joes gains.

 

[pawd]

I read an article recently where a Washington Post reporter stated that Biden's greatest achievement was 'stopping Trump'.

I can understand not liking the man personally, but why would one want to stop:

1) having America become energy independent
2) keeping America out of winless wars
3) middle class income increased nearly $6,000...more than 5 times the gains from the entire previous administration
4) Jobless gains reached a 50 year low
5) unemployment rates for minorities reached record lows
6) unemployment rate for women hit its lowest rate in nearly 70 years
7) Lifted nearly 7 million people off of food stamps
8) poverty rates for African and Hispanic Americans reached record lows
9) the bottom 50% of American households saw a 40% increase in net worth
10) African American home ownership increased from 41.7% to 46.4%
11) Small business optimism broke a 35 year old record

I could go on and on, but what about this don't you like?!?

I can tell you what the democrats don't like. It's by lifting up the middle class that these politicians begin to lose power, and they consider Trump a threat to big government. Hell, that's why RINOs attack the man.

I'll hang up and listen.

Most importantly, Trump is a 4 times indicted criminal defendant. Manipulating the value of his real estate holdings to both cheat on taxes owed and cheating lenders on under secured loans. Orchastrating an attempt to literally steal the 2020 Presidential election.
Stupidly refusing to return official White House/government classified documents, both "secret and top secret". Lost a very embarrassing "sexual assault" Civil action, resulting in humiliation and large money verdict.
He's stupid beyond belief; just ask any of his former top cabinet appointees their opinions of Trump's intellect and his competency In heading our government. Won't read, can't read and comprehend, essential briefings. Snuggles with the murderous Putin, loves up the dangerously disturbed Korean criminal.

That's just scratching the surface of Trump's unfitness to lead the nation. Haven't begun to list the various fines, judgments, settlements for various fraudulent capers.
Anyone who can read or listen knows he is nothing if not a two bit liar, grifter, dead beat and apparently proud of it.
And, most importantly... America KNOWS it.

 

[Athens is Heaven]

Most importantly, Trump is a 4 times indicted criminal defendant. Manipulating the value of his real estate holdings to both cheat on taxes owed and cheating lenders on under secured loans. Orchastrating an attempt to literally steal the 2020 Presidential election.
Stupidly refusing to return official White House/government classified documents, both "secret and top secret". Lost a very embarrassing "sexual assault" Civil action, resulting in humiliation and large money verdict.
He's stupid beyond belief; just ask any of his former top cabinet appointees their opinions of Trump's intellect and his competency In heading our government. Won't read, can't read and comprehend, essential briefings. Snuggles with the murderous Putin, loves up the dangerously disturbed Korean criminal.

That's just scratching the surface of Trump's unfitness to lead the nation. Haven't begun to list the various fines, judgments, settlements for various fraudulent capers.
Anyone who can read or listen knows he is nothing if not a two bit liar, grifter, dead beat and apparently proud of it.
And, most importantly... America KNOWS it.

Boy I see you are a true believer in the MSM and MSNBC.

 

[bubbab]

Not thrilled about either and not a liberal but here is an alternative take on the present administration:

*Did not cower to a dictator and rallied the world behind Ukaraine against Putin's aggression (not to mention withholding aid in exchange for getting dirt on yoru opponent)
*More people employed/job creation that at any time in history
*Delivered on a much needed, bi-partisan infrastrcture bill
*Delivered on a chips/semi-conductor bi-partisan bill becoming less reliant on China
*Lowered prescription drug costs for seniors
*Stable cabinet and staff opposed to the numerous resignations, firings, etc of the other administration. "I will only pick the smartest people"

I like these points, but mainly Donald Trump is a piece of shit. He lies more than any person I have ever heard about in my life. The truth means nothing to the man. He doesn't care about the country - only himself. He doesn't care about the Constitution - only himself. He doesn't respect the rule of law - only caring about himself. He doesn't stand behind his friends - only thinking of himself. He totally dropped the ball by failing to recognize the horrific dangers of Covid, downplaying the risks because he thought it hurt his re-election campaign. He had an affair with a porn star as his wife was with their new child - because he only cares about himself. He sucked up to Putin - who knows why? Probably because it benefits him personally. I know of zero redeeming attributes of Donald Trump. Did some things work out positive for the country during his 4 years? Sure, but very few because of any great actions he took.

 

[ThreeDawgNight]

Most importantly, Trump is a 4 times indicted criminal defendant. Manipulating the value of his real estate holdings to both cheat on taxes owed and cheating lenders on under secured loans. Orchastrating an attempt to literally steal the 2020 Presidential election.
Stupidly refusing to return official White House/government classified documents, both "secret and top secret". Lost a very embarrassing "sexual assault" Civil action, resulting in humiliation and large money verdict.
He's stupid beyond belief; just ask any of his former top cabinet appointees their opinions of Trump's intellect and his competency In heading our government. Won't read, can't read and comprehend, essential briefings. Snuggles with the murderous Putin, loves up the dangerously disturbed Korean criminal.

That's just scratching the surface of Trump's unfitness to lead the nation. Haven't begun to list the various fines, judgments, settlements for various fraudulent capers.
Anyone who can read or listen knows he is nothing if not a two bit liar, grifter, dead beat and apparently proud of it.
And, most importantly... America KNOWS it.

And you can prove he overvalued real estate and cheated lenders?
Hmmm...those are serious charges, and if PROVEN, he'd already be in jail.

Biden has cheated the American people his whole, professional life and is a pathetic excuse for a human being.

I think your feelings are hurt because you've mostly underachieved in life.

 

[helafono]

I rarely stumble into Chat. I prefer to keep politics out of my discussions with my Dawg friends. But as a left leaning progressive, I do want to offer a counter opinion here. A few things that concern me about another Trump presidency.

Poor management of the deficit: The national debt increased 39 percent during Trump’s presidency. It amazes me how this use to be a bedrock position from the GOP, but is now completely forgotten.

Deregulation and Environmental Rollbacks: Trump pursued an aggressive deregulation agenda, rolling back numerous environmental protections and safeguards. His decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change and his support for fossil fuel industries ran counter to the urgent need for action on climate change.

Economic Inequality and Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: While touting economic growth during his presidency, Trump's signature achievement in economic policy was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. While it provided temporary relief for many Americans, it overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and exacerbated income inequality. This policy further concentrated wealth at the top and failed to address the economic struggles of working-class Americans.

Surrounded himself with underqualified staff: Trump repeatedly hired the "greatest" individuals to serve on this staff and in his cabinet only to fire them and publicly degrade them the moment he felt they were not completely loyal to him (not the Presidency, not the Country, but him personally).

I'm not even touching on Trump as a person. I think he is narcissist and a liar. He abuses women. Claims to be Christain but when asked literally can't name a single book from Bible. He cares nothing about anyone other than himself.

I'm no huge fan of Biden, but I think he's done a decent job and continued our economic improvement. I also think that he, unlike Trump, is a sincere, devote man of principal.

 

[willdup]

And you can prove he overvalued real estate and cheated lenders?
Hmmm...those are serious charges, and if PROVEN, he'd already be in jail.

Biden has cheated the American people his whole, professional life and is a pathetic excuse for a human being.

I think your feelings are hurt because you've mostly underachieved in life.

It’s telling that so many Trump supporters on here are quick to transform a political discussion of the relative strength and weaknesses of the candidates and move right to personal insults. The law and order crowd doesn’t have much else to fall back on at this point when trying to defend the guy with 91 (and counting) felony counts to deal with.

 

[poorpreacher]

I'm a "Last Resort" supporter of Trump.

I was thinking about the difference in Trump America and Biden America. Day to day life was better with Trump, and its not even close.

Lower gas prices
Lower interest rates
Lower price of groceries
Less concern over border


And the list goes on.

 

[zingerdawg]

I rarely stumble into Chat. I prefer to keep politics out of my discussions with my Dawg friends. But as a left leaning progressive, I do want to offer a counter opinion here. A few things that concern me about another Trump presidency.

Poor management of the deficit: The national debt increased 39 percent during Trump’s presidency. It amazes me how this use to be a bedrock position from the GOP, but is now completely forgotten.

Deregulation and Environmental Rollbacks: Trump pursued an aggressive deregulation agenda, rolling back numerous environmental protections and safeguards. His decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change and his support for fossil fuel industries ran counter to the urgent need for action on climate change.

Economic Inequality and Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: While touting economic growth during his presidency, Trump's signature achievement in economic policy was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. While it provided temporary relief for many Americans, it overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and exacerbated income inequality. This policy further concentrated wealth at the top and failed to address the economic struggles of working-class Americans.

Surrounded himself with underqualified staff: Trump repeatedly hired the "greatest" individuals to serve on this staff and in his cabinet only to fire them and publicly degrade them the moment he felt they were not completely loyal to him (not the Presidency, not the Country, but him personally).

I'm not even touching on Trump as a person. I think he is narcissist and a liar. He abuses women. Claims to be Christain but when asked literally can't name a single book from Bible. He cares nothing about anyone other than himself.

I'm no huge fan of Biden, but I think he's done a decent job and continued our economic improvement. I also think that he, unlike Trump, is a sincere, devote man of principal.

Wiping out the middle class. While smiling and loving some ice cream. Deficit. Lol.

 

[Zonadog]

It’s telling that so many Trump supporters on here are quick to transform a political discussion of the relative strength and weaknesses of the candidates and move right to personal insults. The law and order crowd doesn’t have much else to fall back on at this point when trying to defend the guy with 91 (and counting) felony counts to deal with.

"91 felony counts" (by partisan democrats) is the new "60 cases" (ignoring the other 32)

 

[Athens is Heaven]

I like these points, but mainly Donald Trump is a piece of shit. He lies more than any person I have ever heard about in my life. The truth means nothing to the man. He doesn't care about the country - only himself. He doesn't care about the Constitution - only himself. He doesn't respect the rule of law - only caring about himself. He doesn't stand behind his friends - only thinking of himself. He totally dropped the ball by failing to recognize the horrific dangers of Covid, downplaying the risks because he thought it hurt his re-election campaign. He had an affair with a porn star as his wife was with their new child - because he only cares about himself. He sucked up to Putin - who knows why? Probably because it benefits him personally. I know of zero redeeming attributes of Donald Trump. Did some things work out positive for the country during his 4 years? Sure, but very few because of any great actions he took.

Boy did your pick for President f&@&$ up this country and it’s going to take a lot of years to get it right again.

 

[cherrydawg]

I rarely stumble into Chat. I prefer to keep politics out of my discussions with my Dawg friends. But as a left leaning progressive, I do want to offer a counter opinion here. A few things that concern me about another Trump presidency.

Poor management of the deficit: The national debt increased 39 percent during Trump’s presidency. It amazes me how this use to be a bedrock position from the GOP, but is now completely forgotten.

Deregulation and Environmental Rollbacks: Trump pursued an aggressive deregulation agenda, rolling backLnumerous environmental protections and safeguards. His decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change and his support for fossil fuel industries ran counter to the urgent need for action on climate change.

Economic Inequality and Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: While touting economic growth during his presidency, Trump's signature achievement in economic policy was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. While it provided temporary relief for many Americans, it overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and exacerbated income inequality. This policy further concentrated wealth at the top and failed to address the economic struggles of working-class Americans.

Surrounded himself with underqualified staff: Trump repeatedly hired the "greatest" individuals to serve on this staff and in his cabinet only to fire them and publicly degrade them the moment he felt they were not completely loyal to him (not the Presidency, not the Country, but him personally).

I'm not even touching on Trump as a person. I think he is narcissist and a liar. He abuses women. Claims to be Christain but when asked literally can't name a single book from Bible. He cares nothing about anyone other than himself.

I'm no huge fan of Biden, but I think he's done a decent job and continued our economic improvement. I also think that he, unlike Trump, is a sincere, devote man of principal.

Ever hear of the old tv show LOST IN SPACE?

 

[cherrydawg]

It’s telling that so many Trump supporters on here are quick to transform a political discussion of the relative strength and weaknesses of the candidates and move right to personal insults. The law and order crowd doesn’t have much else to fall back on at this point when trying to defend the guy with 91 (and counting) felony counts to deal with.

Even ABC news is starting to realize how political and out of line so much of this stuff on trump is... you don't need to read this because its counter to the lies and propaganda you prefer.

We’re seeing signs of a notable shift in how some U.S. mainstream media outlets operate. Surprisingly, some have started reporting certain news stories fairly and accurately. Recently, the Washington Post published an article urging Joe Biden not to run in 2024 and CNN spent an entire segment blathering on about what a liar Joe Biden is.






Now, most likely, CNN and the Washington Post have gotten their marching orders from higher-ups who’ve decided Joe needs to go. But there’s a lot more to this story.

What’s even more notable and can’t be so easily explained away is a recent ABC News story on Georgia prosecutor Fani Willis and President Trump. It’s quite something that ABC News didn’t mince words, describing Fani’s actions against Trump as a desperate move, like “throwing stuff against the wall.” This level of honesty is quite a departure from what we would have seen just a few months ago.

Here’s what Trending Politics co-founder Collin Rugg shared on X:

NEW: ABC News producer John Santucci is appalled at how “bad” Fani Willis’ case against Trump is, admits she is just “throwing things against the wall.”
You know it’s bad when even the main stream media is admitting it.
Santucci also mentioned how Trump scored a big win after the judge denied Willis’ motion to try all 19 co-defendants at once,
“Bad. I mean, Fani Willis wasn’t there… she’s throwing things against the wall based on this hearing.”
“A great win for Donald Trump and others that did not want to be part of this speedy trial case.”
“I can tell you, sitting here with you, just texting with some of the attorneys involved in the other defendants celebrating. Yay victory!”

Watch:




So, what’s behind this shift? It could be a mix of things. Perhaps they’re finally sensing the growing anger from the American people, who are turning away from state-run media propaganda. Maybe they’ve realized that their biased “news” approach isn’t working – it’s actually backfiring and making Trump more popular. Or, it could be that they’re worried about the possibility of President Trump’s re-election in 2024 and the potential for a four-year “revenge tour.” It might even be a combination of these and other elements. Regardless, it’s intriguing because our shameless media doesn’t undergo such transformations because of moral considerations, right? There’s always more to the story.

Whatever strange scheme might be unfolding behind the scenes, one thing is certain: the light is now shining bright on this intricate web of lies, and the American people are beginning to grasp the true, evil intentions of our deceitful media and government

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

So, what’s behind this shift?

What is behind the shift is the MSM and the statist they represent know full well they can bait the pubs into doing the dirty work and then flip the script once again. Biden gets impeached. The media then portrays Biden as the best friend the climate, women and minorities ever had and the Pubs trashed him. Then they white knight Gavin Newsome and voila, America becomes Cali.

 

[BlessedDawg]

I'm a "Last Resort" supporter of Trump.

I was thinking about the difference in Trump America and Biden America. Day to day life was better with Trump, and its not even close.

Lower gas prices
Lower interest rates
Lower price of groceries
Less concern over border


And the list goes on.

Me too, I'll vote for someone else in the primary but if he is the nominee, he's got my vote. It's just really a shame that in our great country, Trump and Biden are the best we can do.

 

[willdup]

"91 felony counts" (by partisan democrats) is the new "60 cases" (ignoring the other 32)

If there were even a single case where Trump and team proved election fraud in court, we would have never heard the end of it. But there wasn’t, so pointing to the 32 cases you reference as if they in any way validate the ridiculous accusations of widespread and election-altering fraud is beyond disingenuous. It’s been three years and Trump had $250m of his supporter’s money at his disposal to prove fraud and they still haven’t proven a single case of fraud, in court or otherwise.

It’s disappointing that blind loyalty to one person who is so obviously flawed has resulted in half the country completely dismissing the work of four different grand juries in four different states as nothing more than partisan politics. If or when Trump is convicted of any of these charges it won’t matter how damning the evidence was. The party will go down with Trump because the party has no new ideas or vision and thus there is no alternative.

 

[zingerdawg]

If there was even a single case where Trump and team proved election fraud in court, we would have never heard the end of it. But there wasn’t, so pointing to the 32 cases you reference as if they in any way validate the ridiculous accusations of widespread and election-altering fraud is beyond disingenuous. It’s been three years and Trump had $250m of his supporter’s money at his disposal to prove fraud and they still haven’t proven a single case of fraud, in court or otherwise.

It’s disappointing that blind loyalty to one person who is so obviously flawed has resulted in half the country completely dismissing the work of four different grand juries in four different states as nothing more than partisan politics. If or when Trump is convicted of any of these charges it won’t matter how damning the evidence was. The party will go down with Trump because the party has no new ideas or vision and thus there is no alternative.

You feel like we are heading in a good direction currently? Trump aside. Do you feel like the folks in office have Americans actually first in line to take care of. You know the answer to that. If this is the new ideas you speak of, well they suck. And your party’s new ideas have always sucked. Which has been proven all over the country in dem run cities. Also, proven to suck at the national level as well. If we continue with these liberal ideas, there will be nothing left to fight about sooner than later. Keep you head buried. The same way you believe Biden is still not a criminal and also operating bette than 50 percent capacity. You will believe anything if you believe that.

 

[Pecanman]

bubbab, takes one to no one!

 

[ugaboz]

libs are more worried about bathrooms and flags

 

[Athens is Heaven]

I rarely stumble into Chat. I prefer to keep politics out of my discussions with my Dawg friends. But as a left leaning progressive, I do want to offer a counter opinion here. A few things that concern me about another Trump presidency.

Poor management of the deficit: The national debt increased 39 percent during Trump’s presidency. It amazes me how this use to be a bedrock position from the GOP, but is now completely forgotten.

Deregulation and Environmental Rollbacks: Trump pursued an aggressive deregulation agenda, rolling back numerous environmental protections and safeguards. His decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change and his support for fossil fuel industries ran counter to the urgent need for action on climate change.

Economic Inequality and Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: While touting economic growth during his presidency, Trump's signature achievement in economic policy was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. While it provided temporary relief for many Americans, it overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and exacerbated income inequality. This policy further concentrated wealth at the top and failed to address the economic struggles of working-class Americans.

Surrounded himself with underqualified staff: Trump repeatedly hired the "greatest" individuals to serve on this staff and in his cabinet only to fire them and publicly degrade them the moment he felt they were not completely loyal to him (not the Presidency, not the Country, but him personally).

I'm not even touching on Trump as a person. I think he is narcissist and a liar. He abuses women. Claims to be Christain but when asked literally can't name a single book from Bible. He cares nothing about anyone other than himself.

I'm no huge fan of Biden, but I think he's done a decent job and continued our economic improvement. I also think that he, unlike Trump, is a sincere, devote man of principal.

I stopped reading at left leaning progressive!

 

[Zonadog]

If there were even a single case where Trump and team proved election fraud in court, we would have never heard the end of it. But there wasn’t, so pointing to the 32 cases you reference as if they in any way validate the ridiculous accusations of widespread and election-altering fraud is beyond disingenuous. It’s been three years and Trump had $250m of his supporter’s money at his disposal to prove fraud and they still haven’t proven a single case of fraud, in court or otherwise.

It’s disappointing that blind loyalty to one person who is so obviously flawed has resulted in half the country completely dismissing the work of four different grand juries in four different states as nothing more than partisan politics. If or when Trump is convicted of any of these charges it won’t matter how damning the evidence was. The party will go down with Trump because the party has no new ideas or vision and thus there is no alternative.

You should see an election up close. It will make you question everything you know. I say this from first hand experience.

Since you brought it up, I have a discussion question that' I've been carrying around for a little while now. Hoping you can shed some light on this for me. I'm hoping this will be more productive than rolling out the compilation videos of Democrats denying elections and the feature length HBO documentary of left wing issues with US elections, Georgia's in particular.

In your view, what would constitute evidence of "election-altering fraud" that one could take to court in the aftermath of a national election and prevail? What would constitute compelling evidence?

 

[willdup]

You should see an election up close. It will make you question everything you know. I say this from first hand experience.

Since you brought it up, I have a discussion question that' I've been carrying around for a little while now. Hoping you can shed some light on this for me. I'm hoping this will be more productive than rolling out the compilation videos of Democrats denying elections and the feature length HBO documentary of left wing issues with US elections, Georgia's in particular.

In your view, what would constitute evidence of "election-altering fraud" that one could take to court in the aftermath of a national election and prevail? What would constitute compelling evidence?

I’m not doubting your comments about issues with the election process, but there are Republican SOSs and state legislatures who are fully empowered to address those issues, correct? Why haven’t they been addressed and why is the assumption always that only Dems would benefit for any vulnerabilities?

Regarding your question, I am not an lawyer or a trained expert on the mechanics of elections. I do generally have faith in our court system to adjudicate disputes of this nature in a fair manner. I also know that Trump was given a huge war-chest by his followers to pursue claims of election fraud and that Trump is deeply, personally and now legally invested in being vindicated on his claims of fraud. I also know that tens of thousands of votes across at least four states would have had to be fraudulent to change the results.

And we’ve seen absolutely nothing in even a single state that proves fraud. Also, most of the specific early claims, many of which were absurd on their face, have been entirely debunked. So you tell me what we are to make of that.

 

[Dawgfan1966]

Not thrilled about either and not a liberal but here is an alternative take on the present administration:

*Did not cower to a dictator and rallied the world behind Ukaraine against Putin's aggression (not to mention withholding aid in exchange for getting dirt on yoru opponent)
*More people employed/job creation that at any time in history
*Delivered on a much needed, bi-partisan infrastrcture bill
*Delivered on a chips/semi-conductor bi-partisan bill becoming less reliant on China
*Lowered prescription drug costs for seniors
*Stable cabinet and staff opposed to the numerous resignations, firings, etc of the other administration. "I will only pick the smartest people"

Do you know how to change a tire by yourself? Just curious.

 

[LRA Dawg]

Not really looking into jumping into this debate, but I get so annoyed with Republicans who throw out the term "energy independent". Energy is a global commodity, so the entire term is a foolish but manipulative play on words.

 

[deadduckdawg]

Not really looking into jumping into this debate, but I get so annoyed with Republicans who throw out the term "energy independent". Energy is a global commodity, so the entire term is a foolish but manipulative play on words.

If we do not depend on any of the global community other than ourselves for our energy needs we are energy independent.

 

[d-dawg]

That is about as straight forward as you can get imo.

 

[Zonadog]

I’m not doubting your comments about issues with the election process, but there are Republican SOSs and state legislatures who are fully empowered to address those issues, correct? Why haven’t they been addressed and why is the assumption always that only Dems would benefit for any vulnerabilities?

Regarding your question, I am not an lawyer or a trained expert on the mechanics of elections. I do generally have faith in our court system to adjudicate disputes of this nature in a fair manner. I also know that Trump was given a huge war-chest by his followers to pursue claims of election fraud and that Trump is deeply, personally and now legally invested in being vindicated on his claims of fraud. I also know that tens of thousands of votes across at least four states would have had to be fraudulent to change the results.

And we’ve seen absolutely nothing in even a single state that proves fraud. Also, most of the specific early claims, many of which were absurd on their face, have been entirely debunked. So you tell me what we are to make of that.

I have never said that "only Dems would benefit for any vulnerabilities." In fact, I have pointed out numerous times that some of the biggest offenders out there are Republican officials in Arizona (particularly in Maricopa County) and Georgia (primarily around the SoS office). My ongoing position is this is not a partisan issue, but an "Us" vs. "Them" issue, where the people that control the process are not motivated to act in the best interests of citizens at large.

I have pointed out that the loudest voices defending Maricopa County are officials who won their elections by the slimmest of margins. One, County Clerk Stephen Richer, who shows open contempt for voters, ran on the basis of a 200+ page critique of Maricopa County elections. He has done nothing in the past 3 years to improve any of it. Even though the 2020 election was administered by the target of his criticisms, he has staunchly defended and even lied to defend the very issues on which he ran.

I have pointed out that Stacy Abrams had a legitimate gripe about the 2018 Gubernatorial election. That whole statewide ballot counting and tallying system was ordered removed by state court after a 9 year legal battle. But the Republican Governor and SoS conspired to make sure that the new system was no better. They argued that Dominion would offer new transparency in election results, but here we sit three years after the first election with deleted election records, missing hardware, 150K sequestered ballots and thousands of missing documents.

I know that you might feel I was setting a trap by asking what would be required to prove fraud, but I really wanted to see what you and some others thought that would look like. Then we could talk about how one might obtain that evidence. It was more an effort at addressing some things you mentioned in this last post.

Those things include:
"And we’ve seen absolutely nothing in even a single state that proves fraud."
"I do generally have faith in our court system to adjudicate disputes of this nature in a fair manner."

I think there's a disconnect between what has transpired and what conclusions might be drawn from it. To that end, I'd still like to know what sort of evidence would say to you (or anyone else interested) that there is a problem with the results.

 

[LRA Dawg]

If we do not depend on any of the global community other than ourselves for our energy needs we are energy independent.

The USA has made more energy than it has consumed since 2019. Even if we made double than we consumed, the market would still be heavily influenced by the effect of other large producers on the market. It is just one factor of many on the overall price of gas.

If you want to complain about the Democrats and boast being a Republican, then get behind the idea of building more refineries in the USA. They can't build new ones due to regulations and that screws the consumer.

 

[Zonadog]

The USA has made more energy than it has consumed since 2019. Even if we made double than we consumed, the market would still be heavily influenced by the effect of other large producers on the market. It is just one factor of many on the overall price of gas.

If you want to complain about the Democrats and boast being a Republican, then get behind the idea of building more refineries in the USA. They can't build new ones due to regulations and that screws the consumer.

The industry has also been discouraged from making repairs and improvements to existing refineries via increasing regulation, permitting delays and the repeated promises by the government to shut the industry down.

 

[willdup]

I have never said that "only Dems would benefit for any vulnerabilities." In fact, I have pointed out numerous times that some of the biggest offenders out there are Republican officials in Arizona (particularly in Maricopa County) and Georgia (primarily around the SoS office). My ongoing position is this is not a partisan issue, but an "Us" vs. "Them" issue, where the people that control the process are not motivated to act in the best interests of citizens at large.

I have pointed out that the loudest voices defending Maricopa County are officials who won their elections by the slimmest of margins. One, County Clerk Stephen Richer, who shows open contempt for voters, ran on the basis of a 200+ page critique of Maricopa County elections. He has done nothing in the past 3 years to improve any of it. Even though the 2020 election was administered by the target of his criticisms, he has staunchly defended and even lied to defend the very issues on which he ran.

I have pointed out that Stacy Abrams had a legitimate gripe about the 2018 Gubernatorial election. That whole statewide ballot counting and tallying system was ordered removed by state court after a 9 year legal battle. But the Republican Governor and SoS conspired to make sure that the new system was no better. They argued that Dominion would offer new transparency in election results, but here we sit three years after the first election with deleted election records, missing hardware, 150K sequestered ballots and thousands of missing documents.

I know that you might feel I was setting a trap by asking what would be required to prove fraud, but I really wanted to see what you and some others thought that would look like. Then we could talk about how one might obtain that evidence. It was more an effort at addressing some things you mentioned in this last post.

Those things include:
"And we’ve seen absolutely nothing in even a single state that proves fraud."
"I do generally have faith in our court system to adjudicate disputes of this nature in a fair manner."

I think there's a disconnect between what has transpired and what conclusions might be drawn from it. To that end, I'd still like to know what sort of evidence would say to you (or anyone else interested) that there is a problem with the results.

That’s all very reasonable and even-handed. What confuses me is it seems to be quite a contrast from your post that started this exchange.

"91 felony counts" (by partisan democrats) is the new "60 cases" (ignoring the other 32)

Perhaps I’m misinterpreting, but that post suggests man things, an open minded and nonpartisan search for the truth not being one of them.

If the Dems successfully conducted a multi-state scheme that involved coordinating many tens of thousand of fraudulent votes, it would leave a trail and be provable in court. They likely would have also performed better in more of the state races.

And I don’t know what to tell you if you are willing to ascribe Trump’s legal issues to partisan prosecutors and not his own conduct. Just this weekend he offered up incriminating statements on national TV yet again on the documents case and his longtime assistant has flipped and testifying to textbook obstruction across multiple instances. Suggesting that’s attributable to partisan partisan politics seems a very partisan position, but I guess that’s why they have the

The question back to you is, do you think it is appropriate for Trump to state that he is absolutely certain that the elections was stolen from him, and do you think it was appropriate to use that as justification for much of what Trump is currently being charged with in state and federal court?