Question for the liberals on this board regarding President Trump....

[Zonadog]

That’s all very reasonable and even-handed. What confuses me is it seems to be quite a contrast from your post that started this exchange.

In my original post, I was trying to keep my own opinions to myself, to avoid coloring any potential response. In my second try, I showed more of what I was getting at, realizing that you have to defend yourself a lot on this board and that what I was asking might be perceived as a lure, when I'm really shooting at a discussion of expectations, requirements and legal thresholds. I think many perceive these cases to be easier to prove than they are. And it should be easier to investigate election results.

 

[willdup]

In my original post, I was trying to keep my own opinions to myself, to avoid coloring any potential response. In my second try, I showed more of what I was getting at, realizing that you have to defend yourself a lot on this board and that what I was asking might be perceived as a lure, when I'm really shooting at a discussion of expectations, requirements and legal thresholds. I think many perceive these cases to be easier to prove than they are. And it should be easier to investigate election results.

In the Republican ballot fraud case in NC, it was not hard to surface evidence once they started looking. There were too many people involved, and that was to facilitate a relatively infinitesimal number of fraudulent votes compared to what would be needed to alter a national election in multiple states.

My question stands. Do you think Trump had the elections stolen in 2020 and do you think Trump is likely innocent of what’s charged in the 91 felony counts? Were the four grand juries involved simply tools of the Dem prosecutors you referenced in your original post?

 

[Uga_1DawG]

What role do Freemasons, a veil for satanic worship, play in our government? Lawyers, judges, governors, SOS's, congressmen, media control, hollywood, etc.
Again, it's one big club that, thankfully, I and I would assume many of you, are not members......
If you think this is crazy or I am wrong, do some digging. I don't have any masters nor do I bow to anyone besides my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

Why would you need to bow to a master and profess a loyalty of secrecy to an organization and veil all that behind the "so called" good works that you claim. Men of evil prefer darkness lest their deeds come to light.

How could our SOS and Governor allow the changes to be made in our election process without our state legislator passing it?
Any of you that truly think that Trump did not win the 2020 election in a landslide are delusional.

He did say he intends to drain the swamp. Maybe that's why they ALL put a target on his back. He is not a member of the secret societies. Freemasons, bohemian grove, members of federal gov't., bar associations, etc.

Oh, are we still a corporation or have we returned back to a Republic.

 

[Zonadog]

In the Republican ballot fraud case in NC, it was not hard to surface evidence once they started looking. There were too many people involved, and that was to facilitate a relatively infinitesimal number of fraudulent votes compared to what would be needed to alter a national election in multiple states.

My question stands. Do you think Trump had the elections stolen in 2020 and do you think Trump is likely innocent of what’s charged in the 91 felony counts? Were the four grand juries involved simply tools of the Dem prosecutors you referenced in your original post?

With the NC case you mention, that's the government going after citizens who broke the law. They will prosecute just enough of these to look like there is some oversight of the process, but it doesn't involve any of the corrupt practices, undue influence or lack of proper controls in the election process itself.

Governments will investigate and prosecute individual citizens, but will not take a critical eye to their own practices. They will not allow anyone else to do so, either, as proven in "over 60 cases" that the courts declined to entertain for a variety of inconclusive reasons. More about that in a minute.

I don't and don't intend to start predicting the future. I suck at that. I don't think that a rational person could ignore the political influence in "91 felony counts" that all come out in the same time frame. Is it just a coincidence that Fani Willis requested one court date for 20 people, within days of the largest number of state primaries possible? I seriously doubt it. Is it an accident that all of these are in supermajority Democrat locations where the jury pool is obviously slanted? Come on. Was it an accident that two of the prosecutors involved are making good on campaign promises, not to find the truth, but to "get Trump?" I do find all of that disturbing and giving the appearance of impropriety, at the very least.

Here's the acid test for the logic of these prosecutions in the context of this discussion: How many of the prosecutors involved spent any part of the past 3 years investigating the election process and results in their own jurisdictions? Aren't we supposed to find the crime, then track down the criminals? Why did they ignore the biggest leads at the fundamental root of their cases?

The standard view of grand juries is that you can indict a ham sandwich. You know why. I'll spare you the videos of the Fulton County Grand Jury chairman and her obvious, self proclaimed bias and just stipulate that yeah, that happened. Representative of the process. That hasn't changed, and adds no credibility.

You still have not answered my original question. What, in your mind, would be sufficient to go to court initially with an election fraud case against the state or local jurisdiction?

 

[cherrydawg]

If you can't see a whacked justice system you are willfully blind, ignorant or both.. Perhaps bias may play a roll in not seeing the issues. Dims don't want to believe there is a problem because the system at this point in time is bent on getting their enemy one, and punishing anyone that stands up for him. It also is helping cover for their pedophile in the whitehouse, so why would you admit their is a problem. You wont. Not because its not true, just that it suits you just fine. You don't care about the implications for all of us, just that it is after trump and for brandon/hunter

 

[willdup]

With the NC case you mention, that's the government going after citizens who broke the law. They will prosecute just enough of these to look like there is some oversight of the process, but it doesn't involve any of the corrupt practices, undue influence or lack of proper controls in the election process itself.

Governments will investigate and prosecute individual citizens, but will not take a critical eye to their own practices. They will not allow anyone else to do so, either, as proven in "over 60 cases" that the courts declined to entertain for a variety of inconclusive reasons. More about that in a minute.

I don't and don't intend to start predicting the future. I suck at that. I don't think that a rational person could ignore the political influence in "91 felony counts" that all come out in the same time frame. Is it just a coincidence that Fani Willis requested one court date for 20 people, within days of the largest number of state primaries possible? I seriously doubt it. Is it an accident that all of these are in supermajority Democrat locations where the jury pool is obviously slanted? Come on. Was it an accident that two of the prosecutors involved are making good on campaign promises, not to find the truth, but to "get Trump?" I do find all of that disturbing and giving the appearance of impropriety, at the very least.

Here's the acid test for the logic of these prosecutions in the context of this discussion: How many of the prosecutors involved spent any part of the past 3 years investigating the election process and results in their own jurisdictions? Aren't we supposed to find the crime, then track down the criminals? Why did they ignore the biggest leads at the fundamental root of their cases?

The standard view of grand juries is that you can indict a ham sandwich. You know why. I'll spare you the videos of the Fulton County Grand Jury chairman and her obvious, self proclaimed bias and just stipulate that yeah, that happened. Representative of the process. That hasn't changed, and adds no credibility.

You still have not answered my original question. What, in your mind, would be sufficient to go to court initially with an election fraud case against the state or local jurisdiction?

I actually did answer your question as best as possible. The NC case is an example where multiple people were involved, and once the voting anomalies were detected it wasn’t that difficult to track down those involved and get the minions to flip (same as it works in so many cases). Corroborate fraud via testimony from multiple credible participants who are supported by the facts and you have a case.

Election fraud isn’t some magical kind of fraud that is immune from the same methods of detection as any other fraud.

I have to say, that ham sandwich trope drives me bonkers. Well over 90% of those federally indicted are convicted and for those who go to trial the conviction rate is over 99%. The Fulton County conviction rate is over 90%. I guess all those indicted ham sandwiches make for poor defendants.

My questions stands. Was the 2020 election stolen or not?

 

[Dawgfan1966]

Not really looking into jumping into this debate, but I get so annoyed with Republicans who throw out the term "energy independent". Energy is a global commodity, so the entire term is a foolish but manipulative play on words.

If that is the case , why do we even have oil companies in the US? We should just rely on our enemies to provide for us. Oh wait, that’s what we are doing currently! Never mind!

 

[Zonadog]

I actually did answer your question as best as possible. The NC case is an example where multiple people were involved, and once the voting anomalies were detected it wasn’t that difficult to track down those involved and get the minions to flip (same as it works in so many cases). Corroborate fraud via testimony from multiple credible participants who are supported by the facts and you have a case.

Election fraud isn’t some magical kind of fraud that is immune from the same methods of detection as any other fraud.

I have to say, that ham sandwich trope drives me bonkers. Well over 90% of those federally indicted are convicted and for those who go to trial the conviction rate is over 99%. The Fulton County conviction rate is over 90%. I guess all those indicted ham sandwiches make for poor defendants.

My questions stands. Was the 2020 election stolen or not?

Here's why the NC case is irrelevant to my question: Again, as stated in my last post to you, the NC case is the government going after citizens for voter fraud. Local election officials gladly turn over the information to prosecute citizens, especially where it fits a political agenda.

My question is about all the cases alleging impropriety by GOVERNMENT officials and their peers (County Clerk office, Secretary of State office, Election Directors, etc.). What would one need to have, in your view, to successfully prove malfeasance by those running the election?

Election fraud is not magical, but it is a unique area where election officials work without third party verification and have control over all the information used in the election process. Jeffrey Dahmer certainly wasn't allowed to tell police they couldn't look in the refrigerator to check out the really bad smell. But local election officials have been allowed to destroy election records, fail to produce documentation of large numbers of votes, and to hide ballots, computer records, surveillance video from scrutiny. That's rather suspicious.

You may not like it, but its true that getting an indictment isn't that hard. There is no defense, just the prosecutor's spin on the case information. All that means is that indictments are not conclusive.

Most government prosecutors have high success rates because they tend to take the cases they can prove decisively. And then they tend to bargain down a maddening degree to guarantee a win. So when you see a prosecutor push forward a marginal case that requires unique and creative interpretations of the law just to get an indictment, you have to wonder what the motivation is to go forward with it.

Your last question: "Was the 2020 election stolen or not?"

The simplest true answer I can give you is that I don't know and you don't either. People outside the system who think they know the answer are wrong. Nobody, at any level, has seen all the relevant data one way or the other. Our elections are too much of a black box. There's no reason for it other than to hide incompetency, inconsistency and shenanigans.

 

[willdup]

The simplest true answer I can give you is that I don't know and you don't either. People outside the system who think they know the answer are wrong. Nobody, at any level, has seen all the relevant data one way or the other. Our elections are too much of a black box. There's no reason for it other than to hide incompetency, inconsistency and shenanigans.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. The reason I keep bringing up the case in NC is because the key vulnerability for any large scale election fraud is the human element. Absent some digital hacking effort, which I think the states have the safeguards in place to detect after the fact if not stop from happening at all (as was the case with the Russian vote machine hacking effort in 2016), any large scale fraud would be a significantly manual effort requiring a large number of perpetrators. The more perpetrators the easier it is to find. That’s an absolute truth.

It’s just not reasonable to believe that this vast, multi-state scheme involving mastermind plotters and many, many foot soldiers executing the mechanics of the process have successfully avoided all detection.

But if, for the sake of argument, I concede that it’s really unknowable, which also means there in no proof, than that means DJT has been cynically tearing the country apart, including being directly responsible for J6, based on the lie that he has absolute proof that the Dems stole the election.

The reality is that Trump is one of the most polarizing political figures in the history of our country, he was saddled with an entirely unique national crises in the form of Covid, and the American people decided it was time to try something else. That is exponentially more likely than the vast left wing conspiracy, flawlessly executed in multiple states, that would have been required to successfully steal the election.

 

[zingerdawg]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. The reason I keep bringing up the case in NC is because the key vulnerability for any large scale election fraud is the human element. Absent some digital hacking effort, which I think the states have the safeguards in place to detect after the fact if not stop from happening at all (as was the case with the Russian vote machine hacking effort in 2016), any large scale fraud would be a significantly manual effort requiring a large number of perpetrators. The more perpetrators the easier it is to find. That’s an absolute truth.

It’s just not reasonable to believe that this vast, multi-state scheme involving mastermind plotters and many, many foot soldiers executing the mechanics of the process have successfully avoided all detection.

But if, for the sake of argument, I concede that it’s really unknowable, which also means there in no proof, than that means DJT has been cynically tearing the country apart, including being directly responsible for J6, based on the lie that he has absolute proof that the Dems stole the election.

The reality is that Trump is one of the most polarizing political figures in the history of our country, he was saddled with an entirely unique national crises in the form of Covid, and the American people decided it was time to try something else. That is exponentially more likely than the vast left wing conspiracy, flawlessly executed in multiple states, that would have been required to successfully steal the election.

This isn’t my conversation here. I want to jump into your last paragraph. You know my opinion on the election. There will never be proof imo. Not enough. The way the election was conducted. There is no way to find it. And yes, the democrats ground game is nothing short of amazing. So I have no doubts coordinating this would be no issue at all.

The problem I have is with your last paragraph. I actually have no issues with your skepticism about trump claiming he has absolute proof. The statements you made about him. If he did, it would be out there by now.

My issue is the vote count. The firsts in this past election. The lack of support for Biden on any level prior to the election. He was the very worst candidate the democrats have maybe ever put forward. He was compromised and working at 70 percent during his campaign. Same way he is 50/50 now between vacations and work. He got more votes than Obama. So many firsts happen. Why does it drive anyone with tds or the left crazy to suggest something wasn’t right. To me that just seems like common sense. While we were in the midst of the worst of the pandemic. Those kind of numbers were produced. I am sorry. Again, common sense thinking would tell you it should have been investigated Thoroughly from day one. Even if trump won. I don’t have near the knowledge of zona about. I don’t know many who do. The simplest explanation seems to easily apply here.

 

[poochpup]

Most importantly, Trump is a 4 times indicted criminal defendant. Manipulating the value of his real estate holdings to both cheat on taxes owed and cheating lenders on under secured loans. Orchastrating an attempt to literally steal the 2020 Presidential election.
Stupidly refusing to return official White House/government classified documents, both "secret and top secret". Lost a very embarrassing "sexual assault" Civil action, resulting in humiliation and large money verdict.
He's stupid beyond belief; just ask any of his former top cabinet appointees their opinions of Trump's intellect and his competency In heading our government. Won't read, can't read and comprehend, essential briefings. Snuggles with the murderous Putin, loves up the dangerously disturbed Korean criminal.

That's just scratching the surface of Trump's unfitness to lead the nation. Haven't begun to list the various fines, judgments, settlements for various fraudulent capers.
Anyone who can read or listen knows he is nothing if not a two bit liar, grifter, dead beat and apparently proud of it.
And, most importantly... America KNOWS it.

 

[Zonadog]

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. The reason I keep bringing up the case in NC is because the key vulnerability for any large scale election fraud is the human element. Absent some digital hacking effort, which I think the states have the safeguards in place to detect after the fact if not stop from happening at all (as was the case with the Russian vote machine hacking effort in 2016), any large scale fraud would be a significantly manual effort requiring a large number of perpetrators. The more perpetrators the easier it is to find. That’s an absolute truth.

It’s just not reasonable to believe that this vast, multi-state scheme involving mastermind plotters and many, many foot soldiers executing the mechanics of the process have successfully avoided all detection.

But if, for the sake of argument, I concede that it’s really unknowable, which also means there in no proof, than that means DJT has been cynically tearing the country apart, including being directly responsible for J6, based on the lie that he has absolute proof that the Dems stole the election.

The reality is that Trump is one of the most polarizing political figures in the history of our country, he was saddled with an entirely unique national crises in the form of Covid, and the American people decided it was time to try something else. That is exponentially more likely than the vast left wing conspiracy, flawlessly executed in multiple states, that would have been required to successfully steal the election.

The NC cases show the difficulty of individuals trying to change the outcome. Yes, that would require a large effort. HOWEVER, to have an impact from inside the system is much less onerous. You don't have to break into thousands of machines, just change one policy or procedure on one day in key locations. You don't have to coordinate across states, or even across a single state, just in urban centers with like minded people in charge.

George Carlin said it best talking about the 2000 election on Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher.

"You don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge."

 

[zingerdawg]

I rarely stumble into Chat. I prefer to keep politics out of my discussions with my Dawg friends. But as a left leaning progressive, I do want to offer a counter opinion here. A few things that concern me about another Trump presidency.

Poor management of the deficit: The national debt increased 39 percent during Trump’s presidency. It amazes me how this use to be a bedrock position from the GOP, but is now completely forgotten.

Deregulation and Environmental Rollbacks: Trump pursued an aggressive deregulation agenda, rolling back numerous environmental protections and safeguards. His decision to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on climate change and his support for fossil fuel industries ran counter to the urgent need for action on climate change.

Economic Inequality and Tax Cuts for the Wealthy: While touting economic growth during his presidency, Trump's signature achievement in economic policy was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. While it provided temporary relief for many Americans, it overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and exacerbated income inequality. This policy further concentrated wealth at the top and failed to address the economic struggles of working-class Americans.

Surrounded himself with underqualified staff: Trump repeatedly hired the "greatest" individuals to serve on this staff and in his cabinet only to fire them and publicly degrade them the moment he felt they were not completely loyal to him (not the Presidency, not the Country, but him personally).

I'm not even touching on Trump as a person. I think he is narcissist and a liar. He abuses women. Claims to be Christain but when asked literally can't name a single book from Bible. He cares nothing about anyone other than himself.

I'm no huge fan of Biden, but I think he's done a decent job and continued our economic improvement. I also think that he, unlike Trump, is a sincere, devote man of principal.

One paragraph has some truth to it. Maybe two. Your last paragraph is such a tremendous joke I don’t know where to begin. Devout man of principal? He is a fifty year politician. He has been caught nipple pinching an 8 year old girl. He titty grabbed in public Eva Longoria. Had several sexual assault victims come forward. He also has been caught cheating and booted out of an election. He lied about his grades. By the way. He finished next to last in his class. Currently he lied about having top secret docs at his house, and at the very least his family has sold out this country for influence. Have you researched Biden at all. Jesus freaking Christ!!!!!! You sure researched trump.

They have done a fact check of every Biden speech recently. Not one single speech didn’t contain huge lies to the American people. Even cnn and Newsweek were shaking their heads.

You don’t like trump fine. But that last paragraph is a disgrace. Personally I have issues with trump too. He is a narcissist for sure. Those parts were true. God knows how many he has hurt to get where he is. But Biden a man of principle. F off with that bs.

The middle class and the poor were actually thriving under trump. You can’t even live normally any more with a teaching job. Because the rent is so high and inflation is so bad. The gap between the ultra rich and poor is widening by huge margins under Biden. People are surviving on their home equity. All of it fake money that will run out soon. Infrastructure jobs we created with tax payer money. Will also go away.

This country is truly screwed if you watch the msm so much this is how you feel about Biden. The fact that seven idiots liked your post to me is even worse. Watch this and tell me what kind of man Biden is. I dare you.

Here is you man of principle playing off doing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/biden.htm

Fact check: Biden tells three false personal anecdotes in economic speech | CNN Politics

President Joe Biden made three false claims about his own past in a Tuesday speech in Milwaukee.

amp.cnn.com

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/28/politics/fact-check-biden-economic-speech-january-2023/index.html

Last two speeches on the economy filled with lies. The msm didn’t tell you this. They quietly post this fact check trying hard not to hurt him in any way.

I want a reset. 2 new candidates. But saying Biden is principaled is the most idiotic thing ever posted here. And that covers a lot of ground. Tell me I am wrong. And don’t come back at me about trump. I capitulate on him as a person. Please remind me what kind of man Biden is.

 

[zingerdawg]

Most importantly, Trump is a 4 times indicted criminal defendant. Manipulating the value of his real estate holdings to both cheat on taxes owed and cheating lenders on under secured loans. Orchastrating an attempt to literally steal the 2020 Presidential election.
Stupidly refusing to return official White House/government classified documents, both "secret and top secret". Lost a very embarrassing "sexual assault" Civil action, resulting in humiliation and large money verdict.
He's stupid beyond belief; just ask any of his former top cabinet appointees their opinions of Trump's intellect and his competency In heading our government. Won't read, can't read and comprehend, essential briefings. Snuggles with the murderous Putin, loves up the dangerously disturbed Korean criminal.

That's just scratching the surface of Trump's unfitness to lead the nation. Haven't begun to list the various fines, judgments, settlements for various fraudulent capers.
Anyone who can read or listen knows he is nothing if not a two bit liar, grifter, dead beat and apparently proud of it.
And, most importantly... America KNOWS it.

Wonder if Americans know this. I get the trump hate. Have you done any research on Biden? If you are a democrat, did you like trump when he was one of your own for forty years. All these fraudulent capers done and gotten away with while he carried that big D symbol by his name. Amazing when all these indictments start to roll in. I can’t put my finger on what changed. He isn’t a good person. I think everyone knew that going in. We have had the choice of Hillary, joe and trump in the last two elections. Being a good person obviously isn’t a qualifier for the job. Or being a quality leader. It is which do you think is the lesser of two evils. Ironically if you are a democrat trump gives you the best of both worlds. Mostly he governs like one. He has been one for most of his life.

You talk about trump reading. Let’s take a look at what the current guy can’t do. Read a teleprompter. That isn’t hearsay. He screws that up every day. Ride a bike. Walk up stairs without falling. Walk off a stage without falling or getting lost. This is all on camera. You don’t have to go off secondhand knowledge from cnn. He literally f’s up numbers every single speech he makes. As the president, he can’t do an actual question and answer. This is the most egregious. Also, Can’t go without a long nap daily or vacationing half the time in office. He pisses on himself daily. And not because he is afraid china will invade Taiwan. This is where we are. I will give you credit. You didn’t say you believe Biden is a devout man of principal like the gentleman above. I appreciate that.

 

[willdup]

This isn’t my conversation here. I want to jump into your last paragraph. You know my opinion on the election. There will never be proof imo. Not enough. The way the election was conducted. There is no way to find it. And yes, the democrats ground game is nothing short of amazing. So I have no doubts coordinating this would be no issue at all.

The problem I have is with your last paragraph. I actually have no issues with your skepticism about trump claiming he has absolute proof. The statements you made about him. If he did, it would be out there by now.

My issue is the vote count. The firsts in this past election. The lack of support for Biden on any level prior to the election. He was the very worst candidate the democrats have maybe ever put forward. He was compromised and working at 70 percent during his campaign. Same way he is 50/50 now between vacations and work. He got more votes than Obama. So many firsts happen. Why does it drive anyone with tds or the left crazy to suggest something wasn’t right. To me that just seems like common sense. While we were in the midst of the worst of the pandemic. Those kind of numbers were produced. I am sorry. Again, common sense thinking would tell you it should have been investigated Thoroughly from day one. Even if trump won. I don’t have near the knowledge of zona about. I don’t know many who do. The simplest explanation seems to easily apply here.

I don’t think it’s difficult in any way to explain why Biden got so many votes. In fact it’s very simple. People were voting against Trump, and not only was it easy to see why at the time, everything about Trump’s behavior since the election has further justified that decision.

Trump is anti-democratic, full stop. Many people like myself believe that issue is bigger than any policy differences.

And I see you are comparing Trump and Biden regarding honestly. Both have issues with the truth. But Biden’s lies can generally be categorized as political in nature and not causing harmful impact. Trump told the country that Covid was like the flu while telling Woodward that he knew it was deadly. Trump continues to lie about the election which has resulted in J6 and ongoing division in the country. Trump lied about his storage of very highly classified documents in his public club and he obstructed reasonable efforts to recover them. Our intelligence services will be assessing what damage that may have caused for years.

If the republicans ever succeed in surfacing proof of Joe participating in a bribery scheme, then you’ll have a reasonable comparison. Until then, it’s beyond a stretch.

 

[zingerdawg]

I don’t think it’s difficult in any way to explain why Biden got so many votes. In fact it’s very simple. People were voting against Trump, and not only was it easy to see why at the time, everything about Trump’s behavior since the election has further justified that decision.

Trump is anti-democratic, full stop. Many people like myself believe that issue is bigger than any policy differences.

And I see you are comparing Trump and Biden regarding honestly. Both have issues with the truth. But Biden’s lies can generally be categorized as political in nature and not causing harmful impact. Trump told the country that Covid was like the flu while telling Woodward that he knew it was deadly. Trump continues to lie about the election which has resulted in J6 and ongoing division in the country. Trump lied about his storage of very highly classified documents in his public club and he obstructed reasonable efforts to recover them. Our intelligence services will be assessing what damage that may have caused for years.

If the republicans ever succeed in surfacing proof of Joe participating in a bribery scheme, then you’ll have a reasonable comparison. Until then, it’s beyond a stretch.

Biden said China is good folks, folks. I think both trump and Biden have lied numerous times about more than politics. Saying this is beyond a stretch is rough. You watch that gold star parent above. You think he feels like that was a political lie. I can easily see trumps flaws. Why is it so hard for you to see what is in the White House now?

Maybe that is the simple answer. People hated trump so bad, they voted like crazy. You and I have had this convo in the past. Where you have contradicted yourself. I said no one cared to see Biden campaign or speak. You said it was in the middle of the worst pandemic ever. That is why people didn’t show despite being so passionate to brave it a short time later, and vote like no other time in the history of our country. By how many millions of votes? It can’t be both ways will. Covid didn’t stop the summer of love gatherings.

I guess the nipple pinching isn’t bad enough for you. Smh. To say he isn’t just as bad as trump. That makes me wonder. You just liked a post where the guy said Biden was a man of principle. And devout. While posting three days ago that pubs throw religion in your face not Dems.

You use COVID’s arguments when it benefits you. You don’t mention the massive amount of lies Fauci told. The freedom of speech that was crushed which probably cost lives as well. Ivermectin for one. There are so many at this point from both sides about covid I don’t know where to start. But Biden defending China on this goes down as one of the worst ever. Think of how bad that is.

 

[willdup]

Biden said China is good folks, folks. I think both trump and Biden have lied numerous times about more than politics. Saying to is beyond a stretch is rough. You watch that gold star parent above. You think he feels like that was a political lie. I can easily see trumps flaws. Why is it so hard for you to see what is in the White House now?

Maybe that is the simple answer. People hated trump so bad, they voted like crazy. You and I have had this convo in the past. Where you have contradicted yourself. I said no one cared to see Biden campaign or speak. You said it was in the middle of the worst pandemic ever. That is why people didn’t show despite being so passionate to brave it a short time later, and vote like no other time in the history of our country. By how many millions of votes? It can’t be both ways will.

I guess the nipple pinching isn’t bad enough for you. Smh. To say he isn’t just as bad as trump. That makes me wonder. You just liked a post where the guy said Biden was a man of principle. And devout. While posting three days ago that pubs throw religion in your face not Dems.

You use COVID’s arguments when it benefits you. You don’t mention the massive amount of lies Fauci told. The freedom of speech that was crushed which probably cost lives as well. Ivermectin for one. There are so many at this point from both sides abiut covid I don’t know where to start. But Biden defending China on this goes down as one of the worst too. Think of how bad that is.

That’s a lot to unpack and we always end up in the same place.

There isn’t a single event that has occurred since November 2020 that has led me to question my last vote. Biden is a mediocrity but if he loses the next election I believe he will do his duty and facilitate the peaceful transfer of power.

We already have irrefutable proof what can be expected from Trump, and that’s true whether he ends up convicted of charges related to J6 or not.

Maybe we will get lucky and end up with two new candidates next year. That would be better for the country, but I’m not counting on it.

 

[zingerdawg]

That’s a lot to unpack and we always end up in the same place.

There isn’t a single event that has occurred since November 2020 that has led me to question my last vote. Biden is a mediocrity but if he loses the next election I believe he will do his duty and facilitate the peaceful transfer of power.

We already have irrefutable proof what can be expected from Trump, and that’s true whether he ends up convicted of charges related to J6 or not.

Maybe we will get lucky and end up with two new candidates next year. That would be better for the country, but I’m not counting on it.

That wasn’t so hard. The last paragraph is the best thing you have posted in months. I appreciate that. And agree.

My point on all of the other election stuff is there were a ton of firsts at the time. And then a ton of firsts after the election. What happened on jan 6th was ridiculous. But even that has a mountain of unanswered questions. I am interested to see if they can prove without a doubt that trump was 100 percent behind breaching the capital.

Honestly, I think they wipe trump out from the election. They have to. There is no other choice now. Or they will lose the election big. Which still could happen either way. But without solid convictions of trump. They are done. The doj. The president. Dems in the senate and house. Going to be a blood bath. So they have to get him.

I don’t get how it isnt over for Biden already. Whether he is proven to be involved or not. He had top secret documents all over his house and his office. We know his family was peddling influence. That is proven. I am sure he has too, but even if not a smoking gun, isn’t connecting the dots bad enough. Just a thought. What is to say they haven’t been selling those secrets themselves without even needing joe. His total incompetence here should at the very least be in question. Fit for the job?

 

[deadduckdawg]

That’s a lot to unpack and we always end up in the same place.

There isn’t a single event that has occurred since November 2020 that has led me to question my last vote. Biden is a mediocrity but if he loses the next election I believe he will do his duty and facilitate the peaceful transfer of power.

We already have irrefutable proof what can be expected from Trump, and that’s true whether he ends up convicted of charges related to J6 or not.

Maybe we will get lucky and end up with two new candidates next year. That would be better for the country, but I’m not counting on it.

Trump left the White House on January 20th, the end of his term. He wished the new administration great luck and success. He’s not the first politician to refuse to concede.

 

[zingerdawg]

Trump left the White House on January 20th, the end of his term. He wished the new administration great luck and success. He’s not the first politician to refuse to concede.

I did not remember that. I went and researched it. He did. He also left Biden a long personal letter. That was not political. I thought he didn’t continue that tradition as well.

 

[deadduckdawg]

I did not remember that. I went and researched it. He did. He also left Biden a long personal letter. That was not political. I thought he didn’t continue that tradition as well.

And all the “peaceful transfer of power” talk is just CNN hysterics. January 20th 11:00AM he and Melania got in the helicopter and left the White House. Liberal media would have you believe they were marched out at gunpoint.

 

[willdup]

Trump left the White House on January 20th, the end of his term. He wished the new administration great luck and success. He’s not the first politician to refuse to concede.

Respectfully, I think you missed a few items in your Trump-election recap…

 

[Chopdawg75]

And all the “peaceful transfer of power” talk is just CNN hysterics. Jan 20th he and Melania left the WH. Liberal media would have you believe they were marched out at gunpoint.

And took a whole bunch of classified documents with them?

 

[zingerdawg]

And took a whole bunch of classified documents with them?

At least he knew he had them. Unlike puddin brain.

 

[deadduckdawg]

And took a whole bunch of classified documents with them?

What does that have to do with peaceful transfer of power, or did you just need to say something?

 

[Chopdawg75]

The Donald didn't really think he was transferring all his power, now did he? As long as he had some shiny classified docs to show off to his buddies, and his guests at Mar-A-Lago, he thinks he's still got some power.

Nothing says "I used to be President of the United States!" quite like a chandeliered shithouse full of highly classified documents, which of course really belong to you and me, not the Donald.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

The Donald didn't really think he was transferring all his power, now did he? As long as he had some shiny classified docs to show off to his buddies, and his guests at Mar-A-Lago, he thinks he's still got some power.

Nothing says "I used to be President of the United States!" quite like a chandeliered shithouse full of highly classified documents, which of course really belong to you and me, not the Donald.

Every POTUS in recent history has a right to possess classified docs and I'd bet my bottom dollar every one of them has some in their possession that would be deemed as governmental function rather than personal function docs. And if you want to talk about interrupting the peaceful transfer of power, go back and read some of the emails between Strozk and Page about the insurance policy and compare that to the actions of the DOJ during and after the election.

 

[Dawgfan1966]

Every POTUS in recent history has a right to possess classified docs and I'd bet my bottom dollar every one of them has some in their possession that would be deemed as governmental function rather than personal function docs. And if you want to talk about interrupting the peaceful transfer of power, go back and read some of the emails between Strozk and Page about the insurance policy and compare that to the actions of the DOJ during and after the election.

Facts to liberals are like shock collars to dogs! They wince at the mention of factual discussion that differs from their trained thought's from the media and leftist drivel on television and radio.