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USA sure seems hell-bent on entering WW3 by any means necessary

Pine_Tree1

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Jun 22, 2018
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Ukraine is not our ally and never has been. Yet even after promising only defensive weapons to Ukraine, we're sending them tanks and while already being the single biggest funder of money to the Russian/Ukraine border conflict (even more than Russia) how many more billions of dollars are we giving them now?

If WW3 does officially commence, historians will look back and say that WW3 has already started and America was not only a huge reason it started but also already part of the war.

there will be no winners in WW3.

We & Russia spent 70+ years trying to avoid direct conflict between us. Now we are like F it, let's roll when Americans don't have the resources, supply chains, training for conventional warfare, or resolve to win a major world war
 
Ukraine is not our ally and never has been. Yet even after promising only defensive weapons to Ukraine, we're sending them tanks and while already being the single biggest funder of money to the Russian/Ukraine border conflict (even more than Russia) how many more billions of dollars are we giving them now?

If WW3 does officially commence, historians will look back and say that WW3 has already started and America was not only a huge reason it started but also already part of the war.

there will be no winners in WW3.

We & Russia spent 70+ years trying to avoid direct conflict between us. Now we are like F it, let's roll when Americans don't have the resources, supply chains, training for conventional warfare, or resolve to win a major world war
That idiot in the White House is trying his best to destroy our country by any means he can. He hates the US and the middle working class.
 
Ukraine is not our ally and never has been. Yet even after promising only defensive weapons to Ukraine, we're sending them tanks and while already being the single biggest funder of money to the Russian/Ukraine border conflict (even more than Russia) how many more billions of dollars are we giving them now?

If WW3 does officially commence, historians will look back and say that WW3 has already started and America was not only a huge reason it started but also already part of the war.

there will be no winners in WW3.

We & Russia spent 70+ years trying to avoid direct conflict between us. Now we are like F it, let's roll when Americans don't have the resources, supply chains, training for conventional warfare, or resolve to win a major world war
But we're protecting democracy.
 
Ukraine is not our ally and never has been. Yet even after promising only defensive weapons to Ukraine, we're sending them tanks and while already being the single biggest funder of money to the Russian/Ukraine border conflict (even more than Russia) how many more billions of dollars are we giving them now?

If WW3 does officially commence, historians will look back and say that WW3 has already started and America was not only a huge reason it started but also already part of the war.

there will be no winners in WW3.

We & Russia spent 70+ years trying to avoid direct conflict between us. Now we are like F it, let's roll when Americans don't have the resources, supply chains, training for conventional warfare, or resolve to win a major world war
I don’t know how anyone can argue with this. It is slowly deteriorating, and this moron, instead of trying to be a little diplomatic, is parading around like a f’ing idiot. Falling off the red carpet like a nursing home refugee, and tripping yet again boarding Air Force one. Could we possibly look any weaker than we do right now.

And he is driving headfirst into conflict. People may puff their chest out about or military. Yes it is great, but even they would admit not wanting to be in ww3.
 
Like most things, this subject is more nuanced than we want it to be. If you start your timeline at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, are you willing to say we should have sat on our hands and done nothing? Would your answer be the same if Putin’s intent (as he says it is) is to bring the borders back to pre 1991 and recapture much of Eastern Europe? And your answer cannot have the words Biden or Trump in it as for better or worse the president we had at the time of the invasion is who it is. On the other hand, there is a credible argument that actions we took well before 2022 encouraged or baited Putin to invade, the fact is we can never know. Perhaps if we had firmly said we support Ukraine Independence but even more firmly said they will not be a part of NATO, the invasion may have not occurred, but that is just speculation. The only thing we had to deal with 12 months ago was a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and we had a decision to make. And yes I stipulate Russian is corrupt, Ukraine is corrupt, and Biden has some unseemly family history in Ukraine, Mess.
 
I don’t know how anyone can argue with this. It is slowly deteriorating, and this moron, instead of trying to be a little diplomatic, is parading around like a f’ing idiot. Falling off the red carpet like a nursing home refugee, and tripping yet again boarding Air Force one. Could we possibly look any weaker than we do right now.

And he is driving headfirst into conflict. People may puff their chest out about or military. Yes it is great, but even they would admit not wanting to be in ww3.
flies to Ukraine to hand the corrupt actor-in-chief Zelensky another 50billion dollars while the people in East Palestine, OH and neighboring homes will never be able to sell their homes. Their homes are 100% valueless and no one will ever buy from them. Their financial lives will be ruined assuming they arent stricken by some serious ailments in the coming months/years.

Furthermore, the EPA and Buttijieg make no plans to visit East Palestine until Trump announces he's going to visit the people on the ground and now all of a sudden, they are want to visit to prevent Trump from getting a PR win. We are a disgusting country and any Republican in congress who wears Ukraine pins and supports further aid to Ukraine when Americans need it way more are just as disgusting and vile as any libtard woke liberal.
 
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Like most things, this subject is more nuanced than we want it to be. If you start your timeline at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, are you willing to say we should have sat on our hands and done nothing? Would your answer be the same if Putin’s intent (as he says it is) is to bring the borders back to pre 1991 and recapture much of Eastern Europe? And your answer cannot have the words Biden or Trump in it as for better or worse the president we had at the time of the invasion is who it is. On the other hand, there is a credible argument that actions we took well before 2022 encouraged or baited Putin to invade, the fact is we can never know. Perhaps if we had firmly said we support Ukraine Independence but even more firmly said they will not be a part of NATO, the invasion may have not occurred, but that is just speculation. The only thing we had to deal with 12 months ago was a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and we had a decision to make. And yes I stipulate Russian is corrupt, Ukraine is corrupt, and Biden has some unseemly family history in Ukraine, Mess.
History started way before even 1991.

Bottom line, has Russia ever been welcomed to join NATO?

If a global alliance that treated the USA as a global villain expanded through South and Central America and established a significant presence in Mexico under the guise of drills and business dealings, how would we react?

The world does not belong to us. We aren't the arbiters of justice no matter what our propaganda has taught us.
 
Like most things, this subject is more nuanced than we want it to be. If you start your timeline at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, are you willing to say we should have sat on our hands and done nothing? Would your answer be the same if Putin’s intent (as he says it is) is to bring the borders back to pre 1991 and recapture much of Eastern Europe? And your answer cannot have the words Biden or Trump in it as for better or worse the president we had at the time of the invasion is who it is. On the other hand, there is a credible argument that actions we took well before 2022 encouraged or baited Putin to invade, the fact is we can never know. Perhaps if we had firmly said we support Ukraine Independence but even more firmly said they will not be a part of NATO, the invasion may have not occurred, but that is just speculation. The only thing we had to deal with 12 months ago was a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and we had a decision to make. And yes I stipulate Russian is corrupt, Ukraine is corrupt, and Biden has some unseemly family history in Ukraine, Mess.
Not expanding NATO closer to Russia as originally intended, not sabotaging the Nord Stream Pipeline (which the US almost certainly did do), not being an active planning, funding, and training partner to Ukraine in this border conflict, and actually keeping our promises to not provide Ukraine with offensive weaponry and then months later completely ignoring that promise certainly has greatly heated up the tension between America and Russia and probably led to Putin feeling he had to invade Ukraine.

Ukraine is not an ally of America and never have been. They are not a NATO member. America was the single m= biggest monetary investor in the border conflict between Russia & Ukraine - even more than Russia (and that was before this latest 50billion dollars).

wtf are we doing?
 
I'm sick of this globalist agenda BS. America is a great country (perhaps the greatest country) and we have serious issues within our own country. We have a fraction of manufacturing we should have, we have people in Flint Michigan, Jackson MS, and now eastern Ohio/western PA who can't drink their water and may in fact be poisoned already, we have serious border issues, at least half the country can't afford a $500 debt without using credit, we get all our supplies from China, each passing generation is less prideful of American values, our culture is being destroyed, and the empire is crumbling.

I'm 100% in favor of America first, Americans first. I'm saddened for Ukraine. I know some Ukrainians but its not our war, not our people, and they are not our ally. We don't owe them a damn thing
 
Ukraine is not our ally and never has been. Yet even after promising only defensive weapons to Ukraine, we're sending them tanks and while already being the single biggest funder of money to the Russian/Ukraine border conflict (even more than Russia) how many more billions of dollars are we giving them now?

If WW3 does officially commence, historians will look back and say that WW3 has already started and America was not only a huge reason it started but also already part of the war.

there will be no winners in WW3.

We & Russia spent 70+ years trying to avoid direct conflict between us. Now we are like F it, let's roll when Americans don't have the resources, supply chains, training for conventional warfare, or resolve to win a major world war
And it is unlikely they will ever join NATO…..still feel bad for the innocent over there.
 
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History started way before even 1991.

Bottom line, has Russia ever been welcomed to join NATO?

If a global alliance that treated the USA as a global villain expanded through South and Central America and established a significant presence in Mexico under the guise of drills and business dealings, how would we react?

The world does not belong to us. We aren't the arbiters of justice no matter what our propaganda has taught us.
We can what if our way here and can’t prove much of anything. We can guess how things may have been different if we had done this or not done that, If we had been nicer to the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor and maintained their access to oil and other supplies, we may have not entered WW2 and the Axis may have won And had far more Military and economic power than we dI’d and do. Would that have been in our self interest? All we know with certainty is that Russia invaded Ukraine and the Russian president said his objective was to reestablish pre 1991 boundaries. i don’t know what the right answer is, I do know there are risks with the approach we have taken and with doing nothing. From the reality of where we are, hopefully there is a negotiated solution that makes no one happy.
 
And it is unlikely they will ever join NATO…..still feel bad for the innocent over there.
i do too. almost all of the Ukraine soldiers, citizens, and Russian soldiers are innocent. I feel bad for them all but it's not our war, not our conflict. I wish there was no war but there is and the USA is actually making the war worse and harder for diplomacy to prevail by our actions
 
I joined the military because I wanted to go to Iraq. I drank the koolaid and was pretty pro war. Fastforward 15 years and I'm one of the loudest anti-war advocates you'll find --- especially meaningless wars that can/should be avoided. and especially a war that has the potential to end modern civilization as we know it with a few wrong decisions
 
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i do too. almost all of the Ukraine soldiers, citizens, and Russian soldiers are innocent. I feel bad for them all but it's not our war, not our conflict. I wish there was no war but there is and the USA is actually making the war worse and harder for diplomacy to prevail by our actions
Believe me, I get it……money, equipment, etc & it’s still all probably going to be for a losing cause.

Everything is being exhausted & China is sitting there in the catbirds seat…….afraid we are getting played, hope I’m wrong.
 
Believe me, I get it……money, equipment, etc & it’s still all probably going to be for a losing cause.

Everything is being exhausted & China is sitting there in the catbirds seat…….afraid we are getting played, hope I’m wrong.
we are playing ourselves. We are almost 100% reliant on China for supply chains, our manufacturing, and our medical supplies. our country sold its soul and potentially its freedom years ago for profit
 
Been saying that for years…..afraid we all are going to be speaking Mandarin soon….
I spend too much time wondering what will happen to us in America if China beats the US in armed conflict or peaceful takeover. They know where all of our natural and manufactured resources are.

I wonder if they'd just genocide all Americans or leave us alone. If I was them, I'd drop a few EMPs over the continental USA. after about a year of no power, famine, no money, community warfare, fighting amongst neighbors, I think a lot of Americans would gladly trade their freedom to be sweat shop pawns for the Chinese extracting resources back to Beijing with a smile on their faces for a few dollars a week, some food, and some basic protection and purpose.

One thing is pretty certain, CFB will be no more as will the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, sports betting, etc.
 
I spend too much time wondering what will happen to us in America if China beats the US in armed conflict or peaceful takeover. They know where all of our natural and manufactured resources are.

I wonder if they'd just genocide all Americans or leave us alone. If I was them, I'd drop a few EMPs over the continental USA. after about a year of no power, famine, no money, community warfare, fighting amongst neighbors, I think a lot of Americans would gladly trade their freedom to be sweat shop pawns for the Chinese extracting resources back to Beijing with a smile on their faces for a few dollars a week, some food, and some basic protection and purpose.

One thing is pretty certain, CFB will be no more as will the NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, sports betting, etc.
You’re going to worry yourself sick. Control the controllables, fight for what you believe in and hope for the best.
 
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If China dropped an EMP over the US mainland, we would nuke them immediately with our Boomer fleet & the world would end for everyone.
 
Like most things, this subject is more nuanced than we want it to be. If you start your timeline at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, are you willing to say we should have sat on our hands and done nothing? Would your answer be the same if Putin’s intent (as he says it is) is to bring the borders back to pre 1991 and recapture much of Eastern Europe? And your answer cannot have the words Biden or Trump in it as for better or worse the president we had at the time of the invasion is who it is. On the other hand, there is a credible argument that actions we took well before 2022 encouraged or baited Putin to invade, the fact is we can never know. Perhaps if we had firmly said we support Ukraine Independence but even more firmly said they will not be a part of NATO, the invasion may have not occurred, but that is just speculation. The only thing we had to deal with 12 months ago was a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and we had a decision to make. And yes I stipulate Russian is corrupt, Ukraine is corrupt, and Biden has some unseemly family history in Ukraine, Mess.
As you suggest, I believe if we (U.S.) had made a public statement to the fact that we would oppose Ukraine ever being a NATO member it might have helped avoid the current situation. Even now, the rhetoric coming out of Ukraine is them boasting they’ll have tanks in Moscow. Not just defending their country. We don’t seem to be making any diplomatic efforts to end this war. No Ukrainian or Russian should be dying at this point. Instead the U.S. and Biden administration seem to be pouring gasoline on the fire while sending billions over there with little accountability.
 
History started way before even 1991.

Bottom line, has Russia ever been welcomed to join NATO?

If a global alliance that treated the USA as a global villain expanded through South and Central America and established a significant presence in Mexico under the guise of drills and business dealings, how would we react?

The world does not belong to us. We aren't the arbiters of justice no matter what our propaganda has taught us.
Very good post. No one seems to ever consider how the expansion of NATO is considered a direct threat to Russia. Besides, a lot of folks I know wouldn’t want to die defending California much less some of the countries who’ve joined NATO.
 
We can what if our way here and can’t prove much of anything. We can guess how things may have been different if we had done this or not done that, If we had been nicer to the Japanese prior to Pearl Harbor and maintained their access to oil and other supplies, we may have not entered WW2 and the Axis may have won And had far more Military and economic power than we dI’d and do. Would that have been in our self interest? All we know with certainty is that Russia invaded Ukraine and the Russian president said his objective was to reestablish pre 1991 boundaries. i don’t know what the right answer is, I do know there are risks with the approach we have taken and with doing nothing. From the reality of where we are, hopefully there is a negotiated solution that makes no one happy.
Ukraine isn't interested in negotiating.

China is all but in on Russia's side. Russia didn't just wake up one day and decide to invade. Provocation isn't "what if". NATO and the West absolutely provoked Russia. Hell, we destabilized Ukraine. The USA has invaded countries all over the world and hidden behind protecting democracy in doing so.

Right or wrong isn't the issue. We are largely responsible for what is happening because we stick our nose in everyone's business.
 
Not expanding NATO closer to Russia as originally intended, not sabotaging the Nord Stream Pipeline (which the US almost certainly did do), not being an active planning, funding, and training partner to Ukraine in this border conflict, and actually keeping our promises to not provide Ukraine with offensive weaponry and then months later completely ignoring that promise certainly has greatly heated up the tension between America and Russia and probably led to Putin feeling he had to invade Ukraine.

Ukraine is not an ally of America and never have been. They are not a NATO member. America was the single m= biggest monetary investor in the border conflict between Russia & Ukraine - even more than Russia (and that was before this latest 50billion dollars).

wtf are we doing?
Only thing that makes any sense is there must be something going on in Ukraine the globalist American empire is desperate to keep hidden from the public.
 
Biden has driven Russia right in to China’s arms and getting them involved will tilt all of Europe being in play for a take over. NATO will be forced to get involved and WWIII will commence. We are basically at war with Russia right now, just no troops involved.
Putin smelled weakness in Biden and took advantage. Xi will most likely invade Taiwan soon and we won’t be able to do a thing,
 
Biden has driven Russia right in to China’s arms and getting them involved will tilt all of Europe being in play for a take over. NATO will be forced to get involved and WWIII will commence. We are basically at war with Russia right now, just no troops involved.
Putin smelled weakness in Biden and took advantage. Xi will most likely invade Taiwan soon and we won’t be able to do a thing,
Can't we send a few billion dollars a month to Taiwan?
 
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Like most things, this subject is more nuanced than we want it to be. If you start your timeline at Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, are you willing to say we should have sat on our hands and done nothing? Would your answer be the same if Putin’s intent (as he says it is) is to bring the borders back to pre 1991 and recapture much of Eastern Europe? And your answer cannot have the words Biden or Trump in it as for better or worse the president we had at the time of the invasion is who it is. On the other hand, there is a credible argument that actions we took well before 2022 encouraged or baited Putin to invade, the fact is we can never know. Perhaps if we had firmly said we support Ukraine Independence but even more firmly said they will not be a part of NATO, the invasion may have not occurred, but that is just speculation. The only thing we had to deal with 12 months ago was a Russian invasion of Ukraine, and we had a decision to make. And yes I stipulate Russian is corrupt, Ukraine is corrupt, and Biden has some unseemly family history in Ukraine, Mess.

I think most understand that geopolitics is complex, nuanced and beyond the grasp of everyday citizens because we aren't given all of the information or even 100% truthful information. However, I do think most Americans understand and don't agree with the U.S. footing the bill for the defense of European nations that should be capable of carrying the majority of the burden.

So, on the face of it, I can see that even though Putin may be acting irrationally in a western point of view, his actions were entirely predictable based on the west breaking assurances that NATO wouldn't expand towards his borders. I can understand the idea of treating a tyrant as a friend in the hopes he would act as a friend but I can't understand the actions of pre Trump era admins and Europe not treating Putin very cautiously and trading in areas that make sense but without enriching him and or becoming dependent on him. (China falls in this category as well).

I have no issue with an informed foreign policy expert explaining why one of my positions on an individual policy may not be possible due to complexities or nuance. Otoh, when that same group has driven the bus into the ditch constantly in the past and now seems to be headed full speed for the cliff, I don't think they deserve the benefit of a doubt. In this case, if Europe doesn't want to take the lead and provide for the lion's share of the burden, I'm not going to endorse going to war with Russia on their behalf.
 
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First, provoking Russia by


I think most understand that geopolitics is complex, nuanced and beyond the grasp of everyday citizens because we are given all of the information or even 100% truthful information. However, I do think most Americans understand and don't agree with the U.S. footing the bill for the defense of European nations that should be capable for carrying the majority of the burden.

So, on the face of it, I can see that even though Putin may be acting irrationally in a western point of view, his actions were entirely predictable based on the west breaking assurances that NATO wouldn't expand towards his borders. I can understand the idea of treating a tyrant as a friend in the hopes he would act as a friend but I can't understand the actions of pre Trump era admins and Europe not treating Putin very cautiously and trading in areas that make sense but without enriching him and or becoming dependent on him. (China falls in this category as well).

I have no issue with an informed foreign policy expert explaining why one of my positions on an individual policy may not be possible due to complexities or nuance. Otoh, when that same group has driven the bus into the ditch constantly in the past and now seems to be headed full speed for the cliff, I don't think they deserve the benefit of a doubt. In this case, if Europe doesn't want to take the lead and provide the lion's share of the burden, I'm not going to endorse going to war with Russia on their behalf.
During a presidential debate, Obama smugly told Romney that the 1980’s called and want their foreign policy back when discussing Russia as a geopolitical threat.
I’m not a Romney fan but he was right and Obama and now Biden have gotten us in to a mess.
 
During a presidential debate, Obama smugly told Romney that the 1980’s called and want their foreign policy back when discussing Russia as a geopolitical threat.
I’m not a Romney fan but he was right and Obama and now Biden have gotten us in to a mess.
It goes back farther than O. W looked into his eyes. For cripes sake, we had to hitch a ride to space on their spacecraft and Hillary was soliciting US donations for Skolkovo. For no reason other than wishful thinking, we and parts of the west started treating Putin like an ally.
 
Ukraine is not our ally and never has been. Yet even after promising only defensive weapons to Ukraine, we're sending them tanks and while already being the single biggest funder of money to the Russian/Ukraine border conflict (even more than Russia) how many more billions of dollars are we giving them now?

If WW3 does officially commence, historians will look back and say that WW3 has already started and America was not only a huge reason it started but also already part of the war.

there will be no winners in WW3.

We & Russia spent 70+ years trying to avoid direct conflict between us. Now we are like F it, let's roll when Americans don't have the resources, supply chains, training for conventional warfare, or resolve to win a major world war
Ukraine has been an ally since 1991 when the Soviet Union broke up. They are one of the only democratic countries in the region and a major check on Russian aggression, considering how bad this war has gone for Russia, with estimates of 200k+ casualities on the Russian side.

And first of all, Russia launched an unprovoked invasion of its neighbor and its soldiers have committed war crimes, deportation of children and too many rapes and executions of Ukraine's citizens to count. Also, it’s important to realize that the U.S. is not a combatant. We have provided the Ukrainians with weapons, training, and financial aid, but we have not sent our forces to do any of the fighting. The Ukrainians themselves are deeply committed to pushing Russia out of their territory. To suggest that the U.S. hold back from liberating these territories is to suggest that the U.S. abandon those innocent people to their horrific fate.

But looking at the changes in Russia’s domestic policy and society since the war began, it’s clear that Putin is reorienting his entire country toward a protracted confrontation with the West. That means that no matter how the Ukraine War resolves, there is going to be a long-term, Cold War style confrontation with Russia — possibly even after Putin is out of power, depending on who succeeds him. Every Russian tank and missile launcher that the Ukrainians destroy, therefore, weakens Russia’s hand in this eventual confrontation. The U.S. and Europe are achieving the destruction of their enemy’s military without taking a single casualty of their own. All they’re sending is spare equipment and money. And not even that much money, really — The Korean War, in its final year, cost about 14% of America’s entire GDP; the Ukraine War is costing 0.17%.

And finally, stopping Russia is extremely helpful for stopping China. If China sees Russia successfully conquer a quarter of Ukraine, it will be emboldened to attack Taiwan. If China’s leaders see a Ukrainian defeat come after U.S. pressure forced the country to concede, it will raise serious questions about America’s resolve in defending the liberal international order.

So a successful outcome in the Ukraine War — meaning Ukraine driving Russia out of all the territory it has seized since 2022 — will do much more than simply save a bunch of Ukrainian lives. It has the potential to short-circuit the clash of liberal vs. authoritarian great powers that was shaping up just a few months ago.

Protecting the innocent people of Ukraine from atrocity is important. Enforcing the norm of fixed international borders is important. Weakening Putin’s Russia is important. But if there’s even a small chance of preventing World War 3, I think that’s easily worth a few tens of billions of dollars.
 
Ukraine has been an ally since 1991 when the Soviet Union broke up. They are one of the only democratic countries in the region and a major check on Russian aggression, considering how bad this war has gone for Russia, with estimates of 200k+ casualities on the Russian side.

And first of all, Russia launched an unprovoked invasion of its neighbor and its soldiers have committed war crimes, deportation of children and too many rapes and executions of Ukraine's citizens to count. Also, it’s important to realize that the U.S. is not a combatant. We have provided the Ukrainians with weapons, training, and financial aid, but we have not sent our forces to do any of the fighting. The Ukrainians themselves are deeply committed to pushing Russia out of their territory. To suggest that the U.S. hold back from liberating these territories is to suggest that the U.S. abandon those innocent people to their horrific fate.

But looking at the changes in Russia’s domestic policy and society since the war began, it’s clear that Putin is reorienting his entire country toward a protracted confrontation with the West. That means that no matter how the Ukraine War resolves, there is going to be a long-term, Cold War style confrontation with Russia — possibly even after Putin is out of power, depending on who succeeds him. Every Russian tank and missile launcher that the Ukrainians destroy, therefore, weakens Russia’s hand in this eventual confrontation. The U.S. and Europe are achieving the destruction of their enemy’s military without taking a single casualty of their own. All they’re sending is spare equipment and money. And not even that much money, really — The Korean War, in its final year, cost about 14% of America’s entire GDP; the Ukraine War is costing 0.17%.

And finally, stopping Russia is extremely helpful for stopping China. If China sees Russia successfully conquer a quarter of Ukraine, it will be emboldened to attack Taiwan. If China’s leaders see a Ukrainian defeat come after U.S. pressure forced the country to concede, it will raise serious questions about America’s resolve in defending the liberal international order.

So a successful outcome in the Ukraine War — meaning Ukraine driving Russia out of all the territory it has seized since 2022 — will do much more than simply save a bunch of Ukrainian lives. It has the potential to short-circuit the clash of liberal vs. authoritarian great powers that was shaping up just a few months ago.

Protecting the innocent people of Ukraine from atrocity is important. Enforcing the norm of fixed international borders is important. Weakening Putin’s Russia is important. But if there’s even a small chance of preventing World War 3, I think that’s easily worth a few tens of billions of dollars.
You wrote a lot and I'm certain you made great points but to call the invasion completely unprovoked is false
 
You wrote a lot and I'm certain you made great points but to call the invasion completely unprovoked is false
It didn't take too long to debunk everything that guy had to say. And just on the surface, the guy is a comedian and knows absolutely nothing about Ukraine, but Dave Smith does have a history with the Proud Boys, Nick Fuentes and other fascist sympathizers...

 
Putin is hellbent on restoring Russia to it's existence in the early 1900's, per his speech on Tuesday. Ukraine is just the first of many steps in his twisted mind. If the west had just let him take over Kyiv in two weeks, Russia would be taking over half of Europe just like Germany did in the 40's.

At this point, even if he is forced to a negotiated settlement, he has probably re-established a global economy split between the democracies and totalitarian states.

 
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It didn't take too long to debunk everything that guy had to say. And just on the surface, the guy is a comedian and knows absolutely nothing about Ukraine, but Dave Smith does have a history with the Proud Boys, Nick Fuentes and other fascist sympathizers...

Comedian and libertarian political commentator. Per his Wikipedia page he has interviewed Gavin Mcinnes, Richard Spencer, and Christopher Cantwell. So interviewing extreme far right lunatics makes him one by default? He's also talked with moderates and leftists too.

Rogan had McInnes on for an episode of the JRE. Does that discredit any thought Rogan will ever have again? Rogan also featured Dave Smith, Alex Jones, Milo Y, Crowder, Ben Shapiro, Kanye West, Candace Owens, and (insert other conservative talking heads and controversial figures)

Also refered to Nick Fuentes as a "fellow traveler". Are you 100% sure he didn't mean traveler what a lot of gypsies refer to themselves as? Honestly I don't know but I've heard the term traveler used in contest of being gypsy a lot.

Dave Smith may or may not be a POS. That's not for me to judge based off the limited info about him out there.

I don't believe giving someone (no matter how controversial) a platform to speak makes you guilty by association. Doesn't mean he's not...
 
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Putin is hellbent on restoring Russia to it's existence in the early 1900's, per his speech on Tuesday. Ukraine is just the first of many steps in his twisted mind. If the west had just let him take over Kyiv in two weeks, Russia would be taking over half of Europe just like Germany did in the 40's.

At this point, even if he is forced to a negotiated settlement, he has probably re-established a global economy split between the democracies and totalitarian states.

Exactly. We already looked the other way in Crimea and backed down when he interfered in Syria. Then he did something bolder. He won’t stop until someone stops him. One day he’d invade a country we found alarming and suddenly people would wonder why he wasn’t stopped earlier. Iraq and Afghanistan gave us war fatigue. We made mistakes but the answer isn’t to retreat into ourselves.
 
i do too. almost all of the Ukraine soldiers, citizens, and Russian soldiers are innocent. I feel bad for them all but it's not our war, not our conflict. I wish there was no war but there is and the USA is actually making the war worse and harder for diplomacy to prevail by our actions
I don’t think Putin would have pulled this if Trump was still in charge. He knows the US is now run by pussies and men who claim to be women! We could not get much weaker than we are at this point in time. Expect more world issues to arise, due to a very weak an ineffective US.
 
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