How is Requiring Voter ID even controversial?

[MarcusBarcus]

T

No one has ever shot anyone at the hospital where I work. They therefore should not have rules banning firearms. No one has ever stolen a newborn baby, either. Let’s just leave the doors unlocked.
There have been no problems, what’s with those rules to solve problems that don’t exist?

The answer is obvious. Non-citizens shouldn’t vote. That debate stops right there. Democrats voting against this legislation is quite telling about how much they care about their constituents.
Your Big Boy, who is now forty-nine minutes late for a press conference that is supposed to renew our confidence in him, left open our border. That’s why this legislation is necessary, and now.
The Machiavelliocrats don’t care how they get elected; just gain power by hook or by crook. That’s why this legislation is necessary.

 

[Eastmandawg]

The answer is obvious. Non-citizens shouldn’t vote. That debate stops right there. Democrats voting against this legislation is quite telling about how much they care about their constituents.
Your Big Boy, who is now forty-nine minutes late for a press conference that is supposed to renew our confidence in him, left open our border. That’s why this legislation is necessary, and now.
The Machiavelliocrats don’t care how they get elected; just gain power by hook or by crook. That’s why this legislation is necessary.

“The Machiavelliocrats”???……hey, I LIKE IT!

On a side note, pretty sure he is holding out for money. He has them all by the coconuts.

They all are Machiavellians imo.

 

[TivoliDawg]

Colorado has had universal mail in voting since 2013 and has never had an issue.

How many cases have we had of non-citizens voting illegally? According to the Heritage Foundation database of voter fraud cases in the US, there are 1,513 instances of voter fraud of all kinds going back to the 1980s. I didn’t find much in their database about non-citizens voting.

So what problem are we trying to solve?

you don’t say “ i’ll wait until I’m in a car accident to put on my seatbelt“. You prevent obvious problems before they occur. Whether or not any voting by illegal aliens was ever caught. Previously is not relevant to the fact that it’s easy to do now.

 

[ugaboz]

The problem is that some want to require proof of citizenship. It makes sense but how many have access to their birth certificate or passport. Drivers license is a good idea.

good lord
what a fing joke

 

[ugaboz]

This is the dims way of saying, "people of color are too stupid to get a license or birth certificate." Remember, according to one of their own, they dont know what a computer is.

bingo

 

[ugaboz]

when does kamala harris take over?

 

[ugaboz]

Colorado sent out 30,000 voter registration reminder cards to non-citizens in September of 2022. The mailing list came from a list of people with a Colorado driver's license, but no voter registration. There was nothing in their data query to prevent inclusion of non-citizens. This is done by the SoS office each voting cycle, but was only caught in 2022. SoS Jena Griswold said she was unaware of any of the 30,000 non-citizens registering to vote. Colorado began issuing driver's licenses to non-citizens in 2019.

Also in Colorado, in May of 2021 SoS Griswold advised each county clerk that Dominion personnel would be coming to update software in their voting systems. The clerks were ordered NOT to back up their systems prior to the software install. The "software update" removed all 2020 election data from the county systems - not a normal feature of a software update - just six months after the election.

Colorado allows "same day" registration, meaning you can register and vote on the same day. Once the ballot is cast, it cannot be retrieved or matched to a voter. In 2022, a Guatemalan refugee living in Colorado registered and voted at 3 voting station in Pueblo County, CO. The perpetrator was caught by an election watchdog group and reported to the Sheriff's Department. A Pueblo County deputy found the perpetrator at a local homeless center with 3 forged state I.D. cards, each with a fictitious name and an actual Pueblo County address. The deputy informed the Pueblo County Election board but was told all it could do was document the complaint.

damn
libs will call you racist

 

[ToddBburn]

I'd agree if there were some meaningful number of proven cases of non-citizens voting, but there aren't.

After the scrutiny of 2020, if it was a real issue, shouldn't we have found at least a few hundred cases? A hundred cases? Fifty cases? There just no proof that this is an actual problem.

The only places where you would spend the time and money are places where the election was close. Those states did not audit for those types of irregularities.
My house has not been robbed but yet I lock my doors and have an alarm system. If you care about something you protect and take care of it.

 

[Zonadog]

These Georgia Representatives voted against proof of citizenship:

Sanford Bishop, District 2
Hank Johnson, District 4
Nikema Williams, District 5
Lucy McBath, District 7
David Scott, District 13

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

These Georgia Representatives voted against proof of citizenship:

Sanford Bishop, District 2
Hank Johnson, District 4
Nikema Williams, District 5
Lucy McBath, District 7
David Scott, District 13

View embedded media

@willdup

IDs have been required in GA longer than I've been alive yet I never heard anyone complaining about being denied the right to vote because of it so what problem are these reps trying to solve?

 

[willdup]

Doesn’t mean it can’t become a problem

Looks to me like our government is actually attempting to be proactive

What’s wrong with that?

T

No one has ever shot anyone at the hospital where I work. They therefore should not have rules banning firearms. No one has ever stolen a newborn baby, either. Let’s just leave the doors unlocked.
There have been no problems, what’s with those rules to solve problems that don’t exist?

First, I must admit the thread was about proof of citizenship and not initially focused on requiring ID. Two different issues, so my mistake.

Neither of you are wrong here. For me, the starting position is that we should make voting as expansive and accessible as possible, balanced against the safeguards needed to ensure an acceptable (meaning a statistically insignificant/close to zero) number of fraudulent votes end up being counted.

For example, we could greatly reduce or eliminate DUIs by requiring that every car come installed with a breathalyzer that unlocks the ignition, but that's not a reasonable balance of risk/benefit.

As I mentioned above, Heritage Foundation maintains a database of documented election fraud cases in the US going back to 1982. They only have 1,513 proven cases of voter fraud, and a significant number of those were instances where the issue was found before an actual vote was cast. That does not indicate the presence of a meaningful problem.

The example above regarding firearms is interesting but not really relevant. Your hospital may not have had a shooting, but there have been a very significant number of shootings at hospitals and healthcare centers nationwide, including at my doctors' office in midtown Atlanta last May. It's an established threat with literal life and death implications. Comparing that to voter fraud, which has never been proven to be an issue, much less a life-or-death issue, doesn't hold up.

Having said all that, I think requiring a government ID is not an excessively high bar to register to vote. Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem.

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

First, I must admit the thread was about proof of citizenship and not initially focused on requiring ID. Two different issues, so my mistake.

Neither of you are wrong here. For me, the starting position is that we should make voting as expansive and accessible as possible, balanced against the safeguards needed to ensure an acceptable (meaning a statistically insignificant/close to zero) number of fraudulent votes end up being counted.

For example, we could greatly reduce or eliminate DUIs by requiring that every car come installed with a breathalyzer that unlocks the ignition, but that's not a reasonable balance of risk/benefit.

As I mentioned above, Heritage Foundation maintains a database of documented election fraud cases in the US going back to 1982. They only have 1,513 proven cases of voter fraud, and a significant number of those were instances where the issue was found before an actual vote was cast. That does not indicate the presence of a meaningful problem.

The example above regarding firearms is interesting but not really relevant. Your hospital may not have had a shooting, but there have been a very significant number of shootings at hospitals and healthcare centers nationwide, including at my doctors' office in midtown Atlanta last May. It's an established threat with literal life and death implications. Comparing that to voter fraud, which has never been proven to be an issue, much less a life-or-death issue, doesn't hold up.

Having said all that, I think requiring a government ID is not an excessively high bar to register to vote. Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem.

Proof of citizenship is too much? Why? Are you not familiar with US voter eligibility?

Who can and cannot vote | USAGov

Can you vote in federal, state, and local elections? Learn about qualifications such as citizenship, minimum age, registration, and more.

www.usa.gov

That's the law. It takes what it takes to enforce the law. If some states allow for non-citizens to vote in local elections, what does that have to do with a federal election?

Georgia requires US citizenship to register to vote. A person residing in a state that allows non-citizens to vote doesn't matter as they are not eligible to vote in a federal election anyway.

In states like GA, Real ID has been in place for a long time now. To get a GA driver's license, one must have GA residency and prove lawful status in the USA. US citizenship is easily traced in GA. Even before Real ID, I've never had to provide anything other than my DL to vote.

So in what way is proof of citizenship a burden?

 

[MRDAWG]

What's wrong with proof of citizenship, in order to vote?

Proof of citizenship should be required to register to vote. We don't need anything to slow down voting day. My wife and I stood in line 4 hours in 2020.

 

[Eastmandawg]

First, I must admit the thread was about proof of citizenship and not initially focused on requiring ID. Two different issues, so my mistake.

Neither of you are wrong here. For me, the starting position is that we should make voting as expansive and accessible as possible, balanced against the safeguards needed to ensure an acceptable (meaning a statistically insignificant/close to zero) number of fraudulent votes end up being counted.

For example, we could greatly reduce or eliminate DUIs by requiring that every car come installed with a breathalyzer that unlocks the ignition, but that's not a reasonable balance of risk/benefit.

As I mentioned above, Heritage Foundation maintains a database of documented election fraud cases in the US going back to 1982. They only have 1,513 proven cases of voter fraud, and a significant number of those were instances where the issue was found before an actual vote was cast. That does not indicate the presence of a meaningful problem.

The example above regarding firearms is interesting but not really relevant. Your hospital may not have had a shooting, but there have been a very significant number of shootings at hospitals and healthcare centers nationwide, including at my doctors' office in midtown Atlanta last May. It's an established threat with literal life and death implications. Comparing that to voter fraud, which has never been proven to be an issue, much less a life-or-death issue, doesn't hold up.

Having said all that, I think requiring a government ID is not an excessively high bar to register to vote. Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem.

“Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem”??

Does that mean illegals can vote IYO?

 

[Dawg 'n IT]

Proof of citizenship should be required to register to vote. We don't need anything to slow down voting day. My wife and I stood in line 4 hours in 2020.

Blame your local elections office for inefficiencies.

Are you sure that 4 hour wait was primarily due to people proving their US citizenship?

Please tell us what you and your wife had to do when it was your turn to check in. Were you treated differently than the people in front of you? If so, why?

 

[NedRacineDawg]

It is not. I remember our former Governor Roy Barnes claiming that it was raciest. It clearly is not, you have to know who is casting the ballots to have a fair election. These fake mail in ballots are the work of the bolshevik wind of the dems.

 

[Zonadog]

Proof of citizenship should be required to register to vote. We don't need anything to slow down voting day. My wife and I stood in line 4 hours in 2020.

The SAVE Act requires voters to provide documentary proof of citizenship at the time of registration. It amends the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA) by adding a requirement to provide proof of U.S. citizenship when registering to vote in federal elections.

 

[Booneville Dawg]

But there is no problem showing ID to get and use the EBT cards

 

[KidneyStoned]

You need a government ID to buy some over the counter medications like Sudafed. You also usually need one for job applications, domestic flights, entering certain govt buildings, anything related to driving/DMV & social security, any type of government welfare program benefits, usually for renting or buying apartments/housing, usually for establishing bank accounts, checking into many hotels, buying tobacco or alcohol, picking up certain packages from USPS, entering certain venues or events like stadiums or casinos, registering for certain legal or medical services, many educational programs, applying for loans & credit, joining gyms, getting a fishing license, etc.

Basically it's very hard to navigate life without some kind of govt issued ID

But requiring proof of ID to cast a vote is a bridge too far?

It should not be controversial. A person should have to satisfy basic requirements to vote, including showing identification.

 

[MarcusBarcus]

bingo

yep. We are witnessing in real time the soft bigotry of reduced expectations

 

[MarcusBarcus]

First, I must admit the thread was about proof of citizenship and not initially focused on requiring ID. Two different issues, so my mistake.

Neither of you are wrong here. For me, the starting position is that we should make voting as expansive and accessible as possible, balanced against the safeguards needed to ensure an acceptable (meaning a statistically insignificant/close to zero) number of fraudulent votes end up being counted.

For example, we could greatly reduce or eliminate DUIs by requiring that every car come installed with a breathalyzer that unlocks the ignition, but that's not a reasonable balance of risk/benefit.

As I mentioned above, Heritage Foundation maintains a database of documented election fraud cases in the US going back to 1982. They only have 1,513 proven cases of voter fraud, and a significant number of those were instances where the issue was found before an actual vote was cast. That does not indicate the presence of a meaningful problem.

The example above regarding firearms is interesting but not really relevant. Your hospital may not have had a shooting, but there have been a very significant number of shootings at hospitals and healthcare centers nationwide, including at my doctors' office in midtown Atlanta last May. It's an established threat with literal life and death implications. Comparing that to voter fraud, which has never been proven to be an issue, much less a life-or-death issue, doesn't hold up.

Having said all that, I think requiring a government ID is not an excessively high bar to register to vote. Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem.

First, I must admit the thread was about proof of citizenship and not initially focused on requiring ID. Two different issues, so my mistake.

Neither of you are wrong here. For me, the starting position is that we should make voting as expansive and accessible as possible, balanced against the safeguards needed to ensure an acceptable (meaning a statistically insignificant/close to zero) number of fraudulent votes end up being counted.

For example, we could greatly reduce or eliminate DUIs by requiring that every car come installed with a breathalyzer that unlocks the ignition, but that's not a reasonable balance of risk/benefit.

As I mentioned above, Heritage Foundation maintains a database of documented election fraud cases in the US going back to 1982. They only have 1,513 proven cases of voter fraud, and a significant number of those were instances where the issue was found before an actual vote was cast. That does not indicate the presence of a meaningful problem.

The example above regarding firearms is interesting but not really relevant. Your hospital may not have had a shooting, but there have been a very significant number of shootings at hospitals and healthcare centers nationwide, including at my doctors' office in midtown Atlanta last May. It's an established threat with literal life and death implications. Comparing that to voter fraud, which has never been proven to be an issue, much less a life-or-death issue, doesn't hold up.

Having said all that, I think requiring a government ID is not an excessively high bar to register to vote. Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem.

I’d argue that voter fraud is tantamount to treason. Like shooting someone at a hospital, treason is a capital crime.
“Oh but no no one was physically injured when people tried to steal elections.”
So what? It’s still unlawful. Is your argument that we should only try to pre-empt crime if someone is going to die?

 

[MarcusBarcus]

Also I love how your big boy, like most Democrats, talks so much about “our democracy”
It’s comical.
Because we are a republic. They’re different.
Democracy is two wolves and a chicken voting on what to have for supper.
We are a republic. This is not not ‘Nam Dude, there are rules.

 

[MarcusBarcus]

Also I love how your big boy, like most Democrats, talks so much about “our democracy”
It’s comical.
Because we are a republic. They’re different.
Democracy is two wolves and a chicken voting on what to have for supper.
We are a republic. This is not not ‘Nam Dude, there are rules.

Oh, one of the wolves just arrived from Venezuela.

 

[willdup]

“Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem”??

Does that mean illegals can vote IYO?

Of course not. When I registered to vote in Georgia, I was not required to provide a separate proof of citizenship. Does Georgia allow illegals to vote?

I’d argue that voter fraud is tantamount to treason. Like shooting someone at a hospital, treason is capital crime.
“Oh but no no one was physically injured when people tried to steal elections.”
So what? It’s still unlawful. Is your argument that we should only try to pre-empt crime if someone is going to die?

Overheated a bit? Of course we should take reasonable steps to prevent voter fraud. Given the fact that the 2020 election was by far the most scrutinized election in our history, and they didn’t find ANY meaningful voter fraud, it would seem our elections are already secure. I’m supportive of taking reasonable further action to continue to secure elections in the future, as long as the result doesn’t disenfranchise significant numbers of legitimate voters.

 

[MarcusBarcus]

First, I must admit the thread was about proof of citizenship and not initially focused on requiring ID. Two different issues, so my mistake.

Neither of you are wrong here. For me, the starting position is that we should make voting as expansive and accessible as possible, balanced against the safeguards needed to ensure an acceptable (meaning a statistically insignificant/close to zero) number of fraudulent votes end up being counted.

For example, we could greatly reduce or eliminate DUIs by requiring that every car come installed with a breathalyzer that unlocks the ignition, but that's not a reasonable balance of risk/benefit.

As I mentioned above, Heritage Foundation maintains a database of documented election fraud cases in the US going back to 1982. They only have 1,513 proven cases of voter fraud, and a significant number of those were instances where the issue was found before an actual vote was cast. That does not indicate the presence of a meaningful problem.

The example above regarding firearms is interesting but not really relevant. Your hospital may not have had a shooting, but there have been a very significant number of shootings at hospitals and healthcare centers nationwide, including at my doctors' office in midtown Atlanta last May. It's an established threat with literal life and death implications. Comparing that to voter fraud, which has never been proven to be an issue, much less a life-or-death issue, doesn't hold up.

Having said all that, I think requiring a government ID is not an excessively high bar to register to vote. Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem.

look I’m not trying to be an asshole to you you seem like a decent dude. Rational thought on your own without bias and not listening to the talking heads on TV will bring you around to our position every time. Illegals must not vote in our elections. I’m not interested in debating that point.
Trust me- there are plenty of us folks that love our children and love America that don’t want illegals voting for Democrats. I love this bill. Democrats destroy all they govern, and they want illegals to vote for them. You and I know they won’t “vote” many don’t hablas and can’t fill that out on their own.
That’s ok! Democrat operatives will do that for them!

 

[MarcusBarcus]

Also, the acceptable number of fraudulent ballots in an election is ZERO.

 

[MarcusBarcus]

Of course not. When I registered to vote in Georgia, I was not required to provide a separate proof of citizenship. Does Georgia allow illegals to vote?

Overheated a bit? Of course we should take reasonable steps to prevent voter fraud. Given the fact that the 2020 election was by far the most scrutinized election in our history, and they didn’t find ANY meaningful voter fraud, it would seem our elections are already secure. I’m supportive of taking reasonable further action to continue to secure elections in the future, as long as the result doesn’t disenfranchise significant numbers of legitimate voters.

😂They recounted the fraudulent ballots with my ballot and got the same number. See? No fraud!
Not overheated at all. Strange comment. Just trying to change hearts and minds one at a time, and I am admittedly passionate about my vote meaning something.
You are arguing to diminish what my vote means,
For you, there seems to be an acceptable level of fraudulent ballots in an election.
For you, it’s ok if maybe someone not legally eligible to vote casts a ballot that cancels out my wishes for my governance.
Thats where we part company.
I’m not interested in statistics this isn’t an argument about statistics.
It’s an argument about principle.
Why, again, should Congress not pass a bill disallowing someone here illegally to vote in our elections?
Our elected representatives passed that bill. Why again is it a bad idea? Is it really just that you think it’s a waste of their time?

 

[willdup]

You can’t really expect a process that involves 158 millions voters in fifty different states and administered by 3,143 counties to have a zero rate of failure.

The AP identified a potential of fraud in 475 cases in the battleground states with a total of 25m votes. Assuming that all of those cases are determined to involve fraud, that’s a .000019 failure rate. That's entirely acceptable for a process involving that many people.

 

[willdup]

😂They recounted the fraudulent ballots with my ballot and got the same number. See? No fraud!
Not overheated at all. Strange comment. Just trying to change hearts and minds one at a time, and I am admittedly passionate about my vote meaning something.
You are arguing to diminish what my vote means,
For you, there seems to be an acceptable level of fraudulent ballots in an election.
For you, it’s ok if maybe someone not legally eligible to vote casts a ballot that cancels out my wishes for my governance.
Thats where we part company.
I’m not interested in statistics this isn’t an argument about statistics.
It’s an argument about principle.
Why, again, should Congress not pass a bill disallowing someone here illegally to vote in our elections?
Our elected representatives passed that bill. Why again is it a bad idea? Is it really just that you think it’s a waste of their time?

It’s already illegal for non-citizens to vote in the US. The new bill this week didn’t change that.

 

[9ormore]

Im for ID, but there’s always been a tension between the right to vote and voter responsibility. There’s also a history of using responsibility to restrict the right.

There’s also a fear in some communities even with legal immigrants of “paperwork.”

Interestingly, some historically disenfranchised groups are coming to believe that illegal residents may be “stealing” their vote by being allowed to cast “illegal” votes.

But yea, since an illegal vote diminishes my vote - and therefore my privilege/right to vote - Im for an ID requirement. It’s reasonable compromise between right and responsibility. Unfortunately it’s part of the dance for power.

 

[jpzd33]

First, I must admit the thread was about proof of citizenship and not initially focused on requiring ID. Two different issues, so my mistake.

Neither of you are wrong here. For me, the starting position is that we should make voting as expansive and accessible as possible, balanced against the safeguards needed to ensure an acceptable (meaning a statistically insignificant/close to zero) number of fraudulent votes end up being counted.

For example, we could greatly reduce or eliminate DUIs by requiring that every car come installed with a breathalyzer that unlocks the ignition, but that's not a reasonable balance of risk/benefit.

As I mentioned above, Heritage Foundation maintains a database of documented election fraud cases in the US going back to 1982. They only have 1,513 proven cases of voter fraud, and a significant number of those were instances where the issue was found before an actual vote was cast. That does not indicate the presence of a meaningful problem.

The example above regarding firearms is interesting but not really relevant. Your hospital may not have had a shooting, but there have been a very significant number of shootings at hospitals and healthcare centers nationwide, including at my doctors' office in midtown Atlanta last May. It's an established threat with literal life and death implications. Comparing that to voter fraud, which has never been proven to be an issue, much less a life-or-death issue, doesn't hold up.

Having said all that, I think requiring a government ID is not an excessively high bar to register to vote. Proof of citizenship is in my view too much given it's never been shown to be a problem.

Wouldn't you want proof of citizenship? At least to register and then photo ID to vote? If that is required, then the claims of voter fraud and not accepting elections goes out the window... Really would help to shut up Trump and his supporters about the 20 election if that was required in all 50 states and prevent any sort of election questions for 24 if Trump loses.. Could have prevented J6 and potential more future J6

 

[oldmandawg]

Also I love how your big boy, like most Democrats, talks so much about “our democracy”
It’s comical.
Because we are a republic. They’re different.
Democracy is two wolves and a chicken voting on what to have for supper.
We are a republic. This is not not ‘Nam Dude, there are rules.

Dims are trying to make us into a democracy. Mob rule.

 

[Zonadog]

Of course not. When I registered to vote in Georgia, I was not required to provide a separate proof of citizenship. Does Georgia allow illegals to vote?

Real ID addresses that to an extent. More is needed.

Not so long ago, only those legally in the United States could have a driver's license and a social security number. Exceptions were tracked and clearly indicated. Not so anymore, with some states like California licensing illegals.

The lines have blurred and we need to adjust to keep up. Unfortunately, Chuck Schumer seems not to want that. Wonder why.

 

[MarcusBarcus]

It’s already illegal for non-citizens to vote in the US. The new bill this week didn’t change that.

If it didn’t change anything, then why are you arguing so vehemently against it?

 

[MarcusBarcus]

If it didn’t change anything, then why are you arguing so vehemently against it?

We already know. “Nothin’ to see here! No cheating going on and no illegal folks voting!”
While illegal aliens vote for Democrats like they’re told.
.00000000000017 percent is more than zero. Zero fraud is what is acceptable.