OMG...Trump just lost the black vote at the NABJ. Wow this is just brutal.

[shonuff253]

No, not what I'm saying at all. Jim Crow was horrific but during Jim Crow the AA community had much higher rates of 2 parent families and even though Jim Crow severely limited AAs from fully participating in the white economy, they were able to build their own community to some degree.

Having said that, the decline of the AA family began when the welfare system started taking fathers out of the home and the system evolved into an economic trap. Do you know that a person receiving food stamps and other assistance that takes a job will have them entirely cut off if they reach a certain income level that is well below the level it takes to live? So, instead of promoting the idea of advancing to become self sufficient and gradually lowering benes as income rises, the recipient has to decide whether they want to take what the system provide or take on the expense of food, shelter and medical insurance. That is what I'm talking about.

Wait a second, you just said Jim Crow prevented AA from participating in the "White economy" and were only able to build there communities to a small degree...your words not mine. Yet you insist it was actually government welfare that did more damage? Again you would rather believe the racist stereotype that black people are just lazy instead of black wealth and opportunity being stolen from our community from racist white America of the time.

If you truly believe this line of thinking then you just think that AA of the time just ain't shit and are lazy. Game out this line of thinking and how do you come away with any other conclusion?

 

[-lowcountrydawg]

You're 100% right I don't see it as a net gain when larger corporations come in and exploiting these communities and would rather see a programs that invest in minorty local companies and entrepreneurs that way the money stays in the community. This isn't new and what black Americans have wanted for hundreds of years.

So you would rather have government money doing the same thing? Can you give me an example of a government funded project that turned out nice? Efficient or wasteful? Without corruption or kickbacks? What kind of local companies and in what fashion? Can you give examples? Generally the same cities where OZ's exist are typically led politically by African American Mayors and Council Members. Why is it not happening now if government is the answer?

if the outcome is good, why the hell does it matter that other counterparties made money as well?

This is a bigger discussion that speaks to capitalism versus other political and economic systems.

 

[anon_q2raz786xy94b]

Trump never had the NYT fiction writers, like Charles Blow,

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

The black and minorty communities have been hearing about these initiatives for decades and they only enrich corporations instead of the community seeing the majority of the benefit.

Yes great track record by pushing federal police immunity? 😅

Trump is a con-man and the black community sees that. You guus have to resort to third rate rappers and video h&$@ for your black out reach. Saying black people will back him now because he's a felon...GTFOH. And repeating the line about black jobs is disrespectful to black Americans I don't know what to tell you.

Lol if you like but you can't deny that Trump worked to reform sentence guidelines that disproportionately affects the AA community. But hey, go ahead and vote Dem. It's worked out SO well over the last half century. And I'm sure Kamala's record prosecuting AAs for minor drug offenses is golden compared to Trump.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

Wait a second, you just said Jim Crow prevented AA from participating in the "White economy" and were only able to build there communities to a small degree...your words not mine. Yet you insist it was actually government welfare that did more damage? Again you would rather believe the racist stereotype that black people are just lazy instead of black wealth and opportunity being stolen from our community from racist white America of the time.

If you truly believe this line of thinking then you just think that AA of the time just ain't shit and are lazy. Game out this line of thinking and how do you come away with any other conclusion?

Good lord man I'll try to make it more easily understandable but your missing the point. Jim Crow was an abomination. Full stop. However, during that time AAs had nuclear families that were in line with white families. SO, even though the deck was stacked against them socially and financially, the family structure in the AA community thrived. (And Pubs weren't exactly the architects of Jim Crow)

Fast forward to today. The AA nuclear family has been decimated in some areas and every study known to man shows children from 2 parent households have a better chance of being successful. The way our current welfare system is structured we literally:

1. Encourage out of wedlock births with the promise of security and a check.
2. Once a person becomes a recipient, we literally discourage them from advancement by financially punishing those seeking advancement and we discourage them from marrying due to the loss of benes if the husband makes money.

Do a little research on how benes are cutoff when a person trying to work out of welfare reaches income levels far less than the amount they receive in benes. Ask some welfare recipients if they be better off living with a boyfriend or marrying that boyfriend. If you can't open your eyes and see how sinister the current system is (intentionally or unintentionally) and insist on blaming Jim Crow on Pubs, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[shonuff253]

Good lord man I'll try to make it more easily understandable but your missing the point. Jim Crow was an abomination. Full stop. However, during that time AAs had nuclear families that were in line with white families. SO, even though the deck was stacked against them socially and financially, the family structure in the AA community thrived. (And Pubs weren't exactly the architects of Jim Crow)

Fast forward to today. The AA nuclear family has been decimated in some areas and every study known to man shows children from 2 parent households have a better chance of being successful. The way our current welfare system is structured we literally:

1. Encourage out of wedlock births with the promise of security and a check.
2. Once a person becomes a recipient, we literally discourage them from advancement by financially punishing those seeking advancement and we discourage them from marrying due to the loss of benes if the husband makes money.

Do a little research on how benes are cutoff when a person trying to work out of welfare reaches income levels far less than the amount they receive in benes. Ask some welfare recipients if they be better off living with a boyfriend or marrying that boyfriend. If you can't open your eyes and see how sinister the current system is (intentionally or unintentionally) and insist on blaming Jim Crow on Pubs, I don't know what to tell you.

This is weird so you accept that Jim Crow was real but not that it had negative impacts on the black family?

Again you'd rather believe the stereotype that black people are lazy rather than work. You would rather believethat black Americans prefer a govenrenment handout than building a family.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

This is weird so you accept that Jim Crow was real but not that it had negative impacts on the black family?

No, I literally said it was an abomination and it had negative financial and social effects but at the same time, for whatever reason, the black family unit was largely intact and strong. I think you would agree that having strong nuclear families and boys being raised in homes with strong fathers has proven to give boys a better chance at success and we should encourage strong nuclear families today.

So let's all accept Jim Crow left an indelible stain on the stars and stripes.

Now, the discussion in this thread is about what Pubs/Trump have done to help AA families. Sadly, Pubs can't go back and undo Jim Crow so I'm focusing on what has been attempted and what can be done TODAY. If you want to focus on helping disadvantaged families today (not limited to AAs) you have to focus on the problems of today and solutions that can be attempted today.

So, when I say welfare draws in women with have a baby, get a check, have no baby get no check. (My bipolar daughter was literally told this by a social worker when at 18 she decided she couldn't live by my house rules) The rebut, yeah but Jim Crow, means little.

When I say the current welfare system traps recipients in a catch 22 where it severely punishes upward mobility and asset accumulation, yeah but Jim Crow isn't addressing the issue at all.

When I say the current welfare system discourages marriage because spousal income counts towards cutting benes, yeah, but Jim Crow isn't part of that argument.

If you can simply look at problems without making partisanship part of the equation, I think you would agree safe, competent schools with the ability to protect the sanctity of the learning environment would be good.

I think you would agree tax breaks and even subsidies to bring businesses and jobs into distressed areas is a good thing.

I think you would agree tying a government check to adult education and or community service could work for able mind and able body citizens.

Encouraging self sufficiency by eschewing cutting assistance if a 30 yr old single mom with 2 kids takes a promotion as a lead person that pays her 50 extra bucks a week but knocks out her food stamps, medical assistance and subsidized housing makes sense.

I could go on all day about policies that are either by design or by accident roadblocks placed in the way of the disadvantaged (of all demographic groups) and would praise members of any party that advanced policies designed to help improve lives. I have no problem at all calling Trump's call for LE immunity a poor idea. I also have no issue crediting Trump with mandatory sentencing guidelines and trying to give kids trapped in schools that aren't safe and can't produce kids that perform at grade level a way out. Generally speaking, good ideas and bad ideas are not determined by the party of the people involved.

 

[EufaulaDawg]

I have no idea what his camp was thinking by agreeing to this interview. His campaign must really be frightened of Harris. This is wild.

View embedded media

Nobody cares about this after 48 hours.

 

[Dillenger1914]

No, I literally said it was an abomination and it had negative financial and social effects but at the same time, for whatever reason, the black family unit was largely intact and strong. I think you would agree that having strong nuclear families and boys being raised in homes with strong fathers has proven to give boys a better chance at success and we should encourage strong nuclear families today.

So let's all accept Jim Crow left an indelible stain on the stars and stripes.

Now, the discussion in this thread is about what Pubs/Trump have done to help AA families. Sadly, Pubs can't go back and undo Jim Crow so I'm focusing on what has been attempted and what can be done TODAY. If you want to focus on helping disadvantaged families today (not limited to AAs) you have to focus on the problems of today and solutions that can be attempted today.

So, when I say welfare draws in women with have a baby, get a check, have no baby get no check. (My bipolar daughter was literally told this by a social worker when at 18 she decided she couldn't live by my house rules) The rebut, yeah but Jim Crow, means little.

When I say the current welfare system traps recipients in a catch 22 where it severely punishes upward mobility and asset accumulation, yeah but Jim Crow isn't addressing the issue at all.

When I say the current welfare system discourages marriage because spousal income counts towards cutting benes, yeah, but Jim Crow isn't part of that argument.

If you can simply look at problems without making partisanship part of the equation, I think you would agree safe, competent schools with the ability to protect the sanctity of the learning environment would be good.

I think you would agree tax breaks and even subsidies to bring businesses and jobs into distressed areas is a good thing.

I think you would agree tying a government check to adult education and or community service could work for able mind and able body citizens.

Encouraging self sufficiency by eschewing cutting assistance if a 30 yr old single mom with 2 kids takes a promotion as a lead person that pays her 50 extra bucks a week but knocks out her food stamps, medical assistance and subsidized housing makes sense.

I could go on all day about policies that are either by design or by accident roadblocks placed in the way of the disadvantaged (of all demographic groups) and would praise members of any party that advanced policies designed to help improve lives. I have no problem at all calling Trump's call for LE immunity a poor idea. I also have no issue crediting Trump with mandatory sentencing guidelines and trying to give kids trapped in schools that aren't safe and can't produce kids that perform at grade level a way out. Generally speaking, good ideas and bad ideas are not determined by the party of the people involved.

Enjoyed reading your response and comments. I can certainly agree that the welfare system and our schools needs improving. Excellent points.

I would challenge you on the "what went wrong" with the AA family structure (at least to my untrained eyes).

I don't think you can ask the AA family question about where are the black men?, without addressing the disproportionate criminal sentences that black received (cocaine vs. crack) in the 80's and early 90's. The impact of Crack cocaine within the black homes.

Most of the Republican camp, lost their collective minds when President Trump was convicted. They said the judge, the jury, the evidence, etc. all was tainted and a sham and that President Trump would never get a fair trial....... Well, this is EXACTLY how most black men felt while interacting with this system for the past 200 years. You feel hopeless when you think the cards are stacked against you and your taken from your home for simple reasons.

Lastly- I will say that for every leader or group that tried recently to help the black man and AA families, they were Killed or dismantled. Martin Luther King (Killed). Malcom X (Killed). The Black Panther Party (Dismantled). Fred Hampton (Killed)...

 

[shonuff253]

Nobody cares about this after 48 hours.

Check the news and black people do.

 

[Dirty Hairy Dawg]

Enjoyed reading your response and comments. I can certainly agree that the welfare system and our schools needs improving. Excellent points.

I would challenge you on the "what went wrong" with the AA family structure (at least to my untrained eyes).

I don't think you can ask the AA family question about where are the black men?, without addressing the disproportionate criminal sentences that black received (cocaine vs. crack) in the 80's and early 90's. The impact of Crack cocaine within the black homes.

Most of the Republican camp, lost their collective minds when President Trump was convicted. They said the judge, the jury, the evidence, etc. all was tainted and a sham and that President Trump would never get a fair trial....... Well, this is EXACTLY how most black men felt while interacting with this system for the past 200 years. You feel hopeless when you think the cards are stacked against you and your taken from your home for simple reasons.

Lastly- I will say that for every leader or group that tried recently to help the black man and AA families, they were Killed or dismantled. Martin Luther King (Killed). Malcom X (Killed). The Black Panther Party (Dismantled). Fred Hamilton (Killed)...

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I think you also have a great point about the war on drugs and the effect it had on black communities. There is no way that damage can be denied. I also don't think you can explain this complex issue by pointing to just one factor. I'm also not trying to minimize or excuse the government codified racism of the past. Where I'm coming from is for whatever reason we are where we are and I don't think the failed recipes of the last half century should go unchallenged.

How we got here is complex and should be acknowledged but my concern is where do we go from here. All ideas should be on the table and attacking a proposed solution, even a poor one, due to the side of the aisle that pushed it forward should be condemned. So even though you may hate Trump, you shouldn't dismiss an initiative like education reform simply because you don't want him to get a win. Imo, both sides are guilty and the art of playing politics is hurting those in need of solutions the most.

 

[HOBODAWG]

I have no idea what his camp was thinking by agreeing to this interview. His campaign must really be frightened of Harris. This is wild.

View embedded media

So you're saying all Black People must think the same, or the way you think they should. I have seen plenty of articles and videos of the Black Community absolutely disgusted by Kamala and her terrible attempts at pandering to them. The Rally in Atlanta showed who she thinks "Black" people are to her. Vote on the parts the matter not all the fluff that the Dems bring up.. Its all you have, there is nothing in Policy that is good. She got 1% of the vote the last time she tried to run, no Primary. Completely bypassed the so-called Democracy Dems are so scared of Trump taking away.

 

[shonuff253]

So you're saying all Black People must think the same, or the way you think they should. I have seen plenty of articles and videos of the Black Community absolutely disgusted by Kamala and her terrible attempts at pandering to them. The Rally in Atlanta showed who she thinks "Black" people are to her. Vote on the parts the matter not all the fluff that the Dems bring up.. Its all you have, there is nothing in Policy that is good. She got 1% of the vote the last time she tried to run, no Primary. Completely bypassed the so-called Democracy Dems are so scared of Trump taking away.

Sooooooo you're say black people shouldn't feel offended by Trump questioning a black woman's "blackness". Again as I said before...I thought republicans don't see color? Oh no you see it when it benefits you.

 

[ToddBburn]

Sooooooo you're say black people shouldn't feel offended by Trump questioning a black woman's "blackness". Again as I said before...I thought republicans don't see color? Oh no you see it when it benefits you.

He didn’t say that at all in that post. You are very biased/jaded or judging ignoring what he said.

 

[shonuff253]

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I think you also have a great point about the war on drugs and the effect it had on black communities. There is no way that damage can be denied. I also don't think you can explain this complex issue by pointing to just one factor. I'm also not trying to minimize or excuse the government codified racism of the past. Where I'm coming from is for whatever reason we are where we are and I don't think the failed recipes of the last half century should go unchallenged.

How we got here is complex and should be acknowledged but my concern is where do we go from here. All ideas should be on the table and attacking a proposed solution, even a poor one, due to the side of the aisle that pushed it forward should be condemned. So even though you may hate Trump, you shouldn't dismiss an initiative like education reform simply because you don't want him to get a win. Imo, both sides are guilty and the art of playing politics is hurting those in need of solutions the most.

I will say thank you to @Dillenger1914 for your post as you more eloquently stated the point I'd hoped DHD to see...we can discuss how to reduced the number of AA on public assistance but you can't skip past asking the question "how did we get here" and expect to come up with a solution that works. There was a perfect tsunami of sysmatic racism, war on drugs, over policing and the decimation of American manufacturing industry that put the community where it is today.

 

[ToddBburn]

I will say thank you to @Dillenger1914 for your post as you more eloquently stated the point I'd hoped DHD to see...we can discuss how to reduced the number of AA on public assistance but you can't skip past asking the question "how did we get here" and expect to come up with a solution that works. There was a perfect tsunami of sysmatic racism, war on drugs, over policing and the decimation of American manufacturing industry that put the community where it is today.

There other items as well.

 

[Zonadog]

And school vouchers just don't work and there's decades worth of data to now show it's a scam.

"The last decade of achievement studies have shown negative voucher impacts, with more mixed or inconclusive results on attainment.

Data from traditional voucher programs has indicated that the larger the program, the worse the results tend to be."

Curious about where this comes from. Certainly conflicts with my experience in Phoenix, where we have some of the worst public school districts in the country. There's a robust alternative school program, with public, private, charter and magnet schools available. Performance records show that charter schools routinely outperform public schools serving the same population. Further, they are able to offer programs that public schools cannot accommodate.

Certainly, what I see cannot be the full range of experience, so I'm curious to see where and how the results are objectively worse than public schools. I know that these programs are not carried out the same way in all cases. But there are greatly successful programs out there, even in some of the toughest environments.

 

[ToddBburn]

Curious about where this comes from. Certainly conflicts with my experience in Phoenix, where we have some of the worst public school districts in the country. There's a robust alternative school program, with public, private, charter and magnet schools available. Performance records show that charter schools routinely outperform public schools serving the same population. Further, they are able to offer programs that public schools cannot accommodate.

Certainly, what I see cannot be the full range of experience, so I'm curious to see where and how the results are objectively worse than public schools. I know that these programs are not carried out the same way in all cases. But there are greatly successful programs out there, even in some of the toughest environments.

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I am sure it was from the NEA and Randi Weingarten.

 

[Zonadog]

I am sure it was from the NEA and Randi Weingarten.

Fun Fact: Randi Weingarten is not affiliated with NEA. She's president of the American Federation of Teachers (AFT), which has roughly half the membership of NEA.

 

[ugaboz]

Lol if you like but you can't deny that Trump worked to reform sentence guidelines that disproportionately affects the AA community. But hey, go ahead and vote Dem. It's worked out SO well over the last half century. And I'm sure Kamala's record prosecuting AAs for minor drug offenses is golden compared to Trump.

and that what he will do lol
so sad

 

[atlanta cock#]

So asking about factual things from his past (things he has said and done) and asking him why black people should vote for him because of those things is now "rude"? I applaud her for holding his feet to the fire.

This is one of the few times I have caught an entire trump interview unfiltered or out of context. It was cringe worthy and weird. Like "did he really just say that?!?!"

I listened to it live and knew that he was going to his greatest hit about a reporter being rude as soon as she opened the interview. So predictable. He dodged the question and blamed other things that aren't relevant (the equipment, late to the stage, etc.). Attacked the person rather than answering the question. Typical trump. Ultimate deflection artist.

They could've rolled out the red carpet and brought in a military band to celebrate his arrival....and he still would've acted like a petulant child. Because that who he is. And it's tiresome.

I've grown weary of the faux virtue signaling and anti-Semitism from the Left. Trump will be 47.

 

[jlstone412]

I've grown weary of the faux virtue signaling and anti-Semitism from the Left. Trump will be 47.

View embedded media

Is she the one who staged the "impromptu" run in with him at chick FIL a in downtown Atlanta? Seems appropriate that she aligns herself with a lying liar who lies.

 

[shonuff253]

Is she the one who staged the "impromptu" run in with him at chick FIL a in downtown Atlanta? Seems appropriate that she aligns herself with a lying liar who lies.

That would be her and she's already been called out by the black community. These grifters are selling MAGA the myth that they can bring in black voters. True black conservatives were run out of the Republican Party a long time ago.

 

[atlanta cock#]

Is she the one who staged the "impromptu" run in with him at chick FIL a in downtown Atlanta? Seems appropriate that she aligns herself with a lying liar who lies.

I do not know who she is, but the Ds have exposed themselves for the totalitarian loving anti-Semites that they’ve become.

 

[ugaboz]

Sooooooo you're say black people shouldn't feel offended by Trump questioning a black woman's "blackness". Again as I said before...I thought republicans don't see color? Oh no you see it when it benefits you.

do you feel offended by things Democrats do to make black people look dumb?
naw that just falls on deaf ears.

 

[jlstone412]

I do not know who she is, but the Ds have exposed themselves for the totalitarian loving anti-Semites that they’ve become.

You should probably look into who she is...