OT: George Lucas or George R.R. Martin?

[Dabfa2269]

Obviously two of the best fantasy creators of all time who ironically share the sameOne being more of a film maker and one more of a writer who has transformed into a film maker as of late. Regardless, they are two of the greatest world builders of all time and they’ve each in their own, very differing way, created arguably two of the best fantasy worlds in both cinematic or novelistic history. I watched the new “House of the Dragon” episode earlier today and then tonight I finally got a chance to watch some of the new Star Wars series “The Acolyte” and after watching both back to back it had me pondering the following question: of these two great fiction creators which George’s work would you be more proud to call your own?

PS: and please let’s not get into the Disney debate and how they bamboozled Lucas and changed a lot of his wishes and desires in the Star Wars Multiverse because we all know that Lucas is the man, myth, & legend behind all of Star Wars.

 

[NWGA_DAWG]

 

[Dabfa2269]

Dude don’t tell me that you’ve never read a George Martin book or watched the Star Wars movies. If not your the one that is wack not me.

 

[rectomo]

Obviously two of the best fantasy creators of all time who ironically share the sameOne being more of a film maker and one more of a writer who has transformed into a film maker as of late. Regardless, they are two of the greatest world builders of all time and they’ve each in their own, very differing way, created arguably two of the best fantasy worlds in both cinematic or novelistic history. I watched the new “House of the Dragon” episode earlier today and then tonight I finally got a chance to watch some of the new Star Wars series “The Acolyte” and after watching both back to back it had me pondering the following question: of these two great fiction creators which George’s work would you be more proud to call your own?

PS: and please let’s not get into the Disney debate and how they bamboozled Lucas and changed a lot of his wishes and desires in the Star Wars Multiverse because we all know that Lucas is the man, myth, & legend behind all of Star Wars.

Lucas was always black and white. Martin lives in grey. It's his bread and butter. Generally, I have always considered the SW universe to be creative but poorly written. It has gotten better with recent releases like Andor, which is much more mature than anything I have previously seen. Actually it has gotten better once Lucas sold it. With all that in mind, I would be more proud to call Martin's work my own because I think it is better written, but if I had the money Lucas has made I would not give a damn that people like me thought my creation was simplistic. And, of course, if I had been Lucas I would have been much more open about how much I stole from Kurosawa (especially Seven Samurai).

 

[eskimoUGA]

Lucas was always black and white. Martin lives in grey. It's his bread and butter. Generally, I have always considered the SW universe to be creative but poorly written. It has gotten better with recent releases like Andor, which is much more mature than anything I have previously seen. Actually it has gotten better once Lucas sold it. With all that in mind, I would be more proud to call Martin's work my own because I think it is better written, but if I had the money Lucas has made I would not give a damn that people like me thought my creation was simplistic. And, of course, if I had been Lucas I would have been much more open about how much I stole from Kurosawa (especially Seven Samurai).

Totally agree. The Star Wars action and story-line are solid but Lucas' dialog is pretty trite for the most part. Andor and Mandalorian are both winners but Jon Favreau is to be credited with those. Martin is gritty and well-written. Also agree about Kurasawa...but then, he stole from Shakespeare.

 

[Jodeco]

Am I on StingTalk?

 

[FTDawg]

 

[rectomo]

Totally agree. The Star Wars action and story-line are solid but Lucas' dialog is pretty trite for the most part. Andor and Mandalorian are both winners but Jon Favreau is to be credited with those. Martin is gritty and well-written. Also agree about Kurasawa...but then, he stole from Shakespeare.

...who stole from the Greek playwrights. Who probably stole from some Summerian guy lost in time

 

[rectomo]

Am I on StingTalk?

You must want to be because you entered this thread.

 

[Smacdawg]

...who stole from the Greek playwrights. Who probably stole from some Summerian guy lost in time

There’s no such thing as new ideas…just different presenters.

 

[kckd]

Dude don’t tell me that you’ve never read a George Martin book or watched the Star Wars movies. If not your the one that is wack not me.

There's a lot of wacks that haven't read a Martin book. If I knew he was gonna finish GoT, I might start. Kind of sucks that he made his money with HBO and now doesn't feel like doing it.

 

[kckd]

That's probably the best of all the Triumph skits.

 

[scottmac1972]

Lucas was always black and white. Martin lives in grey. It's his bread and butter. Generally, I have always considered the SW universe to be creative but poorly written. It has gotten better with recent releases like Andor, which is much more mature than anything I have previously seen. Actually it has gotten better once Lucas sold it. With all that in mind, I would be more proud to call Martin's work my own because I think it is better written, but if I had the money Lucas has made I would not give a damn that people like me thought my creation was simplistic. And, of course, if I had been Lucas I would have been much more open about how much I stole from Kurosawa (especially Seven Samurai).

He's been pretty open about that being a huge influence on his work. Not sure what else you are wanting the man to say. But I can remember him bringing up Kurosawa in interviews all the way back in the early 80s.

 

[scottmac1972]

Love that skit!!

 

[Pine_Tree1]

Did George Lucas actually finish his work? RR Martin didnt

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Did George Lucas actually finish his work? RR Martin didnt

One writer won’t finish his work and the other wouldn’t stop despite our protests

 

[Boom MFer Dawg]

Am I on StingTalk?

The vent has culture too

 

[Boom MFer Dawg]

There’s no such thing as new ideas…just different presenters.

I bet your fun at parties!

 

[ChubbDawg]

Lucas because GRRM will never even finish his magnum opus

 

[gtanduga]

IMO the LOTR was written 40 years? ago.....and then was put on film.....SW was just based on an idea from Lucas books were written to coincide with the movies.....now SW has some good themes and ideas but the follow through isnt great...I like the newer ones better because they are less goofy then the first couple....

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

IMO the LOTR was written 40 years? ago.....and then was put on film.....SW was just based on an idea from Lucas books were written to coincide with the movies.....now SW has some good themes and ideas but the follow through isnt great...I like the newer ones better because they are less goofy than the first couple....

You’ve got the wrong R. R. author

 

[scottmac1972]

IMO the LOTR was written 40 years? ago.....and then was put on film.....SW was just based on an idea from Lucas books were written to coincide with the movies.....now SW has some good themes and ideas but the follow through isnt great...I like the newer ones better because they are less goofy then the first couple....

The newer what, movies? I don't know if you watched the sequel trilogy sir.....but it doesnt get much goofier then what was in that trilogy.

 

[BaileyDawg79]

The newer what, movies? I don't know if you watched the sequel trilogy sir.....but it doesnt get much goofier then what was in that trilogy.

I think he is talking about the new series on Disney+ like Andor, etc.

The first 3 Episodes of the movies were goofy as shit. I thought they did better with Episodes 7 - 9 and Rogue One is a legit good movie. Probably my favorite of the Skywalker cannon outside the original 3 episodes.

 

[Rawdaddy]

You’ve got the wrong R. R. author

But speaking of, gimme J.R.R. Tolkien and Gene Roddenberry over Lucas and Martin.

 

[scottmac1972]

I think he is talking about the new series on Disney+ like Andor, etc.

The first 3 Episodes of the movies were goofy as shit. I thought they did better with Episodes 7 - 9 and Rogue One is a legit good movie. Probably my favorite of the Skywalker cannon outside the original 3 episodes.

Rogue One is awesome. The best of any of the new stuff.

Episode 7 set up a nice story.....then 8 ignored 7, and wasn't very good.....and then 9 went completely off the rails.

To this day I can't believe the powers that be at Disney green lit a trilogy that was not fully planned out with a general road map of what would happen. They literally thought they could just make it up as they went along.

I know people love and hate the MCU.....but no denying Disney successfully executed it. I thought they'd do the same thing with SW. But from day one, it doesn't seem they ever really had a plan for SW. How Kathleen Kennedy still has a job is mind-blowing to me.

 

[rectomo]

He's been pretty open about that being a huge influence on his work. Not sure what else you are wanting the man to say. But I can remember him bringing up Kurosawa in interviews all the way back in the early 80s.

He has, but there is influence and there is copying. There are scenes in the original that are almost word for word out of Seven Samurai.

Admittedly, he is much better than James Cameron, who said that he "read and loved" Ursula Le Guin, and then proceeded to make the Avatar movies and give her no credit when it is obvious he got his idea from The Word for World is Forest, her 1973 Hugo award winning novella.

 

[ChubbDawg]

Disney Star Wars has been mid outside of Andor and season 1 Mando

 

[rectomo]

Rogue One is awesome. The best of any of the new stuff.

Episode 7 set up a nice story.....then 8 ignored 7, and wasn't very good.....and then 9 went completely off the rails.

To this day I can't believe the powers that be at Disney green lit a trilogy that was not fully planned out with a general road map of what would happen. They literally thought they could just make it up as they went along.

I know people love and hate the MCU.....but no denying Disney successfully executed it. I thought they'd do the same thing with SW. But from day one, it doesn't seem they ever really had a plan for SW. How Kathleen Kennedy still has a job is mind-blowing to me.

Rogue One was refreshingly good. Andor, I think, is far and away the best of the new material. Of course it is - it is the Rogue One prequel.

 

[gtanduga]

The newer what, movies? I don't know if you watched the sequel trilogy sir.....but it doesnt get much goofier then what was in that trilogy.

ok

 

[rectomo]

But speaking of, gimme J.R.R. Tolkien and Gene Roddenberry over Lucas and Martin.

I'm down with that.

 

[Smacdawg]

I bet your fun at parties!

What? I’m making a joking observation, and you’re leading with that? Wonder which one of us really isn’t fun at parties?

Serious much?

 

[rectomo]

On a related note, one of my favorite Robot Chicken skits:

 

[donalsonville_dawg]

Rogue One is awesome. The best of any of the new stuff.

Rogue One isn’t just the best of the new stuff; it may be the best they’ve made period. It’s an excellent stand alone movie even for someone who knows nothing of Star Wars. It’s a shame that they didn’t take the new trilogy as seriously

 

[HuntinDawg]

The newer what, movies? I don't know if you watched the sequel trilogy sir.....but it doesnt get much goofier then what was in that trilogy.

Princess Leia doing the backstroke in space was the low point for me.

 

[EvoDoesGood]

I'll admit a bias in that I grew up with Star Wars and am an ardent fan of the works while I could never seem to get into Game of Thrones.

I feel like George Lucas was far better at structured storytelling which, in turn, made for more complete works. What he lacked in intricacy he made up for methodology, the Original Trilogy are a master class in the usage of The Hero's Journey as a storytelling structure.

George RR Martin seems like he tells very interesting stories with cool ideas and moments that don't seem to actually be building to an ending. All the politics and complexity feel like they exist for their own sake. It's interesting from episode to episode but I think it's telling that George RR Martin hasn't finished the story and doesn't seem to quite know how to do so.

I'll take Lucas' questionable dialogue writing over Martin's maze of intrigue that doesn't have an exit yet.

 

[scottmac1972]

He has, but there is influence and there is copying. There are scenes in the original that are almost word for word out of Seven Samurai.

Admittedly, he is much better than James Cameron, who said that he "read and loved" Ursula Le Guin, and then proceeded to make the Avatar movies and give her no credit when it is obvious he got his idea from The Word for World is Forest, her 1973 Hugo award winning novella.

To this day I call Avatar....Dances with Wolves with Blue People

 

[Terry02]

I'd go with Lucas but only for creating the universe with the original trilogy.

Martin's writing is superb though.

 

[rectomo]

I'll admit a bias in that I grew up with Star Wars and am an ardent fan of the works while I could never seem to get into Game of Thrones.

I feel like George Lucas was far better at structured storytelling which, in turn, made for more complete works. What he lacked in intricacy he made up for methodology, the Original Trilogy are a master class in the usage of The Hero's Journey as a storytelling structure.

George RR Martin seems like he tells very interesting stories with cool ideas and moments that don't seem to actually be building to an ending. All the politics and complexity feel like they exist for their own sake. It's interesting from episode to episode but I think it's telling that George RR Martin hasn't finished the story and doesn't seem to quite know how to do so.

I'll take Lucas' questionable dialogue writing over Martin's maze of intrigue that doesn't have an exit yet.

Interesting take. Have you read the books?

I've been reading Martin a very long time (since the 1970s). He has always been a busy fellow. It's not like he has been sitting around eating bonbons with his feet propped up. Along with being deeply involved with various TV projects (Dunk and Egg is coming to TV, too) he has edited many other works of fiction and written many other stories and novellas since he began Song of Ice and Fire in 1996.

I am confident he has it all plotted out. I'm just not positive he will be the one to finish the writing. George is 76 and overweight. There are real Robert Jordan vibes.

 

[DieselDawg44]

Star Wars has become lame, GRRM won’t finish his books series because he doesn’t know how to finish them and GOT ended terribly imo, House of the Dragon has been damn good so far, but all in all the GOAT of the fantasy genre is Tolkien.

 

[DonutDawg]

Did not read the OP or thread but you couldn't pay me to watch any more new Star Wars shows/movies. They're just awful. The old stuff wasn't that great & only held up because of nostalgia but the new stuff is f-ing garbage.
Nobody wants to watch shows or movies while being beat over the head by some dumbass agenda.
From what I've read, the acolyte is the shittiest thing ever made, just as I thought it would be.

Just my 2 cents.