Who do you want (locked in a room) negotiating with Xi Jinping, Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Hamas leaders?

[PotimusWillie]

Donald Trump or Joe Biden?

Then ask you why the political establishment fears Trump.

If you were in a legal dispute that could have dire and devastating financial consequences for your family, who would you want in a one on one negotiation with the other party?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a ride to the store, who do you want driving the car through Atlanta?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you asked an unrehearsed question about how corporate tax laws apply to state sovereignty, then prohibited a teleprompter or electronic communication of any kind for the recipient of the question, who could discuss it logically and coherently?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed to choose a contestant for the game show Jeopardy, who would you choose?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a job and wanted to work for a privately held company, who would have a stronger portfolio?

Trick question

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Bonus question

Who has personally employed the most people in his lifetime, taking on personal liability, and created the most financial stability for families?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Based on the criteria of those questions alone, who is better choice to be President of the United States?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

And who would be our best option in international negotiations again?

 

[SLC_Dawg]

Jack Bauer

 

[PotimusWillie]

Jack Bauer

Me too.

Trump’s the closest thing we have.

 

[jlstone412]

Donald Trump or Joe Biden?

Then ask you why the political establishment fears Trump.

If you were in a legal dispute that could have dire and devastating financial consequences for your family, who would you want in a one on one negotiation with the other party?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a ride to the store, who do you want driving the car through Atlanta?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you asked an unrehearsed question about how corporate tax laws apply to state sovereignty, then prohibited a teleprompter or electronic communication of any kind for the recipient of the question, who could discuss it logically and coherently?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed to choose a contestant for the game show Jeopardy, who would you choose?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a job and wanted to work for a privately held company, who would have a stronger portfolio?

Trick question

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Bonus question

Who has personally employed the most people in his lifetime, taking on personal liability, and created the most financial stability for families?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Based on the criteria of those questions alone, who is better choice to be President of the United States?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

And who would be our best option in international negotiations again?

Meh...I will bite because I'm bored...

1: Biden; I have $400m reasons to support my decision. Unless trump has pics of the other party with Epstein....then I reserve the right to change my answer here.
2: push; people of cognitive decline shouldn't be allowed to drive and they both have SS motorcade to move efficiently even around ATL
3: push; I dont think either could discuss it "logically AND coherently"; but I guess Biden here given his political career and the fact he probably helped write all those policies
4: trump....would be funny as hell watching him squirm and try to bid with money he doesn't have
5: Biden....trump is probably inflating the value of the portfolio; see question #1.
6: irrelevant to presidency but Trump by default... that's like comparing apples to spaceships as their 80 years on this earth have been vastly different
7: Biden based on the answers above
8: Biden (by default); trump would close America to the world and therefore not be involved in international negotiations; he'd probably be off eating cheeseburgers or golfing or insurrectioning somewhere

I don't think the establishment fears trump...I think they understand he is unfit to be president and shouldn't be in charge of the executive branch ever again. Just some are scared to say it...

 

[dawgs1997]

Brewster

Choosing between my senile gropey great Grampa and my narcissistic angry gropey great Grampa makes me wanna never visit my relatives.

 

[PotimusWillie]

Meh...I will bite because I'm bored...

1: Biden; I have $400m reasons to support my decision. Unless trump has pics of the other party with Epstein....then I reserve the right to change my answer here.
2: push; people of cognitive decline shouldn't be allowed to drive and they both have SS motorcade to move efficiently even around ATL
3: push; I dont think either could discuss it "logically AND coherently"; but I guess Biden here given his political career and the fact he probably helped write all those policies
4: trump....would be funny as hell watching him squirm and try to bid with money he doesn't have
5: Biden....trump is probably inflating the value of the portfolio; see question #1.
6: irrelevant to presidency but Trump by default... that's like comparing apples to spaceships as their 80 years on this earth have been vastly different
7: Biden based on the answers above
8: Biden (by default); trump would close America to the world and therefore not be involved in international negotiations; he'd probably be off eating cheeseburgers or golfing or insurrectioning somewhere

I don't think the establishment fears trump...I think they understand he is unfit to be president and shouldn't be in charge of the executive branch ever again. Just some are scared to say it...

OK

 

[DawgWCK]

Donald Trump or Joe Biden?

Then ask you why the political establishment fears Trump.

If you were in a legal dispute that could have dire and devastating financial consequences for your family, who would you want in a one on one negotiation with the other party?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a ride to the store, who do you want driving the car through Atlanta?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you asked an unrehearsed question about how corporate tax laws apply to state sovereignty, then prohibited a teleprompter or electronic communication of any kind for the recipient of the question, who could discuss it logically and coherently?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed to choose a contestant for the game show Jeopardy, who would you choose?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a job and wanted to work for a privately held company, who would have a stronger portfolio?

Trick question

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Bonus question

Who has personally employed the most people in his lifetime, taking on personal liability, and created the most financial stability for families?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Based on the criteria of those questions alone, who is better choice to be President of the United States?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

And who would be our best option in international negotiations again?

Fair questions but pose these to someone in PA, Michigan or Wisconsin. Election will be determined there.

Race in Georgia is over. Trump wins Georgia by 150K or so, perhaps more if he stays on message. Suspect he wins Nevada and Az too.

For Trump to win any of those states ( PA, Michigan or Wisconsin) he needs to stay on message (doubtful) and let Biden stumble a few times and make a lot of gaffes (highly likely) . Minority heterosexual men are not voting for Biden this time in near same numbers they did in 2020 so Trump has a 49.5% chance at this point, race will most likely go down to the wire.

 

[tdawgmd]

Fair questions but pose these to someone in PA, Michigan or Wisconsin. Election will be determined there.

Race in Georgia is over. Trump wins Georgia by 150K or so, perhaps more if he stays on message. Suspect he wins Nevada and Az too.

For Trump to win any of those states ( PA, Michigan or Wisconsin) he needs to stay on message (doubtful) and let Biden stumble a few times and make a lot of gaffes (highly likely) . Minority heterosexual men are not voting for Biden this time in near same numbers they did in 2020 so Trump has a 49.5% chance at this point, race will most likely go down to the wire.

Biden will be fighting way UPHILL in Michigan.

 

[banjodawg]

Meh...I will bite because I'm bored...

1: Biden; I have $400m reasons to support my decision. Unless trump has pics of the other party with Epstein....then I reserve the right to change my answer here.
2: push; people of cognitive decline shouldn't be allowed to drive and they both have SS motorcade to move efficiently even around ATL
3: push; I dont think either could discuss it "logically AND coherently"; but I guess Biden here given his political career and the fact he probably helped write all those policies
4: trump....would be funny as hell watching him squirm and try to bid with money he doesn't have
5: Biden....trump is probably inflating the value of the portfolio; see question #1.
6: irrelevant to presidency but Trump by default... that's like comparing apples to spaceships as their 80 years on this earth have been vastly different
7: Biden based on the answers above
8: Biden (by default); trump would close America to the world and therefore not be involved in international negotiations; he'd probably be off eating cheeseburgers or golfing or insurrectioning somewhere

I don't think the establishment fears trump...I think they understand he is unfit to be president and shouldn't be in charge of the executive branch ever again. Just some are scared to say it...

Liberal propaganda... Biden cannot find the door.. Without a prompter, he cannot put two sentences together.

All the policies he has enacted, all the decisions, come from Obama in the background... Biden is a senile old man who is being protected by the left wing press ...

Worse, he does not care about American Citizens... Has yet to contact Laken's family after one of his illegals from Venezuela murdered her in cold blood... took him over a year to visit the site of the Palestine train wreck, After three years, he goes to the border, but they choose for him to go to Brownsville, Texas which has a very low illegal crossing... Meanwhile Trump goes to Eagle Pass....

Biden and his son are criminals, in bed with China and Russia... Obama has always been in love with Iran......

Biden started the destruction or America the day he walked into the White House. Trump does speak his mind and does sometimes go too far with his criticisms, but the country was much more solid under him... energy independence, border control, no wars, our enemies respected us... the list goes on and on.

Our "leadership" and our country are being laughed at all across the world... Putting Biden in a room with any of these: Xi Jinping, Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Hamas leaders... Ever hear of a battle of wits with an unarmed man... This is a prime example.... Doubtful he could even remember who they were....

Put simply, our country cannot survive four more years of Senile Joe and his puppet master Obama.

God Bless America

 

[oldmandawg]

Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump
Trump

 

[JackRussellDawg]

I’d prefer John Wayne but I’ll settle for The Donald.

 

[PotimusWillie]

Brewster

Choosing between my senile gropey great Grampa and my narcissistic angry gropey great Grampa makes me wanna never visit my relatives.

Your explanation makes no sense.

Your point is to diffuse the Biden inadequacies.

Point by point, our country was in a better place economically, racially, security and internationally when Trump was president. No soldiers being killed, no wars, cheap fuel, no inflation, military respect, demanding other countries participate with us fairly, no wholesale buyouts to buy the vote, and borders controlled.

Give me your recap of the last 3 years under Biden.

It should be fun.

 

[Eastmandawg]

Fair questions but pose these to someone in PA, Michigan or Wisconsin. Election will be determined there.

Race in Georgia is over. Trump wins Georgia by 150K or so, perhaps more if he stays on message. Suspect he wins Nevada and Az too.

For Trump to win any of those states ( PA, Michigan or Wisconsin) he needs to stay on message (doubtful) and let Biden stumble a few times and make a lot of gaffes (highly likely) . Minority heterosexual men are not voting for Biden this time in near same numbers they did in 2020 so Trump has a 49.5% chance at this point, race will most likely go down to the wire.

Vegas Insider:

2024 U.S. PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION TOP 5 CONTENDERS​

• Donald Trump 5/6
• Joe Biden 15/8
• Gavin Newsom 14/1
• Michelle Obama 18/1
• Robert Kennedy Jr. 20/1

https://www.vegasinsider.com/odds/us-presidential-election/

 

[LRA Dawg]

Donald Trump or Joe Biden?

Then ask you why the political establishment fears Trump.

If you were in a legal dispute that could have dire and devastating financial consequences for your family, who would you want in a one on one negotiation with the other party?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a ride to the store, who do you want driving the car through Atlanta?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you asked an unrehearsed question about how corporate tax laws apply to state sovereignty, then prohibited a teleprompter or electronic communication of any kind for the recipient of the question, who could discuss it logically and coherently?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed to choose a contestant for the game show Jeopardy, who would you choose?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a job and wanted to work for a privately held company, who would have a stronger portfolio?

Trick question

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Bonus question

Who has personally employed the most people in his lifetime, taking on personal liability, and created the most financial stability for families?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Based on the criteria of those questions alone, who is better choice to be President of the United States?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

And who would be our best option in international negotiations again?

Any question that asks me to choose Biden or Trump makes me want to vomit.

65% of the country does not want that matchup and that is exactly what we have.

 

[Eastmandawg]

Any question that asks me to choose Biden or Trump makes me want to vomit.

65% of the country does not want that matchup and that is exactly what we have.

65%????……nobody axed me.

 

[MRDAWG]

Your explanation makes no sense.

Your point is to diffuse the Biden inadequacies.

Point by point, our country was in a better place economically, racially, security and internationally when Trump was president. No soldiers being killed, no wars, cheap fuel, no inflation, military respect, demanding other countries participate with us fairly, no wholesale buyouts to buy the vote, and borders controlled.

Give me your recap of the last 3 years under Biden.

It should be fun.

You conveniently forgot 2020 and 2021 Covid stuff.

 

[MRDAWG]

Donald Trump or Joe Biden?

Then ask you why the political establishment fears Trump.

If you were in a legal dispute that could have dire and devastating financial consequences for your family, who would you want in a one on one negotiation with the other party?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a ride to the store, who do you want driving the car through Atlanta?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you asked an unrehearsed question about how corporate tax laws apply to state sovereignty, then prohibited a teleprompter or electronic communication of any kind for the recipient of the question, who could discuss it logically and coherently?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed to choose a contestant for the game show Jeopardy, who would you choose?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a job and wanted to work for a privately held company, who would have a stronger portfolio?

Trick question

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Bonus question

Who has personally employed the most people in his lifetime, taking on personal liability, and created the most financial stability for families?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Based on the criteria of those questions alone, who is better choice to be President of the United States?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

And who would be our best option in international negotiations again?

MR. Krebs you have got a good one here.............
Financial consequences..... Trump bankrupted four Casinos! He cheated banks and insurance companies and tax authorities resulting a 344 million judgement against him. Biden here.

Ride through Atlanta...Stupid question about two old men. At least Joe drives his Corvette and the electric Ford pickup. Have you any evidence that Trump has actually driven through traffic?

Corporate tax laws......Trump must not know much since his CFO Alan Weisseberg handled his accounting. Mr Alan has recently spent time in jail for tax fraud. He is going back to jail soon for perjury for tax fraud.
Biden for sure here.

Jeopardy ...two senile men. flip a coin. Neither has lived in the real world in 50 years.

Need a job...........Since Trump owes a half a BILLION dollars for the fraud case and E Jean Carroll I'd look elsewhere as another bankruptcy is coming. Also Trump can't borrow or operate a business in NY for 3 years!

Personally employed...Trump since Biden has been in government.
However, personally is the key word here. TODAY FOX Business reported that Biden has created more jobs than ANY president in HISTORY! No you won't see that on Fox News.

Biden
International negotiations...........since Trump writes love letters to the Korean dictator and says Putin is more trustworthy than our 15 intelligent agencies...
Who would sell out the USA? Who would abandon NATO?

 

[PotimusWillie]

Any question that asks me to choose Biden or Trump makes me want to vomit.

65% of the country does not want that matchup and that is exactly what we have.

Why does it make you vomit? Trumps four years were four of the strongest for our country bin many, many years.

If the concern is over fighting gender fluidity, cross dressing pre K readers, open borders, buying the vote of entitled college students, buying favor from other countries using taxpayers money, and idiotic DEI policies, I can see how you are concerned.

 

[nice marmot]

is this a trick question? because Biden would never allow himself to get locked in a room with any of these psychos.

Trump already has.

 

[DawgWCK]

Biden will be fighting way UPHILL in Michigan.

As long as Michigan has a democrat governor with higher aspirations and the city of Detroit, Trump winning Michigan will be very difficult. Vote counts via mail in voting in minority inter city Detroit will be off charts like 2020. IMO

 

[nice marmot]

As long as Michigan has a democrat governor with higher aspirations and the city of Detroit, Trump winning Michigan will be very difficult. Vote counts via mail in voting in minority inter city Detroit will be off charts like 2020. IMO

Michigan barely has a GOP party org at this point thanks to infighting - and both remnants that exist are broke.

 

[MRDAWG]

Why does it make you vomit? Trumps four years were four of the strongest for our country bin many, many years.

If the concern is over fighting gender fluidity, cross dressing pre K readers, open borders, buying the vote of entitled college students, buying favor from other countries using taxpayers money, and idiotic DEI policies, I can see how you are concerned.

"Trumps four years were four of the strongest". You are forgetting all the covid unemployment etc.

 

[MRDAWG]

MR. Krebs you have got a good one here.............
Financial consequences..... Trump bankrupted four Casinos! He cheated banks and insurance companies and tax authorities resulting a 344 million judgement against him. Biden here.

Ride through Atlanta...Stupid question about two old men. At least Joe drives his Corvette and the electric Ford pickup. Have you any evidence that Trump has actually driven through traffic?

Corporate tax laws......Trump must not know much since his CFO Alan Weisseberg handled his accounting. Mr Alan has recently spent time in jail for tax fraud. He is going back to jail soon for perjury for tax fraud.
Biden for sure here.

Jeopardy ...two senile men. flip a coin. Neither has lived in the real world in 50 years.

Need a job...........Since Trump owes a half a BILLION dollars for the fraud case and E Jean Carroll I'd look elsewhere as another bankruptcy is coming. Also Trump can't borrow or operate a business in NY for 3 years!

Personally employed...Trump since Biden has been in government.
However, personally is the key word here. TODAY FOX Business reported that Biden has created more jobs than ANY president in HISTORY! No you won't see that on Fox News.

Biden
International negotiations...........since Trump writes love letters to the Korean dictator and says Putin is more trustworthy than our 15 intelligent agencies...
Who would sell out the USA? Who would abandon NATO?

Oh check this out from Tuesday night.....https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218749879

 

[dawgs1997]

Your explanation makes no sense.

Your point is to diffuse the Biden inadequacies.

Point by point, our country was in a better place economically, racially, security and internationally when Trump was president. No soldiers being killed, no wars, cheap fuel, no inflation, military respect, demanding other countries participate with us fairly, no wholesale buyouts to buy the vote, and borders controlled.

Give me your recap of the last 3 years under Biden.

It should be fun.

Okay. I'll try to slow this down a bit. In the movie Brewster's Millions, his slogan was to vote "None of the Above". It was complicated! A bunch of rules, he had to spend $30M to make $300M, etc. Separately from that context, the word "NONE" means "not any". Meaning that in answering the OP's question to pick the best possible candidate, I said..."NONE,"...aka "not any" with a pretty obvious nod to the movie wishing that I could vote that way. Obviously meaning that I think both candidates are probably two of the worst that the respective parties could have put forth. So, your request that I defend the last 3 years of Biden (to borrow a great phrase from a fellow DawgChat-er) makes no sense. Sad that you will miss out on the fun of reading that.

 

[LRA Dawg]

Why does it make you vomit? Trumps four years were four of the strongest for our country bin many, many years.

If the concern is over fighting gender fluidity, cross dressing pre K readers, open borders, buying the vote of entitled college students, buying favor from other countries using taxpayers money, and idiotic DEI policies, I can see how you are concerned.

You spoke of how I feel about Biden well.

For my negative opinion of Trump:
- Just about every person who has worked for him has been vilified, trashed, and he sics his cult on them. This includes every person in the military who warns he is a loose cannon and dangerous.
- He has zero respect for people in the military.
- His cheated election narrative is indeed a lie. The person he hired to build a report on election fraud was fired for not giving Trump the answer he wanted.
- He poses in front of a church holding a bible after he has cheated on his wife multiple times, yet the evangelicals still love him over other republicans with morals.
- He is too old.
- All politicians lie, but he is the GOAT when it comes to that trait.
- He cheats at golf in every round.

I will give him credit for having the strongest position on the border, crime, and global economy decisions.

I would have voted for any of the top 5 republican candidates for President, but he will not get my vote ever. I respect differences in opinion, but you asked for mine and there it is.

 

[SLC_Dawg]

Build back better . . . What have we built? Was just a $3 trillion robbery?

 

[MRDAWG]

Build back better . . . What have we built? Was just a $3 trillion robbery?

Bridges are being built. A big one from Cincinnati and Lexington.

 

[mikul1]

All your points and fact can be verified by any CNN and MSNBC report. That along must make you feel that your point of view is strong. Most criminals being let out of jail believes just like you. The 20 million that has come over our border believes just like you. This shows how your in good strong company. Keep up this good I love America logic. That is until your political communist take over. We are being piece milled to China.

 

[Double Deuce Dawg]

Kamala Harris.....those guys are so radical & uptight because they've never had a proper blow job IMHO. 😂

 

[mikul1]

Donald Trump or Joe Biden?

Then ask you why the political establishment fears Trump.

If you were in a legal dispute that could have dire and devastating financial consequences for your family, who would you want in a one on one negotiation with the other party?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a ride to the store, who do you want driving the car through Atlanta?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you asked an unrehearsed question about how corporate tax laws apply to state sovereignty, then prohibited a teleprompter or electronic communication of any kind for the recipient of the question, who could discuss it logically and coherently?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed to choose a contestant for the game show Jeopardy, who would you choose?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

If you needed a job and wanted to work for a privately held company, who would have a stronger portfolio?

Trick question

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Bonus question

Who has personally employed the most people in his lifetime, taking on personal liability, and created the most financial stability for families?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

Based on the criteria of those questions alone, who is better choice to be President of the United States?

Donald Trump or Joe Biden

And who would be our best option in international negotiations again?

Where is your question and explanation about their “ feelings”.

 

[PotimusWillie]

Where is your question and explanation about their “ feelings”.

Explain. I don’t understand your question.

 

[PotimusWillie]

You spoke of how I feel about Biden well.

For my negative opinion of Trump:
- Just about every person who has worked for him has been vilified, trashed, and he sics his cult on them. This includes every person in the military who warns he is a loose cannon and dangerous.
- He has zero respect for people in the military.
- His cheated election narrative is indeed a lie. The person he hired to build a report on election fraud was fired for not giving Trump the answer he wanted.
- He poses in front of a church holding a bible after he has cheated on his wife multiple times, yet the evangelicals still love him over other republicans with morals.
- He is too old.
- All politicians lie, but he is the GOAT when it comes to that trait.
- He cheats at golf in every round.

I will give him credit for having the strongest position on the border, crime, and global economy decisions.

I would have voted for any of the top 5 republican candidates for President, but he will not get my vote ever. I respect differences in opinion, but you asked for mine and there it is.

Sounds good.

 

[Section220Dawg]

Meh...I will bite because I'm bored...

1: Biden; I have $400m reasons to support my decision. Unless trump has pics of the other party with Epstein....then I reserve the right to change my answer here.
2: push; people of cognitive decline shouldn't be allowed to drive and they both have SS motorcade to move efficiently even around ATL
3: push; I dont think either could discuss it "logically AND coherently"; but I guess Biden here given his political career and the fact he probably helped write all those policies
4: trump....would be funny as hell watching him squirm and try to bid with money he doesn't have
5: Biden....trump is probably inflating the value of the portfolio; see question #1.
6: irrelevant to presidency but Trump by default... that's like comparing apples to spaceships as their 80 years on this earth have been vastly different
7: Biden based on the answers above
8: Biden (by default); trump would close America to the world and therefore not be involved in international negotiations; he'd probably be off eating cheeseburgers or golfing or insurrectioning somewhere

I don't think the establishment fears trump...I think they understand he is unfit to be president and shouldn't be in charge of the executive branch ever again. Just some are scared to say it...

LOL……..😂. Yeah the guy who has to ask his handlers if he’s allowed to take questions from the 12 hand-picked folks at one of his orchestrated public appearances. You’re a bigger joke than Joe and I’m not scared to say it.

 

[mikul1]

You spoke of how I feel about Biden well.

For my negative opinion of Trump:
- Just about every person who has worked for him has been vilified, trashed, and he sics his cult on them. This includes every person in the military who warns he is a loose cannon and dangerous.
- He has zero respect for people in the military.
- His cheated election narrative is indeed a lie. The person he hired to build a report on election fraud was fired for not giving Trump the answer he wanted.
- He poses in front of a church holding a bible after he has cheated on his wife multiple times, yet the evangelicals still love him over other republicans with morals.
- He is too old.
- All politicians lie, but he is the GOAT when it comes to that trait.
- He cheats at golf in every round.

I will give him credit for having the strongest position on the border, crime, and global economy decisions.

I would have voted for any of the top 5 republican candidates for President, but he will not get my vote ever. I respect differences in opinion, but you asked for mine and there it is.

You make a lot sense but not to normal thinking people. Keep a copy of what you posted and go back and look at it in 10 years and you will see how we got in this mess. YOU

 

[atlanta cock#]

Me too.

Trump’s the closest thing we have.

You have no faith in Buttigieg or Granholm?